Epic explains why it hasn't sued Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft over 30% fee

[Gamernyc78]

Epic explains why it hasn't sued Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft over 30% fee | Epic vs Google

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During the ongoing Epic vs Google jury trial in San Francisco on Friday, The Verge reported the court heard a taped deposition from Epic's chief financial officer Randy Gelber explaining why the company is only targeting mobile platform holders.

"We believe those [consoles] to be competitive markets and we believe that the fee, their cost structure, is entirely different than a mobile app store," Gelber said in a recording from September 2022.

Gelber was then pressed on how the cost structure for Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft is different from that of Google and Apple.

Well, they subsidize hardware, so they sell their hardware, as far as I can tell from widely published reports, at a loss, and so the fee needs to cover that," he said.

"Mobile apps are typically low in size and so their costs are higher, and I think their customer service costs are higher because people don’t call Google about apps, they call the developer generally."

Gelber did not appear to address the fact that Apple also sell its own hardware, or that the console platform holders also have closed ecosystems that do not allow third-party stores.

Elsewhere in the proceedings, Google revealed how much it believes Epic owes in damages with the Android firm's selected economist, Dr. Gregory Leonard, stating it was close to $400,000.

According to Leonard, Epic Games received $1,329,770 in revenue during the brief period that Fortnite's hotfix enabled direct payments, before the game was pulled from the store. He calculated that Google is owed 30% of this, or $398,931, as reported by The Verge.

 

[KiryuRealty]

And this unwillingness to fight the console stores is a big part of why Epic lost the lawsuit against Apple.

Screaming that one closed ecosystem is not the same as another is a spurious argument. Either you’re ok with paying a platform holder a cut, or you aren’t. From a business perspective, if you oppose software restrictions in one place, you oppose them globally. Picking and choosing just shows hypocrisy.

 

[Yurinka]

Gelber did not appear to address the fact that Apple also sell its own hardware, or that the console platform holders also have closed ecosystems that do not allow third-party stores.

He indirectly did it. He meant that console makers sell their consoles normally at a loss and compensate it with profits from the 30% cut of 3rd party games of their stores, because console platform holders also handle things like the related customer support.

Apple instead sell their hardware products highly overpriced with a big profit margin and generally in mobile it's dev and not the platform holder who handles the customer support, so Epic considers that the mobile platform holders don't need to get a cut that high.

 

[KiryuRealty]

He indirectly did it. He meant that console makers sell their consoles normally at a loss and compensate it with profits from the 30% cut of 3rd party games of their stores, because console platform holders also handle things like the related customer support.

Apple instead sell their hardware products highly overpriced with a big profit margin and generally in mobile it's dev and not the platform holder who handles the customer support, so Epic considers that the mobile platform holders don't need to get a cut that high.

The reasoning Epic uses is full of doublespeak and logic holes.

There’s no difference.

A closed market is a closed market.

 

[flaccidsnake]

At this point I hope Epic dissolves entirely.

 

[Would_you_kindly]

The reasoning Epic uses is full of doublespeak and logic holes.

There’s no difference.

A closed market is a closed market.

It's very sound reasoning , apple wouldn't pull out of the mobile market because of it , they make plenty of profit on the overpriced hardware , console manufacturers would have a choice between raising there prices significantly to the point where you might aswell just buy an expensive gaming pc or just leaving the market entirely since they subsidize the hardware cost & make the real money from the cut they get on the software

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

He indirectly did it. He meant that console makers sell their consoles normally at a loss and compensate it with profits from the 30% cut of 3rd party games of their stores, because console platform holders also handle things like the related customer support.

Nintendo doesn't

So, if they aren't suing Nintendo, yet are suing Apple (or tried to sue them, anyway), they'd need a better reason why they make the differentiation. And that reason exists: consoles are purpose-specific gaming devices not built for general computing/productivity and not lifestyle requirements (or even the only things needed to access games). Smartphones are not purpose-built specifically for video games and are requirements for functioning in a modern society.

That would be part of such rationale, anyway.

 

[flaccidsnake]

He indirectly did it. He meant that console makers sell their consoles normally at a loss and compensate it with profits from the 30% cut of 3rd party games of their stores, because console platform holders also handle things like the related customer support.

Apple instead sell their hardware products highly overpriced with a big profit margin and generally in mobile it's dev and not the platform holder who handles the customer support, so Epic considers that the mobile platform holders don't need to get a cut that high.

The entire development of Steam is at a loss

 

[Zzero]

Last I checked Nintendo didn't actually sell at a loss.

But he can't exactly go out and say the truth, that Apple and Google's weaker cases could be used as the crack in the dam. Anyways, I hate Apple and Google but still hope they wreck Epic's shit.

 

[Deleted member 223]

The entire development of Steam is at a loss

It's a middle-man operation with the hardware off-loaded to others. It's as lean and bare-minimum as it gets.... well Windows Store, or whatever it's today is even more bare-minimum but still.

Apple was the wrong horse to bark on. Apple makes the hardware. Got no problem however with heat been thrown at free middle-man leeches like Steam, Google's Play Store and MS (on PC). Epic Game Store as well btw... lowering their cut is still just a race to the bottom differentiation play, even if I do sympathize with the idea of spanking the bigger industry leeches based on market-share considerations.

Let the corpo wars continue.

 

[flaccidsnake]

It's a middle-man operation with the hardware off-loaded to others. It's as bare-minimum as it gets.... well Windows Store, or whatever it's today is even more bare-minimum but still.

Congrats, this is you now:

 

[Deleted member 223]

Congrats, this is you now:

Your tolerance meter is bursting. I'll be here for the eventual explosion as you grow more irritated.

I can summarize it for others in advance: "PC da best platform, Steam da best, light years ahead of everyone, fuck you all console peasants in this shitty forum".

It's coming, like the others before you. Same sickness, same psychology. You can try to hold it down but eventually, release will be upon us.

 

[KiryuRealty]

Last I checked Nintendo didn't actually sell at a loss.

But he can't exactly go out and say the truth, that Apple and Google's weaker cases could be used as the crack in the dam. Anyways, I hate Apple and Google but still hope they wreck Appl's shit.

Apple crushed Epic in court.

The fact that makes you unhappy is making my day.

 

[Zzero]

Apple crushed Epic in court.

The fact that makes you unhappy is making my day.

I think you misunderstood my post.

 

[Loy310]

Everyone with a brain should know this, but bots and their fantasy Regulators dont for some reason. Opening up console-publisher stores will usher in the era of $1000 consoles. At that point you might as well drop the console and buy a PC.

 

[Dr Bass]

The reasoning Epic uses is full of doublespeak and logic holes.

There’s no difference.

A closed market is a closed market.

The importance and ubiquity of mobile devices (i.e. the majority of the world’s citizens primary computer) isn’t even close to the same category as a console, which is a toy.

Big difference IMO. You can’t have two companies with complete power over the world’s digital commerce in that fashion.

By contrast no one cares about consoles. They are frivolous unnecessary devices. It’s just not the same thing at all.

 

[flaccidsnake]

Everyone with a brain should know this, but bots and their fantasy Regulators dont for some reason. Opening up console-publisher stores will usher in the era of $1000 consoles. At that point you might as well drop the console and buy a PC.

A PC with the seamless user interface of a Playstation would be the ideal way to play videogames in all seriousness. You can build a PC smaller and sleeker than PS5 with off the shelf parts for more not much more money. Easily less than $1k. OEMs doing custom designs with laptop parts could be very innovative.

Also the handheld PCs are coming down. Lenovo and ASUS don't have the Steam Store revenue, and they're still making compelling gaming devices for around $600.

 

[Dr Bass]

A PC with the seamless user interface of a Playstation would be the ideal way to play videogames in all seriousness. You can build a PC smaller and sleeker than PS5 with off the shelf parts for more not much more money. Easily less than $1k. OEMs doing custom designs with laptop parts could be very innovative.

Also the handheld PCs are coming down. Lenovo and ASUS don't have the Steam Store revenue, and they're still making compelling gaming devices for around $600.

I have no desire to ever have another windows based pc ever again. I also don’t waste time building computers anymore. Consoles will always be superior in that sense.

So nah, not the ideal way to play imo.

 

[Yurinka]

The entire development of Steam is at a loss

Maybe it was before release or during its first years.

But Steam now produces Valve insane amounts of profits. Generates way more revenue than PlayStation and it's only a PC digital store and game launcher with no physical hardware or games manufacturing and distribution costs required on Valve's side.

A PC with the seamless user interface of a Playstation would be the ideal way to play videogames in all seriousness. You can build a PC smaller and sleeker than PS5 with off the shelf parts for more not much more money. Easily less than $1k. OEMs doing custom designs with laptop parts could be very innovative.

Also the handheld PCs are coming down. Lenovo and ASUS don't have the Steam Store revenue, and they're still making compelling gaming devices for around $600.

You can even build your own "console like" PC to plug it to the tv, Steam has a dedicated console-like UI mode. I also think that handheld PC submarket will grow considerably in the next few years once costs go down to have handhelds with horsepower similar to Steamdeck for $299-$399, maybe with slightly better weight and battery time and once the catalog of Steam Deck ready games keep increasing.

 

[flaccidsnake]

I have no desire to ever have another windows based pc ever again. I also don’t waste time building computers anymore. Consoles will always be superior in that sense.

So nah, not the ideal way to play imo.

Not talking about windows, but if windows ever came close to PS5's UI, it would be in the conversation. MS could've made those moves at any time.