Flop! Metaphor: ReFantazio debuts at number 37 on Xbox (Atlus 35th Digital Anniversary Edition at number 555).

Do you think it was worth it for Atlus to alienate their main customers for a Xbox deal?


  • Total voters
    43

Vertigo

Did you show the Darkness what Light can do?
26 Jun 2022
5,535
5,004
Xbox didn’t have a notable sales split for larger tentpole releases like RE8 or 4. There’s no way metaphor sells on Xbox.

Xbox consumers have already been conditioned to ONLY consume gamepass fast food.

The problem is that gamepass keeps failing at accomplishing any of its goals, especially when it comes to selling hardware. Software isn’t sold and software isn’t played unless it’s gamepass, gaas or yearly sports rehashes.

All Xbox software sales are dead. This is why they’ve changed directions to go full third party and support PlayStation. Third parties can abandon support Xbox altogether and lose nothing at this point. It’s a waste of resources…. And thus why third parties like Altus will take ms handouts for nonsense marketing deals for instagram ads.
 
24 Jun 2022
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6,950
The game had its best position on steam at 3 which is not saying much as even ragnarok and ff16 were at least ranked 1 for a couple of days and we saw how that turned out, hasn't breached top 10 on the us ps store, has not hit top 5 in any of the major western ps stores and seemingly has not even breached top 20 on xbox.

The game may deserve its accolades and seems to be a great jrpg from impressions (not my cup of tea) but there is a crowd that wants to make this a bigger success than it is to use as ammo to dunk on final fantasy which I find ridiculous.

I also dont think a million in sales is what Sega/atlus wanted after putting the veterans of p-studio to work for 7 years on this new IP.

Well as @voke said places like ResetERA definitely have been doing the bolded, and it's probably tied to a combination of:

1: The strategic partnership between Microsoft and SEGA/Atlus from early 2022​
2: Viewing Xbox as the spiritual successor to Dreamcast​
3: Viewing Microsoft as some "underdog" (LOL) in the same way SEGA was back as a platform holder​
4: Conflating modern "underdog" Microsoft/Xbox with old SEGA​
5: Blaming Sony for SEGA's demise as a console maker​
6: Blaming Sony for Xbox's death spiral as a traditional console platform​
7: Using Xbox as a proxy vessel/stand-in for SEGA and wanting Microsoft to "exact revenge" against PlayStation to "bring justice" for SEGA​
8: Grown manchildren Nintendo fanboys/fangirls who use Xbox as a proxy against PlayStation blaming Sony for dethroning Nintendo in the home console space, and wanting revenge since Nintendo no longer competes in that space​

All extremely stupid and idiotic reasons, based on sentiments either no longer true (OG Xbox was the only Xbox that was a spiritual successor to SEGA hardware) or were never true (SEGA killed SEGA as a console maker, not Sony).

I don't think that has nothing to do with Resetera at all but the games you guys are comparing.

This game was very sucessful sales wise for Square Enix and shipped + digital reached 1 million with 3 weeks instead one like Metaphor.

Octo.png


At the same time Persona 5 break the niche bubble and reached sales only old FFs had beween JRPGs while FFs can't do it for near a decade.

Just gonna stop you right here because you're doing the thing again; P5 had MULTIPLE re-releases across MULTIPLE platforms (PS3, PS4, PS5, Switch, Xbox Series, Steam) over a period of 8 years in order to reach 10 million units.

For the oddest of reasons, you keep ignoring this and talk about it as if the game accomplished it on one platform, with one version, then using that warped POV to denigrate modern FF sales performance for XVI (a game that only just released last year on a single system that only started resolving stock issues earlier that year, and just recently got a Steam port) and Rebirth (a game that only released THIS YEAR and on only one system!).

You can have a hateboner for XVI and Rebirth (tho seems to be XVI in your case) all you want but please understand there's a difference between that and Persona 5 when it comes to how long they've been out, how many versions they have and how many platforms they're on.

Metaphor is a new IP spin off of before long niche JRPG franchise (Persona 5 was the first spin off in the franchise to reach mainstream level)... you could not expect to compare it with a new entry from a old successful mainstream franchise like FF.

Metaphor is like Starfield in that it's a "new" IP but it shares a lot of DNA with very well-established IP, so it gets by in ways off the cache those IP built. With Starfield, that's obviously Fallout and TES. With Metaphor, it's Persona & SMT.

Metaphor is like the Square Enix's Octopath when released in 2018.
And at launch it is doing better than Octopath (maybe because it didn't release on PS4 where the biggest JRPG fanbase where at time).

You act like SE positioned Octopath as a pillar in anywhere the same capacity SEGA/Atlus have with Metaphor. They didn't.

Also it's been six years between Octopath and Metaphor. The addressable market for JRPGs has grown in those six years, so Metaphor has an advantage there that Octopath did not.

Plus as you already said, Octopath didn't launch on PS4 which, in 2018, was the biggest base for JRPGs.

Personally, third party publishers SHOULD market their games with Xbox instead of PlayStation because their fan base/sales on PlayStation is already set to be what it's going to be while on Xbox, it would make much more logical sense for them to advertise there in order to build a fan base on that platform so it can grow in time.

THERE IS NO FANBASE TO BUILD THERE!!! JFC people keep repeating this, you sound like that ex-Square Enix guy who said FF marketing with Xbox would boost PlayStation sales. There is just no logical thought into such claims; if they sound dumb off rip it's because they usually are.

There is no magically secret, massive install base of JRPG fans on Xbox. JRPG people by and large already know of Xbox in that regard since the mid '2000s or from the 2010s, so they know what that platform is like when it comes to JRPGs. Microsoft can't build an audience for the genre there when they have no exclusive JRPGs, no exclusives period (everything is Day 1 on PC), and no value proposition for choosing an Xbox over a PlayStation with the current business model Series S & X are using. And no, Game Pass doesn't cut it either, particularly in this case since Metaphor is not in Game Pass!

Also I find the notion odd that the JRPG audience can't grow on PS5. The audience for any genre can theoretically grow if enough compelling content is made and marketed towards them. Guess what Atlus haven't been doing with Metaphor in the West? Marketing it to PS5 owners. They haven't marketed towards Steam players either, but Steam is a more open platform where WOM plus streamer culture favoring PC gaming basically acts as advertising in its own right. PS5 doesn't have those benefits (though IMO, SIE should open up data metrics for CCUs etc. to be more transparent to aid in WOM for the platform), so if you aren't targeting marketing to that platform, would-be newer JRPG fans will have little to no idea the game is there, so they won't buy.

Now, yes, them focusing Western marketing to Xbox & Game Pass in theory would help draw in more people to that genre on those platforms, but the problem is that Xbox as a console has all the issues I just mentioned, and Metaphor is not on Game Pass so it does nothing for that service. Given the advantages PS has over Xbox as a platform globally, any potential new audience for Metaphor or JRPGs in general on Xbox would be dwarfed by a similar new audience on PlayStation, just as it dwarfed by such a new audience on Steam. What's more, PS5 owners are no more inclined to buy an Xbox just because games like Metaphor are being marketed with it, but all the same, if they don't know the game's on PS5 they'll probably just not buy it at all (talking PS5 owners here who don't have a PC or don't game on PC). Which means a net loss for Atlus, in the end.
 

ethomaz

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21 Jun 2022
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Well as @voke said places like ResetERA definitely have been doing the bolded, and it's probably tied to a combination of:

1: The strategic partnership between Microsoft and SEGA/Atlus from early 2022​
2: Viewing Xbox as the spiritual successor to Dreamcast​
3: Viewing Microsoft as some "underdog" (LOL) in the same way SEGA was back as a platform holder​
4: Conflating modern "underdog" Microsoft/Xbox with old SEGA​
5: Blaming Sony for SEGA's demise as a console maker​
6: Blaming Sony for Xbox's death spiral as a traditional console platform​
7: Using Xbox as a proxy vessel/stand-in for SEGA and wanting Microsoft to "exact revenge" against PlayStation to "bring justice" for SEGA​
8: Grown manchildren Nintendo fanboys/fangirls who use Xbox as a proxy against PlayStation blaming Sony for dethroning Nintendo in the home console space, and wanting revenge since Nintendo no longer competes in that space​

All extremely stupid and idiotic reasons, based on sentiments either no longer true (OG Xbox was the only Xbox that was a spiritual successor to SEGA hardware) or were never true (SEGA killed SEGA as a console maker, not Sony).



Just gonna stop you right here because you're doing the thing again; P5 had MULTIPLE re-releases across MULTIPLE platforms (PS3, PS4, PS5, Switch, Xbox Series, Steam) over a period of 8 years in order to reach 10 million units.

For the oddest of reasons, you keep ignoring this and talk about it as if the game accomplished it on one platform, with one version, then using that warped POV to denigrate modern FF sales performance for XVI (a game that only just released last year on a single system that only started resolving stock issues earlier that year, and just recently got a Steam port) and Rebirth (a game that only released THIS YEAR and on only one system!).

You can have a hateboner for XVI and Rebirth (tho seems to be XVI in your case) all you want but please understand there's a difference between that and Persona 5 when it comes to how long they've been out, how many versions they have and how many platforms they're on.



Metaphor is like Starfield in that it's a "new" IP but it shares a lot of DNA with very well-established IP, so it gets by in ways off the cache those IP built. With Starfield, that's obviously Fallout and TES. With Metaphor, it's Persona & SMT.



You act like SE positioned Octopath as a pillar in anywhere the same capacity SEGA/Atlus have with Metaphor. They didn't.

Also it's been six years between Octopath and Metaphor. The addressable market for JRPGs has grown in those six years, so Metaphor has an advantage there that Octopath did not.

Plus as you already said, Octopath didn't launch on PS4 which, in 2018, was the biggest base for JRPGs.



THERE IS NO FANBASE TO BUILD THERE!!! JFC people keep repeating this, you sound like that ex-Square Enix guy who said FF marketing with Xbox would boost PlayStation sales. There is just no logical thought into such claims; if they sound dumb off rip it's because they usually are.

There is no magically secret, massive install base of JRPG fans on Xbox. JRPG people by and large already know of Xbox in that regard since the mid '2000s or from the 2010s, so they know what that platform is like when it comes to JRPGs. Microsoft can't build an audience for the genre there when they have no exclusive JRPGs, no exclusives period (everything is Day 1 on PC), and no value proposition for choosing an Xbox over a PlayStation with the current business model Series S & X are using. And no, Game Pass doesn't cut it either, particularly in this case since Metaphor is not in Game Pass!

Also I find the notion odd that the JRPG audience can't grow on PS5. The audience for any genre can theoretically grow if enough compelling content is made and marketed towards them. Guess what Atlus haven't been doing with Metaphor in the West? Marketing it to PS5 owners. They haven't marketed towards Steam players either, but Steam is a more open platform where WOM plus streamer culture favoring PC gaming basically acts as advertising in its own right. PS5 doesn't have those benefits (though IMO, SIE should open up data metrics for CCUs etc. to be more transparent to aid in WOM for the platform), so if you aren't targeting marketing to that platform, would-be newer JRPG fans will have little to no idea the game is there, so they won't buy.

Now, yes, them focusing Western marketing to Xbox & Game Pass in theory would help draw in more people to that genre on those platforms, but the problem is that Xbox as a console has all the issues I just mentioned, and Metaphor is not on Game Pass so it does nothing for that service. Given the advantages PS has over Xbox as a platform globally, any potential new audience for Metaphor or JRPGs in general on Xbox would be dwarfed by a similar new audience on PlayStation, just as it dwarfed by such a new audience on Steam. What's more, PS5 owners are no more inclined to buy an Xbox just because games like Metaphor are being marketed with it, but all the same, if they don't know the game's on PS5 they'll probably just not buy it at all (talking PS5 owners here who don't have a PC or don't game on PC). Which means a net loss for Atlus, in the end.
Correction…

Overall Person 5 + Persona 5 Royal sales at November 2022: 8.3m
Overall Person 5 + Persona 5 Royal sales at June 2023: 9m

Persona Royal Remaster sales at March 2023: 1.7m

Do you want me do the math to you understand how much Persona 5 sold? At least 6.6m (+ what it sold until March 2023) only on PlayStation 3/4.

Again you keep that weird thinking that Metaphor is comparable to FF when Persona is.
And no matter how much time, re releases or platform you add to FFXVI it won’t reach Persona 5 numbers… let see when it reaches 5 million sold after PC release to have a better ideia how behind it will be to Persona 5.

Metaphor is like the Octopath from Square Enix and they where very happy with 1 million after 3 week.
 
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Impulse

Well-known member
21 Apr 2023
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Metaphor is no 10 on the US PSN charts, how did Sega alienate their audience with this deal?

This is honestly the whole of Resetera atm. They have been propping up SEGA to dunk on Square and honestly its pathetic. You can't spend over a year telling everyone the new AAA FFs are flops for selling 2-3 million when you also praise SEGA for selling under a million copies of Metaphor on 2 extra platform
Square deserves to be dunked on though.

They are probably one of the worst-run big publisher out there. PS exclusivity is probably the least of their problems and they're acting like it's the only problem.

If they continue what they're doing, then I foresee only foresee more Square flops happening, and this time there will be no Sony/Epic bailout money either.
 
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Vertigo

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26 Jun 2022
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Metaphor is no 10 on the US PSN charts, how did Sega alienate their audience with this deal?


Square deserves to be dunked on though.

They are probably one of the worst-run big publisher out there. PS exclusivity is probably the least of their problems and they're acting like it's the only problem.

If they continue what they're doing, then I foresee only foresee more Square flops happening, and this time there will be no Sony/Epic bailout money either.

Partnering with Square for the PS5 with exclusives like Forspoken, foamstars and the FF sequels … was a mistake from Sony. Didn’t move the needle. Square ain’t shit compared to From software etc.

Square is a bad bet outside of FF14. Will continue to be until their house is in order. 1997 was a long time ago…
 
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Kokoloko

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Partnering with Square for the PS5 with exclusives like Forspoken, foamstars and the FF sequels … was a mistake from Sony. Didn’t move the needle. Square ain’t shit compared to From software etc.

Square is a bad bet outside of FF14. Will continue to be until their house is in order. 1997 was a long time ago…

FromSoft is probably the better game development in my opinion. And There games probably cost less?

But FF16 sold 3.5 million less than a week. It probably took Bloodborne awhile to reach that number. So not sure which is smarter. Id say Bloodborne, but only if Sony can produce the same type of games for fans going forward by the same developer.

But it would of been Smart of Sony to work something with Miyazaki and Sega (Yakuza and Persona) were popular with PS fans since PS1/SP2 days. While working with Square with FF and Kingdom Hearts
 
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voke

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Metaphor is no 10 on the US PSN charts, how did Sega alienate their audience with this deal?


Square deserves to be dunked on though.

They are probably one of the worst-run big publisher out there. PS exclusivity is probably the least of their problems and they're acting like it's the only problem.

If they continue what they're doing, then I foresee only foresee more Square flops happening, and this time there will be no Sony/Epic bailout money either.
Square deserves to get dunked on after releasing one of the best games of the year... sure
 
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shocknero

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12 Jun 2023
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Many things were said about the draconian marketing deal Xbox had for Metaphor. It was forbidden for Atlus to put the PS version in any marketing material (trailers, YouTube, twitter). They even had actors hiding the PS logo at TGS.



A lot of people were confused if the game was even coming to PlayStation at all or it was full Xbox exclusive.

Well, it finally came out to incredible reviews...but it only managed to debut at 37 on Xbox. The deluxe edition "Atlus 35th Digital Anniversary Edition" is at number 555 on page 7.

To give you an idea how bad this is. Fear 3 on Xbox 360 is at number 11, Predator Hunting Grounds at number 13, Stray at 28 😬



Do you think it was worth it for Atlus to alienate their main customers for a Xbox deal? Please vote.
Is it still a flop? It’s only reached #10 in PS US store and is at #16 now on Xbox US store when you cut out duplicates which PS store doesn’t count. So not bad all things considered.
 
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Dabaus

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And you call my response a fanboy one 😂😂😂

There is no way a company approve a marketing deal without expected nothing in return… imagine seeing the return in the competition platform lol

It is like Xbox fanboys commemorating the 1 million shipment like it was MS marketing that made it…




It sold 1 million across 3 platforms. FF7 rebirth sells 4 million across one and people act like its a sales failure.
 

ethomaz

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It sold 1 million across 3 platforms. FF7 rebirth sells 4 million across one and people act like its a sales failure.
New niche JRPG franchise vs one of the biggest JRPG franchise of all time... really?
You guys have no shame at all.

Why not use Octopath Traveler as example?
 
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Gods&Monsters

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Metaphor is no 10 on the US PSN charts, how did Sega alienate their audience with this deal?
Is it still a flop? It’s only reached #10 in PS US store and is at #16 now on Xbox US store when you cut out duplicates which PS store doesn’t count. So not bad all things considered.
Number 10 on PSN for a new AAA release is kinda low. If it went top 3 and then fell down to 10 after the first weekend, maybe, but it was always low since last week. The WOM helped it reach top 10 at least 👍
 

voke

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New niche JRPG franchise vs one of the biggest JRPG franchise of all time... really?
You guys have no shame at all.

Why not use Octopath Traveler as example?
Why do you keep bringing up Octopath? Metaphor was 7 years in the making by the same team that made Persona 5, it's the main team at Atlus. It's not some small side project like Octopath. It wasn't even on PlayStation?

It's not niche, it's the most high-profile AAA JRPG of the year after Rebirth.

That's like saying Elden Ring was niche because it's a new IP 🤡

You're the last person on this board that should celebrate 1 million sales after your endless posts about FF. Shameless yourself.
 
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ethomaz

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Why do you keep bringing up Octopath? Metaphor was 7 years in the making by the same team that made Persona 5, it's the main team at Atlus. It's not some small side project like Octopath. It wasn't even on PlayStation?

It's not niche, it's the most high-profile AAA JRPG of the year after Rebirth.

That's like saying Elden Ring was niche because it's a new IP 🤡

You're the last person on this board that should celebrate 1 million sales after your endless posts about FF. Shameless yourself.
You guys are shameless…

Comparing a new niche JRPG game from Atlus with one of the biggest JRPG franchise from Square Enix.

I look at facts not bias.
 

ethomaz

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It takes maybe 30 minutes of Metaphor to realize you are essentially playing the spiritual successor of Persona.
Just like Octopath Traveler is the spiritual sucessor of FF.
Means nothing at all.

BTW be happy because soon you could play another FF spiritual sucessor: Fantasian.
 
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Gods&Monsters

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You guys are shameless…

Comparing a new niche JRPG game from Atlus with one of the biggest JRPG franchise from Square Enix.

I look at facts not bias.
Atlus and Square are at the top of the JRPG world. We are not in early 00s, Atlus is not niche anymore. Get with the times.

Calling it small and niche when Xbox was promoting it as a big tentpole release for them is disingenuous (Geoff, showcase, multiple promo spots).

You just want to continue your smear campaign against FF. Nobody in the world thought Metaphor was just some small JRPG.

XY X: Nordics just came out. That's an actual niche JRPG. Can you honestly say Metaphor was the same level of expectations as YS?
 
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