Shawn layden interview When your costs for a game exceed $200 million, exclusivity is your Achilles’ heel.

[Gods&Monsters]

Which numbers are you looking at? PC players dwarfs console players.

Number of PC gamers worldwide 2024 | Statista

In 2020, there were an estimated 1.75 billion PC gamers worldwide, up from 1.5 billion PC gaming users in the previous year.

www.statista.com

These people don't play AAA games with 200 millions budget. They are in random Korean PC Bangs and Counterstrike AI Bots players.

The AAA market and publishers wouldn't survive on PC. PC sales would not even cover the development cost.

That's like saying Mobile is a big market. How does that help Sony? They are not going to release GOW on iOS.

 

[Danja]

He's been saying this for years. With that said, he needs to the shut the fuck already. Time to move on from PlayStation Shawn... Let it go already.

 

[flaccidsnake]

That's like saying Mobile is a big market. How does that help Sony? They are not going to release GOW on iOS.

With the latest iPhones capable of playing Death Stranding, I don't know why you wouldn't aggressively port every ps4 catalog game to iOS immediately.

 

[Nhomnhom]

Hollywood should just stop making movies then....

These expensive games are also their most profitable, all this complaining makes no sense. Enjoy your AA games going forward.

 

[Dr Bass]

These people don't play AAA games with 200 millions budget. They are in random Korean PC Bangs and Counterstrike AI Bots players.

The AAA market and publishers wouldn't survive on PC. PC sales would not even cover the development cost.

That's like saying Mobile is a big market. How does that help Sony? They are not going to release GOW on iOS.

Well ... mobile IS a big market. Bigger than the consoles by a huge number. Apple makes more money on gaming by doing nothing other than having a store front than any of the console guys.

Mobile Games Revenue Data (2024)

Key Mobile Game Revenue StatisticsMobile Game RevenueiOS Mobile Game RevenueGoogle Play Mobile Game RevenueMobile Game Revenue by CountryMobile Game Revenue by GenreGame Revenue Market ShareMobile Game Revenue by FeatureMobile games contribute to the majority of consumer spending on mobile...

www.businessofapps.com

I know that's not the topic, but the topic is also not "how does this help Sony."

I was merely pointing out earlier that saying PC is a dying shrinking market, is simply not true. It's a different one yes, but it has a huge number of players/customers. No, they don't seem to gravitate towards big AAA single player games, which is why Sony shouldn't pursue them. I made that point as well.

I'm just not a fan of people trying to downplay things they don't like if the numbers don't tell that story. Similar to how Nintendo has been going out of business for the last 30 years. There is no need for any of us to say something we don't like is doing badly, if it's not. It's really that simple. How is that even contentious?

 

[ghostwriter74]

What else can he say, he now works for Tencent. Still find his framing wrong. Of course, such expensive productions are a risk.

Nevertheless, such exclusive titles are system sellers that lead to more income in the long term. Every annual report shows where Sony makes the most money. Should Sony at some point have the idea of actually publishing single player games Day 1 for PC, this will inevitably lead to declining sales figures in the PS ecosystem. Even if only 1 million players switch to the PC, phase out PS+ and buy MTX for “Fifa”, Fortnite or Warzone there, Sony will lose a few million every year. And that won't be offset by 10% more sales on PC. Sony then has to give 30% to Steam.

I already know a few who have sold their PS5 and only use PC and Switch because Sony will also release everything for PC in the medium term. I'm curious to see whether the PS5 will ultimately reach the numbers of the PS4 or how the PS6 will be sold if Sony further weakens its exclusivity.

MS also thought Xbox Games Day1 for PC was a great idea, and almost 10 years later they have to publish games for the competition because they lost the connection in the console market. Sony will certainly lose 10-20% market share and Nintendo will benefit from this, as they certainly won't think about porting exclusives.

Some will certainly always choose consoles, but more and more are benefiting from PCs and saving money. The next generation will definitely be interesting.

 

[Systemshock2023]

Nintendo will benefit from this, as they certainly won't think about porting exclusives.

Some will certainly always choose consoles, but more and more are benefiting from PCs and saving money. The next generation will definitely be interesting.

Nintendo first has to find the alchemy to render games beyond 2004 PC image quality standards. They will never stop being a secondary console until that point.

 

[J_Paganel]

Revenue is always positioned at the top of a financial report though. It is best used to measure growth (which basically tells you that the console market is growing, contrary to the belief of some PC fanboys). while profit just tells you about the operation efficiency (Sony has been expanding over the last few years so it is understandable that they do not have high margin profit).

Based on the layoffs and problems with releasing new IP, this "expansion" turned out to be inefficient and unprofitable.

Other studios outside of Insomniac and Naughty Dog were not treated well, and their IPs did not receive as many resources, especially marketing money.

As a result, there are big problems with IP for PS5, and the situation is saved by games from partner studios that are due out in a couple of months.

Against this backdrop, there are layoffs and news of projects being canceled.

 

[J_Paganel]

To say the console market did not grow just by looking at the total number of users is stupid. Revenue has been higher than ever, even with a loser like Xbox. Sony could have expanded their ecosystem further by buying some more studios and delivering even more exclusives (compared to the last generation) but they instead focus on PC porting old games while leaving their fucking actual dedicated fans with nothing to eat. It is not acceptable, and they complain about how they are not selling enough PS5. Where are the games.

We could have gotten Days Gone 2 (a direct sequel, to be made in 4 years), and similar projects from other small studios, but Sony's attention was focused on Spider Man 2, and Naughty Dog projects, as well as Gaas games and PC ports...

 

[Nomen_Nescio]

Maybe if certain platform holders got more creative with their offerings on their console in terms of features and software variety exclusivity to better compete with other gaming devices that aren't necessarily consoles, they'd actually be able to grow their install base.

And if all the platform holders did similar moves (or at least the two that seem more in need to do it; Nintendo seems the exception), the total addressable console market size would grow. I mean we saw that happen in the 7th gen, because all three platform holders were hungry and wanted to maximize their respective console offerings.

This gen? It's mostly been more of the same as before, complete complacency from one (Microsoft) and creeping complacency from another (Sony), when it comes to fully maximizing the offering of their consoles. It's like a restaurant chain getting lazy in their service and recipes and then complains the entire restaurant industry is in decline. No, maybe it's just your restaurant because you need to innovate with your restaurant, not think you can just put your stuff in other restaurants and suddenly reverse fortunes.

These companies have to take accountability for their own situations and stop acting like the market itself is the problem.

 

[Bryank75]

 

[flaccidsnake]

This is fire so far.

Near the end, he is asked whether the console is still important. He said both Playstation and Xbox are basically AMD consoles, they're virtually identical inside and between those and a high end PC, they're all able to provide the same kind of experience. This is in contrast to past generations like PS2 vs Dreamcast or PS3 vs 360 where the differences between the boxes was more obvious.

Since they all do the same thing, he compares it with a DVD player. Do you buy a DVD player because you want a new piece of plastic in your house? No you want to watch the movie on the DVD. So more than ever, the battle is over content, not hardware.

 

[Evilnemesis8]

The WUPS guys did it again, it's so funny seeing someone like Layden going to such a small podcast to just talk.
Not that I don't mind, content is content.

I'm not in the mood to listen to it right now, but I'll get back to this probably in the next few days.

This is fire so far.

Since they all do the same thing, he compares it with a DVD player. Do you buy a DVD player because you want a new piece of plastic in your house? No you want to watch the movie on the DVD. So more than ever, the battle is over content, not hardware.

This has been the case for quite a while tbh, I'm sure third party debs are probably pretty happy that stuff is similar in nature, but it does suck as gaming enthusiast to not have bespoke solutions to mark a striking difference between the hardware to nerd about. Only Nintendo right now is doing their own little thing unlike back in the days

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

That's pretty cool, this is I believe the second time WUPS have had Layden on there. Will definitely give this a listen over the weekend!

 

[flaccidsnake]

This has been the case for quite a while tbh, I'm sure third party debs are probably pretty happy that stuff is similar in nature, but it does suck as gaming enthusiast to not have bespoke solutions to mark a striking difference between the hardware to nerd about. Only Nintendo right now is doing their own little thing unlike back in the days

As somebody who installed OtherOS on my PS3 and ran my own SPU code, I honestly don't understand why ^ sucks. It's better for everybody that developers are working on hardware they're very comfortable with, and they don't need to target radically different targets. This is not a useful, fulfilling thing to nerd about. Get a better nerd hobby like watching trains.

Nintendo isn't doing anything interesting. They took a board that already existed in the Nvidia Shield TV and put it in a cheep feeling chassis with a bad screen. It's the laziest gaming hardware design of all time.

 

[Evilnemesis8]

It's better for everybody that developers are working on hardware they're very comfortable with, and they don't need to target radically different targets. This is not a useful, fulfilling thing to nerd about. Get a better nerd hobby like watching trains.

Are we are the point where I'm being told what I can't and cannot find fun?
I think you typing this is the least useful thing, tbh.

Gatekeeping hobbies on a video game forum, ayy lmao.

Nintendo isn't doing anything interesting. They took a board that already existed in the Nvidia Shield TV and put it in a cheep feeling chassis with a bad screen. It's the laziest gaming hardware design of all time.

Being different than the competition is interesting in itself, I could imagine a scenario where all 3 of them are literally the same thing.

 

[flaccidsnake]

Are we are the point where I'm being told what I can't and cannot find fun?
I think you typing this is the least useful thing, tbh.

Gatekeeping hobbies on a video game forum, ayy lmao

You said "it sucks", but it's way better. Anyone at Sony who proposes a reimagined Cell processor for PS6 would be ejected from the building.

If youre interested in CPU architectures in general as a hobby, there's still lots of innovation to follow. Pining for the bad old days of console design/development is what I'm responding negatively to.

 

[Evilnemesis8]

You said "it sucks", but it's way better. Anyone at Sony who proposes a reimagined Cell processor for PS6 would be ejected from the building.

I think it was pretty clear that I meant "it sucks for my own niche enjoyment" I was not speaking about the ecosystem at large.
Just like how rule changes in sports can also mean "it sucks for viewers, but not for players" or vice versa.

 

[Bryank75]

This is fire so far.

Near the end, he is asked whether the console is still important. He said both Playstation and Xbox are basically AMD consoles, they're virtually identical inside and between those and a high end PC, they're all able to provide the same kind of experience. This is in contrast to past generations like PS2 vs Dreamcast or PS3 vs 360 where the differences between the boxes was more obvious.

Since they all do the same thing, he compares it with a DVD player. Do you buy a DVD player because you want a new piece of plastic in your house? No you want to watch the movie on the DVD. So more than ever, the battle is over content, not hardware.

Yes but PlayStation is a closed platform....

PC can be the google of gaming.

PS is the Apple of gaming and PlayStation consoles should be viewed as the iPhone of gaming.

Simply put, without console, gaming would collapse at the AAA level and possibly at AA too.
Even Microsoft gaming will be dependent on PS console succeeding in the future to access gamers in many territories.

 

[Evilnemesis8]

Simply put, without console, gaming would collapse at the AAA level and possibly at AA too.
Even Microsoft gaming will be dependent on PS console succeeding in the future to access gamers in many territories.

This is why I'm supremely interested in the console sales moving forward.

PS5 has missed by a decent margin its aggressive forecast for the year(still 1 quarter left to see if they hit their revised goal)

Both Series and PS5 are behind PS4/Xbone launch aligned.
If there's no uptick(why would there be?)this decline generation over generation will continue and possibly get even worse as time goes by.

Where do all these lost hardware consumers go? PC? Mobile? Left gaming and picking up other forms of entertainment?
What about Nintendo, can they repeat Switch success?

What does this mean for the gaming landscape in general?
All things that I don't really have an answer to because there's just a lack of data right now, but there's potentially big shifts happening in the next few years by the looks of things.