Digital Foundry's Callisto Protocol's Analysis PS5 vs XBX/S

[thelastword]

Next gen machines have two modes available, performance and Quality mode, both modes use dynamic resolution with TAA upsampling, which delivers a sharp image. DF indicates that average resolution amongst the PS5 and Series X is within the 1440p to 1728p range. The Series S only has one mode a 30fps mode, usually targetting 1080p, this mode has no raytracing and there is no performance mode there. The series S has worse textures, is missing SSS (sub surface scattering) and generally looks blurrier and much worse than the more powerful consoles.

In the performance mode the PS5 and Series X are neck and neck hitting 60fps most of the time, minus some very hectic areas, where it can drop briefly into the 50's. In the raytracing mode, the Series X is missing raytraced reflections and has instead opted for (SSR: Screen Space Reflections), yet, even with such a deficit in visuals, the quality mode on Series X is significantly less performant than the PS5 version. The PS5 version is pretty much a consistent 30fps whilst the Series X is widely to and fro below the 30fps line.

Side Note:
John Linneman is having some serious mental dissonance rationalizing all this......In typical fashion, he/df have already contacted the devs to address this atrocity of a performance delta in favor of PlayStation. So stay tuned for more updates on the matter....

 

[Deleted member 13]

I'm not sure how a company can't reach parity using a universal graphics engine like Unreal. It boggles my mind actually. There shouldn't be any "custom" coding going on here for the platforms as the engine is multiplatform to begin with. Devs need to polish it up before I pour money into it.

SIDENOTE: Props to the consoles at least getting more than 1 RT feature in a game (i.e. Metro: Exodus).

 

[Old Gamer]

I'm not sure how a company can't reach parity using a universal graphics engine like Unreal. It boggles my mind actually. There shouldn't be any "custom" coding going on here for the platforms as the engine is multiplatform to begin with.

There's plenty of room for customization with the Unreal Engine. Arkham Knight for example was running on Unreal 3, but with enough custom code thrown in to ensure good performance on consoles and with visuals that rivaled most UE4 games.
I don't know how far these developers have gone in that respect, though (and suspect not much, to be honest).

Having said that, the double standards of DF have not gone unnoticed. I have never heard of them contacting developers regarding performance deltas that benefit Xbox...

 

[Deleted member 13]

Having said that, the double standards of DF have not gone unnoticed. I have never heard of them contacting developers regarding performance deltas that benefit Xbox...

Yea, me either.

 

[arvfab]

I'm not sure how a company can't reach parity using a universal graphics engine like Unreal.

I'm not sure how you expect that, to be honest. Or maybe I misunderstood this sentence.

We have similar hardware components, but the underlying architecture is different and even more so the respective APIs.

We don't know what happened here, but let's suppose the devs spent an equal amount of time for optimization for each platform. In case of parity due to the engine such results would imply:

- one hardware is "better" than the other (not true)
- one hardware's architecture is "better" (maybe)
- one of the APIs has less overhead (very probable)

 

[KiryuRealty]

I'm not sure how you expect that, to be honest. Or maybe I misunderstood this sentence.

We have similar hardware components, but the underlying architecture is different and even more so the respective APIs.

We don't know what happened here, but let's suppose the devs spent an equal amount of time for optimization for each platform. In case of parity due to the engine such results would imply:

- one hardware is "better" than the other (not true)
- one hardware's architecture is "better" (maybe)
- one of the APIs has less overhead (very probable)

It’s OS and API overhead directly impacting performance. Windows and Direct X are the textbook definition of bloated code, while the BSD-based OS of the PS5 and the Sony API set are far more efficient and targeted to the hardware more closely than what Windows is capable of.

 

[Deleted member 13]

I'm not sure how you expect that, to be honest. Or maybe I misunderstood this sentence.

We have similar hardware components, but the underlying architecture is different and even more so the respective APIs.

We don't know what happened here, but let's suppose the devs spent an equal amount of time for optimization for each platform. In case of parity due to the engine such results would imply:

- one hardware is "better" than the other (not true)
- one hardware's architecture is "better" (maybe)
- one of the APIs has less overhead (very probable)

This is not the first UE game supporting all platforms. There's not much to it since all the gaming subsystems are the same code across all platforms.

 

[Deleted member 13]

It’s OS and API overhead directly impacting performance. Windows and Direct X are the textbook definition of bloated code, while the BSD-based OS of the PS5 and the Sony API set are far more efficient and targeted to the hardware more closely than what Windows is capable of.

You can export out to Vulkan API (which is just as low level). There's nothing fancy going on with this game to warrant particular optimizations in the game for one platform over the other. These are 3rd party developers like any other developer. Plenty of UE games have parity across platforms.

 

[ethomaz]

I'm not sure how a company can't reach parity using a universal graphics engine like Unreal. It boggles my mind actually. There shouldn't be any "custom" coding going on here for the platforms as the engine is multiplatform to begin with. Devs need to polish it up before I pour money into it.

SIDENOTE: Props to the consoles at least getting more than 1 RT feature in a game (i.e. Metro: Exodus).

Because Unreal Engine uses different code path for different platforms.

The features in Unreal Engine have different performance between platforms/architecture that is why it allow devs to choose the code or feature that it will run in for each platform… so you can have an optimized code/feature for PS5, another optimized for Series X, and others two optimized for AMD and nVidia.

They have a generic code path that works good for all platforms (internally they have abstraction for each platform) but if you want performance optimization over that you need to create your own optimized code path for each platform.

 

[Deleted member 13]

Because Unreal Engine uses different code path for different platforms.

I know this. I work with UE.

The features in Unreal Engine have different performance between platforms/architecture that is why it allow devs to choose the code or feature that it will run in for each platform… so you can have an optimized code/feature for PS5, another optimized for Series X, and others two optimized for AMD and nVidia.

There is no proof that the code path to MS is less optimized than the code path for Sony systems. If that were the case, then PS5 would outperform XSX in every UE game to date. This is NOT the case.

 

[ethomaz]

You can export out to Vulkan API (which is just as low level). There's nothing fancy going on with this game to warrant particular optimizations in the game for one platform over the other. These are 3rd party developers like any other developer. Plenty of UE games have parity across platforms.

Vulkan and DirectX 12 are very similar and are a higher level than what PS5 (or previous PS consoles) has.

 

[ethomaz]

There is no proof that the code path to MS is less optimized than the code path for Sony systems. If that were the case, then PS5 would outperform XSX in every UE game to date. This is NOT the case.

But that shows that the dev choose to optimize more the PS5 than Series X?

That is what I’m pointing… It having the same Engine the developer still have to do specific optimizations for each platform.

There is no way to have the game performing the same on all platforms unless the developer took time to reach similar level of performance via optimization for each platform.

For example this dev probably had issues with their RT implementation on Series X to the point they had to use SSR instead in some parts… and they probably could not find a solution before the reviews and create an specific (read different) implementation of RT just for Series could be too much time consuming and delay the release date.

 

[Deleted member 13]

Vulkan and DirectX 12 are very similar and are a higher level than what PS5 (or previous PS consoles) has.

Umm.. I don't know how much low level you think these developers are coding in. Assembly? Nope. Any API that can allow exposure to memory blocks and threading is low enough. Give an example of code that's lower level than what is needed in these APIs? Furthermore, send me a link where the developer is making specific optimizations for the PS instead of the PC/XSX. You are just guessing and talking like it's fact.

 

[arvfab]

Furthermore, send me a link where the developer is making specific optimizations for the PS instead of the PC/XSX. You are just guessing and talking like it's fact.

I'm sorry to point it out, but the same is what you are doing.

The fact is: this game (like others) performs significantly better on one platform. Sometimes it's the other way around, also using multiplatform engines. Most of the times, the differences are negligible.

@ethomaz just made the obvious comment, that multiple platforms require dedicated optimization which could (or not) lead to parity. I don't see anything wrong with this.

 

[Satoru]

Umm.. I don't know how much low level you think these developers are coding in. Assembly? Nope. Any API that can allow exposure to memory blocks and threading is low enough. Give an example of code that's lower level than what is needed in these APIs? Furthermore, send me a link where the developer is making specific optimizations for the PS instead of the PC/XSX. You are just guessing and talking like it's fact.

If you have different APIs and SDKs you have to optimize differently. Not to talk about the differences in hardware. The Series X is closer to stock desktop / laptop hardware than the PS5 is.

 

[KiryuRealty]

I know this. I work with UE.


There is no proof that the code path to MS is less optimized than the code path for Sony systems. If that were the case, then PS5 would outperform XSX in every UE game to date. This is NOT the case.

Not that you have EVER had much credibility, but that claim just dropped a huge bomb on it. It is a LONG-known fact of life that Windows is far more inefficient than any flavour of UNIX OS, with as much as 30% runtime overhead. PS3, 4 and 5 run on a BSD UNIX-based environment constructed specifically for those systems, while Xbox systems use a customized build of Windows, which is very slightly less bloated than the desktop version.

The reason for performance parity in other titles is probably nothing more than devs putting more work into optimization for the Windows/Direct X environment to bring it to par. In the case of Callisto Protocol, you're seeing a team that developed primarily for PS5 and lacked either time or funding to fully optimize the MS versions.

For someone who is supposedly an industry veteran, you either have huge gaps in your general computing knowledge, or you argue in bad faith most of the time.

 

[ethomaz]

I'm not sure how you expect that, to be honest. Or maybe I misunderstood this sentence.

We have similar hardware components, but the underlying architecture is different and even more so the respective APIs.

We don't know what happened here, but let's suppose the devs spent an equal amount of time for optimization for each platform. In case of parity due to the engine such results would imply:

- one hardware is "better" than the other (not true)
- one hardware's architecture is "better" (maybe)
- one of the APIs has less overhead (very probable)

There indeed several reason for a platform perform better in a game than other even using the same graphic engine.

After all the DevKits, APIs, OS, hardware etc are all different even if the CPU and GPU are similar.

 

[KiryuRealty]

I know this. I work with UE.


There is no proof that the code path to MS is less optimized than the code path for Sony systems. If that were the case, then PS5 would outperform XSX in every UE game to date. This is NOT the case.

Ah, then bad faith it is!

Windows spends around 25-30% of processor cycles basically scratching its nether regions. This has been known for DECADES. XBox runs on windows. If the Series X has a 30% edge in FLOPS, that basically leaves it just slightly above parity in terms of actual workload calculations, as the average BSD system has around 3-5% overhead. You can do the exact math yourself.

 

[Deleted member 13]

I'm sorry to point it out, but the same is what you are doing.

The fact is: this game (like others) performs significantly better on one platform. Sometimes it's the other way around, also using multiplatform engines. Most of the times, the differences are negligible.

I'll remember to say that when XSX is the better performing platform. Hopefully people here can accept that fact and not mention developers don't know what they are doing like they normally do.

 

[Old Gamer]

I'll remember to say that when XSX is the better performing platform. Hopefully people here can accept that fact and not mention developers don't know what they are doing like they normally do.

But you never say what the above posters said. Whenever the XSX performs better in a particular game, you are among those who rush to conclude that it's because it's much more powerful, period, no further explanation needed. And this includes games that are demonstrably poorly optimized, UE or not.

You are the one who refuses to accept that each game engine, and even each game is a unique case that may perform better on XSX or PS5, depending on many things. Games are not hardware benchmarks. Nobody here is claiming that this game is one.