Discussion WindowsCentral/Jez Corden: Bungie's Marathon is doomed

[James Sawyer Ford]

Has it never occurred to anyone how childish it is coming up with stupid names to call a group of people you hate as if you're prejudiced to them?

Marathon didn't do itself any favors by lifting NDA and not inviting nearly enough people for a good quality test. I had one friend get in, he played it for a couple of hours, but then he got into Arc Raiders, I'm hyped for Marathon but my friend was telling me Marathon doesn't even compare to Arc Raiders. If Marathon does suck, I'm still going to play it because of the worldbuilding.

It is not at all a "green rat" statement or "sony-hater" hivemind to say Marathon has competition and it's not mediocre competition. I never understood this pathetic tribalism, stop dismissing fair criticism of the game just because your beloved studio made it. I love Bungo no matter who owns it, but if Arc Raiders is doing better than Marathon, there is something wrong there because Marathon is AAA and Arc Raiders is literally made by the team who made The Finals.

A closed alpha isn’t intended to be a big gameplay test, they don’t need hundreds of thousands of people for player feedback, their dedicated servers aren’t even ready for that

Arc raiders is more finished, but it’s not a competitor to marathon, they’re very different games

 

[Exicide]

A closed alpha isn’t intended to be a big gameplay test, they don’t need hundreds of thousands of people for player feedback, their dedicated servers aren’t even ready for that

Arc raiders is more finished, but it’s not a competitor to marathon, they’re very different games

If it isn't supposed to be big, then tell me why they raised the NDA as if it was? Raising the NDA backfired on them, there are tons of people on each platform that think what is being offered is confusing.

For instance, when I see the animations, I think Apex Legends, but thank god it isn't that, it has a stamina system called heat, so it's seemingly grounded in a bit of realism, also has fall damage, good, but then I get to the characters again, and they all have abilities, yet again, making me think of Apex Legends, even one of them having an ult from that game. It doesn't pair well with an extraction shooter meant to be punishing, if you have the gameplay feeling like a slow Apex Legends without a zone, do you understand what I'm saying?

It's like they originally wanted a hero shooter (yet another) and they decided to turn it into an extraction hero shooter. It genuinely would have been better if they DIDN'T have abilities and it was a barebones character that you get made from Sekiguchi Genetics or Cyber AcMe like we see in the reveal (the shells being made after death) that you can flesh out over time.

I am still hyped for it, but it isn't anything to do with Sony Hate or Green Rats to say that Bungie does in fact have some competition that people are championing far more than Marathon was.

I kept seeing people say that marathon was generic, I wholeheartedly disagree that it is, and worst of all, it wasn't even people who are what you would call "green rats" alot of them were Sony fans.

Arc Raiders and Marathon are both extraction shooters, Arc Raiders being more like previous extraction shooters, where as Marathon, despite my hype, is vaguely an extraction shooter, it feels like it was tacked on at the last second.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

If it isn't supposed to be big, then tell me why they raised the NDA as if it was? Raising the NDA backfired on them, there are tons of people on each platform that think what is being offered is confusing.

For instance, when I see the animations, I think Apex Legends, but thank god it isn't that, it has a stamina system called heat, so it's seemingly grounded in a bit of realism, also has fall damage, good, but then I get to the characters again, and they all have abilities, yet again, making me think of Apex Legends, even one of them having an ult from that game. It doesn't pair well with an extraction shooter meant to be punishing, if you have the gameplay feeling like a slow Apex Legends without a zone, do you understand what I'm saying?

It's like they originally wanted a hero shooter (yet another) and they decided to turn it into an extraction hero shooter. It genuinely would have been better if they DIDN'T have abilities and it was a barebones character that you get made from Sekiguchi Genetics or Cyber AcMe like we see in the reveal (the shells being made after death) that you can flesh out over time.

I am still hyped for it, but it isn't anything to do with Sony Hate or Green Rats to say that Bungie does in fact have some competition that people are championing far more than Marathon was.

I kept seeing people say that marathon was generic, I wholeheartedly disagree that it is, and worst of all, it wasn't even people who are what you would call "green rats" alot of them were Sony fans.

Arc Raiders and Marathon are both extraction shooters, Arc Raiders being more like previous extraction shooters, where as Marathon, despite my hype, is vaguely an extraction shooter, it feels like it was tacked on at the last second.

They raised NDA because it was too large to be possible to contain or enforce

The game is designed around the class system, it would not be better off without it.

Marathon is a PvP focused extraction shooter in first person. Arc is a PvE focused extraction shooter with light PvP elements that is in third person.

They are very different games and as a result arc raiders doesn’t interest me at all.

 

[Exicide]

They raised NDA because it was too large to be possible to contain or enforce

The game is designed around the class system, it would not be better off without it.

Marathon is a PvP focused extraction shooter in first person. Arc is a PvE focused extraction shooter with light PvP elements that is in third person.

They are very different games and as a result arc raiders doesn’t interest me at all.

If it was really too large to contain or enforce you would have more people playing than what we could see. I think they didn't invite nearly enough people, so many people in that discord never got a code despite filling out the survey from the start.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

If it was really too large to contain or enforce you would have more people playing than what we could see. I think they didn't invite nearly enough people, so many people in that discord never got a code despite filling out the survey from the start.

There were thousands of players, that’s too large to contain

 

[ethomaz]

If it isn't supposed to be big, then tell me why they raised the NDA as if it was? Raising the NDA backfired on them, there are tons of people on each platform that think what is being offered is confusing.

Because influencers on the NDA Alpha started to talk about it including false things about it.
Bungie had to open to everybody to not let lies spread.

They did right in this point... with the NDA and influencers all talking whatever they wanted it should be a disaster.
With the open NDA any gamers could watch the how the Alpha was.

 

[ethomaz]

If it was really too large to contain or enforce you would have more people playing than what we could see. I think they didn't invite nearly enough people, so many people in that discord never got a code despite filling out the survey from the start.

Probably around 100-200k players got into the Alpha.

And only the discord queue wanting to enter in the Alpha was bigger than 500k.
Open beta will probably move around 2-3 million players.

 

[Exicide]

Because influencers on the NDA Alpha started to talk about it including false things about it.
Bungie had to open to everybody to not let lies spread.

They did right in this point... with the NDA and influencers all talking whatever they wanted it should be a disaster.
With the open NDA any gamers could watch the how the Alpha was.

the NDA was lifted before the Alpha even started. This doesn't make any sense. There was no NDA Alpha unless you're talking about influencer previews, but even then, Bungie would have actioned those talking about their preview.

 

[ethomaz]

the NDA was lifted before the Alpha even started. This doesn't make any sense. There was no NDA Alpha unless you're talking about influencer previews, but even then, Bungie would have actioned those talking about their preview.

The Alpha for public codes.
Influencers were already playing it for weeks... they started to play on April 4.

They choose to lift the NDA because these playing before the Alpha were talking about it and the impression was very negative.
So they choose to give open everything to gamers see what it was being talked instead to keep just listening to influencers being secretive with things (due NDA influencers where being selective to what they say... and that was being very negative).

 

[Exicide]

There were thousands of players, that’s too large to contain

That's just wrong though because thousands is not impossible to contain. Skate 4's closed test is contained fairly well, some things slip the cracks but even then that is literally just the way alphas and betas go. Dune: Awakening is also under NDA last I checked unless they lifted it by now. The decision to lift the NDA was made before the Alpha even started, they had the means to invite an amount they wanted to invite. They chose to lift it.

 

[Exicide]

The Alpha for public codes.
Influencers were already playing it for weeks... they started to play on April 4.

What content creators were invited that you saw talking about the game in any truly defamatory way? One that affected perception so much that they had to lift NDA? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

That's just wrong though because thousands is not impossible to contain. Skate 4's closed test is contained fairly well, some things slip the cracks but even then that is literally just the way alphas and betas go. Dune: Awakening is also under NDA last I checked unless they lifted it by now. The decision to lift the NDA was made before the Alpha even started, they had the means to invite an amount they wanted to invite. They chose to lift it.

I don’t know the exact reasons, I think containment was one.

I don’t see the harm in the making it open

 

[ethomaz]

What content creators were invited that you saw talking about the game in any truly defamatory way? One that affected perception so much that they had to lift NDA? That doesn't make any sense.

Paul Tassi and gang? lol

He even wrote a happy article about it...

After a somewhat middling gameplay reveal this past weekend that skewed pretty negative, Bungie announced a Closed Marathon Alpha for next week, April 23, but one taking the unusual step of being under an NDA, just five months from launch. That meant no videos, no streaming, no photos, even no public discussion about what was being played.

That seemed a bit silly, and Bungie seems to now agree. They’ve just announced that they’ve lifted the NDA on the Alpha, meaning all of the above is now viable. They did so with caveats, namely that what you’re seeing is still an unfinished, content-reduced version of the game, and the following will be not included ahead of launch.

The talk about the game between April 4 until the Alpha was pretty bad.
It get better when the Alpha started and become more divisive... some loved and others hated.
I mean The Alpha did better than anything before it to sell the game... at least now you have some previews from Alpha that loved it and can't stop to play instead everybody shitting on it before the Alpha.

Bungie’s ‘Marathon’ Reveal Trailer Has Me More Worried Than Excited - Could This Be ‘Concord’ All Over Again?

Despite its flashy trailer, I'm still feeling pretty mixed about Bungie's upcoming extraction shooter, 'Marathon'.

www.vice.com

I think Marathon looks fun, but is Bungie hiding the game's best feature?

According to some content creators, Bungie's Marathon will have raid-like puzzles and mechanics to do amidst PvP engagements.

www.windowscentral.com

‘Marathon’ Finally Had Its Big Reveal, and I Doubt Bungie Expected Such a Divisive Reaction

Finally, Bungie unveiled the highly anticipated 'Marathon', and players are surprisingly cold on the extraction shooter.

www.vice.com

Marathon Gameplay Trailer Underwater with Dislikes, Bungie Removes NDA from Closed Alpha | Geek Outpost

Marathon's gameplay trailer has left a sour taste for many and it seems clear that Bungie is losing confidence that their new IP can deliver.

geekoutpost.com

I will say more.
The Alpha were doing good that the new narrative had to get to use another Game Alpha to make it looks bad again.
Another game is is focused in PVE instead PVP.

WindowsCentral only wrote this article after the Act Riders Alpha narrative started.
After that everybody jumped but Act Riders is more complete when Bungie themselves said what was disabled in the Alpha including graphical features.

 

[Exicide]

Paul Tassi and gang? lol

He even wrote a happy article about it...





The talk about the game between April 4 until the Alpha was pretty bad.
It get better when the Alpha started and become more divisive... some loved and others hated.
I mean The Alpha did better than anything before it to sell the game... at least now you have some previews from Alpha that loved it and can't stop to play instead everybody shitting on it before the Alpha.

Bungie’s ‘Marathon’ Reveal Trailer Has Me More Worried Than Excited - Could This Be ‘Concord’ All Over Again?

Despite its flashy trailer, I'm still feeling pretty mixed about Bungie's upcoming extraction shooter, 'Marathon'.

www.vice.com

I think Marathon looks fun, but is Bungie hiding the game's best feature?

According to some content creators, Bungie's Marathon will have raid-like puzzles and mechanics to do amidst PvP engagements.

www.windowscentral.com

‘Marathon’ Finally Had Its Big Reveal, and I Doubt Bungie Expected Such a Divisive Reaction

Finally, Bungie unveiled the highly anticipated 'Marathon', and players are surprisingly cold on the extraction shooter.

www.vice.com

Marathon Gameplay Trailer Underwater with Dislikes, Bungie Removes NDA from Closed Alpha | Geek Outpost

Marathon's gameplay trailer has left a sour taste for many and it seems clear that Bungie is losing confidence that their new IP can deliver.

geekoutpost.com

I will say more.
The Alpha were doing good that the new narrative had to get to use another Game Alpha to make it looks bad again.
Another game is is focused in PVE instead PVP.

WindowsCentral only wrote this article after the Act Riders Alpha narrative started.
After that everybody jumped but Act Riders is more complete when Bungie themselves said what was disabled in the Alpha including graphical features.

My guy, those articles are all about the public gameplay reveal, none of those even talked about their experience under NDA tests. Every single one of them is saying that it looks good but off in an indescribable way. Several of them harken to the visuals of the Destiny franchise, knowing what is possible by them, compared to what was revealed. I don't understand why you think that journalists that are reporting on the public perception to the reveals means it is a new narrative to make it look bad when they are simply reporting on what the public is saying about the game. If you do not agree that the public perception seems to be mixed, then you are living a lie, that is exactly what all these articles are saying and that is exactly what I see online. If you actually have read these articles every single one of them seem to want marathon to succeed or are at the very least, piquing interest at hidden mechanics rumored to be in the game. What does the timing of their article have to do with anything whenever they didn't even mention Arc Raiders in that article?

 

[ethomaz]

My guy, those articles are all about the public gameplay reveal, none of those even talked about their experience under NDA tests. Every single one of them is saying that it looks good but off in an indescribable way. Several of them harken to the visuals of the Destiny franchise, knowing what is possible by them, compared to what was revealed. I don't understand why you think that journalists that are reporting on the public perception to the reveals means it is a new narrative to make it look bad when they are simply reporting on what the public is saying about the game. If you do not agree that the public perception seems to be mixed, then you are living a lie, that is exactly what all these articles are saying and that is exactly what I see online. If you actually have read these articles every single one of them seem to want marathon to succeed or are at the very least, piquing interest at hidden mechanics rumored to be in the game. What does the timing of their article have to do with anything whenever they didn't even mention Arc Raiders in that article?

That is what you got from what I wrote? lol

 

[Exicide]

That is what you got from what I wrote? lol

You didn't give me anything else to go off of mate. You just pointed to articles talking about the reveals when I was talking about content creators specifically breaking NDA to trash talk or make Marathon look bad. The whole point was the lifting of the NDA made no sense if you take into account how many people didn't get codes. Everyone loves talking about CCU on this forum, look at Marathon's. That is abysmally low, you can not sit there and tell me that was stress testing their NA servers. On top of that, this game was designed around team play. They said they would give whoever receives a code to priority codes to give to their friend. They stopped doing that rather quickly. So many people dropped off the game because they didn't want to keep playing with randoms who don't care.

In my honest opinion, it was handled horribly. Despite my hype of the game, I can be critical to the handling of the alpha. The beta will give you a better look at the game and hopefully have way more players than this pitiful Alpha. The discord is full of tons of people who didn't get anything. So much work just for a chance to get in that isn't even a guarantee for friends if you do get a code? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Never seen an alpha or beta for that matter be handled like that. Priority codes don't make any sense. Just give two codes to the one person who gets theirs.

 

[Vertigo]

Gimme a fucking break. Not even “online game of the year” Helldivers can outperform Destiny. The finals doesn’t do shit either and never did.

Non-threat to Bungie. Arc Raiders is comparatively jank and will never have the PvP appeal. If it’s lucky it will do Helldivers numbers… which is shit.

When 13 million sales ends up being 20k peak ccu … you ain’t shit

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Gimme a fucking break. Not even “online game of the year” Helldivers can outperform Destiny. The finals doesn’t do shit either and never did.

Non-threat to Bungie. Arc Raiders is comparatively jank and will never have the PvP appeal. If it’s lucky it will do Helldivers numbers… which is shit.

When 13 million sales ends up being 20k peak ccu … you ain’t shit

That's the thing

Arc Raiders will be quickly forgotten about, while Marathon will actually have some legs thanks to it being an actual first person PvP game with real end game progression.

I don't see people taking Arc Raiders very seriously, while there will be a lot of the community that takes Marathon extremely seriously.

Helldivers was a success though, just in more of a "single player" type success where it was mostly frontloaded. Legs are okay but not great.

 

[Vertigo]

That's the thing

Arc Raiders will be quickly forgotten about, while Marathon will actually have some legs thanks to it being an actual first person PvP game with real end game progression.

I don't see people taking Arc Raiders very seriously, while there will be a lot of the community that takes Marathon extremely seriously.

Helldivers was a success though, just in more of a "single player" type success where it was mostly frontloaded. Legs are okay but not great.

I only point out Helldivers to clarify the complete nonsense hottakes.

Anyone remember First Descandant after the first month?

 

[Exicide]

I only point out Helldivers to clarify the complete nonsense hottakes.

Anyone remember First Descandant after the first month?

First Descendant was a terrible fucking game that was only championed by gooners because they were angry about "ugly women" in games.

Also, i don't understand what you're yapping about Helldivers 2 for considering over half the sales are on PC (source)