Bungie told Naughty Dog not to go all in on a live service game

[voke]

The thing with ND is ND & Sony should’ve made them create a side multiplayer team & bolster development by hiring or getting a support studio maybe partner w Bandai Namco to use one of there studios that isn’t doing anything to support TLOU online.

Poor leadership & even worse management

Ironic you mention bad management, because when analyzing your paragraph, you sound completely clueless on how management works.

You cannot snap your fingers and have BN working on TLOU. They expanded ND, realized they could not handle the project, and cancelled it. That’s just how it goes sometimes, and I guarantee your “what if” situations would be laughable if brought up in the actual situation. Just straight up devoid from reality.

 

[Evilnemesis8]

4 years working on it and suddenly they had this revelation? Leaked footage from Naughty Dog's office

I still think they're not telling the whole truth

You act like this isn't something happen to a bunch of projects. It's not like Naughty Dogs are the king of GaaS.
Game was probably great to play in whatever modes they had, but Bungie's (main?) criticism was on how they were going to retain their audience long term(and by proxy get that sweet monthly battlepass or whatever their business model was going to be).

Gotta hit those KPI goals.

 

[Danja]

People have imagined some great ND multiplayer game in their heads. But in reality it most likely wouldn't be that ideal

They've never made a bad multiplayer game.

 

[Danja]

Well good on them as that was always my biggest concern was how would they manage post launch support since that was an area they always sucked in.

I still think it sucks we never got a Factions 2.0 lobby based game, as we know they had a build up and running prior to the TLOU 2 release.

 

[Yurinka]

So where are the ND games?

• In the last 4 years TLOU2, TLOUP1, TLOU2R, Uncharted Thieves Collection and PC ports were released.
• TLOU Online got cancelled.
• There's an unannounced new SP game started after TLOU2, maybe around early 2021.
• There's another unannounced new SP game started in early 2023.
• Who knows, maybe even started a 3rd one (TLOU3) after they cancelled TLOU Online
• Maybe there's also an Uncharted 1 remake or a PS5+PC Nathan Drake collection in the works.

Following Sony's current standards it's too early to show the game ND has under development. Specially after they cancelled TLOU Online they won't want to announce their next game too early.

Nowadays AAA games take around 5-9 years to be made, so these two SP game pretty likely would be released one around 2026-2030 and the other one 2028-2032. Pretty likely they will be announced several months before their release, maye around a year or a year and a half before their planned release.

They've never made a bad multiplayer game.

I see their games as single player focused games, which sometimes have a (very good) multiplayer mode as secondary extra.

Different than to make a multiplayer only game, specially nowadays when MP games normally are game as services instead of products.

genuine question here, was the multiplayer from the first game good?

Yes. I'm not a multiplayer guy and found this one very good, same goes with Uncharted ones or Crash Team Racing.

 

[Shmunter]

We should have gotten a robust Factions mode, that’s it. This “forever game” GaaS crap is infuriating

 

[Yurinka]

We should have gotten a robust Factions mode, that’s it. This “forever game” GaaS crap is infuriating

That was the original idea. But they got too ambitious, to the point that they missed the milestone and had to cancel it or to delay TLOU2 even more. So they decided to turn it into a standalone MP game. But nowadays MP game normally also equals GaaS, so they went that route.

 

[quest4441]

We should have gotten a robust Factions mode, that’s it. This “forever game” GaaS crap is infuriating

Dont you worry we will get the The Last of Us I ReRemake Joel Must Die Edition with new unneeded Neil Druckmann commentary, a single studio has given the PS5 a reputation of being remake station, absolutely shambolic

 

[Kokoloko]

I mean this isn't new news, it's what we expected from Jason's report that said that within their review Bungie highlighted the player retention issue(with the current content that was available).

The project's scope was simply too big, especially at the time where PS was already looking around at costs.
Is there another timeline where SIE/ND feels like they can grow even bigger to something like 500-600 employees to manage both the MP game and work on another big triple A game at the same time concurrently without issues?
Sure, but that's not the one we live in.

I personally would of prefered if Sony expanded there team to be able to do it. They didnt even try unlike the others who succeeded. The London Studio, FireSprite, Bend helping ND make Factions 2. Id prefer those studios helped ND instead of whatever they are/were doing.

Anyway, its just what I would of liked, obviously its never gonna happen. But money cant have been the only issue.?
Sony has been making bucks, and all the ones who succeeed like apex legends, took the risk and worked out for them. I would trust ND’s game making abilities to make something fantastic.

 

[Kokoloko]

We should have gotten a robust Factions mode, that’s it. This “forever game” GaaS crap is infuriating

Did you play RDR 1 online? It would of just been loads of TLOU story gameplay in a online world. Probably same gameplayand story telling but just lots of it.
I really enjoyed TLOU, I would love to see more of that universe and what stories could be in it

 

[Bryank75]

 

[Shmunter]

Did you play RDR 1 online? It would of just been loads of TLOU story gameplay in a online world. Probably same gameplayand story telling but just lots of it.
I really enjoyed TLOU, I would love to see more of that universe and what stories could be in it

Have not. But sustained story telling to the ND high bar in an open world I’m not sure is achievable in an ongoing fashion. It does sound enticing, don’t get me wrong - but the idea and execution often do not end in the same place.

 

[Danja]

.


I see their games as single player focused games, which sometimes have a (very good) multiplayer mode as secondary extra.

Different than to make a multiplayer only game, specially nowadays when MP games normally are game as services instead of products.

The Multiplayer for their games always offered more replay value than the actual campaigns

 

[Etifilio]

And people cried about this. Imagine crying about not getting shot in the foot.

nah, people cried because we were waiting 5 years for a multiplayer mode and because of ND's ambitions the project was cancelled altogether, we never asked for a gigantic GAAs title, all we wanted was a multiplayer mode for TLOU2

 

[Etifilio]

even the employees who work at the company admit Bungie was overpaid, 3.6B dollars in the trash can... while we're losing Final Fantasy exclusivity that actually benefits PLAYSTATION, specially in Japan, but watch people like @mibu no ookami twist this with his anecdotal words to suck Sony executives d*cks

 

[Petekilla]

So basically, Sony got played.

 

[Entropi]

We dodged a bullet with ND not going gaas im telling yall. Leave it do the devs that specialize in it.

For as much shit as ND received for delaying and eventually canceling TLoGaaS, it was the right decision. Bungie saved ND from so much suffering and pain. This is now more evident with the release of Concord.

 

[Entropi]

So basically, Sony got played.

MS would have snatched them and turned them into a Halo assembly line again.

I’d say Bungie made the right call, as Playstation can turn them into a great studio again if they decide to stop doing GaaS.

 

[Evilnemesis8]

I personally would of prefered if Sony expanded there team to be able to do it. They didnt even try unlike the others who succeeded. The London Studio, FireSprite, Bend helping ND make Factions 2. Id prefer those studios helped ND instead of whatever they are/were doing.

The project was likely cancelled internally back in Fall 2023 after a few months of debating what to do.
We got the official communication on Dec 14th.

At that point in time SIE was most likely already planning their layoffs/studio closure that were enacted back in February 2024. These things take months.

They were never going to send those other studios as support staff for the game.

Anyway, its just what I would of liked, obviously its never gonna happen. But money cant have been the only issue.?
Sony has been making bucks, and all the ones who succeeed like apex legends, took the risk and worked out for them. I would trust ND’s game making abilities to make something fantastic.,

I dunno how to tell you this, but you're not making the big bucks if you're closing studios and are laying off people even in your prestigious and best selling studios like Guerrilla, ND, Insomniac.

Besides, if its Naughty Dog who pushed to cancel the project, something I strongly suspect, I don't think there was much to do on SIE's end.

 

[Kokoloko]

They were never going to send those other studios as support staff for the game.

Sony does this from time to time.

Bend Studio and Naughty Dog Worked On An Unannounced Project

It has been revealed on a LinkedIn profile that Bend Studio and Naughty Dog teamed up on an unannounced project - but what could it have been?

insider-gaming.com

Demon's Souls Remake Dev Bluepoint Games Assisted on God of War Ragnarok

All hands on deck

www.pushsquare.com

I dunno how to tell you this, but you're not making the big bucks if you're closing studios and are laying off people even in your prestigious and best selling studios like Guerrilla, ND, Insomniac.

Besides, if its Naughty Dog who pushed to cancel the project, something I strongly suspect, I don't think there was much to do on SIE's end.

Sony made more profit in PS4 gaming sales than they did the entire PS1/PS2/PS3 days. PS5 has already made more profits PS4 did in its entire generation.
Sony has made well over 19billion in profits from 2013 till now. Not revenue. Profit.

The games from ND (Uncharted / TLOU) Santa Monica (Gow/Ragnarok) Insomniac(Spiderman1-2) Sucker Punch(GOT) and Bend (Days Gone) have all sold over 10-20+million and selling higher than ever before. Covering well over there development costs. No loss here either.

They arent hurting for money. Especially not anymore than before PS4.
They’ve closed down studios like London, Pixelopus and others because they werent performing and producing as expected.
And they want to tighten up their operation.

Who knows if this new reconstructing strategy works?
Insomniac is one of the most consistent studios with the most output. But Sony made some cuts because they think it is needed for better organisation. Who knows if that is a good move yet. Insomniac was doing pretty well. It might mess up there flow.

GOW 2018 sold well over 20+. Spiderman sold well over 20+ million. Horizon etc. None of these games needed to go to PC to help with developement costs. They were well in the clear and examples of Playstation’s best selling games ever. The reason is extra short term profit.

Sony might be sorting out the structure issues of the past regime, or it just might want to tidy up as much as they can so they can bigger numbers to show off. Either way, Sony isnt suffering when it comes to there big games making enough money.

What ever the previous leaders tried to do, Sony is fixing its mistakes. Either way there experts before were wrong for the new leaders to have to change i now.
And maybe they will be wrong again with there current restructure? This could be just greedy CEO’s cutting corner as far as we know. Or it might be the greatest reconstuction of playstation studios ever lol. But there gaming department is not at a lose.

If they arent making big bucks, they should pack there bags and call it a day already. But I believe its the same as other places, CEO’s and board-members trying to cut back, make as much money as they possibly can with what they have.
It could be great organisation and tactics to improve the company, or it could be all about tryign to make as much money as possible and we dont know how quality will be effected.