Angie Smets (Guerrilla Games) has been promoted to Head of Development Strategy at PlayStation

Papacheeks

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To me you need to look at ND like we look at R*. TLoU2 was ahead of anything that release in 2020 and could pretty much be release as is today and it would be one of the most impressive games ever.

Guerrilla and Insomniac are yet to release a game as acclaimed/impactful as your average ND game. SSM make hits but is far less productive than ND and Ragnarok isn't nearly as impressive for 2022 as TLoU Part II was for 2020 or Uncharted 4 was for 2016.

Finally, we are yet to see Factions, if it looks like shit then sure, maybe they have become unproductive but if does well and it's something ambitious than that would explain their bloat.

I would argue impact wise, doesnt matter if the games are selling more. Insomniac's spiderman outsold last of us part 2, and so has miles morales. Horizon zero dawn has outsold last of us part 2.

Their impact to the talking/water coolers is irrelevant.
 

stebin alex

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I'm specifically talking about Studio bloat, and efficiency. guerilla, Insomniac, to an extent Santa Monica didnt balloon during Production to 1200 People like Naughty Dog did to finish Last of us part 2. Then also Santa monica was able to make their own PC version in-house for God of war 2018 while also getting Ragnarök to Ship.

ND couldn't ship a remake to PC without massive issues and they were given plenty of time and offered options for support to handle brunt of it. Santa Monica was able to ship God of war 2018 FOR PS4. Add a PS5 config for PS5 launch for 4k@60, while working on PC version and working on a full o sequel.

Naughty Dog had major issues getting to finish line for Part 2 and used 1200 Bodies to do it. And that causes major after math of people, top talent to leave.

You kind of have to dig a little to see, ND though one of the most talented, lately on multiple projects have had the most bloat. ANd compared to others like Insomniac, Gureilla seem inable to manage multiple things in-house as well.

Either they are spread too thin on having too many hands on other things, or there's some internal studio bloat/Management going on.
God of War was ported to PC with Jet pack interactive, also God of War Ragnarök has more than 8 support studios supporting the development at stages.

ND TLOU part 1 port was done by Iron Galaxy and partly by ND itself in house.
God of War Ragnarök had over 1000 people in the credits, I can't do a full count, but the credit video is over 30 mins long
.

Naughty Dog internally have around/over 400 devs according to Neil Druckmans interview a few months back, around the same as Insomniacs and a bit more than SSM. The over 1000 devs worked on it were from support studios internally and externally, it happens with every AAA video game.
 

Nhomnhom

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I would argue impact wise, doesnt matter if the games are selling more. Insomniac's spiderman outsold last of us part 2, and so has miles morales. Horizon zero dawn has outsold last of us part 2.

Their impact to the talking/water coolers is irrelevant.
Impact isn't just sales, Spider-man isn't nearly as remarkable, didn't gain as many accolades and won't be as highly regarded years from now.

Spider-man is a pretty good Spider-man game it's not trying to be anything else, that is fine but that's not what ND is about, ND games are about pushing the entire medium of games forward in countless aspects.
 

Papacheeks

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Impact isn't just sales, Spider-man isn't nearly as remarkable, didn't gain as many accolades and won't be as highly regarded years from now.

Spider-man is a pretty good Spider-man game it's not trying to be anything else, that is fine but that's not what ND is about, ND games are about pushing the entire medium of games forward in countless aspects.

This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

I am strictly talking about Studio efficiency. ND are not as efficient Period as other studios. Hence inner promotions within GUreilla because of their work on their engine and pushing out games on top of helping other studios get off the ground like Kojima Productions.

Insomniac are able to put out high quality games and work on multiple projects and also meet deadlines. ND has not. And this was verified and reported on from Jason Shcrier.
 

stebin alex

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This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

I am strictly talking about Studio efficiency. ND are not as efficient Period as other studios. Hence inner promotions within GUreilla because of their work on their engine and pushing out games on top of helping other studios get off the ground like Kojima Productions.

Insomniac are able to put out high quality games and work on multiple projects and also meet deadlines. ND has not. And this was verified and reported on from Jason Shcrier.
Why does efficiency have anything to do with Studio Promotions, Herman probably looked at what are some of the best candidates for this role and had interviews from various candidates and choose Angie Smets, doesn't mean Naughty Dog is bad or in efficient.
I think you are trying to make things that are not related/correlated and trying to shoehorn them in.

Naughty Dog had issues with Crunch, and that been reported on, meeting deadlines is there for all to see,
for me personally, I hope they take the right amount of time, and not have Crunched/overwork in their studio.
Neil D has spoke about the changes they are doing internally, one of the devs came out and spoke about not having Crunch in the TLOU Part 1. Yes it's a remake, but it's defo a start, and I'm happy to see it.
Insomniac are an amazing studio, but the thing is every studio is dealt with delays because of Covid, Ratchet was supposed to be out in the Launch window, but was moved to June 21. Horizon 2 (Guerilla) was supposed to be out in 2021, (this is me remembering some leaks and stuff) it was supposed to be out in 2021, but yes it got delayed to 2022. Also Horizon PC port was Nixxes.
Yes Naughty Dog has its issues, but they are getting better and trying to fix the issue, the PC port is bad, but it's partially their fault as Iron Galaxy has worked on it too.
 

Papacheeks

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Why does efficiency have anything to do with Studio Promotions, Herman probably looked at what are some of the best candidates for this role and had interviews from various candidates and choose Angie Smets, doesn't mean Naughty Dog is bad or in efficient.
I think you are trying to make things that are not related/correlated and trying to shoehorn them in.

Naughty Dog had issues with Crunch, and that been reported on, meeting deadlines is there for all to see,
for me personally, I hope they take the right amount of time, and not have Crunched/overwork in their studio.
Neil D has spoke about the changes they are doing internally, one of the devs came out and spoke about not having Crunch in the TLOU Part 1. Yes it's a remake, but it's defo a start, and I'm happy to see it.
Insomniac are an amazing studio, but the thing is every studio is dealt with delays because of Covid, Ratchet was supposed to be out in the Launch window, but was moved to June 21. Horizon 2 (Guerilla) was supposed to be out in 2021, (this is me remembering some leaks and stuff) it was supposed to be out in 2021, but yes it got delayed to 2022. Also Horizon PC port was Nixxes.
Yes Naughty Dog has its issues, but they are getting better and trying to fix the issue, the PC port is bad, but it's partially their fault as Iron Galaxy has worked on it too.

From what we know Gureilla has been operating on building their tools for the engine to give out to partnering studios like Kojima, among others who are also using Decima. On top of making multiple projects. Burning Shore isnt the only game we will at least see this year from Gureilla.

Naughty Dog has unfortunately run wild, and been put on a pedestal. From early reports a while back there was major difficulties in project managment. And is the reason a decent amount of people left after Last of us Part 2 shipped.

Also Neil having more control over game projects while also trying to do film/tv stuff was also an issue. Hence why there were rumors of LAST of US remake being done not in-house a while back.

Right now there's a lense on ND and not one on GG, INSOMNIAC, SANTA MONICA. I can tell you with confidence that in the past 2-3 years there's been more shuffling of talent, people and management at ND than at any other studios within Playstation.
 

stebin alex

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From what we know Gureilla has been operating on building their tools for the engine to give out to partnering studios like Kojima, among others who are also using Decima. On top of making multiple projects. Burning Shore isnt the only game we will at least see this year from Gureilla.

Naughty Dog has unfortunately run wild, and been put on a pedestal. From early reports a while back there was major difficulties in project managment. And is the reason a decent amount of people left after Last of us Part 2 shipped.

Also Neil having more control over game projects while also trying to do film/tv stuff was also an issue. Hence why there were rumors of LAST of US remake being done not in-house a while back.

Right now there's a lense on ND and not one on GG, INSOMNIAC, SANTA MONICA. I can tell you with confidence that in the past 2-3 years there's been more shuffling of talent, people and management at ND than at any other studios within Playstation.
Yes, Guerilla has been excellent at cultivated Decima engine and allowing others to create games with the Decima, it's awesome and should be applauded.

- Yes ND had issues at the time of TLOU 2, but they are better studio now than ever, the project management issues should have reduced now, because ND had a policy where they didn't have producers, but they now have an army of them, I saw a pic online of the producers and there should be at least 25 to 30. So well done to ND to see where they're having production issues and hired for the right roles, with these hires, there should less crunch, more efficacy in production etc.

- Neil isn't the only person who makes games at ND, they have
  • Anthony Newman ---- Factions
  • Kurt Margenau ---- New IP
  • Shaun E --- New IP
  • Mathew Gallant ----Factions
  • Joe P TLou ---- Factions

Right now there's a lense on ND and not one on GG, INSOMNIAC, SANTA MONICA. I can tell you with confidence that in the past 2-3 years there's been more shuffling of talent, people and management at ND than at any other studios within Playstation.

Hmm I dont know 🤷‍♂️
 

Papacheeks

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Yes, Guerilla has been excellent at cultivated Decima engine and allowing others to create games with the Decima, it's awesome and should be applauded.

- Yes ND had issues at the time of TLOU 2, but they are better studio now than ever, the project management issues should have reduced now, because ND had a policy where they didn't have producers, but they now have an army of them, I saw a pic online of the producers and there should be at least 25 to 30. So well done to ND to see where they're having production issues and hired for the right roles, with these hires, there should less crunch, more efficacy in production etc.

- Neil isn't the only person who makes games at ND, they have
  • Anthony Newman ---- Factions
  • Kurt Margenau ---- New IP
  • Shaun E --- New IP
  • Mathew Gallant ----Factions
  • Joe P TLou ---- Factions



Hmm I dont know 🤷‍♂️


If you are crunching harder than you should be because you are behind schedule, then that comes down to setting unrealistic goals and obviously points to mismanagement either at a high Producer/Studio head level or on a team/department level. Crunch is a natural thing that has been in every aspect of business and sometimes life, think college. But a lot of how much you crunch is decided by project management and keeping deadlines.

Naughty Dog after Bruce left started to falter after he setup specific proejcts. After those projects that he had setup on a good path, ND kind of started having problems.

343's mismanagement was one that went on uncorrected. It seems now after the last of us part 2 debacle and after Herman Hulst among others within Sony are now not allowing ND to be this open/running wild studio.

There's a reason so much shuffling has been happening this gen, and its because Sony wants efficiency, because their competition isnt just consoles now.

Look at Media Molecule, Sony gave them insane freedom, and Dreams though a cool idea didn't work out, or Molecule couldn't make enough content or even finish the PC version that was supposedly talked about within the studio.

Now people are shifting around because the studio is being re-organized.


Insomniac, Santa Monica, and GG are all firing on all cylinders. I mean look at Housemarque, they are a third of the size of ND yet put out a game, Expansion DLC, and helped make the PC version with Climax Studios.

Santa Monica did a lot of the heavy lifting for the PC version, and worked with JetPack Interactive.

“Recently, Jetpack has been working alongside Sony Interactive (Santa Monica Studio) on God Of War projects, including the port of GOW 2018 to PC/Steam, which it released in January 2022.

“The port has been commercially successful and the game received praise from critics and Sony Santa Monica itself. Jetpack continues to work with Sony Santa Monica on the God Of War franchise.”

 
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stebin alex

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If you are crunching harder than you should be because you are behind schedule, then that comes down to setting unrealistic goals and obviously points to mismanagement either at a high Producer/Studio head level or on a team/department level. Crunch is a natural thing that has been in every aspect of business and sometimes life, think college. But a lot of how much you crunch is decided by project management and keeping deadlines.

Naughty Dog after Bruce left started to falter after he setup specific proejcts. After those projects that he had setup on a good path, ND kind of started having problems.

343's mismanagement was one that went on uncorrected. It seems now after the last of us part 2 debacle and after Herman Hulst among others within Sony are now not allowing ND to be this open/running wild studio.

There's a reason so much shuffling has been happening this gen, and its because Sony wants efficiency, because their competition isnt just consoles now.

Look at Media Molecule, Sony gave them insane freedom, and Dreams though a cool idea didn't work out, or Molecule couldn't make enough content or even finish the PC version that was supposedly talked about within the studio.

Now people are shifting around because the studio is being re-organized.


Insomniac, Santa Monica, and GG are all firing on all cylinders. I mean look at Housemarque, they are a third of the size of ND yet put out a game, Expansion DLC, and helped make the PC version with Climax Studios.

Santa Monica did a lot of the heavy lifting for the PC version, and worked with JetPack Interactive.



Bruhhh, i don't even know where you get all these "info" from, but it's hilarious, and have a good day.

Insomniac, Santa Monica, and GG are all firing on all cylinders. I mean look at Housemarque, they are a third of the size of ND yet put out a game, Expansion DLC, and helped make the PC version with Climax Studios.
I wouldn't call Retunral' s PC port great, I remember when it comes out, it had issues, and had like 1000 people on Steam counter. 💀
Anyways happy for all these Studio on creating great games :)

Santa Monica did a lot of the heavy lifting for the PC version, and worked with JetPack Interactive.

Jetpack did the PC port, tho.

I don't really understand why you have some sort of hatred towards ND, but you are making some bias stats to make your point about ND.
Anyway I love ND, and all the other PS Studios like Inso, SSM, GG, HM, BP etc... and I love playing their games.
 

Papacheeks

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Bruhhh, i don't even know where you get all these "info" from, but it's hilarious, and have a good day.


I wouldn't call Retunral' s PC port great, I remember when it comes out, it had issues, and had like 1000 people on Steam counter. 💀
Anyways happy for all these Studio on creating great games :)



Jetpack did the PC port, tho.

I don't really understand why you have some sort of hatred towards ND, but you are making some bias stats to make your point about ND.
Anyway I love ND, and all the other PS Studios like Inso, SSM, GG, HM, BP etc... and I love playing their games.

No hatred. I own all of ND's games, im looking at my Survival PS3 edition of Last of us on top of my Uncharted 4 collectors edition. But in terms of direction, output, and effeciency. ND has not had any shake ups until after Last of us part 2 came out.

My whole point was just on ND's efficiency, project management, output wise compared to other studios. When they were making games within the same toolsets, they seem to be able to crank things out.

We will see the multiplayer game this year. But again its something that became something bigger creatively, but behind the scenes its a side effect of their last big project having major issues studio wise.

I think the reason they have been so quiet is because of the restructuring project wise that was going on. Which is good.

But my main point was they use to lead, and it feels from my perspective Playstation Studios is being lead by Insomniac, Santa Monica and GG.
 

stebin alex

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No hatred. I own all of ND's games, im looking at my Survival PS3 edition of Last of us on top of my Uncharted 4 collectors edition. But in terms of direction, output, and effeciency. ND has not had any shake ups until after Last of us part 2 came out.

My whole point was just on ND's efficiency, project management, output wise compared to other studios. When they were making games within the same toolsets, they seem to be able to crank things out.

We will see the multiplayer game this year. But again its something that became something bigger creatively, but behind the scenes its a side effect of their last big project having major issues studio wise.

I think the reason they have been so quiet is because of the restructuring project wise that was going on. Which is good.

But my main point was they use to lead, and it feels from my perspective Playstation Studios is being lead by Insomniac, Santa Monica and GG.
Yes, they used to be the Leading Studio within SIE, especially as PS3 come out, and only Studio that was able to make a great set of games. But yes they are no longer a Leading Studio, as a lot of SIE/PS Studios can now match up to the standard of Naughty Dog, because of the increase budget on all games and also SONY marketing is key.
Inso, SSM and ND are pretty much the top studios for now, and their games are a bit above the rest, but I like them all, for their own uniqueness.

My whole point was just on ND's efficiency, project management, output wise compared to other studios. When they were making games within the same toolsets, they seem to be able to crank things out.

Yes, they defo had production issues, because when they released TLOU part 2, they didn't have a pre-production project to work on, which is why we had TLOU part 1 remake, Uncharted PS5 Port, and now the Faction MP game. I'm happy to see the changes they made.
1. Have multiple producers to lead the team, set the correct level of workload balance
2. Have a writer's rooms, having multiple writers, so Neil and Halley doesn't need to be involved in every project, so Neil can do TV Show etc.

Yes, i cant wait for Faction MP game, and ND new game. :love:
 
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Papacheeks

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Yes, they used to be the Leading Studio within SIE, especially as PS3 come out, and only Studio that was able to make a great set of games. But yes they are no longer a Leading Studio, as a lot of SIE/PS Studios can now match up to the standard of Naughty Dog, because of the increase budget on all games and also SONY marketing is key.
Inso, SSM and ND are pretty much the top studios for now, and their games are a bit above the rest, but I like them all, for their own uniqueness.



Yes, they defo had production issues, because when they released TLOU part 2, they didn't have a pre-production project to work on, which is why we had TLOU part 1 remake, Uncharted PS5 Port, and now the Faction MP game. I'm happy to see the changes they made.
1. Have multiple producers to lead the team, set the correct level of workload balance
2. Have a writer's rooms, having multiple writers, so Neil and Halley doesn't need to be involved in every project, so Neil can do TV Show etc.

Yes, i cant wait for Faction MP game, and ND new game. :love:

 
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Papacheeks

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broo I'm grieving here :cry:

Knew about this a while back. But didn't think it was this dire. I think since neil was off of the project doing his own IP, who ever was leading could not get this to be where Sony needs it to be.

Would not be surprised at this point since its been almost 3 years since Part 2 that they can this and restart when part 3 is in full production and closer to release.
 

Nhomnhom

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Knew about this a while back. But didn't think it was this dire. I think since neil was off of the project doing his own IP, who ever was leading could not get this to be where Sony needs it to be.

Would not be surprised at this point since its been almost 3 years since Part 2 that they can this and restart when part 3 is in full production and closer to release.
Removes MP component from TLoU Part II because it's too good to be just a game mod.
Three years later scales down the project because it not good enough to be it's own GaaS.
icc-cricket.gif
 

KnittedKnight

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I see Guerrila is the place to be for career climbing in SIE.

MID central and now Loyalists going up.

Just an observation. She has the resume. But so do others.
 
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stebin alex

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Knew about this a while back. But didn't think it was this dire. I think since neil was off of the project doing his own IP, who ever was leading could not get this to be where Sony needs it to be.

Would not be surprised at this point since its been almost 3 years since Part 2 that they can this and restart when part 3 is in full production and closer to release.
We don't know what's going to happen, a lot of the ND devs follow all seem to be confident, and anyway I love these devs, and I don't want them to crunch, so if they need more time, then give it to them.
But Bungie could be right, ND wanted this multiplayer game for a while, and if Bungie thinks this live game will not take off for more than 1 year, then they need to reassess and come back. Bungie is one of the kings of Live services, so I respect their opinion.