Switch 2 rumor |OT| launch at $400. |UP| Successor to switch will be announced at end of fiscal year.

[ToTTenTranz]

I remember we had all duff types of architecture rumors and ppl saying it was going to be this powerful due to the new chips Nintendo might use and if course we got the Switch levels of nothing

Yes, and it's happening all over again.

The Wii U was a bomb and Nvidia's mobile GPU tech wasn't great at the time, so Nintendo had to take what they could get.

Ampere isn't a good mobile GPU tech. It never was. Perf/watt on RDNA2 was always better unless you enable RT which Nintendo probably isn't going to, in a 5-15W chip. Save for simpler stuff like reflections on Doom Eternal, which the Steam Deck can also do for example.

What exactly is unbelievable about these Switch 2 specs for a device launching in early 2025 for a mass market?

It's using an old chip that finished development 3 years ago.

Switch 2 could probably definitely runs VII Remake at 4K60 albeit reconstructed 4K with DLSS 3.1 or 3.2.

No, it definitely does not.

First off, there's no DLSS3 on the Switch 2 because (unless Nvidia's been lying) Ampere's optical flow accelerators don't support frame generation. There's DLSS2 and maybe ray reconstruction when raytracing is used and that's it.
Second:

The RTX 3070 with 22 TFLOPs / 245 Tensor OPs needs 1.4ms to run DLSS2 in Performance mode from 1080p to 4K output.
On the Switch 2's GPU which is at best, 5x slower (probably slower), it'll take 5.4ms out of a 16.6ms frametime (for 60FPS). That means the Switch 2 would need to be able to run Final Fantasy VII Remake at 1080p in 11.2ms frametime, which is a whopping 89.3 FPS. Which is not going to happen.

 

[Systemshock2023]

Too good to be true. Those would be amazing specs for a steam deck 2 and I don't even think it would be possible due to thermals.

 

[Gamernyc78]

It's a Chihuahua barking up a tree. Most of tht won't come to pass this is déjà vu and of course you have ppl tht don't learn from the first go around.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Its 2024.

Some drone releases wishfull dreams. Every1 gets hyped.
Nintondo releases 40% weaker machine.

Evry1 quickly forgets it. Its all about mario. Juat like we did 30 years ago. Who cares.

That rumored machine s not hapening for 399. And with mobile batery.

And more interesting s how will N deal with hd development. I assume drones re not going to accept 720p, 20 fps, no voice acting, reading walls of text, textures from 2014 in 2025?

We want the iso roms sold to us for $70

 

[PlacidusaX]

I remember we had all diff types of architecture rumors and ppl saying it was going to be this powerful due to the new chips Nintendo might use and of course we got the Switch levels of nothing They added one more pixel to Mario's hat

I never saw any over hyped spec rumors.
If anything these current specs and the fact that the Matrix demo ran on it are the most hyped thus far.

 

[PlacidusaX]

Oh crap, I guess it's hype season for Nintendo again, the kind of hype that always makes fans fall harder than ever.

Guys, don't do this to yourselves. You'll only need to cope harder and cry a lot more when the day comes.





I don't know where that GPU arrangement is coming from (12 SM sounds too large for a 5W chip from Nintendo but ok) but even if it's real, it's absolutely not 60% of a desktop RTX 3050 like the one you posted.

That graphics card consumes 130W (just GPU, no CPU) and the Switch 2 will consume ~10x less than that while having to power the CPU as well. The iGPU in the Switch 2 isn't going to clock all the way up to 1940MHz. It'll probably be 1GHz in docked mode. Maybe even less if it has 12 fully functioning SM. Not to mention the halved memory bandwidth that also needs to feed the CPU.

At best, we're looking at half the compute performance of the RTX 2050 Mobile (Ampere 2048 shaders @1400MHz, 112GB/s just for GPU) which is Steam Deck levels of performance when docked.



The original source for those performance numbers is actually a guy from Resetera who calls himself a "Diversity Analyst".
The dude hasn't the faintest idea about actual performance numbers because no one's seen anything about CPU and GPU clocks (as he himself reveals later in the thread). The thing isn't coming out in another 11 months so there's a good chance no one knows because there are no production units available yet.

Later in the thread he says he took the performance numbers by assuming the same GPU clocks as the Switch 1. If it's the same 384MHz hand / 768MHz docked clocks then the raw performance is:
- Handheld 1.18 TFLOPs FP32 (2.36 TF dual issue)
- Docked 2.39 TFLOPs FP32 (or 4.8TF dual-issue like RDNA3 vs RDNA2)

Neither is 1.18 TFLOPs much faster than the PS4's 1.8TFLOPs, nor is the 2.39 TFLOPs much faster than the PS4 Pro's 4TFLOPs.
And then he decides to put that "before DLSS" crap, as if there hadn't been any temporal upscaling tech used in the PS4 and PS4 Pro. DLSS takes a lead over those but it's not like it comes for free on a small GPU.

PS4 isn't running the Matrix demo all the wall of text you posted for nothing.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I never saw any over hyped spec rumors.
If anything these current specs and the fact that the Matrix demo ran on it are the most hyped thus far.

I did and so did many others. Ppl assumed it would have all types of architecture. Plenty of comments on gaf on what thy thought Switch would be.

 

[PlacidusaX]

I did and so did many others. Ppl assumed it would have all types of architecture. Plenty of comments on gaf on what thy thought Switch would be.

Switch?
I was referring to the next Nintendo device.
I frequent Gaf and never saw ridiculous claims of what it will be.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Ampere isn't a good mobile GPU tech. It never was. Perf/watt on RDNA2 was always better unless you enable RT which Nintendo probably isn't going to, in a 5-15W chip. Save for simpler stuff like reflections on Doom Eternal, which the Steam Deck can also do for example.

The RT cores wouldn't be there unless they were going to enable them, so I don't understand this line of thinking. Otherwise, you're telling me that Nintendo, a company known to cut anything that would add to costs, is just going to have RT cores on the GPU eating at their costs for shits and giggles?

It's using an old chip that finished development 3 years ago.

Then that should make the specs mentioned here even more believable, not less.

No, it definitely does not.

First off, there's no DLSS3 on the Switch 2 because (unless Nvidia's been lying) Ampere's optical flow accelerators don't support frame generation. There's DLSS2 and maybe ray reconstruction when raytracing is used and that's it.

It's a custom design. You can't say for certainty if it has a feature or not. This is like the people who refused to believe the PS5 had cache scrubbers because those weren't a standard feature of RDNA2 GPUs.

Why do people always do this with new hardware, where they are quick to downplay a certain new system by going to officially listed specifications, then pretending companies known for customizations somehow aren't customizing anything? It's even happened as recently as with the PS5 Pro. Let's not keep repeating that mistake.

Second:

The RTX 3070 with 22 TFLOPs / 245 Tensor OPs needs 1.4ms to run DLSS2 in Performance mode from 1080p to 4K output.
On the Switch 2's GPU which is at best, 5x slower (probably slower), it'll take 5.4ms out of a 16.6ms frametime (for 60FPS). That means the Switch 2 would need to be able to run Final Fantasy VII Remake at 1080p in 11.2ms frametime, which is a whopping 89.3 FPS. Which is not going to happen.

Okay so it doesn't upscale VII Remake to a 4K reconstructed target? Problem solved. Or it aims for 30 or 40 FPS instead of 60?

Or, they make other changes and cuts to hit the targets. This is the beauty of console software development.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

The RT cores wouldn't be there unless they were going to enable them, so I don't understand this line of thinking. Otherwise, you're telling me that Nintendo, a company known to cut anything that would add to costs, is just going to have RT cores on the GPU eating at their costs for shits and giggles?

The RT cores are there for the same reason there are RT cores in the Orin SoC for automotive, which were never used in anything.
RT cores are an integral part of Ampere's SM units and there would be little gain in doing low-level customization of Ampere's execution units for that. Especially when it's a cheap-ass company like Nintendo ordering a job from a very expensive company like Nvidia.

Though the RT cores could still be used for e.g. sound processing or some very simple reflections.

It's a custom design. You can't say for certainty if it has a feature or not.

I'm 95% certain. It's a feature that predates Ampere and the chip has been ready since 2021 (probably with the chip finalized in 2020), before Ada was out here.

Why do people always do this with new hardware, where they are quick to downplay a certain new system by going to officially listed specifications, then pretending companies known for customizations somehow aren't customizing anything? It's even happened as recently as with the PS5 Pro. Let's not keep repeating that mistake.

If anything, Nintendo solutions have been overestimated for over two decades, not downplayed.
Your mistake here is thinking Sony's (or Microsoft's) level of investment in hardware feature innovation will be followed by Nintendo. It won't.

 

[Gamernyc78]

The RT cores are there for the same reason there are RT cores in the Orin SoC for automotive, which were never used in anything.
RT cores are an integral part of Ampere's SM units and there would be little gain in doing low-level customization of Ampere's execution units for that. Especially when it's a cheap-ass company like Nintendo ordering a job from a very expensive company like Nvidia.

Though the RT cores could still be used for e.g. sound processing or some very simple reflections.




I'm 95% certain. It's a feature that predates Ampere and the chip has been ready since 2021 (probably with the chip finalized in 2020), before Ada was out here.




If anything, Nintendo solutions have been overestimated for over two decades, not downplayed.
Your mistake here is thinking Sony's (or Microsoft's) level of investment in hardware feature innovation will be followed by Nintendo. It won't.

I look forward to seeing at least what few things thy bring new.

 

[Eternal_Wings]

Nintendo fans are so lost.

Nintendo will never become the place for AAA Japanese games. Dragon Quest may be the exception

 

[TigerFang]

I do really hope it's around the performance of ps4 or more when it's docked.

Because I really want Nintendo to push their limits as software developers.

And I hope the third party support for it can grow as well, and we can see atleast a bit more graphically intense games.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I do really hope it's around the performance of ps4 or more when it's docked.

Because I really want Nintendo to push their limits as software developers.

And I hope the third party support for it can grow as well, and we can see atleast a bit more graphically intense games.

I want them to give me a reason to buy it besides you know the same old reasons.

 

[Eternal_Wings]

Imo these rumours about Switch 2 being powerful, are not in accordance to the reality. I csn remember when Nintendo fans where fantasizing about NX being as powerful or even more than PS4. But we k ow how Switch turned out to be. Drones can gloating about today's news but I don't see Switch 2 being as potent as the rumours claim.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Imo these rumours about Switch 2 being powerful, are not in accordance to the reality. I csn remember when Nintendo fans where fantasizing about NX being as powerful or even more than PS4. But we k ow how Switch turned out to be. Drones can gloating about today's news but I don't see Switch 2 being as potent as the rumours claim.

Nah it won't be powerful in regards to what say a Sony would have brought forward but remember it's been awhile since Switch and PS4 levels is expected at this point.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

At best, we're looking at half the compute performance of the RTX 2050 Mobile (Ampere 2048 shaders @1400MHz, 112GB/s just for GPU) which is Steam Deck levels of performance when docked.

Digital Foundry just released a video where they test the RTX 2050 Mobile downclocked to 750MHz. Like I estimated above, this is about half the original clock of 1400MHz which is what they estimate to be Switch 2's docked performance.

A couple of points:

1 - Save for VRAM-limited scenarios, this GPU is still substantially faster than whatever the Switch 2 will be able to do. The RTX2050 has 33% more compute units, probably twice the ROPs and exclusive access to its own GDDR6.
CPU performance is going to be worlds above the Switch 2 in this PC with a 28W Intel 1360P using 4x P cores doing >5GHz plus 8 E cores doing >3GHz, plus exclusive access to 88GB/s LPDDR5 and its own 18MB L3 cache. Compare that to 8x Cortex A78 designed to push less than 3W and share the memory access with the GPU.


2 - The test system is playing most modern PC games at 720p between 30 and 40FPS, sometimes below 30FPS even with everything set to low. Death Stranding does 50-60FPS at 720p and what seems to be a bit above PS4 settings.


3 - Don't count on DLSS2 performing any miracles on the Switch 2.



On a GPU of this performance level, enabling DLSS2 becomes a heavy burden. Running the same settings as above (Death Stranding 50-60FPS at 720p native), doing 720p upscaled to 1080p DLSS2 takes it down to 40-50FPS. Cyberpunk at 720p Medium does 35-50FPS but at 720p->1080p DLSS2 it goes down to 30-40FPS.
DLSS2 Performance (quarter resolution) takes even more performance. 540p -> 1080p DLSS2 runs barely any faster than 720p native.
@thicc_girls_are_teh_best 's suggestion that this will run games at 4K60 using DLSS is just unreallistic, obviously.




4 - As I wrote before, the only raytracing they could enable without absolutely killing performance was Raytraced Reflecions, which automatically brings down performance to 30FPS in Control. This is not the "raytracing console" everyone is expecting it to be.

Nah it won't be powerful in regards to what say a Sony would have brought forward but remember it's been awhile since Switch and PS4 levels is expected at this point.

There were leaked e-mails from Bobby Kotick stating the Switch 2 is expected to have performance around the XB1 and PS4 and that's what people should expect. Newer tech should give it a bit better results but not anything remotely approaching the Series S.

 

[Gamernyc78]

That'll be gd enough for mobile.

 

[voke]

Im so ready for some new hardware. give me xenoblade x2!!!

 

[JAHGamer]

Im so ready for some new hardware. give me xenoblade x2!!!

and xenoblade x remastered