Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart peaks at less than 9k concurrent players on Steam, third worst PC launch for PlayStation game

[historia]

I made like 8 points in that thread, all 100% correct. You start your response with 'bullshit' is if that negates it.

Developers aren't targeting "thousands of possible hardware configurations". They're targeting the x86 CPU standard and some graphics api like DX12, DX11, Vulkan. Often they're not even going that deep, instead targeting mature portable engines like UE4 and Unity. There are many games that launch in a shoddy state, but there aren't many games still in that state, shit gets fixed. Meanwhile every game from the PS3 era that was ported to PC runs in 4k and generally holds up nicely. Games from 2005 running on PC don't feel retro, they have perfect image quality and unlimited framerate on any GPU in the last few years.

Rooting against PC is rooting against yourself. Any fleeting issue with PC gaming is nothing compared to preserving by far the biggest library of games going back to the 80s. PC (w/ Steam) IS gaming, while every console is just an incomplete reflection of gaming at some point in time.

To be fair you are kinda right, a lot of PS3 games just got stuck on that platform until Sony figures how their own hardware works. I want to play games Siren but welp.

But nowadays games hardware are more streamlined than ever. So it doesn't matter that much.

 

[flaccidsnake]

To be fair you are kinda right, a lot of PS3 games just got stuck on that platform until Sony figures how their own hardware works. I want to play games Siren but welp.

But nowadays games hardware are more streamlined than ever. So it doesn't matter that much.

PS4 is 95% a PC inside and still Bloodborne, which many people say is the greatest game ever made, is locked forever in a kinda janky state with not great image quality, and far from perfect frame delivery. This game would run at locked 60 on a low end laptop GPU from 5 years ago. Elden Ring runs great on a handheld. It's such a sadness.

 

[Swift_Star]

I am not sure if consoles hold back tech, specially the ones from Sony and MS. They provide a new baseline.

But sure as hell gaming PCs never did. Do you guys think that a 4790k won't be able to run 9th gen games decently?

PC gamers with high end rigs Haswell and up have been cruising through the 8th gen.

Consoles do not hold back tech, they're the baseline. This take is asinine, disingenuous and pure platform warring fodder.
The only reason game runs better on newer GPUs is because the consoles are weaker than them.
Does anyone wants a Crysis scenario happening again? No one wants that and it's very stupid to do so in this day and age.

 

[flaccidsnake]

Consoles do not hold back tech, they're the baseline. This take is asinine, disingenuous and pure platform warring fodder.
The only reason game runs better on newer GPUs is because the consoles are weaker than them.
Does anyone wants a Crysis scenario happening again? No one wants that and it's very stupid to do so in this day and age.

the only reason series s holds back xbox development is because it's weaker than series x.

 

[Nhomnhom]

I made like 8 points in that thread, all 100% correct. You start your response with 'bullshit' is if that negates it.

Developers aren't targeting "thousands of possible hardware configurations". They're targeting the x86 CPU standard and some graphics api like DX12, DX11, Vulkan. Often they're not even going that deep, instead targeting mature portable engines like UE4 and Unity. There are many games that launch in a shoddy state, but there aren't many games still in that state, shit gets fixed. Meanwhile every game from the PS3 era that was ported to PC runs in 4k and generally holds up nicely. Games from 2005 running on PC don't feel retro, they have perfect image quality and unlimited framerate on any GPU in the last few years.

Rooting against PC is rooting against yourself. Any fleeting issue with PC gaming is nothing compared to preserving by far the biggest library of games going back to the 80s. PC (w/ Steam) IS gaming, while every console is just an incomplete reflection of gaming at some point in time.

By targeting x86/DX12/DX11/Vulkan they are targeting thousands of possible hardware configurations.

The result speak for itself, bad ports galore.

PC players are some of the biggest bullshiters on the internet, they'll be talk about gaming preservation and PC helping console while in reality pirating games console players have paid for and shitting on console's extremely competitive hardware.

the only reason series s holds back xbox development is because it's weaker than series x.

So are the PCs these ports are targeting with their minimal specs. No PC port champion should ever talk shit on the Series S.

 

[flaccidsnake]

By targeting x86/DX12/DX11/Vulkan they are targeting thousands of possible hardware configurations.

The result speak for itself, bad ports galore.

The only thing you can defend as a persistent issue is shader compilation stutter, and it occurs similarly on AMD, Nvidia, and Intel cards. It's not a compatibility problem caused by differences between the GTX 2060 and the RX 6700. It's a problem with circa-2016 engine design.

 

[Nhomnhom]

The only thing you can defend as a persistent issue is shader compilation stutter, and it occurs similarly on AMD, Nvidia, and Intel cards. It's not a compatibility problem caused by differences between the GTX 2060 and the RX 6700. It's a problem with circa-2016 engine design.

Stutter on PC predates 2016, were you playing on PC before that? I was.

I don't understand how the problem being widespread somehow makes it better, it makes it worse that it happens on all types of PC hardware.

 

[flaccidsnake]

Stutter on PC predates 2016, were you playing on PC before that? I was.

I don't understand how the problem being widespread somehow makes it better, it makes it worse that it happens on all types of PC hardware.

you said the problem was supporting thousands of hardware configurations. it's not.

 

[Nhomnhom]

you said the problem was supporting thousands of hardware configurations. it's not.

So what is the problem? Having to support such a variety of different hardware was always the problem with PC, specially now that most ambitious games are ports and not made by PC only devs like in the past.

There is definitely a solution to stutter somewhere and I find it absurd that all these companies haven't done something address it. PC ports sadly just seem to have a really low bar for quality.

As someone who mostly played on PC my entire life, the low quality control and specially issues like stutter are what turned me into someone that now plays most AAA games on console.

 

[flaccidsnake]

So what is the problem? Having to support such a variety of different hardware was always the problem with PC, specially now that most ambitious games are ports and not made by PC only devs like in the past.

There is definitely a solution to stutter somewhere and I find it absurd that all these companies haven't done something address it. PC ports sadly just seem to have a really low bar for quality.

the problem is on-demand shader compilation. don't do it. don't ship a game with it. pre-compile shaders before the first run. ue4 doesn't make this easy enough. also there's a disconnect between art and tech in large game development. artists tend to run wild with shaders based on the look they want in the scene without considering the impact to the whole project. there should be more re-use, and less total shaders overall. but that is part of project management.

 

[Nhomnhom]

the problem is on-demand shader compilation. don't do it. don't ship a game with it. pre-compile shaders before the first run. ue4 doesn't make this easy enough. also there's a disconnect between art and tech in large game development. artists tend to run wild with shaders based on the look they want in the scene without considering the impact to the whole project. there should be more re-use, and less total shaders overall. but that is part of project management.

If it's that easy why do we have this issue plaguing PC games for so many years at this point?

Personally I'm ever more dissatisfied with PS5 but with PC having those issues I still find playing on PS5 a much better experience that allows me to focus on games and not on hardware or solving issues.

Even if also present on console, stutter and poorly technically made games bother me a lot less there.

 

[Welfare]

This is such a disingenuous point to tie Nintendo into. You KNOW that Nintendo barely ever budges on the price for their games. Ever. Nintendo's catalog sales are done with games that retain 85% of the original MSRP several years down the line, and they have a fanbase and media on their side who 100% support it despite claiming games costing $70 at launch was "anti-consumer" by a certain company until a certain other company also raised their new game prices to $70 a couple or so years later.

So you agree that catalog sales are important to Nintnedo. Cool. PC is another platform Sony can use to generate a steady stream of sales that wouldn't occur on PS5.

Nintnedo games not going down in price has nothing to do with what I said. They did do the Nintnedo selects line but now they don't have to with Switch because their games are just that good. That's what being evergreen means.

Sony and Xbox games not having the cachet Nintnedo does doesn't make my bringing them up disingenuous.

You are, firstly, overestimating the total number of Steam sales; the 130 million users reported doesn't represent 130 million buying customers. I'm sure for a lot of Steam users, the account is part of their extended social media presence. Sell 100K on Steam at $20 a copy nets Sony significantly less profit than selling 1 million at $70 on a platform where they retain all the revenue themselves, that's just simple math.

Money is money and if the overall success of their ports generate a lot of money, that's simple math.

So after month 1 when sales drop significantly from day 1, and we are talking year 2, year 3 sales, Sony will make more money from having their games on Steam than not.

We already know some sales for Sony games on PC. Over 2M for Horizon ZD, over 1M for Spider-Man, what should be over 1M for God of War and probably Days Gone, and TLOU should be ~400K right now.

That's a significant amount of units sold for what amounts to old games.

Xbox makes more revenue from software because they purchased Elder Scrolls Online, Fallout '76 and Minecraft, and the revenue of those games are now part of Xbox division's revenue. Also I would temper your expectations for sales of games like Forza Horizon, Sea of Thieves, Halo MCC etc. on Steam; those games at this point are moving closer to maybe 2K-3K a month, and sometimes that is with aggressive pricing sales. If the numbers were significantly higher, the average concurrent player counts and monthly player counts would see big jumps, but they don't.

Xbox software revenue was already growing before Zenimax. The following is the average content and services revenue of the January to September quarters for each year, as to avoid the holiday spike.

2015: 1,246,666,667
2016: 1,345,000,000
2017: 1,516,666,667
2018: 2,001,000,000
2019: 2,054,666,667
2020: 2,685,666,667
2021: 2,908,666,667
2022: 2,865,000,000

2020, 21, and 22 are also impacted by COVID so those aren't as accurate a trend.

All those Microsoft games do way better than you expect on Steam. You also vastly overestimate player counts and its relation to sales. Sea of Thieves sold 5M units on Steam in a year and a half and this is what the player chart looks like since launch. The lows have been pretty stable since 2021, and the peaks not that off.

Those games are definitely doing more than 2-3K a month.

And in doing that they'll kill off a lot of the appeal of the console for enthusiasts in the ecosystem. Which will lead to a noted drop in overall revenue as some of those enthusiasts switch to Steam for their purchases of not just Sony games but 3P games they'd of otherwise bought on PlayStation, drop their PS+ subscriptions, and opt out of buying the next console.

And Xbox has already shown this doesn't happen. Overall Xbox revenue is higher today than last gen, and far higher than the Xbox 360 days.

2015: 9,232,000,000
2016: 8,930,000,000
2017: 9,365,000,000
2018: 11,507,000,000
2019: 10,285,000,000
2020: 13,829,000,000
2021: 16,282,000,000
2022: 15,563,000,000

Sony will only make more money as it grows its PC business and will eventually want to maximize that growth by going day and date.

Hogwarts is an anomaly for performance of sales on PC. Typical launch numbers, even for other AAA games, are much lower.

Hogwarts is also not the only game that has ever had a successful launch on Steam. And again, the legs of sales is more important on PC than launch.

 

[JAHGamer]

So you agree that catalog sales are important to Nintnedo. Cool. PC is another platform Sony can use to generate a steady stream of sales that wouldn't occur on PS5.

Nintnedo games not going down in price has nothing to do with what I said. They did do the Nintnedo selects line but now they don't have to with Switch because their games are just that good. That's what being evergreen means.

Sony and Xbox games not having the cachet Nintnedo does doesn't make my bringing them up disingenuous.

Money is money and if the overall success of their ports generate a lot of money, that's simple math.

So after month 1 when sales drop significantly from day 1, and we are talking year 2, year 3 sales, Sony will make more money from having their games on Steam than not.

We already know some sales for Sony games on PC. Over 2M for Horizon ZD, over 1M for Spider-Man, what should be over 1M for God of War and probably Days Gone, and TLOU should be ~400K right now.

That's a significant amount of units sold for what amounts to old games.

Xbox software revenue was already growing before Zenimax. The following is the average content and services revenue of the January to September quarters for each year, as to avoid the holiday spike.

2015: 1,246,666,667
2016: 1,345,000,000
2017: 1,516,666,667
2018: 2,001,000,000
2019: 2,054,666,667
2020: 2,685,666,667
2021: 2,908,666,667
2022: 2,865,000,000

2020, 21, and 22 are also impacted by COVID so those aren't as accurate a trend.

All those Microsoft games do way better than you expect on Steam. You also vastly overestimate player counts and its relation to sales. Sea of Thieves sold 5M units on Steam in a year and a half and this is what the player chart looks like since launch. The lows have been pretty stable since 2021, and the peaks not that off.

Those games are definitely doing more than 2-3K a month.


And Xbox has already shown this doesn't happen. Overall Xbox revenue is higher today than last gen, and far higher than the Xbox 360 days.

2015: 9,232,000,000
2016: 8,930,000,000
2017: 9,365,000,000
2018: 11,507,000,000
2019: 10,285,000,000
2020: 13,829,000,000
2021: 16,282,000,000
2022: 15,563,000,000

Sony will only make more money as it grows its PC business and will eventually want to maximize that growth by going day and date.

Hogwarts is also not the only game that has ever had a successful launch on Steam. And again, the legs of sales is more important on PC than launch.

Welfare has a special talent of saying a lot and everything being 100% incorrect Stick to pushing your propaganda on installbase and reset, people on this forum are much smarter and won't fall for your nonsense

 

[Nhomnhom]

So you agree that catalog sales are important to Nintnedo. Cool. PC is another platform Sony can use to generate a steady stream of sales that wouldn't occur on PS5.

Nintnedo games not going down in price has nothing to do with what I said. They did do the Nintnedo selects line but now they don't have to with Switch because their games are just that good. That's what being evergreen means.

Sony and Xbox games not having the cachet Nintnedo does doesn't make my bringing them up disingenuous.

Money is money and if the overall success of their ports generate a lot of money, that's simple math.

So after month 1 when sales drop significantly from day 1, and we are talking year 2, year 3 sales, Sony will make more money from having their games on Steam than not.

We already know some sales for Sony games on PC. Over 2M for Horizon ZD, over 1M for Spider-Man, what should be over 1M for God of War and probably Days Gone, and TLOU should be ~400K right now.

That's a significant amount of units sold for what amounts to old games.

Xbox software revenue was already growing before Zenimax. The following is the average content and services revenue of the January to September quarters for each year, as to avoid the holiday spike.

2015: 1,246,666,667
2016: 1,345,000,000
2017: 1,516,666,667
2018: 2,001,000,000
2019: 2,054,666,667
2020: 2,685,666,667
2021: 2,908,666,667
2022: 2,865,000,000

2020, 21, and 22 are also impacted by COVID so those aren't as accurate a trend.

All those Microsoft games do way better than you expect on Steam. You also vastly overestimate player counts and its relation to sales. Sea of Thieves sold 5M units on Steam in a year and a half and this is what the player chart looks like since launch. The lows have been pretty stable since 2021, and the peaks not that off.

Those games are definitely doing more than 2-3K a month.


And Xbox has already shown this doesn't happen. Overall Xbox revenue is higher today than last gen, and far higher than the Xbox 360 days.

2015: 9,232,000,000
2016: 8,930,000,000
2017: 9,365,000,000
2018: 11,507,000,000
2019: 10,285,000,000
2020: 13,829,000,000
2021: 16,282,000,000
2022: 15,563,000,000

Sony will only make more money as it grows its PC business and will eventually want to maximize that growth by going day and date.

Hogwarts is also not the only game that has ever had a successful launch on Steam. And again, the legs of sales is more important on PC than launch.

So you think Nintendo should port their games to PC or even PlayStation as well? That would mean even more money going their way right? They would only be making more money.

 

[Systemshock2023]

Nintendo it's different. It's games are the only reason folks put up with that trash tier HW and ecosystem. Anyone would dump Nintendo right away if their games were released on PC/PS/Xbox.

PS/Xbox have other, more robust, advantages besides their first party games. You can easily do without any of their exclusives (many people do, judging by sales) and still have a great, modern gaming experience.

 

[Nhomnhom]

Nintendo it's different. It's games are the only reason folks put up with that trash tier HW and ecosystem. Anyone would dump Nintendo right away if their games were released on PC/PS/Xbox.

PS/Xbox have other, more robust, advantages besides their first party games. You can easily do without any of their exclusives (many people do, judging by sales) and still have a great, modern gaming experience.

People would dump a Nintendo portable system to play improved versions on PlayStation but won't dump their PlayStation for improved versions on PC?

Next you are going to tell me that PC players won't buy Nintendo games because they can just pirate them but will somehow buy Sony games on PC that get cracked day one.

To sum it up, Sony should release all their games on PC but Nintendo shouldn't release their games on anything but Nintendo consoles?

 

[Welfare]

Welfare has a special talent of saying a lot and everything being 100% incorrect Stick to pushing your propaganda on installbase and reset, people on this forum are much smarter and won't fall for your nonsense

I've only ever been proven right since I've been on this forum and literally everything I said in that post is 100% correct.

Sony will continue to release games to PC and you will wake up one day to the news of Sony releasing a AAA game day and date with PC and PS before you read they are pulling out of the PC market.

So you think Nintendo should port their games to PC or even PlayStation as well? That would mean even more money going their way right? They would only be making more money.

Nintnedo probably could release their games on PC, but first they should ensure their consoles are consistent sellers.

I never said or insinuated Nintnedo should go third party on PlayStation. That same argument has been repeated for Xbox but it'll never happen.

 

[historia]

I've only ever been proven right since I've been on this forum and literally everything I said in that post is 100% correct.

Sony will continue to release games to PC and you will wake up one day to the news of Sony releasing a AAA game day and date with PC and PS before you read they are pulling out of the PC market.

I meant they are, but GaaS games only.

You are not set to be wrong when just throw obvious shit to the wall.

 

[Systemshock2023]

People would dump a Nintendo portable system to play improved versions on PlayStation but won't dump their PlayStation for improved versions on PC?

Next you are going to tell me that PC players won't buy Nintendo games because they can just pirate them but will somehow buy Sony games on PC that get cracked days one.

To sum it up, Sony should release all their games on PC but Nintendo shouldn't release their games on anything but Nintendo consoles?

Some playstation or Xbox gamers might but those consoles are still good alternatives and will keep their playerbases.

Just game on a Nintendo console for a week... it's not a matter of ray tracing on and off, dynamic 4k vs native,ultra vs high ... you know, the discussions we might have when talking PC vs ps/Xbox. ...most of those games absolutely suffer by being on that console. 360/540p resolutions in some games, sub 30 FPS. And to top it of, the joycons... some of the worst controllers ever... designed for dwarfs.

Everything is trash but some of their first party games. Nintendo absolutely dies for everyone but japanese folk on the day they put their games on other vastly superior platforms.

 

[historia]

Some playstation or Xbox gamers might but those consoles are still good alternatives and will keep their playerbases.

Just game on a Nintendo console for a week... it's not a matter of ray tracing on and off, dynamic 4k vs native,ultra vs high ... you know, the discussions we might have when talking PC vs ps/Xbox. ...most of those games absolutely suffer by being on that console. 360/540p resolutions in some games, sub 30 FPS. And to top it of, the joycons... some of the worst controllers ever... designed for dwarfs.

Everything is trash but some of their first party games. Nintendo absolutely dies for everyone but japanese folk on the day they put their games on other vastly superior platforms.

Oh wow a pc supremacist

I sincerely hope Switch 2 is powerful enough so all the PC supermacist port beggars loser can't emulate that shit anymore so they have to cave in and buy the hardware to play the games.