UK Charts: The impact of its marketing deal with Xbox largely contributed to Metaphor ReFantazio's flop in the UK
- Thread starter Puff
- Start date
They are more like Jobs/Classes imo.
Jobs in Bravely Default.
Jobs in FFV / FFT.
Even Atlus called it as “Archetype Job System”.
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archetypes and persona are not completely different lol. They share a lot of similarities. MC awakens the powers. So do Persona users. You level them up and they gain new skills and get more powerful. Saying they are completely different is nonsense. This game plays exactly like Persona.
Its the life sim aspect, the length, All the side activities, the writing, character driven, the art etc. JRPGs are mostly boring to me but Persona and Persona style of games(metaphor) i like. I dont like SMT because its just action and combat based.How come you hate FF and the other Square JRPGs but then you turn around and you love the most weeb and niche jrpg of them all
Not sure if you understood the Archetype job system here…
Persona can only be used in the MC and it only get a limited set of new abilities when when level up… most of the abilities are the same accords Personas (same abilities exists in more than one Persona)… outside level up you get more abilities when you fusion these Personas too.
Archetypes are Jobs / Classes… they are unique and can be used by any character… it doesn’t level up only to get new abilities like Persona… you have a Skill Tree and so you can decide how that Job evolution in terms of skills, abilities, status, etc.
Like I said Archetype Job System has more in common with Job System in others JRPGs than Personas in Persona game.
Basically the developers abandoned the Persona/Monster collection, taming and fusion of SMT/Persona for a more tradicional RPG Job System.
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they are very similar. I didnt say their were no differences. Metaphor plays just like a persona game.
I'm not sure if you really want this theory to be true. Metaphor is a success even without PlayStation then and I guess Atlus can focus on PC and Switch 2 only for Persona 6
Why do you think LOLHow come you hate FF and the other Square JRPGs but then you turn around and you love the most weeb and niche jrpg of them all
There it is. Calling this "retaliation".
The poor innocent trillion dollar company that just bought third party publishers with the aim of removing multiplatform franchises that it already had anyway from the competition has to fight back, don't you know. It didn't turn out to be feasible, but the intent was obvious.
But Big Bad Sony are the ones who need to be taught a lesson. How dare they try to secure a few timed exclusives?
ahhhh old gamer. Clearly a old console warrior. Aint you a bit too old for this console warring brain rot? Clean your self up.
There's a weird seething happening at this game for some reason.
Why do you even care about some Xbox logos on the trailers? The game is out on PS5, selling well and will likely get a new installment.
PS fans do realize that they basically won the console wars, right?
Xbox need to shore up support from Japanese studios if they want to keep doing any kind of hardware business.
If Sony wants those marketing deals they will actually have to work to get them. Nothing comes for free.
FF's decline has largely been in how they completely reinvented the franchise every installment. The franchise's identity has been completely squandered because of this.
Atlus games are always about iteration and fine-tuning, so while the fanbase is smaller, it can be marketed to more easily because it's not as fragmented.
If I don't like SMT5, I automatically know not to even try or look at SMT6.
However, if I liked FF16, then how do I know if FF17 is to my liking? I simply have no way of knowing or feeling a guarantee of getting a great experience.
The other thing is look at how much more rapidly the games come out of Atlus vs Square. Square will take at least half a decade to bring out a new FF. Meanwhile it's almost assured we will see a new Persona mainline game before the end of this gen.
That's simply disastrous for the perception of the franchise. Younger gens have no clue about what the franchise is or whether it's good. Appealing to boomers with an entire FF7R trilogy was a disastrous decision in that regard.
Just make a single remake that's more simplified and true to the og story sjd gameplay and move on..
The JRPG Genre has many casual Pseudo-Fans, who only know Persona and/or Final Fantasy.
Metaphor is a new Franchise, and seeing only the Xbox Logo, could make them think it is a Xbox Game, and instantly forget about it.
Having a Game announced with only Xbox, is a death sentence.
That is the Problem.
FF17 might aswell be a FPS/Extraction-Shooter or something... you never know, at this point...
I think the deal was indeed a risk on Sega/Atlus's part, but there are some points that people are forgetting:
- The marketing deal didn't really diminish PC or PS4/5 sales that much. You go on Amazon US, and the physical edition of Metaphor PS5 is outselling the Xbox equivalent by more than 10:1. I'd imagine a similar sales split is happening in the digital realm of things too. Steam sales are also much healthier than even P3 Reload, which was a remake of a very-well known game that had a less restrictive Xbox marketing deal than this one did.
- I, as a Playstation/PC guy would MUCH rather Xbox bidding for marketing deals and timed-exclusivity than buying out publishers. One actually reduces risks for the studios and gives flavor to platforms, the other just kills the gaming job market and delivers minimal value to gamers.
The series has basically no identity, I don't really share the view that Sony exclusivity is the sole issue for Square to solve, there are clearly systemic issues there that need to be solved too.
The company is also just very sloppy in almost all aspects of its execution.
Just look at how FF16 was over-engineered to the point where it barely runs on PS5 (and would likely have no chance running on Switch 2 without severe compromises).
The exclusivity clause with Sony ends and they can release on PC, does Square take the opportunity to deliver something good? No. They release a very half-assed port for PC that doesn't manage to run well on the majority of PC builds. So that's an opportunity that's lost now too. The chart below is at Ultra 1080p.. You need a 4070/7800XT minimum to guarantee a 60fps minimum:
You would expect that now when PS5 Pro is here, Yoshi P would be part of the promotional push for the device (the other Square Enix team is already doing one for FF7 Rebirth, so it's not some company-wide mandate), releases a PS5 Pro patch and sells some more units, right? Wrong. Yoshi P just completely ignores it because he's hanging out with Phil Spencer now.
You would expect that Yoshi P hanging out with Phil and Sarah Bond now means an Xbox Series S|X port is in the works, right? Maybe sell some more units and get a gamepass deal? Wrong. He's talking up how much he wants the port to happen, but can't share a release date because he very clearly has no idea how to make it work for Series S (Series X/PS5 already dip to very low resolutions in perf mode, imagine how bad Series S version will be).
Keep in mind that throughout all the above, we're not talking story or level or gameplay loop design decisions, we're just talking about graphics vs performance decisions and weird marketing decisions that have made FF16 far less of a success than it could have been.
Square is an inept company that's kept alive by FF14 and some mobile games, I have no idea why people act like they are this great gem that Sony or Microsoft NEED to buy.
FF13 and 15 sold on reputation but didn't onboard new fans in 2 console cycles in addition the younger gen don't have the same nostalgia to 7's cast like the older gamers do, I do agree but there is nothing wrong with that. It garnered a lot of goodwill (in E3) for PS4 last gen. It solidified for J-RPG gamers to get a PS5 with these titles, since like Jim Ryan stated PS5 will be the home of FF this generation (and this triggers people apparently)
FF13 sold 9,5 (reported in 2017) and FF15 sold 10 million (reported in 2022) after 7 years both multiplat, do whatever you want with that info.
To be fair, Square has quite a lot of output this gen if you go by the releases (which a lot bombed like Forspoken & Harvestella).
2 new FF's (+DLC) this gen already and additional two with 7-3 and 9 remake based on the 30th anniversary in 2027 and Jensen's prophecy.
To go on Refantazio I would argue Phil did good with getting marketing cause otherwise PS would'v had both 90+ J-RPGs out this year marketed on their platform and who knows exclusivity. Atlus got a cheque for marketing alongside cash for P3 remake and a spin-off tactica on GP so they benefited.
I don't think PS was much bothered cause they promoted GB Fantasy Relink when P3 Reloaded dropped which also sold 1 million in its launch week and we all know Refantazio's base is on PS.
Would they had better marketing on PS sure, but if Xbox payed them 100+ million that would be dumb to refuse.
It would be hilarious with all this talk if it ends up that Jim Ryan made Persona 6 timed exclusive prior to PS5 launch.
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wish yall cared about the games as much as yall did the business around them.
With the floppage and overshipment, I will get Metaphor at the first physical sale. It will be soon
It's not specifically wrong, but Square should be greenlighting these projects with the proper budget.
Making FF7R a trilogy and then expecting it to sell record amounts when they're coming late, changing the story and changing the gameplay is just bad decision-making overall.
The big issue with 13 and 15 is they actively discouraged people from investing into the series. Especially 13, I still remember dropping that game less than two hours through, and then they made a trilogy out of it! Insanity!
I mean I'm playing Metaphor on PC and really liking it, but I didn't see an OT where ppl can talk about it.
There's nothing wrong with trying to understand and debate the industry that makes the games we love.