Shawn Layden explains how to make games faster and cheaper

Jim Ryan

Not Lyin
VIP
22 Jun 2022
1,672
3,040


Next, he says developers must stop chasing photorealism, questioning whether it improves gameplay or story commensurately: "I don't believe you can get across the uncanny valley; I think that will always be just five steps ahead. So instead of chasing that, let's go back to exciting game design." He says we're past the point where most players even notice the addition of things like advanced ray tracing.

Layden also suggests letting the machines do more of the work, citing the Hello Games approach. He says AI will have its uses, but the idea it can create anything new of worth is ridiculous: "That is not going to happen. AI only sees in one direction, which is backwards. It puts stuff together to make you think you're seeing forward, but you're really not; you're just seeing a rehash of backwards." Meanwhile, he sees No Man's Sky as "a game with ultimately infinite scope, but it's essentially done by less than ten people because they spent a lot of time building the pipeline, the toolset, which allowed them to create over and over, making the machine do most of the procedural heavy lifting". He concluded: "We need to get more of that into gaming
 

Nhomnhom

Banned
25 Mar 2023
8,414
11,558
Sony Pictures Animation had great success in 3D animation with Into the Spider-Verse by going after stylized animation and shaders.

I think we see again and again that graphics by themselves don't sell and chasing just realism at this point doesn't add anything to most games.

With that said, I'm completely against reducing the budget of their main big studios, those are all profitable and producing high quality games.

Niche, properly budgeted AA games is what we seem to be missing.
 
  • they're_right_you_know
Reactions: Kokoloko

Danja

Veteran
Icon Extra
10 Mar 2023
6,072
5,857
He's been right for years and years and it's been a huge blow to PlayStation losing him. PlayStation studios falling into turmoil us also a side effect of him no longer being there to oversee and nurture the pipeline.
 

Orangee

Well-known member
3 Mar 2024
473
488
He is right, but he is a hypocrite. He pushed for blockbusters. He send Gravity Rush 2 to die, and he forced the devs to bloat the game with trash content to make it "feel more AAA".
He should go back to making nfts for tencent or whatever the hell he has been doing
 

Entropi

Veteran
Icon Extra
22 Jan 2023
3,427
4,672
I thought he was the one pushing PS to follow MS's steps with regards to Game Pass. If that's the case, PS is better without him.
 

Kokoloko

Veteran
Icon Extra
21 Jun 2022
5,898
4,637
Sony Pictures Animation had great success in 3D animation with Into the Spider-Verse by going after stylized animation and shaders.

I think we see again and again that graphics by themselves don't sell and chasing just realism at this point doesn't add anything to most games.

With that said, I'm completely against reducing the budget of their main big studios, those are all profitable and producing high quality games.

Niche, properly budgeted AA games is what we seem to be missing.

Same.
PS4 made 9B operating income (profit?) And PS5 already at 10Billion, so they can easily afford there AAA games and even more so.

But yes, they could also make AA-A games where they dont have to chase graphics.
We saw how journalists and “video game fans” who complain about Sony’s big budget graphical games, and how they also treat Rise of Ronin graphics…
 
  • thisistheway
Reactions: Nhomnhom

Yurinka

Veteran
VIP
21 Jun 2022
7,719
6,604
Next, he says developers must stop chasing photorealism, questioning whether it improves gameplay or story commensurately: "I don't believe you can get across the uncanny valley; I think that will always be just five steps ahead. So instead of chasing that, let's go back to exciting game design." He says we're past the point where most players even notice the addition of things like advanced ray tracing.
Well, some big seller genres or games aimed to certain demographics work better with realist visuals, this is the reason of why devs chase that.

Instead ofther ones work better with more stylized art style, so devs chase that instead.

But what he says it's partly true, some games could use a more stylized art style that wouldn't require that much horsepower and work behind these visuals.

Layden also suggests letting the machines do more of the work, citing the Hello Games approach. He says AI will have its uses, but the idea it can create anything new of worth is ridiculous: "That is not going to happen. AI only sees in one direction, which is backwards. It puts stuff together to make you think you're seeing forward, but you're really not; you're just seeing a rehash of backwards." Meanwhile, he sees No Man's Sky as "a game with ultimately infinite scope, but it's essentially done by less than ten people because they spent a lot of time building the pipeline, the toolset, which allowed them to create over and over, making the machine do most of the procedural heavy lifting". He concluded: "We need to get more of that into gaming
Many open world devs already have been using procedural generation for a lot of their systems or environment art. But combined with manually made art assets or "Lego pieces" to build stuff. And AI is helping to reduce the amount of work needed.

Example: a dev makes a house and 10 different texture/materials/etc sets for it, in a way that procedurally can be modifed to have more or less floors per house, or more windows per floor, or using one or the other texture/materials/etc set. And then to place them procedurally in an environment following certain rules, like favoring a texture set when closer to the beach or lakes, needing to be close to roads or paths, etc.

Same goes to place mostly anything like rocks, bushes, types of plants or trees, animals, enemy spawns, collectable loot / ammo / health items, and so on. Devs build some "Lego blocks" manually, define some rules of how they are located and combined procedurally on top of a basic level design made by some human.

I'd bet we still haven't seen any game published using it, but devs are using AI to learn from these "Lego blocks" and make more variants or improve them, learn from these texture/materials/etc sets and make more variants or improve them using references maybe from real world, and learn from these rules set by some designer to place and combine stuff plus combining it with real distribution in real maps, or to cross it with collected player data stats to improve them.

Same goes with characters, mostly npcs: they were made with manually made "lego blocks" that later could be combined following certain rules set by some designer. AI is helping to make more of them, and/or improving them.

And well, everything later gets overviewed, fixed and refined manually.
 

2spooky5me

Veteran
12 May 2024
521
454
I'm still baffled why they didn't keep their working relationship with OtherOcean.
I wanted a Medievil II Remake, damnit! And NOW would have been a great time to drop it.

Get the A team in a studio to work on a more budget-friendly game, while B team works on the AA-AAA.
Once the budget-friendly game drops, A Team works on the AAA, and B team works on another budget title. And repeat.
 
  • they're_right_you_know
  • Shake
Reactions: Umar and Kokoloko