What Makes A Great Competitive Card Game?

[toucandela]

Quick games, long games, a board (positional strategy), maths, shinies, insane combos, something else?

Just curious what others think.

I've been playing some CCGs more lately. Often going for games moving characters around a board. I finally tried Duelyst 2 and surprisingly it still has about enough players to keep it ticking over and in some ways is better than Duelyst was when it went bust or whatever happened. Also playing a similar game, Cards and Castles 2. It has it's flaws, slightly long games and could do with some more mechanics, but I've been a bit addicted and there's updates on the way. It's fun.

Also got stuck into Warhammer 40k Warpforge which is the most Hearthstone/Magic style game I've played in a while. I found Magic Arena a bit intimidating and don't like the aesthetic of Hearthstone much. Warpforge seem okay, has potential. Can't stand draft as I suck at building decks like that. Not much better normally but at least a bit better.

Just installed Marvel Snap to try next. Wondering if it will tap into my liking of Gwent with the positioning of cards. No idea what the rules are yet. I've had my eye on a couple of other random ones like Wingspan and Mystic Vale.

And in case it comes up, I'm not a whale. Not my style. If I play a game for X hours I buy something so the devs get paid. But have never paid more than I would for a console game. Maybe if I played enough hours but I generally move on.

Anyway, I think I like card games with a board more. Maybe it's the chess like element. Don't mind a longer game but it can get a bit much.

Got any favourites?

 

[Johnic]

Strategy.

A lot of these games involve a lot of luck.

Gwent, the standalone not the one in Witcher 3, was an excellent game that drew people away from other card games, including the biggest streamers.

Unfortunately, over time, they turned the game into an RNG fest.

At the start you had to take everything into consideration. Your deck, the enemy deck, your faction, their faction and then several different decks you could use. Do you go heavy on the Scoiatael and have units that can be placed on any row, thus avoiding weather while the enemy has to endure it since his units aren't agile. Or do you go for a faction that specializes in siege units and hope the enemy doesn't have weather cards to screw you over.

Consuming your own cards for strength, reviving your cards from the graveyard, running a lock deck to prevent enemies from triggering their abilities. All played major roles.

Then they decided to add RNG card of the "randomly create any unit from any faction" cards and make it so that tournaments were won on random bs. Stripped all factions of their unique features, mostly, so that everyone was agile, made weather affect only the enemy side, etc. Simply put, removed strategy to facilitate a more casual approach to it.

Sorry to go on a nostalgia trip but Gwent is the only ccg I played and loved it since the closed beta days, up until they messed up badly.

The game's still online but they won't ba updating it from now on.

 

[anonpuffs]

Collectible card games are like any other game. What makes them good is the same thing that makes other games good: your decisions matter. IMO the best card games are designed around using your knowledge of the board state and game mechanics to navigate the obstacles you encounter, be it other players or stages like roguelike deckbuilders e.g. slay the spire.

The things that make a CCG bad are: overabundance of elaborate rulesets and mechanics (which is why I dislike mtg), poor balance (optimizing gamebreaking card combos that make playing meaningless), excessive chance/luck, p2win.

 

[JAHGamer]

I used to love Hearthstone before it became P2W.... Also Yu Gi Oh if that counts. Being able to try a diverse, wide variety of decks is very important to me.

 

[toucandela]

Consuming your own cards for strength

I used avoid this sacrifice style of play but recently have been trying it more and it's an exciting strategy. (not talking about Gwent specifically, I played that for a bit a while back and liked it but never got deep into it after hearing it was going to end)

The randomness is an interesting one. Too much is definitely bad. Cards and Castles has a lot of random draws, summons, ability to add random cards from other factions. A couple of high value cards are quite obnoxious. At the same time I can find it a laugh and just embrace the chaos. Playing against it can be frustrating but also a good challenge flexing to the totally unexpected. I much prefer actual strategy though.

It might be why I prefer card games with a board element because it adds another dimension of strategy that suits my brain more. Duelyst 2 is very good for creating strategic situations. Otherwise it can feel much more about maths and unit types, remembering loads of symbols. I'm enjoying Warpforge but can imagine it might add a lot more complex interactions.

Is the problem that devs keep making too many cards? I know that's the business model but maybe it would be better to put a ceiling on it and focus on creating different game modes. I've heard the Magic format Commander is popular.

 

[flaccidsnake]

In-game collection is a major draw for me.

I loved Gwent in Witcher3, but didn't care for it standalone because finding the cards in the world was a lot of the fun. Inscryption also does this brilliantly in a very different kind of game. Not too many others I can think of.

Mega game-breaking combos are also a must. I'm thinking about Slay the Spire mostly.