What year was more boundary pushing for gaming? 1996 or 2005?
- Thread starter RE4-City
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OP
OP
Ironic considering that video you keep posting like it's some holy grail of information has a lot of BS in it itself.
He claims Silent Hill 2 sold way less than Silent Hill 1 with no proof despite Silent Hill 2 becoming a greatest hits title faster than SH1.
Doesn't mention that Code Veronica on both Dreamcast and PS2 flopped horribly (What happened to Classic RE sells well?)
Completely overlooks that Capcom themselves credit RE4 to turning the whole company around:
(Page 7):
Also it's funny the guy who made that video didn't even bother going to Capcom's official platinum page for sales info on RE games and went to some random website, talk about lazy like all your criticisms of RE4.
But even more funny in that video the dude even claims RE4 make the series a much bigger seller than it was in the past so where does your claim of "The need for Action RE was bs" come from? RE4 is the first Resident Evil game to sell more than 10 million and RE4 Remake is by far the fastest selling game in franchise. The remasters of RE1 remake and RE0 remake launched on PS3, PS4, 360, XB1, Steam and both as of today (October 8th, 2024) sold under 4.5 million.
You really think Capcom would still be making big budget RE games if the series was still selling 5 million at best? Capcom would be laying off employees like crazy right now like Sony and Microsoft if one of their biggest franchises was only making those kind of numbers.
And lastly are you saying it is a lie that RE4 didn't sake up the industry?
RE4 is one of the reasons GOW 2018 felt comfortable shaking up the series: https://1428elm.com/2018/04/23/god-war-4-resident-evil-series/
Dead Space was suppose to be system shock 3 until RE4 came out: https://www.pcgamer.com/how-resident-evil-4-turned-system-shock-3-into-dead-space/
or are you saying I am lying for saying RE4 inspired other games to go with the over the shoulder camera?
Well tell that to Cliff Bleszinski: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/gdc-07-cliffy-b-disassembles-gears-mentions-sequel/1100-6167213/
or Bruce Stranley and Neil Drunkmann who disagree:
At least Gamecube did have any flops like Concord.
edit - and a remake of a GameCube Game (Paper Mario TTYD) is outperforming a remake of a PS4 game in 2024 (Until Dawn) which is a survival Horror game lol
Code Veronica (and CVX) sucked! Where was the RE2 character zapping, RE3 dynamic branching paths/dodge/quick turn. Oooo 3D environments? so fucking what? Id had to walk around RPD police desks in RE2 already. It was functionally gameplay-wise lesser than RE2/3 incremental improvements. It had backtracking galore. It had metal detector boxes. It had anime love interest Steve (buddy? Ive known you for about 10 mins, get off my dick. this plotline is stupid..). It had goofy Alfred Ashcroft. It had the starting blocks for anime super villain Wesker.. Not that that was much better than anime super villain oprea singer and train derailer from RE0. Just Wtf were they trying to do with RE story and mechanically after RE3?
Dont you dare paint all of "Classic RE" with the RE:CV/RE0 paintbrush.
Who really felt "safe" supporting RE on DC launch, after RE2 never came to Saturn? But Capcom did it again, shoving RE0-RE4 onto goddam NGC of all places. That's the crux of the "BS", the notion/narrative that Classic RE was tired. No, it wasnt, but you just released a few console-audience-displaced games on the wrong systems with wonky controllers, shiiiiiit storylines etc. But hell I did it. I bought a DC and GC for RE, and hated their implementations of RE.
For the record, RE4 even the original, was a "good game" but a shit RE game, and one of its major kudos, the "saving us all from tired Classic RE" is some capcom-lead marketing tagline that everyone just absorbed over time. I guess because it got shouted so loud, for so long. But it's still not fucking true.
OP
OP
Well the big games you listed in 1996 had their bricks laid the decade before as well
I, Robot on Atari would predate Mario 64 and Tomb Raider in platforming in a 3D space
Resident Evil was originally a remake of Sweet home on the Famicom and Alone in the Dark beat Resident Evil to the fixed camera horror game type.
The Over The Shoulder Aiming Camera, Rhythm Games, Online Gaming, HD Gaming, and Portable Gaming existed before 2005 but I don't think you can't deny 2005 was very boundary pushing
RE4 was a huge revolution in gaming
Guitar Hero was unbelievably huge at one point
While Xbox Live arcade existed on the original xbox in 2004 and stuff like Sega channel existed, The push the Xbox 360 game to indie devs can't be understated and Xbox Live in the 360 era set the standard for online gaming we have to this day.
Heck even Nintendo launched Nintendo Wifi for the Nintendo DS in Holiday 2005 with Mario Kart DS.
The Gameboy and DS existed before the PSP and the PSP even launched in Japan in December of 2004, But Grand Theft Auto Liberty City Stories running on a handheld showed that Handheld games could be Game of the Year Contenders like console games. Also as mentioned earlier, seeing a 3D Mario Kart game running on the DS was also mind blowing at the time as well. (Super Circuit in on the GBA was 2D.)
Then there's stuff like Shadow of The Colossus and Indigo prophecy that were really boundary breaking themselves, I know Ico was as well but the scale of the bosses in SOTC was something else.
That being said I have no issue with anyone choosing 1996 and Mario 64 was absolutely revolutionary itself and that doesn't even count the other 1996 games you listed as well.
How can you even even mention 1998 without this:
I was mentioning great records from 1973!
I want to say 96 because of Mario 64 but, ehh, I don't know. Dan Houser says that everyone borrows from Mario 64 but, like, Jumping Flash did a lot of the same things at the same time (technically released earlier but the games were not cribbing from each other, as far as we can tell.) The truth is that the N64 (and Playstation) being the first jump into 3D has always been partially myth and marketing speak. There've been 3D games before, just they were always limited and odd-balls, rather than the norm.
Meanwhile 2005 has a lot of things, including all the Nintendo handheld stuff that I am simply not an expert on, but the biggest one was the start of the fifth console generation. And lets be real here, the original Xbox could do most of what the launch 360 could with Xbox Live. Most of that gen's innovations trickled in over time due to the ability to update the online experience (or were in Wii Sports) and/or were already on PC. Whereas in '96 the biggest single advancement was Nintendo creating the modern joystick for use with Mario 64. So, yeah, I guess I still do go with 1996, but only because of the stick.
Meanwhile 2005 has a lot of things, including all the Nintendo handheld stuff that I am simply not an expert on, but the biggest one was the start of the fifth console generation. And lets be real here, the original Xbox could do most of what the launch 360 could with Xbox Live. Most of that gen's innovations trickled in over time due to the ability to update the online experience (or were in Wii Sports) and/or were already on PC. Whereas in '96 the biggest single advancement was Nintendo creating the modern joystick for use with Mario 64. So, yeah, I guess I still do go with 1996, but only because of the stick.
For sure, of course 2005 was a huge year and very comparable. Changed the industry and games itself. So many games just so much better and controlled better from that point on too. Not all but you know what I mean.
Might be pure personal feeling, nostalgia or how I remember it. 3D Mario was huge, that controller too lol. It was also the whole package as a teen, PS, N64, Saturn. It all felt so very new and different. But maybe people going through the same thing in 2005 was the same for them with online, better cleaner graphics and controls etc etc like you said.
I also weirdly add in Pokemon and a bunch of other games during this era into 1996, but thats just my brain
OP
OP
Well then as you can see Classic RE was indeed having problems if CV and RE0 couldn't satisfy people like you who preferred pre RE4 RE games.
If Code Veronica and RE0 isn't what you consider classic RE then it sounds like the devs at Capcom had problems expanding on making fixed camera games and would eventually need to have evolved at some point. Also like I said in my last post you replied to, the fact that no game pre RE4 was able to sell past 10 million would of been a problem down the line where budgets for these games have gone out of control like we see nowadays.
Anyway why stop there about this "classic RE" tape line your created for yourself.
RE1 didn't have partner zapping like RE2, so in my mind RE2 isn't a classic RE game like RE1. Heck RE3 is just as over the top as RE4.
(Nikolai jumping out of a 3rd story window to avoid a grenade explosion, Nikolai surviving a gas station explosion, Jill pushing Nemesis off a bridge like he's a chump, Jill taking take to tell Nemesis "You want Stars, I've give you Stars" before blowing him to bits.)
There is a reason Fixed Camera games are so hard to come by nowadays and if you hate capcom for deciding to leave them behind then go make some fixed camera games yourself and let the rest of us who are happy with the changes RE4 brought, enjoy them in peace man.
I swear your like a real life version of Nemesis who instead of stalking S.T.A.R.S. members, stalks people who are completely happy to leave the classic fixed camera angle RE games in the past.