For the first time PlayStation Trophies will be available on PC.
- Thread starter TubzGaming
- Start date
I don't care for PC, but I'm already going to skip buying day-1 1st party games because of the drop in quality due to multiplatform development, won't be an early adopter for new hardware and won't renew my PS+ subscription if they don't change course once my sub expires in 2027.
And PC players will reject the store like they have done with all the others stores that have been forced upon then.
And the Sony will wonder why noone buys their games on PC anymore.
Btw, there is no sign that a PC launcher will happen.
Or it'll open trophies up to yet more manipulation and devalue the whole system even more. I'm sure it's already been mentioned in the few hours this thread has been up.
"Sony has also been rumored to be considering a PlayStation PC launcher after references to it were spotted in Marvel’s Spider-Man Remastered for PC last year. Sony first started using a PlayStation PC label in 2021, shortly after it acquired Nixxes."
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PlayStation PC launcher references spotted in Spider-Man Remastered for PC
PC launcher might include cross-buy support
www.theverge.com
It will, Xbox data prove this negative effect
Also it will be funny seeing Xbox build a hybrid handheld PC that allows you to open Epic, Steam, Windows or soon PS PC storefront & played Xbox, PS & PC games on 1 box. Theoretically if this happen Xbox would be more invested in hardware then PS since PS hardware will only play PS games & miss Xbox, PC & Steam games MS would successfully dropped PS wall garden the only thing Sony had to make there platform & storefront defacto. Sony chasing Xbox will lead to there death. Fully expect Nintendo to slaughter PS w the Switch 2 PS should’ve double down what they did in the PS3 & PS4 generation that made PS successful.
At the end of the day the only thing you have to make your platform & storefront the defacto is permanent exclusive games.
Nintendo has em, Steam has em, PC has many exclusive games in general even Apple has there own exclusive games in Apple Arcade & Apple platform will song get console games within time so Apple iPhone will just be another piece of hardware w a close wall garden & exclusive games Sony really played themselves looking at PS in the short term & chasing short term minimal profit
"Sony has also been rumored to be considering a PlayStation PC launcher after references to it were spotted in Marvel’s Spider-Man Remastered for PC last year. Sony first started using a PlayStation PC label in 2021, shortly after it acquired Nixxes."
PlayStation PC launcher references spotted in Spider-Man Remastered for PC
PC launcher might include cross-buy support
There was no reference there to a PC launcher. It was clickbait from VGC.
Sony data proves it has been positive for Sony. Because Sony's games are better and aren't released day one on a game sub and (non-GaaS) PC.
Specifically, hardcore/core enthusiasts who are high ARPU spenders console-side but have no issue switching to PC if enough reasons are given for them to do so.
Those particular types are probably at most 5%-10% of the total install base (so for a typical 100 million PS install base, max 10 million). BUT, they represent a lot more than that in terms of spending dollar. I'd guess somewhere between 25%-30% of lifetime console ecosystem revenue comes from that 10 million.
So imagine them taking that spending money elsewhere. PS does, what, $25 billion a FY in revenue. So over say 8 years, that's $200 billion. Imagine losing up to $60 billion of that? Now it wouldn't actually be $60 billion because those going from console to PC would still buy the 1P games when they go to PC. Heck, a lot might still buy the console JUST to play 1P games (but ONLY 1P games) Day 1 due to FOMO. So shave off $3.5 billion (assume 70% of that 10 million still buy a console) and $11.76 billion (assume Sony releases 3 $70 games a year and that 7 million buy them on console every year for 8 years).
So instead of losing out on $60 billion, Sony's "only" missing out on $44.74 billion...from those hardcore/core enthusiasts who switch. That's revenue. However, they'd be losing a lot (relatively speaking) in net profits because those hardcore/core gaming leaving would have been the ones to sub to PS+ Premium, spend the most in MTX/add-on content, 3P games (where Sony gets a net 30% cut each sale on PS) etc. Also, this doesn't reflect the portion of other hardcore/core enthusiasts, casuals and mainstream who might end up not buying a console because of those highest ARPU hardcore/core enthusiasts who either skip the console in the launch phase or only buy one (and just the base, no Pro) to play the 1P games.
Let's say the total addressable hardcore/core enthusiast market size for PS consoles is 25%, casuals is 35%, and mainstream is 40%. So out of a 100 million install base, 25 million would be hardcore/core enthusiast (and you could split that between 50% High ARPU and 50% Medium & Lower ARPU (for the hardcore/core enthusiast segment)), 35 million would be casuals (lower-end core & light core gamers, not necessarily enthusiasts, etc.), and 40 million would be mainstream (extremely casual). This doesn't mean that these segments all "jump in" at the same time though, and that's exactly where it would get messy for Sony just as it has for Microsoft.
For example, with Xbox, this doesn't mean that of the 26 million Series owners, 10.4 million are mainstream gamers. Mainstream gamers don't usually jump into a console gen during its first half, which is where we're still technically at. I'd also argue that the further "down" the ranks you get, the less likely that type is to buy multiple consoles. So a mainstream gamer is the least likely to own multiple systems, as an example, while a hardcore gamer will probably own many if not all of them. Hardcore = greatest overlap, Mainstream = least overlap, basically.
Getting back to the PlayStation example, the reason why I say "only" missing out on $44.74 billion over the course of the console gen wouldn't tell the whole story, is because the habits of hardcore/core enthusiasts would have a knock-on effect towards those at the "lower" tiers. That effect would diminish with each additional tier, maybe, but then you have to consider the typical spending power at each tier to really see how bad things could get. For example, let's assume that for each tier, there's a Spending Influence Factor (SIF) that applies to the following tier. The rate of the SIF declines at each new tier before applying to the next in line, and the SIF represents what percentage of the Total Addressable Market Segment (TAM) of that tier type ends up buying a console.
(1) [High ARPU Hardcore/Core Enthusiast] TAM = 10%, SIF = 0.60% > (2) [Medium ARPU Hardcore/Core Enthusiast] TAM = 10%, SIF = 0.65% > (3) [Light ARPU Hardcore/Core Enthusiast] TAM = 5%, SIF = 0.70% > (4) [Casual] TAM = 35%, SIF = 0.80% > (5) [Mainstream] TAM = 40%
And we're already working off the basis of:
1: A typical 100 million PS install base
2: 40% of the Hardcore/Core Enthusiast segment (or, 10 million) being the Highest ARPU in console ecosystem
3: Highest ARPU Hardcore/Core Enthusiast segment accounting for upwards 30% revenue in a console generation
4: Medium ARPU Hardcore/Core Enthusiast segment accounting for upwards 20% revenue in a console generation
5: Light ARPU Hardcore/Core Enthusiast segment accounting for upwards 15% revenue in a console generation
6: Casual segment accounting for upwards 20% revenue in a console generation
7: Mainstream segment accounting for upwards 15% revenue in a console generation
8: Sony already losing 3 million High ARPU Hardcore/Core Enthusiasts to "other platforms" (i.e PC)
So let's focus on the 3 million departures for a second, and just assume they all go to PC and all still buy Sony's 1P games on Steam Day 1. They still aren't buying the console, so that's $1.5 billion gone in revenue, but assuming Sony released 3 games to PC a year (for 8 years) at $60 each and these 3 million bought them Day 1, that's still $4.32 billion retained in the PlayStation revenue stream, or ~ $3 billion profits from PC ports over the console generation after the Valve cut is removed.
We would already know from above that for a typical $200 billion console gen revenue amount, High ARPU Hardcore/Core Enthusiasts could account for up to $60 billion of that. Medium ARPU Hardcore/Core Enthusiasts could account for upwards $40 billion, Light ARPU Hardcore/Core Enthusiasts upwards $30 billion, Casuals up to $40 billion and Mainstream up to $30 billion. Knowing that, let's see the effects of SIF on the spending in each segment, and total install base (all based on a typical 100 million case):
[Revenue]
[High ARPU Hardcore/Enthusiast]: $60 billion - $1.5 Billion (hardware) - $17.28 billion* (projected 3P sales loss, assuming typical 20/80 1P/3P splits) = $41.22 billion (keep in mind I'm not including subscription services, MTX/add-on content OR peripherals in this, otherwise could probably shave off at least another $10 billion)
*More like $2 billion if just considering the 30% cut Sony would lose out on with drop in 3P B2P purchases from this segment.
[Medium ARPU Hardcore/Enthusiast]: $40 billion - $16 billion (SIF applied) = $24 billion
[Light ARPU Hardcore/Enthusiast]: $30 billion - $10.5 billion (SIF applied) = $19.5 billion
[Casual]: $40 billion - $12 billion (SIF applied) = $28 billion
[Mainstream]: $30 billion - $6 billion (SIF applied) = $24 billion
Or a potential revenue shift from a typical $200 billion console gen lifetime, to $136.72 billion - $152.28 billion, slightly under 33% revenue drop at worst. Now, let's see install base:
[Install Base]
[High ARPU Hardcore/Enthusiast]: 10 million - 3 million = 7 million
[Medium ARPU Hardcore/Enthusiast]: 10 million - 4 million = 6 million
[Light ARPU Hardcore/Enthusiast]: 5 million - 1.75 million = 3.25 million
[Casual]: 35 million - 10.5 million = 24.5 million
[Mainstream]: 40 million - 8 million = 32 million
Or a potential install base shift from a typical 100 million lifetime, to 72.75 million.
Now keep in mind, ALL of this is just my own speculation, and would be a worst-case scenario for Sony. It'd require them to basically both either commit to Day 1 PC for all games OR shorter windows for future ports (to the point where it will "feel" like Day 1 access anyway) and also do a launcher/storefront on PC that only really draws people in for 1P releases (plus has little to no monetization to offset console-side revenue drops).
It ALSO takes a best-case in the scenario of PS console owners going PC but still buying all 1P games there Day 1, Sony maintaining a release pipeline of 3 AAA titles per year, Sony still going for big 3P timed exclusives console-side (which would see much more ridicule if they did Day 1 PC simultaneously), and keep in mind I did not account for drops in sub revenue or peripheral sales, either.
Even so, you can already see a few things. For starters, total install base would drop to below PS3 levels, although that doesn't necessarily mean revenue or profit margins as low as PS3 era. While the PC revenue I mentioned earlier in a best-case of departing PS console owners going PC seems decent, especially when you look at the profits, actually break it down year-by-year. $3 billion over 8 years is ~ $375 million per year. It depends on a LOT of factors going Sony's way PC-wise, which will almost certainly not happen. And a good chunk of those profits would be eaten up by things console-side just to maintain a best-case scenario on that front (high 3P sales rates, sufficient subscription retention, peripheral sales etc.) such as licensing costs for 3P content into PS+, 3P exclusivity deals & marketing, escalating AAA development costs, etc.
Now install base-wise, I would expect Sony's worst-case to scale with whatever the actual peak install base-wise could have been. 100 million was just chosen as the typical; it could have a maximum of 125 million, as an example, which would probably shift the worst-case 72.75 million up to ~ 90 million, better than the PS3. However, losses in revenue would also increase to match, and other associated costs.
It'd basically be like I've always said: PlayStation as a brand is much healthier globally than Xbox was, so even if they took a similar trajectory, their "floor" would always be higher than Xbox's. But it assumes that any similar shift like Xbox business-wise would NOT mean declines in terms of IP retention, quality or consistency, nor declines in brand image/optics. All of those things got worst for Xbox over time and exacerbated its console decline on top of the PC initiative. I would not be surprised if some of that also occurred with PlayStation, so these "worst cases" could probably actually be worst than speculated as here.
Again, would they ever get as bad as Xbox's worst? No, because of the global popularity of the PlayStation brand. But seeing those revenues and especially profits potentially drop would not be pretty.
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Yes, a launcher for a rocket where we can put all the PlayStation executives (who support pc ports) in and fire it off into the sun
It's the usual Doom & Gloom preaching. How do we come from PS trophies becoming available on PC to Sony going Day & Date for game releases?
These are decisions which hsve been made in Shawn & Jim Ryan era. It will not have a significant impact on PlayStation, even if all future ports to PC will receive PS trophies. Sony will continue to release their exclusives first on PS and 2-3 years later on PC. Though Live Service games will launch same day as PS.
These are decisions which hsve been made in Shawn & Jim Ryan era. It will not have a significant impact on PlayStation, even if all future ports to PC will receive PS trophies. Sony will continue to release their exclusives first on PS and 2-3 years later on PC. Though Live Service games will launch same day as PS.
Also: If you go look at the comments under the PlayStation UK Twitter post for the GOT port, you'll see just how contentious and divisive the cumulative effects of these ports have become to many people.
To dismiss them as just "crying fanboys" or insignificants would be foolish because some decent portion probably fall into that high-ARPU hardcore/core enthusiast segment who are likely to either stop buying PlayStation consoles or only buy them for the 1P games out of FOMO.
As time goes on this starts to read as a cope because if these are ideas from an older era, the newer leads could just...shelve them? Games greenlit and partly funded by older heads get cancelled by new people in charge all the time, why can't that apply to stuff like this?
I think it's better to prepare for an acceleration of their multiplat plans to PC; whether that means they continue as-is but shorten the windows for ports some, or go Day 1 for non-GAAS titles or something in-between, it's more probable that is what is going to happen vs. expecting things to stay exactly as they are right now. Which, I mean, I personally would not have cared for, because I have no problem buying a console if the value is there. Exclusives are a part of that value, but apparently companies like Microsoft and even Sony do not feel that way anymore.
If Sony's intent to follow that path, well, Microsoft's had to pay a price for it. Sony will end up paying a similar price, it just won't be as bad because of the larger global health of PlayStation as a brand.
To dismiss them as just "crying fanboys" or insignificants would be foolish because some decent portion probably fall into that high-ARPU hardcore/core enthusiast segment who are likely to either stop buying PlayStation consoles or only buy them for the 1P games out of FOMO.
As time goes on this starts to read as a cope because if these are ideas from an older era, the newer leads could just...shelve them? Games greenlit and partly funded by older heads get cancelled by new people in charge all the time, why can't that apply to stuff like this?
I think it's better to prepare for an acceleration of their multiplat plans to PC; whether that means they continue as-is but shorten the windows for ports some, or go Day 1 for non-GAAS titles or something in-between, it's more probable that is what is going to happen vs. expecting things to stay exactly as they are right now. Which, I mean, I personally would not have cared for, because I have no problem buying a console if the value is there. Exclusives are a part of that value, but apparently companies like Microsoft and even Sony do not feel that way anymore.
If Sony's intent to follow that path, well, Microsoft's had to pay a price for it. Sony will end up paying a similar price, it just won't be as bad because of the larger global health of PlayStation as a brand.
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No worries. A lot of "known" websites ran with it due to VGC, so no wonder people thought the leak was true.
Nintendo better comes out and bring a powerfull nextgen console already at this point
That console should become the get go console to gamers from now on everyone can ignore or forfeit xbox and playstation
I did not check the others financials.
Only Ubisoft and the PC revenue increase around 10% after they left Steam... it is already over 5 years.
For Ubisoft it did not kill sales on PC.
That was a myth created by PC gamers... the official data shows the opposite for all the years after they left Steam (2018).
Edit - Take 2 (Rockstart doesn't have direct financials), EA, Besthesda and MS are hard to see if it increased or decreased PC sales because they don't share platform splits like Ubisoft.
The only real example we have is indeed Ubisoft and left Steam increased their revenue on PC games... it was a pretty good business move for them.
I'm curious for some data that shows that...
Because the only data we have (split in platforms) is from Ubisoft and their revenue split increased from PC after they left Steam.
It was the opposite of reject.
To put in simple... they made more money after left Steam than when they were on Steam.
Edit - When they left what happened with games...
After Skipping Steam, The Division 2 Sees Uplay Sales Grow 10X Over Original
The Division 2 sales on Uplay are 10X better than the first game; PC sales overall are rising at Ubisoft.
www.gamespot.com
Ubisoft’s Uplay revenue is up 73% compared to last year
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