Research: Which are the first games they greenlighted? Did they greenlight these GaaS? SURPRISING RESULTS!

[Yurinka]

When replying other related thread I thought it would be a good idea to research more or less when where greenlighted the recent and announced Sony GaaS, and also tried to find what were the known first party games greenlighted by Jim Ryan and Hermen.

I found that the results may be surprising for many (including the fake news folks at Bloomberg and Forbes) and that deserved a new thread.

Jim became CEO in April 2019 and Hermen in November 2019.

List of Sony GaaS games released/to be released since then but already greenlighted before they became CEO, as it's the case of TLOP1 or the idea of making the PC efforts:

• Dreams (known to be in delopment years before they became CEO)
• Destruction All Stars (released February 2021, must have been greenlighted earlier)
• Gran Turismo 7 (started after Gran Turismo Sport launch, which also is GaaS)
• Firewall Ultra (started after Firewall Zero Hour launch)
• Convallaria (if it's a GaaS -I think won't-, its first video was published March 2019)
• Helldivers 2 (started in 2015/2016 after Helldivers 1 launch)
• Concord (studio founded in 2018)
• Horizon Online (its game director Simon Larouche working on it since Feb. 2018 according to his LinkedIn)
• London Studio new IP (their previous game was released in May 2019 and before that they had 2 teams)
• Destiny 2 (already released when acquired)
• Marathon (already in development when acquired)
• Matter/new Bungie IP (already in development when acquired)

List of the first 1st party known games greenlighted in the Jim and Hermen era:

• Death Stranding 2 (started after DS1 launch)
• Ballistic Moon's (former Until Dawn/Supermassive devs) first game (studio founded in April 2019)
• New open world IP by Bend, which was pitched by Bend after Days Gone (Sony/PS Studios/Jim/Hermen approved the first pitch that Bend sent them after Days Gone 1, which was this new IP, they never received a Days Gone 2 pitch because the Bend studio boss blocked the directors from sending it to Sony)
• Ghost of Tsushima 2 (started after GoT1 launch)
• Unannounced ND game(s) under development, at least one of them SP (started after TLOU2 launch, not sure when)
• Wolverine (started after Morales launch)
• Team Asobi's next game (a 3d action platformer with humor bigger than the Astros) and multiple prototypes)
• Deviation's game (studio founded in 2020)
• Housemarque next game (started after Returnal release)
• Fairgame$ (even if they started to work on it at Google, maybe started production at Sony)
• Horizon 3 (pretty likely started after HFW release)
• Insomniac game with MP (pretty likely started after Rift Apart)
• Next GoW, set in a new mythology (started after GoWR)

Games that aren't clear when they started:

• Spider-Man 2 (started after Spider-Man 1, we don't know exactly when but if just after release, which is likely, wouldn't be greenlighted by them)
• TLOU Online (branched out from TLOU2 to become a standalone game in 2019, not sure if before or after Jim and Hermen became CEO)
• Horizon CoM (Guerrilla and Firesprite have more than two teams working at the same time since who knows when)
• Unannounced projects by Firesprite+Fabrik, since they have multiple games under development at the same time but we don't know since when and don't even know the amount of games under development that they have

I may have forgotten some game, feel free to remind it if it's the case and I'll add it to the OP.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

So if I'm reading this right then...

• Death Stranding 2 (started after DS1 launch)

Might release in 2024, but could slip into 2025 we'll see

• New open world IP by Bend, which was pitched by Bend after Days Gone (Sony/PS Studios/Jim/Hermen approved the first pitch that Bend sent them after Days Gone 1, which was this new IP, they never received a Days Gone 2 pitch because the Bend studio boss blocked the directors from sending it to Sony)

If AAA and larger in scope than DS2, 2025 at the earliest

• Ghost of Tsushima 2 (started after GoT1 launch)

2026 at earliest

• Unannounced ND game(s) under development, at least one of them SP (started after TLOU2 launch, not sure when)

Well TLOU3 is definitely post-2026 if it just recently started development. The new IP could be next year or 2025, who knows.

• Wolverine (started after Morales launch)

Get the feeling this will slip 2024 and enter 2025

• Team Asobi's next game (a 3d action platformer with humor bigger than the Astros) and multiple prototypes)

Could be 2024, could also be 2025. 50/50

• Deviation's game (studio founded in 2020)

Probably still a ways off and also GaaS IIRC

• Housemarque next game (started after Returnal release)

If going to be even bigger than Returnal, and unless they expand in size significantly, 2027 at earliest

• Fairgame$ (even if they started to work on it at Google, maybe started production at Sony)

GaaS

• Horizon 3 (pretty likely started after HFW release)

2028 at earliest and probably either cross-gen game or PS6 exclusive

• Insomniac game with MP (pretty likely started after Rift Apart)

2025 at earliest, could be 2026

• Next GoW, set in a new mythology (started after GoWR)

2027 at earliest, could be 2028 tho depending on how ambitious it is.

So basically 1P-wise nothing is really a lock for 2024 outside of Helldivers 2 and possibly Factions 2 (if it was a soft soft reboot). Both of which, are GaaS (or at least quasi-GaaS in Helldivers 2's case), 2025? Could be up to 5 games (DS2, Wolverine, Astrobot game, Insominac MP game, ND new IP), make that six with Factions 2. But there is still a good chance Factions 2, DS2 and Wolverine hit 2024.

2026 likely would have just two games (from what you listed), one of those being Insomniac's MP game delayed out of 2025 into 2026. So that's one GaaS, one traditional AAA game. 2027 could have a bit more between next GOW, Housemarque's game, and TLOU3, but GOW could slip into 2028. The one game out of that list that definitely feels will be 2028 is Horizon 3.

We can see the mix of traditional to GaaS titles in that (I did leave out some of the GaaS titles like Fairgame$ and Concord; they can release whenever), but I think most of the focus from a lot of us here would be on the non-GaaS titles. But there is something here at play not mentioned: the cadence of PC ports of previous game releases. IMO, if they (Sony) stick with the 2 year (or even less, you never know) porting window to PC, it will damage long-term value proposition of the console and make things very difficult for PS6 out of the gate unless that system has one hell of an innovative hardware hook where the hardware alone adds insane value proposition.

And, no, just "moah powah" will not do it, that is not the answer. PS+ isn't the answer, either, but that isn't hardware-focused. I also didn't focus on 3P games we know are being developed with Sony assisting in dev because, well, your list didn't mention them, either. Although, yes, those do help add value proposition to the console, jusdt depends on what mix are traditional vs. GaaS. PC availability can still hurt console value proposition though depending on timing of availability, I feel we've kind of seen this play out with Final Fantasy XVI (in their case, mentioning the PC version right off the bat in marketing for the game on PS5, which was very stupid).

 

[Danja]

Haven Studio pitched 3 games to Sony. Sony liked all 3 and Haven chose to do FairGame$.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

sorry.. but what is surprising about it?.

lists like these are even worse than the lists-wars commonly use by warriors to show how many (more than the competition) and diverse of a portfolio of games a console will have.

We know that's pretty dumb strategy when games get delayed, cancelled, rebooted or end up being dog shit.

The only thing we kow is that play station is investing more or less the same amount of money in GaaS as they do in Single Player games, right?

We should be aware of what Shawn Layden and Jhon Kodera said to have an idea of what PlayStation/Sony's future intentions have been all along:

This is what Jim said when he took the job:

I’ve seen the PlayStation business grow and change massively since the very early days,” Ryan said in a statement, “and I hope to be able to put that experience to good use in reinforcing the foundations of the Game & Network Service business, and in evolving the entertainment that PlayStation offers to its engaged and passionate community.
meaning= Jim is following what Sony needs from PlayStation just like Shawn and Kodera did. (their job is to accomplish that).

change massively:  
Releasing games on PC/ cloud gaming?

reinforcing... Game & Network Service business:​

Acquisitions/PS+/GaaS?
 
evolving the entertainment that PlayStation offers:
TV shows and movies?
  

 Games like:
Dust 514
DriveClub
TLoU MP/Uncharted MP
GTSport/7
MLB
Fornite Car combat

all of those were/are "live games" (GaaS-MTXs/season pass).

So Jim ain't doing anything to wrong. PlayStation doesn't exists in a vacuum and they are also at the mercy of the economic pressures of this industry.


 

 

[Zzero]

sorry.. but what is surprising about it?.

lists like these are even worse than the lists-wars commonly use by warriors to show how many (more than the competition) and diverse of a portfolio of games a console will have.

We know that's pretty dumb strategy when games get delayed, cancelled, rebooted or end up being dog shit.

The only thing we kow is that play station is investing more or less the same amount of money in GaaS as they do in Single Player games, right?

We should be aware of what Shawn Layden and Jhon Kodera said to have an idea of what PlayStation/Sony's future intentions have been all along:

This is what Jim said when he took the job:

I’ve seen the PlayStation business grow and change massively since the very early days,” Ryan said in a statement, “and I hope to be able to put that experience to good use in reinforcing the foundations of the Game & Network Service business, and in evolving the entertainment that PlayStation offers to its engaged and passionate community.
meaning= Jim is following what Sony needs from PlayStation just like Shawn and Kodera did. (their job is to accomplish that).

change massively:  
Releasing games on PC/ cloud gaming?

reinforcing... Game & Network Service business:​

Acquisitions/PS+/GaaS?
 
evolving the entertainment that PlayStation offers:
TV shows and movies?
  

 Games like:
Dust 514
DriveClub
TLoU MP/Uncharted MP
GTSport/7
MLB
Fornite Car combat

all of those were/are "live games" (GaaS-MTXs/season pass).

So Jim ain't doing anything to wrong. PlayStation doesn't exists in a vacuum and they are also at the mercy of the economic pressures of this industry.


 

As far as I can tell, Sony didn't actually pay anything for Dust, MS refused to allow data to leave the Xbox ecosystem which would have meant no Eve Online interaction and definitely no interaction with the PSN version. Contesting planets "for real" in a single universe was a key part of the game and thus no Xbox version. PC was cut out, seemingly arbitrarily, on principle since CCP wanted to make a "console game." And game balance between PC and consoles was a lot harder too back then, nobody'd gotten it right yet.

Also, not really relevant to the topic at hand but CCP Shanghai was a dog shit developer, seemingly run by a scam artist, that did nothing but hold real CCP and Eve Online back.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

As far as I can tell, Sony didn't actually pay anything for Dust

, MS refused to allow data to leave the Xbox ecosystem which would have meant no Eve Online interaction and definitely no interaction with the PSN version. Contesting planets "for real" in a single universe was a key part of the game and thus no Xbox version. PC was cut out, seemingly arbitrarily, on principle since CCP wanted to make a "console game." And game balance between PC and consoles was a lot harder too back then, nobody'd gotten it right yet.

Also, not really relevant to the topic at hand but CCP Shanghai was a dog shit developer, seemingly run by a scam artist, that did nothing but hold real CCP and Eve Online back.

yeah. my point was about that weird aspect between PC and Console players. Meaning, that Play Station was fine allowing something that back then felt quite innovative.

even the first helldivers had some knd of weird meta mechanic about the war or something like that or TLoU MP and the facebook integration.

 

 

[anonpuffs]

When replying other related thread I thought it would be a good idea to research more or less when where greenlighted the recent and announced Sony GaaS, and also tried to find what were the known first party games greenlighted by Jim Ryan and Hermen.

I found that the results may be surprising for many (including the fake news folks at Bloomberg and Forbes) and that deserved a new thread.

Jim became CEO in April 2019 and Hermen in November 2019.

List of Sony GaaS games released/to be released since then but already greenlighted before they became CEO, as it's the case of TLOP1 or the idea of making the PC efforts:

• Dreams (known to be in delopment years before they became CEO)
• Destruction All Stars (released February 2021, must have been greenlighted earlier)
• Gran Turismo 7 (started after Gran Turismo Sport launch, which also is GaaS)
• Firewall Ultra (started after Firewall Zero Hour launch)
• Convallaria (if it's a GaaS -I think won't-, its first video was published March 2019)
• Helldivers 2 (started in 2015/2016 after Helldivers 1 launch)
• Concord (studio founded in 2018)
• Horizon Online (its game director Simon Larouche working on it since Feb. 2018 according to his LinkedIn)
• London Studio new IP (their previous game was released in May 2019 and before that they had 2 teams)
• Destiny 2 (already released when acquired)
• Marathon (already in development when acquired)
• Matter/new Bungie IP (already in development when acquired)

List of the first 1st party known games greenlighted in the Jim and Hermen era:

• Death Stranding 2 (started after DS1 launch)
• New open world IP by Bend, which was pitched by Bend after Days Gone (Sony/PS Studios/Jim/Hermen approved the first pitch that Bend sent them after Days Gone 1, which was this new IP, they never received a Days Gone 2 pitch because the Bend studio boss blocked the directors from sending it to Sony)
• Ghost of Tsushima 2 (started after GoT1 launch)
• Unannounced ND game(s) under development, at least one of them SP (started after TLOU2 launch, not sure when)
• Wolverine (started after Morales launch)
• Team Asobi's next game (a 3d action platformer with humor bigger than the Astros) and multiple prototypes)
• Deviation's game (studio founded in 2020)
• Housemarque next game (started after Returnal release)
• Fairgame$ (even if they started to work on it at Google, maybe started production at Sony)
• Horizon 3 (pretty likely started after HFW release)
• Insomniac game with MP (pretty likely started after Rift Apart)
• Next GoW, set in a new mythology (started after GoWR)

Games that aren't clear when they started:

• Spider-Man 2 (started after Spider-Man 1, we don't know exactly when but if just after release, which is likely, wouldn't be greenlighted by them)
• TLOU Online (branched out from TLOU2 to become a standalone game in 2019, not sure if before or after Jim and Hermen became CEO)
• Horizon CoM (Guerrilla and Firesprite have more than two teams working at the same time since who knows when)
• Unannounced projects by Firesprite+Fabrik, since they have multiple games under development at the same time but we don't know since when and don't even know the amount of games under development that they have

I may have forgotten some game, feel free to remind it if it's the case and I'll add it to the OP.

Deviation's game is cancelled isn't it?

 

[Yurinka]

Deviation's game is cancelled isn't it?

Can you find any announcement from Sony or Deviation announcing that it has been cancelled? No, because it doesn't exist.

This means that oficially the game has not been cancelled and continues under development.

Some people from the studio were fired at the same time in May, and an external outsourcing studio (external to Sony and Deviation) who worked on the game also got firings and was shut down. We also have the fact that -can't remember exact number- the number but I think it was 12 or 14 Deviation people who via Twitter or LinkedIn we found were fired.

According to VGC 'sources' 90 people were fired. Deviation were around 100 people. If they would have lost 90 people the studio would be shut down and isn't the case.

So -if the 90 people number is correct and not a made up number- maybe it means that probably they made some big mess missing some key milestone and had to remake some big part of the game. So decided to replace some people on charge of that, affecting multiple studios working on the game.

So maybe they fired some people from Deviation (who knows, maybe between one and three dozen people) and also more people from different support or outsourcing teams. Like the whole staff of the outsourcing who did stop working with them and had to shut down maybe because couldn't find other customer on time.

I think around that time there was also a guy or two from Sony Visual Arts who also said was fired, so probably a few also working there were fired too. And maybe some support team more got affected (remember that in big AAA teams may work 2000-3000 or even more people, so 90 would be a small percentage).

As of now there are 91 people working on Deviation according to their LinkedIn (were 100 last year) and they have an open job position. Deviation doesn't seem to have lost 90 people or to have shut down. I also don't remember from Deviation or Sony announcing important layoffs.

 

[Zzero]

yeah. my point was about that weird aspect between PC and Console players. Meaning, that Play Station was fine allowing something that back then felt quite innovative.

even the first helldivers had some knd of weird meta mechanic about the war or something like that or TLoU MP and the facebook integration.

 

Sony was open to it at the time because PSN was "behind" XBL, I don't think it said anything about them as a company specifically other than that they were fighting to improve PSN's reputation. Things switched around early in the next gen when the One was flopping and had a much shittier online experience (Sony started preventing crossplay while Microsoft started allowing it.) And now, of course, balance has been achieved due to the demands of third parties and their GaaS ecosystems.

 

[Airbus]

What statement are you trying to imply with these list

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Sony was open to it at the time because PSN was "behind" XBL, I don't think it said anything about them as a company specifically other than that they were fighting to improve PSN's reputation. Things switched around early in the next gen when the One was flopping and had a much shittier online experience (Sony started preventing crossplay while Microsoft started allowing it.) And now, of course, balance has been achieved due to the demands of third parties and their GaaS ecosystems.

you are getting caught in one specific thing of something much bigger that i wrote.
 
Dust
DriveClub
TLoU MP/Uncharted MP
GTSport/7
MLB
Fornite Car combat

Those game are GaaS/"live"/MTXs/season pass in one way or another.

what is the point? That this idea of sony GaaS initiative is coming from nowhere, that Jim Ryan is to blame for that, is just misinformed and is not taking into account the past.

this is also why I quote this from jim:

I’ve seen the PlayStation business grow and change massively since the very early days,” Ryan said in a statement, “and I hope to be able to put that experience to good use in reinforcing the foundations of the Game & Network Service business, and in evolving the entertainment that PlayStation offers to its engaged and passionate community.

if you read Layden's and Kodera's interviews you will find a throughline between the 3 executives.

You could use the Dust game as something ahead of the times...that weird connection between Eve Online on PC and Dust 514 on console is kind of the metaverse was supposed to be all about.

Even Jim Ryan acknowledged the existence of Play Station Home...again, Sony is not a stranger to the types of games and experiences that ended up evolving to what today we call "live, GaaS" and shit like that.

Play Station Home = VR Chat for example.

or MAG or SOCOM.

The thing is that the vast majority of people dont realize that video game making at the levels of these big companies is driven by a lot research on player's behavior and psychology.

What Jim Ryan is doing with that massive investment in GaaS is to develop the necessary infrastructure to "institutionalize" the GaaS pipeline. With the purpose of being more efficient and having more chances of success. (just like they did with their template of Cinematic Single Player games pipeline)

 

[Darth Vader]

This guy HAS to want a job at PlayStation. Either that or he has a massive fetiche with Jim Ryan.

 

[Darth Vader]

Can you find any announcement from Sony or Deviation announcing that it has been cancelled? No, because it doesn't exist.

The guy that keeps pulling shit out of his ass, refuses to believe sources when provided (Nvidia leak), then asks this. No shame whatsoever

 

[Kokoloko]

Deviation's game is cancelled isn't it?

No, its as cancelled as the people who say Factions 2 is cancelled because some journalist says its in trouble.. It could be but no1 knows at this point

 

[Vertigo]

Factions 2 is not cancelled. Factions is being retooled into a “boxed” release. Service aspirations may have been kneecapped entirely. This is not a bad move and might be a better fit.

From what we know the Deviation games title in development is halted/cancelled and probably Sony’s contract with them. I mean… is that bad? Games are cancelled all the time and when things aren’t going as planned it may be wise to terminate. Why end up with Redfall?

All online games can be perceived as GaaS and in some way most chase reoccurring revenues. Does not mean they need battle passes and 4 seasons a year.

 

[Killer_Sakoman]

Factions 2 is not cancelled. Factions is being retooled into a “boxed” release. Service aspirations may have been kneecapped entirely. This is not a bad move and might be a better fit.

From what we know the Deviation games title in development is halted/cancelled and probably Sony’s contract with them. I mean… is that bad? Games are cancelled all the time and when things aren’t going as planned it may be wise to terminate. Why end up with Redfall?

All online games can be perceived as GaaS and in some way most chase reoccurring revenues. Does not mean they need battle passes and 4 seasons a year.

Where did you get that information about Factions 2? What they officially announced is that they are focusing on their next single player game, anf Factions 2 team got smaller.

 

[Zzero]

what is the point? That this idea of sony GaaS initiative is coming from nowhere, that Jim Ryan is to blame for that, is just misinformed and is not taking into account the past.

IT. WASN'T. THEIR. GAME.

 

[Yurinka]

Where did you get that information about Factions 2? What they officially announced is that they are focusing on their next single player game, anf Factions 2 team got smaller.

What they officially announced is that TLOU Online has been delayed, and that in addition to TLOU Online they are working in more games, being at least one of them single player.



As far as I know, Sony or ND never said they reduced its team or that they moved their focus to other game. That's only rumors and speculation from "sources".

 

[Yurinka]

sorry.. but what is surprising about it?.

The lists show that most games greenlighted by Jim Ryan and Hermen Hulst aren't GaaS, and that most known Sony GaaS were greenlighted by previous CEOs, not by them.

Which implies that the GaaS strategy, as also happens with the PC strategy or projects like TLOUP1 weren't started by them because the previous CEOs already were staring on it.

meaning= Jim is following what Sony needs from PlayStation just like Shawn and Kodera did. (their job is to accomplish that).

Yes, the strategy of pushing GaaS (plus PC, cloud and mobile) predates Jim Ryan and Hermen Hulst, this is what my lists shown.

As an example, some PS cloud stuff recently implemented, or where they are working on now (to extend it to mobile and tvs) was announced as part of their long term plans when they announced it 10 years ago.

The only thing we kow is that play station is investing more or less the same amount of money in GaaS as they do in Single Player games, right?

Not now, it's planned than in a few year they'll be investing 60% of the money on GaaS and 40% on non-GaaS.

But GaaS require way more investment because their development continues for years after release, which means that the number of games they will be investing on won't be 60%-40%, but instead the number of GaaS way smaller. In fact, Hermen said that they had more than 25 games under development and that 12 of them (less than the half) were GaaS.