Helldivers 2 will require Steam players to sign in with PSN account, led to review bombing games & refunds. |UP| Gamers organizing to revert reviews.

[Infinity]

Sony squander the game on pc

 

[Puff]

Apparently Mystic heard a rumor of a big 1P non-GAAS going Day 1 on PS5 & PC next year. If that happens, then I'll know what SIE's direction is and it'll be a very bad one for their console.

The rumor comes from arthur gies

 

[Muddasar]

The rumor comes from arthur gies

SonyToo.

 

[toucandela]

Brings up a great point Minecraft was already hugely popular before Microsoft bought them & they brought in a requirement for a Microsoft account where was the backlash

Yeah, but Microsoft bought it in 2014 and the requirement of MS accounts happened in 2023 (originally planned to be 2021 but pushed back).

Minecraft will require a Microsoft account to play in 2021

Owners of the classic version will be forced to migrate

www.theverge.com

That reminds me of Rocket League. Epic buy it in 2019. Big review bomb on suspicion of what will happen. Then Epic move it to their store and kill the Mac and Linux versions. Multiple huge dick moves. However, they always said they would maintain it for existing customers on Steam and it's still active there today. But did it hurt the game long term? I don't know? Going free to play probably helped.

Anyhow, this is an amusing shit show that Sony kinda walked into. Hopefully the game survives it.

 

[laynelane]

Okay, I'll adjust what I meant with that statement. By saying an event like this could be pointed to as the start of a decline with PlayStation, I was suggesting more in terms of it being representative of how they handle potentially negative optics and messaging, both in causing it and then resolving the issue, especially if it also creates strains between 3P partners. As the way they handle those things, could have ramifications on other situations going forward, that create a snowball effect. And at some point, while it may begin with questionable choices on the PC side, eventually I feel that would spill over to console-side decisions too.

The XBO had terrible rumors and then a completely botched reveal, but they kind of reeled back some of the damage with the following E3 until the $499. SIE undercutting them by $100 made the XBO E3 look a lot worst in retrospect, then they were still dealing with the Kinect 2 stuff not helped by the NSA leak at the time. As bad as all of taht was though, XBO still had a strong launch lineup (arguably better than PS4's), and at least at the time MS still were focusing on the console primarily and chiefly. Their actions still showed that their console audience was the priority.

What's going on right now with the Helldivers 2 situation is a situation compounding upon the Stellar Blade issue (a nontroversy IMHO), which compounded on the runaway rumors of FFVII Rebirth underperformance in sales, compounded on the SIE GAAS cancellation news and PSVR2 PC compatibility, the ports of yet more 1P exclusives to PC, the studio closures (even if some like London Studio didn't have much of a great track record post-PS2 era), the PS5 price increases, the PS+ price increase, the revelation of games like Wolverine being co-developed for PS5 & PC simultaneously etc. It's just been a lot of bad little things with SIE happening over the past year or two with sprinkles of good and still getting some big games out there, but the games should be expected from the job of a platform holder.

So it's just all this stuff compounding on each other and it just shows a clear problem: SIE are very poor at messaging and presenting good optics with their fanbase & the community at large. They make contentious decisions and then don't think to balance them out with good moves or, more lately over the past 1-2 years, things that show (not tell) that the console is still their chief priority. And now this latest thing with Helldivers 2 seems to have put a bit of a rift between SIE and Arrowhead. They FINALLY got a massive GAAS hit and right after MS bought their way into COD ownership at that, and they bungle forcing of PSN requirement like this? Why risk ruining what seemed like a great partnership?

If SIE wanted to give an official response, they should've done so shortly after announcing the mandate for PSN account linking. Not wait the weekend afterwards. Shades of Microsoft with those initial rumors of going 3P multiplat/ports of HiFi Rush & others to PS and Nintendo and then taking a whole weekend before clarifying. And like that situation, I don't think SIE would let this negative blowback happen unless the "official" statement were that they're full steam ahead with this PSN mandate.

The actual mandate isn't the issue for me; it's how they've gone about announcing and enforcing it. But it also gives me pause to think they're doing it because they are going to double down on PC ports going forward, and not just for GAAS. But non-GAAS too, probably with even shorter porting times between console & PC. Apparently Mystic heard a rumor of a big 1P non-GAAS going Day 1 on PS5 & PC next year. If that happens, then I'll know what SIE's direction is and it'll be a very bad one for their console.

That type of direction will be what leads to PlayStation consoles suffering a similar slide into irrelevancy as Xbox has. But I don't think Sony has the massive non-gaming pillars to offset that or make a major adjustment, the way Microsoft as a corporation does. And in that context it could be worst a situation for PlayStation than it has been for Xbox.

On a completely separate note, but somewhat related, I wonder just how much PS consoles can slide into irrelevancy now. With Xbox's rapid decline in the console space and Nintendo's status as a hybrid, there really isn't much choice but to go with Sony going forward. If you want a console that can play all the latest games, PS is the best choice now (the only choice if Xbox ultimately exits the traditional console market). Of course, there's always the option to switch to PC but that is not desirable or feasible for many people. Could that be one of the reasons why optics are seemingly becoming less important to Sony?

It terms of the official response from Sony, what I meant was a response to all this backlash. I wonder if they didn't expect it at all or didn't see how severe it would become. It's costing them money now. Will they directly respond to it? If so, what will they say? That's what I'm waiting to hear.

I do hear you about the points you made regarding all the "bad little things" and agree with your stance that it's not a good look for Sony - now and in the future. On the other hand, though, I think the majority of PS gamers are looking for a reliable console/accessories, comfortable controller, and good games which Sony are delivering. That's the priority of, I would say, the majority of people who game on PS. Either way, along with you and everyone else here, I will be closely watching how Sony handles things.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

What fucking difference does it make?

I swear this is the dumbest fucking “issue” I’ve ever seen. Sony really needs to rethink their pc strategy moving forward because most of this is just pure trolling.

Or make their own launcher outside of steam and let people play their games there if they want or just live with not playing them

They somehow think PS player base doesn't exist for Helldivers 2, lol. It'll remain healthier when those leeches get out. Fuck those PC whiners.

 

[Petekilla]

It's kind of wild to see people try to make this out to be not a big deal. The game launched without a forced linking and while the reasoning makes sense, why did Sony continue to sell in regions they do not support, all the while knowing that they will reinstate the mandatory linking of the PSN account? People who bought the game in those countries are now getting refunds from Steam no matter the hours played because they can't play it anymore due to Sony's incompetence.

If someone tries to pull up any other Xbox game that requires you to make a Microsoft account, the key difference is that they didn't let you play the game for MONTHS without creating one.

PlayStation only supports ~70 countries.
Microsoft supports ~190 countries.

(Used Microsoft because they have you create a Microsoft account, not an Xbox account)

I think it’s because the game was having launch issues in the beginning. So they wanted Arrowhead to focus on fixing the game’s issues, then put the login feature later.

 

[Eternal_Wings]

Imo this not as worse as people claim. If Sony ends up selling only 85-90m PS5 consoles at the end of the generation, they will ultimately need to reevaluate what lead to this disastrous end result. So they will likely draw their conclusions, that porting on PC was the wrong approach. And then they will likely start with the new PS6 generation, a different strategy: abandoning PC ports. It's still 3-4 years until Sony can reflect.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Does Steam support passkeys? This “infinetly less secure” argument is beyond stupid. When was PSN used to spread malware?

My PSN is connected to my cellphone. So even when you have the password you can't access without me allowing it from my phone. It's a Sony account as well connected to my cameras and other Sony products, and it's a US account lol.

 

[Petekilla]

why Helldivers players would cancel PS+ on PS if they play on PS5? this is illogical. also, Stellar Blade has 93% user rating on meta, they are highly happy with the game, more than most games created in 20 years? 30 years?

this is fucking cringe at best, pathetic at worse.

Grumman is an idiot. This is a former dev btw. Lol

 

[Eternal_Wings]

Jimbo has really fucked up Sony's entire success. He was given a perfect working PS division. Oh lord why didn't Shu become CEO? We would experience golden days if Shu had been appointed in 2016 instead of Jim Lying Ryan.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Grumman is an idiot. This is a former dev btw. Lol

Glad to have cheaters out of my game. I entered one game with a guy having infinite grenades, so I threw a 380mm barrage and he kicked me lol. One of the extremely few occasions to be kicked mid game in my 200+ hours gameplay.

 

[xollowsob]

Issue isn’t listed.

Probably an exception like from a non PSN supported country.

Good luck getting a refund in Europe and USA after 100 hours.

It's happening.

Sony changed a legal contract, then went into their own T+Cs to change the wording from last month to this month. Apparently refunding under the reason of "contract change I don't agree with" is Valve saving their arse legally by refunding you the money.

A class action lawsuit is being raised and while I understand some hardened Sony fans are hurting to hear of the negative news, this is a good thing for gaming as a hobby and industry. Shitty practices should never be accepted. When they are, like Xbots did with Microsoft, it never ends well for the company.

 

[Johnic]

The rumor comes from arthur gies

Staggered releases also help sell your hardware, which leads to more people in your ecosystem, they also take the pressure off the devs by making them work on only one version, making for a better product. The guy's full of it. Even Shaun Layden, who initiated the PC strategy, recently said it's not worth it.

But I've no doubt Sony would be dumb enough to do it. Expect the quality to go down when that happens. If you thought ND canceling Factions after 4 years was bad, wait until this happens and studios start juggling several different versions off the bat.

 

[Muddasar]

It's happening.

Sony changed a legal contract, then went into their own T+Cs to change the wording from last month to this month. Apparently refunding under the reason of "contract change I don't agree with" is Valve saving their arse legally by refunding you the money.

A class action lawsuit is being raised and while I understand some hardened Sony fans are hurting to hear of the negative news, this is a good thing for gaming as a hobby and industry. Shitty practices should never be accepted. When they are, like Xbots did with Microsoft, it never ends well for the company.

Bullshit. They didn’t change any contract. It was a Q and A.

Valve is only stopping further refunds from non PSN regions happening in the future.

Helldivers has always required to you to link to a PSN account since launch.

It’s on the store page and in game.

Just cause you could skip doesn’t mean it wasn’t mandatory. Well you won’t be able to skip now.

You see it all that time in all walks of life.

Class action lawsuit will be laughed at.

 

[JAHGamer]

Staggered releases also help sell your hardware, which leads to more people in your ecosystem, they also take the pressure off the devs by making them work on only one version, making for a better product. The guy's full of it. Even Shaun Layden, who initiated the PC strategy, recently said it's not worth it.

But I've no doubt Sony would be dumb enough to do it. Expect the quality to go down when that happens. If you thought ND canceling Factions after 4 years was bad, wait until this happens and studios start juggling several different versions off the bat.

Naughty Dog already said they've adjusted their development pipeline to cater to PC. This is before ever releasing a single game on PC. Spider-Man 2 was developed simultaneously with PC and Wolverine will be the same. I don't doubt day/date is around the corner. It's crazy that a platform where games sell 15m+ is treated the same as a platform that can barely do 1m. And when it does happen and PlayStation crashes and burns, they'll blame it on everything but PC.

 

[Gods&Monsters]

It's happening.

Sony changed a legal contract, then went into their own T+Cs to change the wording from last month to this month. Apparently refunding under the reason of "contract change I don't agree with" is Valve saving their arse legally by refunding you the money.

A class action lawsuit is being raised and while I understand some hardened Sony fans are hurting to hear of the negative news, this is a good thing for gaming as a hobby and industry. Shitty practices should never be accepted. When they are, like Xbots did with Microsoft, it never ends well for the company.

Are you talking about the outdated FAQ on PSN website? That was not on Steam or in the game.

Valve is not required to refund for something outside their store and that customers never saw anywhere.

 

[Neversummer]

Imo this not as worse as people claim. If Sony ends up selling only 85-90m PS5 consoles at the end of the generation, they will ultimately need to reevaluate what lead to this disastrous end result. So they will likely draw their conclusions, that porting on PC was the wrong approach. And then they will likely start with the new PS6 generation, a different strategy: abandoning PC ports. It's still 3-4 years until Sony can reflect.

PS4 sold 120 million even if PS5 sold 100 million or low 100 million that would be a disaster imo considering PS4 had new highs for the PS brand & only dropping 1 maybe 2 major first party game & only really hitting 2 major games from 2017 to 2020 PS5 selling less then PS4 would be baffling especially with the success of PS4 the fact that Sony didn’t double down or if they consider what they are doing “doubling down” resulted in them selling 20 million consoles shows PC port that released 1-2 years killed nearly 25% of there console sales. Day n date will kill over 50% of PS console sales

Its pretty obvious if you don’t make your platform & storefront defacto & allow players to play your game on another platform even if its 1-2 years gamers will migrate & wait, indirectly your games no longer becomes “special” on the eyes of many.

By the time Sony waits for the PS6 gen in 2027 we will be 2-3 years in Switch 2 likely more PC ports maybe Xbox create a open platform in 2026 & you can play PS games that are on PC it will be to late people will be making there mind that PC & Nintendo is the platform & storefront to invest long term. There won’t be any trust from Sony like the PS platform will just be sketchy & it will take a clear statement from Sony PS that they will never do PC port for singleplayer games & state that they’ll become more like Nintendo & seek other methods to expand & increase profit even then like is it to late Sony will just look so pathetic.

 

[Neversummer]

Naughty Dog already said they've adjusted their development pipeline to cater to PC. This is before ever releasing a single game on PC. Spider-Man 2 was developed simultaneously with PC and Wolverine will be the same. I don't doubt day/date is around the corner. It's crazy that a platform where games sell 15m+ is treated the same as a platform that can barely do 1m. And when it does happen and PlayStation crashes and burns, they'll blame it on everything but PC.

As someone who invested thousands & bought every PS console at this point I’m really just waiting for the Switch 2 & further see through how PS handles PC ports & live service but my mindset of jumping ship has never been high. I just need Switch 2 to be PS4 power, offer more 3rd party & a pipeline of exclusive games & im jumping from PS to Nintendo & PC fully. PS lack of first party & slow cadence of output has been so noticeable in 2023, 2024 & you can even say 2021 since the 2 games from first party was returnal & ratchet & clank rift apart which are good games but more smaller games & still not enough to how much exclusive games Nintendo outputs per year

 

[Neversummer]

Are you talking about the outdated FAQ on PSN website? That was not on Steam or in the game.

Valve is not required to refund for something outside their store and that customers never saw anywhere.

I’m assuming the refunds are mainly coming from country that doesn’t support PSN or give an option to click (others) while creating a PSN. Either way if I was Sony I would be mad by refunding games after being played more then 2 hours & adding fuel to the fire instead of sending Sony email to see when Sony will have an update