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Discussion DS2 and GTA6 prove that development talent, not console power, is the limiting factor

James Sawyer Ford

James Sawyer Ford

Active member
Sircaw's Army
So many games run like hot garbage and everyone rushes to claim that such and such console is “too weak”

No, developers just aren’t good. Either brainrot has infected the industry or it’s just too many tasks and optimization gets set to the wayside

GTA6 uses RTGI and RT reflections with massive density of fidelity in an open world game.

DS2 looks like UE5’s nanite demo but in an open world at 60 fps.

Console power isn’t the issue, it never was this generation
 
Consoles this generation have always been great and still are. PC Ports and cross-gen releases have held back performance and fidelity. Rockstar and Kojima (two of the most talented developers) are building their games from the ground up on current generation consoles without having to worry about PS4, Xbox One and PC.
 
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In fairness, GTAVI and DS2 both have the benefit of very unique development structures. In GTAVI's case, they have access to budget and development time which would not be granted to any other studio, and DS2 is made by an auteur who commands a directorial authority over his projects which most other directors cannot.

My point being, both have the benefits of having the resources and time to focus extensively on the performance and optimization of their games past the point of reaching a "playable" state. Under these conditions they can certainly push the hardware limitations of a console more efficiently than some other developers.
 
DarkLordOtaku said:
In fairness, GTAVI and DS2 both have the benefit of very unique development structures. In GTAVI's case, they have access to budget and development time which would not be granted to any other studio, and DS2 is made by an auteur who commands a directorial authority over his projects which most other directors cannot.

My point being, both have the benefits of having the resources and time to focus extensively on the performance and optimization of their games past the point of reaching a "playable" state. Under these conditions they can certainly push the hardware limitations of a console more efficiently than some other developers.
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Well, we can look at FromSoft as a direct comparison to Kojima, and there's a game that also has issues with performance and technicalities.

It's a talent and priorities problem. And the studio hasn't cultivated an atmosphere that demands technical excellence.

So yes, efficient use of resources and talent does contribute to the problem overall.
 
Nintendo Switch 2, PlayStation 5, PlayStation 5 Pro, Xbox Series S and Xbox Series X are all more than capable gaming consoles. It's up to the publishers to give the money, resources and most importantly of all, time to their development studios in order for them to make sure that the game they're developing looks, runs and plays great while also accomplishing what they want the game to be.
 
James Sawyer Ford said:
Well, we can look at FromSoft as a direct comparison to Kojima, and there's a game that also has issues with performance and technicalities.

It's a talent and priorities problem. And the studio hasn't cultivated an atmosphere that demands technical excellence.

So yes, efficient use of resources and talent does contribute to the problem overall.
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In some capacity, we would see an improvement in technical performance, regardless of what hardware one chooses to play on, if it were to significantly impact sales; however, it's increasingly seeming like many gamers care little about technical performance, with success hinging far more upon the launch hype, and social draw of a title.
 
Let's all just say the truth, UE5 is a disaster from a performance standpoint and too many projects are using it that don't need it and too many people got swept up in the hype and rushed into an engine change without properly scoping out the games
 
DarkLordOtaku said:
In fairness, GTAVI and DS2 both have the benefit of very unique development structures. In GTAVI's case, they have access to budget and development time which would not be granted to any other studio, and DS2 is made by an auteur who commands a directorial authority over his projects which most other directors cannot.

My point being, both have the benefits of having the resources and time to focus extensively on the performance and optimization of their games past the point of reaching a "playable" state. Under these conditions they can certainly push the hardware limitations of a console more efficiently than some other developers.
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10000%

People here are quick to fire away accusations of developers being lazy or untalented not taking into consideration that they often have deadlines to meet by executives who just want to get something out as soon as possible. Rockstar and Kojima studios aren't under that kind of pressure. Sony's studios are also given the time to get things right, which is why their efforts are usually above and beyond most games on their system.
 
James Sawyer Ford said:
Well, we can look at FromSoft as a direct comparison to Kojima, and there's a game that also has issues with performance and technicalities.

It's a talent and priorities problem. And the studio hasn't cultivated an atmosphere that demands technical excellence.

So yes, efficient use of resources and talent does contribute to the problem overall.
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Pretty easy to say this stuff anonymously. You don't really know what's going on at each studio
 
That's why exclusives are pro-consumer. Focussing on a single hardware configuration leads to better products.
 
DirectorMo said:
Pretty easy to say this stuff anonymously. You don't really know what's going on at each studio
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You don't need to know the inner workings of a studio to know what they are deficient in. The evidence is clear by looking at their games.

Arguably Kojima is under much more pressure than FromSoft, a much smaller studio that was just a startup not too long ago. It's not like Elden Ring was some quick development. And it's not like they haven't had ample amounts of time to get their engine right over the decades.
 
anonpuffs said:
Let's all just say the truth, UE5 is a disaster from a performance standpoint and too many projects are using it that don't need it and too many people got swept up in the hype and rushed into an engine change without properly scoping out the games
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It seems like UE5 can help allow devs to take short cuts to try and make up for incompetencies. Unfortunately, UE5 is not a good solution for that. The language of working in the tool may make it easier for devs, but it should be much better at allowing them to achieve stable performance.
 
James Sawyer Ford said:
You don't need to know the inner workings of a studio to know what they are deficient in. The evidence is clear by looking at their games.

Arguably Kojima is under much more pressure than FromSoft, a much smaller studio that was just a startup not too long ago. It's not like Elden Ring was some quick development. And it's not like they haven't had ample amounts of time to get their engine right over the decades.
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You're wrong on many levels here.

Kojima Productions, made Death Stranding and Death Stranding 2, both games are being published by Sony. In a previous post I mentioned that Sony typically lets their teams cook.

FromSoft has their games published by other companies such as Bandai Namco, Activision. The management structures there are different.

This is known and verifiable.

You're a keyboard warrior accusing people you don't know of being lazy or untalented without fully understanding what they have to deal with.
 
DirectorMo said:
You're wrong on many levels here.

Kojima Productions, made Death Stranding and Death Stranding 2, both games are being published by Sony. In a previous post I mentioned that Sony typically lets their teams cook.

FromSoft has their games published by other companies such as Bandai Namco, Activision. The management structures there are different.

This is known and verifiable.

You're a keyboard warrior accusing people you don't know of being lazy or untalented without fully understanding what they have to deal with.
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Bloodborne was a game published by Sony, it was riddled with performance issues.

FromSoft 'cooks' for their games. Elden Ring took 5 years to make. They have been notoriously horrible technically.

You're getting offended at someone pointing out basic facts. Relax warrior. I am not saying FromSoft games suck. I am simply pointing out that they are terrible technically, that even under Sony's publishing arm they have been terrible, and that it seems like that's not a priority at the studio and hasn't been since their inception, otherwise it would get fixed. They are not some small studio anymore like they used to be. They are massive with hundreds of people. There's simply no excuse after how successful they have become.
 
James Sawyer Ford said:
Bloodborne was a game published by Sony, it was riddled with performance issues.

FromSoft 'cooks' for their games. Elden Ring took 5 years to make. They have been notoriously horrible technically.

You're getting offended at someone pointing out basic facts. Relax warrior. I am not saying FromSoft games suck. I am simply pointing out that they are terrible technically, that even under Sony's publishing arm they have been terrible, and that it seems like that's not a priority at the studio and hasn't been since their inception, otherwise it would get fixed. They are not some small studio anymore like they used to be. They are massive with hundreds of people. There's simply no excuse after how successful they have become.
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FWIW saying something like "performance is not a priority" at a studio is very different than saying "this studio lacks talent" or "developers just aren't good".
 
DirectorMo said:
FWIW saying something like "performance is not a priority" at a studio is very different than saying "this studio lacks talent" or "developers just aren't good".
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Clearly, talent manifests itself in different ways. FromSoft is talented when it comes to game design. When it comes to game engines, they are some of the worst in the industry for how good their games sell.
 
Sure, I've seen no tangible gfx uplift from ps4 gen apart from the superficial and/or wasteful techniques that are detrimental to performance and IQ without elevating enough in turn. A keen developer must know what technology to deploy for best overall results within the confines of possibility.
 
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