[Forbes] PlayStation Is Still A Hit Machine While Xbox Hasn’t Even Started Catching Up

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Is he expecting or hoping Xbox to catch up? Crazy.

And to be fair what is impossible about Ragnarok matching GoW scores?

Is the article posters so low minded?

You know how these reviewers be like these days. Never can tell sometimes. I'm still kind of laughing at the IGN Korea review because they used the game as soapbox for their own issues with AAA games, but I'm laughing a lot more at the people acting like there is some extreme outrage over that review in general.

Here's the thing.

GOW - 'GOW'

And by the time XGS produces a game like GOW and TLOU 2 by 2030-2033, PS Studios will be making games at the quality that we can't even imagine. XGS will never be able to catch up with PS Studios.

Thy will never catch up no matter who they buy. Sony just has too many in house powerhouse studios.

It's a culture & experience thing. Sony's teams have stayed largely stable in terms of key members, over many, even dozens, of years. They have gained experience from previous games feeding directly into successive games, and sharing those experiences among other teams on other game projects.

You can't simply buy experience. We've seen MS try it with The Initiative, but those team members still need to get together and have some sort of history and shared working experience with each other, and that's on top of having strong leadership. All the money in the world can't simply "buy" you that, I think that's a lesson MS's learned really hard with The Initiative (and in different ways, 343i) and that they'll have to learn while managing those acquisitions over the long-term.

As far as them 'catching up to Sony', I kind of think it depends on genre. Forza Motorsport's generally on par with Gran Turismo in terms of high-quality sim racers, though it's easy to have preferences to one over the other. Sony actually needs an answer to Forza Horizon IMO; they have the IP and talent to do it, but maybe not the interest. Sony don't really have an equivalent to Flight Sim (although that is technically a game made by a 3P with MS's help), and MS probably have an advantage in the RTS space over Sony as well (again though, Sony have the talent there and IP like the HFW Strike table game to do something there, it's just down to if the interest is there).

However, for action-adventure games in general (1P or 3P), platformers, open-world, story-driven games...Sony handily outstrips MS there and has done so for at least a decade if not longer. And that especially extends to games that tap into the mainstream mindshare/cache and are part of the zeitgeist; the only game of that caliber MS has had like that over the past decade is Minecraft, which they had to purchase. In terms of industry-leading games (either in terms of genre, graphics/animation, game design, story, some mixture of that etc.), Sony have similarly been dog-walking Microsoft for a long time now.

So essentially, in the most important areas that would garner them the most stature and mindshare among mainstream gamers and the industry, Microsoft are absolutely behind both Sony and Nintendo, and that's going to be very hard for them to catch up with in, if ever. That's part of the reason they are making some of these big acquisitions but getting big IP that can generate lots of money like TES and COD or Candy Crush is only part of what weighs into the other stuff and on its own doesn't garner as much accolades or influence among the creative side of the audience or industry as some seem to think.

 

[peter42O]

Not to burst your bubble but we are now in year three of this gen. It’ll probably be around a six-seven year generation as is typical, meaning we are already going to be hitting the halfway point in a year or so.

It’s freaking over for Xbox this gen already. You just can’t give up that much time and distance for years, and expect to have a real impact. Yeah they can still release a couple of good games, but Sony and Nintendo aren’t going to slow down or stop doing their thing, and MS is coming across like they have no direction and no real clue what to do. Of course they are constantly hearing their customers “loud and clear.” What’s that done for any of us so far?

No one can burst my bubble. Hehehe.

I'm expecting this generation to last 8 years minimum and I do expect mid-gen consoles from both Microsoft and Sony.

I agree with you but only to a certain extent because I was never expecting Microsoft to "win" this generation. At most, I expect them to "win" back NA and to close the gap in Europe by about half which if they accomplish that, it's already a huge impact going into the next generation. Too many people especially non-Xbox fans were expecting way too much from Microsoft where as I was always expecting this generation to be a "reset" and build towards future generations.

If by the time this generation ends, I get a few game of the year winners and they give me some great or better games like I had from Sony last generation with PS4, then my expectations for Microsoft going into next generation will be what my expectations for Sony are for this generation. Too many people are looking at Microsoft as if they'll match Sony but im not looking for that or expecting that whatsoever. My expectations are a lot more realistic and grounded.

While they've only given me two (Gears Tactics and Halo Infinite) first party games this generation thus far, they were an 8.0/10 and a 9.5/10 as well as being my 2021 game of the year respectively so compared to last generation, they've already done better for me personally. Compared to Sony, including GOWR, it will be a tie for GOTY as I am fully expecting GOWR to be my 2022 goty and they gave me three other games in Miles, Ratchet and HFW with a 9.0/10 rating. Will Sony be ahead of Microsoft after 2022 for me personally? Yes.

But they should be ahead due to Microsoft having to deal with contracts from Arkane, Tango Gameworks as well as from Obsidian and InXile early on so because of that, my expectations were lower coming into this generation and while delaying Redfall and Starfield this year was a huge disappointment, once 2023 gets going for me, in all honesty, im not going to care about the dead 2022. Hell, I haven't cared since June because I knew they were riding out the year which is fine because if their games aren't ready, let them have the time they need to ensure the game(s) are better than they would have been if rushed out.

In general, Microsoft is coming off Xbox One which was a bad generation and even worse when you compare it to Xbox 360 or PlayStation 4 for that matter. Coming into this generation, all I wanted to see was Microsoft investing in studios and more games. Acquiring what will be two AAA publishers was completely unexpected but very welcomed because it shows me that their commitment to Xbox not just for today or tomorrow but for generations to come is what I have wanted them to do for over a decade and they're finally doing it.

Now, will all of these investments pay off with good to great to excellent games? I believe that it will because they've already done better than the last decade plus. Their lowest rated game on Open Critic is 77 for Ghostwire Tokyo and As Dusk Falls. They have four games in the 80's with Gears Tactics (83), Halo Infinite (87), Deathloop (88) and Psychonauts 2 (89) along with having two games in the 90's with Flight Simulator (92) and Forza Horizon 5 (92).

Granted, not every game is of interest to me but I do prefer high quality games that aren't for me personally over low quality games that are for me personally. After Xbox One, I just want to see better quality games and for them not to rush them out. If a game needs a year delay for example, I want Microsoft to do just that. While the quantity is lacking compared to Xbox One, it's the quality that matters more to me and I would much rather have less games but of a higher quality than more games being at a lower quality.

So in general and for me personally, while 2022 has been a huge disappointment, I stopped caring about this year back in June. All I care about is 2023 being great for me as an Xbox fan. Microsoft does this and I will be a happy Xbox fan and gamer. Plus, once the June showcase was over, I knew Microsoft was just going to ride out 2022 regardless of how it's looked at or perceived and while I will admit that 2022 sucked as an Xbox fan, in all honesty, I can't do anything about it and if their other games outside of Redfall and Starfield weren't going to be ready to replace them, then all I can do is ride out 2022 which we're just about over and done with and hope that they don't fuck up 2023 like they did 2022.

 

[Airbus]

"PlayStation Is Still A Hit Machine While Xbox Hasn’t Even Started Catching Up"​

Wth are ypu guys talking about

No playstation game can reach this epicness

Mm..mmgh...

Schplooong !!!

 

[Vertigo]

The biggest thing Xbox has for the holiday is the Wakanda Edition series X and a PS3 port in Persona 5.

No game adaptation. A movie crossover for braindead Marvel garbage.

Epic fail.

That’s how bad of a gaming company MS is.


This gen is over. It’s Sony’s and it barely started.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Tassi is pretty spot on.

I don’t disagree and expecting PS5 to steamroll Series S/X at this point for the remainder of the gen.

Only thing I'm looking forward to from MS is Avowed, and it's been almost radio silence since it was first unveiled.

Fable in 2026, and Elder Scrolls in 2028 really ain't gonna cut it.

If Sony can keep putting out games like H:FW, GT7, Ragnorak, Spiderman 2, Factions 2 etc they will stay far ahead. Their game development is not only superior, it's also more efficient and much better managed.

If RedFall and Starfield are mid at best, or Starfield gets delayed to 2024, and we STILL don't get release dates for Hellblade II and Avowed, and an update for Perfect Dark reboot or Everwild (not even saying they need to be ready for 2023, just new footage with some gameplay so we can MAYBE look forward to them in 2024), it's going to be a scary year for Xbox, honestly.

They may be getting some big 3P games like SFVI for example, but so is PS5, and the majority of the audience for those are going to default to PS4/5 anyway. Just the threat of FF XVI and Spiderman 2 alone is going to be devastating for Xbox if they don't have some 1P in order and going above & beyond. I still think Starfield's getting delayed to at least H2 2023; RedFall is probably coming H1 2023 but it needs to be a much bigger hit than Arkane's other games to have much an effect. Forza is Forza; the new one's not going to suddenly change things up for the brand but it'll at least be a quality sim racer.

PS5 just has so much momentum now: production's finally reaching normal levels, GOW Ragnarok's going to wreck shit up, PSVR2 is gearing up for release, Forespoken is right around the corner, FF XVI only a little after that and Spiderman 2 sometime Fall 2023, Stellar Blade also coming in 2023 and the real chance TLOU Part 2 Factions will also drop in 2023, all among the big events.

I'm not saying Xbox doesn't have interesting stuff coming 2023; there's Starfield, RedFall, Forza Motorsport, Atomic Heart, (maybe) STALKER 2. But we already know STALKER 2 is a 3-month deal with Xbox (maybe MS extended it?), Atomic Heart's coming to PS5 as well, and we don't know where Starfield & RedFall are gonna fall quality-wise. In fact, a good deal of the excitement I had for Starfield prior to June is gone because it feels like Bethesda are more about quantity over quality (and the June footage just didn't present that well at all).

That's another thing about all this acquisition talk, too, that kind of pisses me off. All the people rooting (praying) MS get ABK just focus on how much money MS make and whether PS will still get COD. But where are the new games out of these acquisitions coming for Xbox that otherwise wouldn't have been made without the teams getting acquired? And are any of them more ambitious than stuff like Pentiment and Grounded (which, no disrespect, just don't seem very appealing to me)?

Oh well, it is what it is at this point. I also kind of think MS cancelling Project Keystone was a mistake because now with the possibility they'll raise the console prices next year, they won't have such a "cheap" entry point into Xbox with the Series S anymore. Project Keystone could've been that, and as a stream-only box wouldn't impede on software development for the other consoles.

I think the one big surprise MS could have for 2023, though, is Overdose. Depending on how that turns out, it could get a lot of traction for itself and Xbox as a brand. But that is a big maybe at this point, let alone it's ready for 2023. It being cloud-only already might act as a point against the game with some folks, though, because that'll make GamePass a requirement. It's an interesting way to try pushing GamePass subs up, but it's a HUGE gamble.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

So many of xbox studios games have been notably riddled with issues and false starts on their projects it’s kind of hard to believe their games will set the bar on release.

I hope the games are good because it will be nice to have competition but i dont think a lot of those studios were ever GREAT studios to begin with. Inxile makes good games, not great games, the best thing obsidian has made was New Vegas, compulsion sucks, double fine has always been a fine AA developer, 343 sucks, coalition has potential, ninja theory outside of graphics has always been lackluster even when they were exclusively making sony games…etc

The thing is, this wouldn't necessarily matter if there was strong leadership to help the studios grow in ability and ambition. Naughty Dog put out one uber-trash game for 3DO before actually finding their footing under Sony with Crash Bandicoot. Insomniac have gradually gotten better and better since the PS1 days moving up from Disruptor to Spyro to Rachet & Clank to Spiderman. That's real growth and that growth was guided by PlayStation leadership.

Xbox division has not shown the ability to do this consistently. After Halo 3 they somehow thought Bungie weren't good enough or ready to branch out with a new IP, hence why Bungie wanted out. Rare is just a sad story of getting by mostly on name-only, they peaked with Nintendo in the late SNES & N64 period but it didn't have to be that way if Xbox had better leadership. Obsidian seem like they are focusing on smaller-scale games and remaining relatively flat with growth, at least until we see what's up with Avowed & Outer Worlds 2. They seem to WANT Playground to grow and diversify, but they could have done it more organically (like with a F-Zero/Wipeout-style open-world racing game, or having some Playground members work with Obsidian on Avowed & Outer Worlds 2 in order to get experience making those games BEFORE jumping right into Fable!).

Just lots of bad leadership & management mistakes all around when it comes to pushing the creative capabilities of the in-house teams.

 

[Vertigo]

Starfield is going to be huge. There’s no doubt there. I’m betting in the ballpark of 30 million within the first two years.

However, okay… Xbox had Morrowind, Oblivion. It’s always had the edge of favoring that pc player.

This is not the end all be all. Same goes for call of duty irregardless of all the cockblocking Sony is doing.

Sony’s brand is stupid strong. Even what you’d think would be niche games like Ghosts of Tsushima and Days Gone STILL find their way towards 10 million. This is absolutely friggin huge. This is why they can increase price to fight inflation and recession costs for game development and still beat the competition. It’s the PlayStation brand. It’s got a rocket on its back right now.

It’s stuff like God of War that made this bed for them. PlayStation gamers trust them the same way Nintendo fans trust Nintendo. That is only earned in time.

Microsoft does not have that.

Dude, OG Xbox was incredible. They came out the gate swinging. Just look at where epic and Bungie are now from then (not with ms). The OG Xbox changed my life as gamer aging away from Nintendo. MS done fucked up. They’re rebuilding from scratch and it still seems far away.

 

[Yobo]

If GoW was considered as "raising the bar" you can't just do the same thing and expect to get the same kind of critical reception.

The reason most people thought it wouldn't hit the same scores is that doing more of the same, generally speaking, does not have the same impact as something that is new and fresh, and therefore it won't score as high.

Pretty straightforward.

Quality doesn't always show up in a check list, especially when Santa Monica are known for hiding the majority of details on their games

 

[Yobo]

Starfield is going to be huge. There’s no doubt there. I’m betting in the ballpark of 30 million within the first two years.

However, okay… Xbox had Morrowind, Oblivion. It’s always had the edge of favoring that pc player.

This is not the end all be all. Same goes for call of duty irregardless of all the cockblocking Sony is doing.

Sony’s brand is stupid strong. Even what you’d think would be niche games like Ghosts of Tsushima and Days Gone STILL find their way towards 10 million. This is absolutely friggin huge. This is why they can increase price to fight inflation and recession costs for game development and still beat the competition. It’s the PlayStation brand. It’s got a rocket on its back right now.

It’s stuff like God of War that made this bed for them. PlayStation gamers trust them the same way Nintendo fans trust Nintendo. That is only earned in time.

Microsoft does not have that.

Dude, OG Xbox was incredible. They came out the gate swinging. Just look at where epic and Bungie are now from then (not with ms). The OG Xbox changed my life as gamer aging away from Nintendo. MS done fucked up. They’re rebuilding from scratch and it still seems far away.

30 million? So you're betting it's bigger than Elden Ring? Bigger than Skyrim on only two platforms vs 8 platforms. And it's going to sell 30 million despite being on Gamepass?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Starfield is going to be huge. There’s no doubt there. I’m betting in the ballpark of 30 million within the first two years.

Gotta keep in mind Starfield won't have PlayStation or Nintendo the why Skyrim did, and it technically isn't a TES game, either. 30 million's probably too much. If it hits really well, I can see maybe 10 million in two years and a high of 14 million (or something slightly north of that) lifetime.

There's also GamePass's effect to keep in mind here too.

However, okay… Xbox had Morrowind, Oblivion. It’s always had the edge of favoring that pc player.

This is not the end all be all. Same goes for call of duty irregardless of all the cockblocking Sony is doing.

Sony’s brand is stupid strong. Even what you’d think would be niche games like Ghosts of Tsushima and Days Gone STILL find their way towards 10 million. This is absolutely friggin huge. This is why they can increase price to fight inflation and recession costs for game development and still beat the competition. It’s the PlayStation brand. It’s got a rocket on its back right now.

I think games like Ghosts and Days Gone , in addition to just being really polished high-quality games (well, Ghosts is. Days had some big launch issues but they eventually patched it up), benefit from the strength of PlayStation's other 1P games and console exclusives in general. They also benefit from rapport and cache they've been building with gamers for over two decades rather consistently.

Those things get you a lot of goodwill, earned goodwill, and it's partly why they can do stuff like price increases as you mentioned. I'm curious how MS increasing Xbox Series prices next year (if they follow through on it) will go over. Something tells me it may have a negative impact on system sales, particularly Series S, but that can be mitigated some if they time the increase with Forza Motorsport & RedFall's releases.

That said, the momentum Sony has, will make any Xbox price increase look worst by comparison because there are things PlayStation has going that Xbox simply has no answer to value-wise. Xbox has nothing on the scale of GOW Ragnarok right now, it has no VR device coming. GPU already technically costs more than PS+ Premium. That's hard to compete with in general, particularly for Xbox given where they are at currently.

It’s stuff like God of War that made this bed for them. PlayStation gamers trust them the same way Nintendo fans trust Nintendo. That is only earned in time.

Microsoft does not have that.

Yep, sadly true. Not that Sony & Nintendo have it, but that Microsoft doesn't. They had a chance to establish it, but shat the bed.

Dude, OG Xbox was incredible. They came out the gate swinging. Just look at where epic and Bungie are now from then (not with ms). The OG Xbox changed my life as gamer aging away from Nintendo. MS done fucked up. They’re rebuilding from scratch and it still seems far away.

The team back then should've made it a priority to iterate on key games from OG Xbox that could've developed into notable IP, like Jade Empire and Chronicles of Riddick. Or from the 360 gen, like maybe continuing with PGR (and just bring Forza Horizon gameplay to a new PGR game), Lost Odyssey, and worked closer with Silicon Knights so Too Human didn't bomb.

Some of the few genuinely great games they've had a hand in like Ori and Cuphead are either now effectively shelved, or MS failed to associate with the Xbox brand when they had the chance and are basically bigger outside of Xbox (Switch, PC, Netflix) than they ever were on the Xbox platform.

30 million? So you're betting it's bigger than Elden Ring? Bigger than Skyrim on only two platforms vs 8 platforms. And it's going to sell 30 million despite being on Gamepass?

Yeah, I think 30 mil is being super generous. Skyrim partly only did as many units as it did because it was available on Xbox, PlayStation, PC, Switch etc. and it sold its 30 million or so over the course of a decade.

Starfield doesn't have PlayStation, it doesn't have Nintendo, so that's already two strikes against it hitting 30 million. PC GamePass is growing a lot (according to Phil Spencer), so that is probably less copies being sold except among the hardcore who like to mod Bethesda games, they will just outright buy it anyway. I have to imagine Xbox GamePass is going to cut into some of the potential sales.

Still though, I think it can be MS's best-selling 1P game in a long time. Lifetime I think it can do about 10 million - 12 million, maybe even up to 13 million depending on how good the game is and how they go about pricing for sales over time. That would make it the best-selling MS 1P game ever, beating Halo 3 (~ 12 million). But it's gonna take maybe 4 or so years for it to hit those numbers, if it ever does.

Of course there's still the (very small) chance Starfield gets ported to PS5 and the next Switch some time in the future. I personally never see it happening but if it does, those can probably add another 4-5 million total between them. I don't see Starfield ever nearing Skyrim's sales totals but it can still do pretty great numbers IF it's a huge deal. The competition will probably be too much for it though to reach those numbers regardless, but it may come close to them.

 

[peter42O]

If RedFall and Starfield are mid at best, or Starfield gets delayed to 2024, and we STILL don't get release dates for Hellblade II and Avowed, and an update for Perfect Dark reboot or Everwild (not even saying they need to be ready for 2023, just new footage with some gameplay so we can MAYBE look forward to them in 2024), it's going to be a scary year for Xbox, honestly.

Personally, im expecting Redfall to be in the low 80's but end up being Arkane's most popular and successful game while Starfield gets back the RPG crown from CDPR who's had it since The Witcher III: Wild Hunt. I also see Starfield being a 95 rated game and being what Skyrim was over a decade ago. I'm expecting a gameplay teaser trailer at The Game Awards for Perfect Dark with gameplay trailers for Hellblade 2, Avowed and others in June 2023 at the Xbox Games Showcase which will most likely be part of E3 and in front of a live audience. I'm not expecting Microsoft to show much between now and then. As for Everwild, I still believe that the game should be cancelled but that's just my own personal opinion.

They may be getting some big 3P games like SFVI for example, but so is PS5, and the majority of the audience for those are going to default to PS4/5 anyway. Just the threat of FF XVI and Spiderman 2 alone is going to be devastating for Xbox if they don't have some 1P in order and going above & beyond. I still think Starfield's getting delayed to at least H2 2023; RedFall is probably coming H1 2023 but it needs to be a much bigger hit than Arkane's other games to have much an effect. Forza is Forza; the new one's not going to suddenly change things up for the brand but it'll at least be a quality sim racer.

Spider Man 2 will be huge no doubt but it took FFXV almost 6 years to hit 10m in sales and this time around, it's not multi-platform. I think a lot of people overestimating what FFXVI is going to do. FF VII Rebirth will do better than FFXVI. Already mentioned what I believe Redfall and Starfield will be above but I do agree that Starfield gets delayed to the second half of 2023. I'm honestly expecting a full one year delay which in all honesty, im perfectly fine with. Forza Motorsport will get back it's simulation racing crown and be a 90+ easily. For 2023, im expecting Redfall, Ghostwire Tokyo (port), Forza Motorsport, Contraband and Starfield along with a fewer smaller titles like Age of Empires series and Project Belfrey which is similar to Dragon's Crown and sounds really good if the current rumors are true.

PS5 just has so much momentum now: production's finally reaching normal levels, GOW Ragnarok's going to wreck shit up, PSVR2 is gearing up for release, Forespoken is right around the corner, FF XVI only a little after that and Spiderman 2 sometime Fall 2023, Stellar Blade also coming in 2023 and the real chance TLOU Part 2 Factions will also drop in 2023, all among the big events.

I agree with this to an extent. I think PSVR 2 bombs after launch unless Sony has some top tier internal studios working on games which I highly doubt they're going to do, Forspoken even with good reviews is going to bomb sales wise as Square Enix always has high expectations that they rarely meet. Rest I agree with.

I'm not saying Xbox doesn't have interesting stuff coming 2023; there's Starfield, RedFall, Forza Motorsport, Atomic Heart, (maybe) STALKER 2. But we already know STALKER 2 is a 3-month deal with Xbox (maybe MS extended it?), Atomic Heart's coming to PS5 as well, and we don't know where Starfield & RedFall are gonna fall quality-wise. In fact, a good deal of the excitement I had for Starfield prior to June is gone because it feels like Bethesda are more about quantity over quality (and the June footage just didn't present that well at all).

There's a lot of stuff coming to Xbox and while the third party games are mostly multi-platform, they're day one on Game Pass. Atomic Heart, possibly Stalker 2, Wo Long, Flintlock, Lies of P and many others will definitely fill out the gaps in between Microsoft's first party releases. And of course, there will be plenty of stuff that we don't yet know about. I disagree with quantity over quality in regards to Starfield because if that was true, it wouldn't have been delayed.

That's another thing about all this acquisition talk, too, that kind of pisses me off. All the people rooting (praying) MS get ABK just focus on how much money MS make and whether PS will still get COD. But where are the new games out of these acquisitions coming for Xbox that otherwise wouldn't have been made without the teams getting acquired? And are any of them more ambitious than stuff like Pentiment and Grounded (which, no disrespect, just don't seem very appealing to me)?

For me personally, it's about what could be after the acquisition. I'm hoping that COD becomes a platform with Infinity Ward, Sledgehammer Games and Raven Software working on it and releasing post launch content while all the other studios can go work on other projects and IP's. Of course, this would take a few years but they need to be taken off COD in order for any of that to happen. Aside from that, it's the hope of getting Diablo IV in Game Pass because why would I buy it if I don't have to? And no, I don't care about ownership which I see as highly overrated in this day and age. In regards to them being ambitious or not, that would remain to be seen but again, before any of that could happen, those studios would have to be taken off COD which is what im hoping for.

And then, there's Blizzard who have been a shell of their former self under Activision and Kotick. Under Microsoft, they can only get better and with everything I have read and seen in regards to Diablo IV, it definitely seems like they're finally heading in the right direction. And personally, im hoping StarCraft Ghost gets resurrected.

Oh well, it is what it is at this point. I also kind of think MS cancelling Project Keystone was a mistake because now with the possibility they'll raise the console prices next year, they won't have such a "cheap" entry point into Xbox with the Series S anymore. Project Keystone could've been that, and as a stream-only box wouldn't impede on software development for the other consoles.

This I disagree with simply because instead of having a streaming box, they'll just get the Game Pass App onto Smart TV's and who knows, they could always bring back the streaming box down the line plus right now, it would be too many consoles especially when technically, you don't need that streaming box because you could always buy a used Xbox One and stream the games through that console which will give the same results. I also don't think that they're in a rush for streaming. They want to get it right and make sure the tech is fully where they want it to be.

I think the one big surprise MS could have for 2023, though, is Overdose. Depending on how that turns out, it could get a lot of traction for itself and Xbox as a brand. But that is a big maybe at this point, let alone it's ready for 2023. It being cloud-only already might act as a point against the game with some folks, though, because that'll make GamePass a requirement. It's an interesting way to try pushing GamePass subs up, but it's a HUGE gamble.

I agree with this but like you said, I don't see it being a 2023 title whatsoever. If I had to predict a year, I would say 2025 at the earliest.

 

[Hezekiah]

If RedFall and Starfield are mid at best, or Starfield gets delayed to 2024, and we STILL don't get release dates for Hellblade II and Avowed, and an update for Perfect Dark reboot or Everwild (not even saying they need to be ready for 2023, just new footage with some gameplay so we can MAYBE look forward to them in 2024), it's going to be a scary year for Xbox, honestly.

They may be getting some big 3P games like SFVI for example, but so is PS5, and the majority of the audience for those are going to default to PS4/5 anyway. Just the threat of FF XVI and Spiderman 2 alone is going to be devastating for Xbox if they don't have some 1P in order and going above & beyond. I still think Starfield's getting delayed to at least H2 2023; RedFall is probably coming H1 2023 but it needs to be a much bigger hit than Arkane's other games to have much an effect. Forza is Forza; the new one's not going to suddenly change things up for the brand but it'll at least be a quality sim racer.

PS5 just has so much momentum now: production's finally reaching normal levels, GOW Ragnarok's going to wreck shit up, PSVR2 is gearing up for release, Forespoken is right around the corner, FF XVI only a little after that and Spiderman 2 sometime Fall 2023, Stellar Blade also coming in 2023 and the real chance TLOU Part 2 Factions will also drop in 2023, all among the big events.

I'm not saying Xbox doesn't have interesting stuff coming 2023; there's Starfield, RedFall, Forza Motorsport, Atomic Heart, (maybe) STALKER 2. But we already know STALKER 2 is a 3-month deal with Xbox (maybe MS extended it?), Atomic Heart's coming to PS5 as well, and we don't know where Starfield & RedFall are gonna fall quality-wise. In fact, a good deal of the excitement I had for Starfield prior to June is gone because it feels like Bethesda are more about quantity over quality (and the June footage just didn't present that well at all).

That's another thing about all this acquisition talk, too, that kind of pisses me off. All the people rooting (praying) MS get ABK just focus on how much money MS make and whether PS will still get COD. But where are the new games out of these acquisitions coming for Xbox that otherwise wouldn't have been made without the teams getting acquired? And are any of them more ambitious than stuff like Pentiment and Grounded (which, no disrespect, just don't seem very appealing to me)?

Oh well, it is what it is at this point. I also kind of think MS cancelling Project Keystone was a mistake because now with the possibility they'll raise the console prices next year, they won't have such a "cheap" entry point into Xbox with the Series S anymore. Project Keystone could've been that, and as a stream-only box wouldn't impede on software development for the other consoles.

I think the one big surprise MS could have for 2023, though, is Overdose. Depending on how that turns out, it could get a lot of traction for itself and Xbox as a brand. But that is a big maybe at this point, let alone it's ready for 2023. It being cloud-only already might act as a point against the game with some folks, though, because that'll make GamePass a requirement. It's an interesting way to try pushing GamePass subs up, but it's a HUGE gamble.

I agree about Starfield, I think it will come out second half of next year. I wouldn't be surprised if it's pushed to 2024. Lots hanging on that game.

I like Arkane, but Redfall doesn't look like their best work and definitely not a game I think that will drive up subs. Similar to Deathloop maybe you sub for a month to play it if you have some interest or to fill some time.

Forza interests me, but as a racing game automatically it's not a huge audience. I used to play GT all the time as a teenager, but that's changed a lot over the years. I haven't bought GT7 yet bcause there are games like Elden Ring, Cyberpunk, Dying Light 2, and GoW which I have lined-up instead. Plus there's been so much Forza, and this is a next-gen version of the same game essentially.

I've heard talk about Avowed and Hellblade releasing next year but I don't see any reason for optimism for that being the case for either game. As you say we need to see something from them because any momentum for them has really fizzled out, outside of very light gameplay elements shown for Hellblade last year.

I think in the short and medium-term MS will have to get something out, and continue to push GamePass hard. Certainly I don't think they can afford to up its price given how lacking their first-party pipeline is.

Certainly for Sony GoW Ragnorak is going to be huge, and this time next year Spiderman 2 is going to be the same. I don't think anything will be on its level - not even Starfield which I imagine will be a bigger deal on PC than Xbox. Sony has also done some big third-party deals to help supplement their first-party work in 2023 and 2024.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Starfield is going to be huge. There’s no doubt there. I’m betting in the ballpark of 30 million within the first two years.

However, okay… Xbox had Morrowind, Oblivion. It’s always had the edge of favoring that pc player.

This is not the end all be all. Same goes for call of duty irregardless of all the cockblocking Sony is doing.

Sony’s brand is stupid strong. Even what you’d think would be niche games like Ghosts of Tsushima and Days Gone STILL find their way towards 10 million. This is absolutely friggin huge. This is why they can increase price to fight inflation and recession costs for game development and still beat the competition. It’s the PlayStation brand. It’s got a rocket on its back right now.

It’s stuff like God of War that made this bed for them. PlayStation gamers trust them the same way Nintendo fans trust Nintendo. That is only earned in time.

Microsoft does not have that.

Dude, OG Xbox was incredible. They came out the gate swinging. Just look at where epic and Bungie are now from then (not with ms). The OG Xbox changed my life as gamer aging away from Nintendo. MS done fucked up. They’re rebuilding from scratch and it still seems far away.

This basically describes where I'm at with MS.

MS sort of helped me get back into console gaming after PC gaming sort of took over for me post-SNES days. OG Xbox -> Xbox 360 were my favorite consoles. But that didn't last even the entire 360 generation.

Since then Sony has dominated my console love, and MS has really just been nothing to me.

Sony embracing open world games has really made me a huge fan. As everyone here knows I still have my gripes with some of their gameplay decisions, but the fact I am able to still play through games with shit like forced cutscenes actually is a testament to how awesome those games are (outside of those objectively poor game design elements ).

 

[Yurinka]

I agreed, but its not a certainty. If MS open their wallet they can yank some of SIE best talent. SIE have lost talent before.
PS is in the position its in today because of its talent or human capital, they can be poached.

Do you have any examples of any talent leaving Sony to join MS?

Having the IPs they have at Sony why they would go to work in the MS IPs? Having the teams and management they have at Sony why would they go to work with the teams and management MS has? If Sony constantly releases hit new IPs why they would go to MS to be in stuck or decreasing IPs and failed new IPs? At Sony aren't poor, they also have plenty of money. In fact since games sell way more the devs will get way more money from bonuses, not only with salaries.

Starfield is going to be huge. There’s no doubt there. I’m betting in the ballpark of 30 million within the first two years.

It won't sell 30M at all, specially considering it won't be -at least at launch- in PS, where AAA games sell the most. It will be day one on GP, meaning a ton of players interested on it won't buy it. Let's see if it even sells 10M or 15M.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Personally, im expecting Redfall to be in the low 80's but end up being Arkane's most popular and successful game while Starfield gets back the RPG crown from CDPR who's had it since The Witcher III: Wild Hunt. I also see Starfield being a 95 rated game and being what Skyrim was over a decade ago. I'm expecting a gameplay teaser trailer at The Game Awards for Perfect Dark with gameplay trailers for Hellblade 2, Avowed and others in June 2023 at the Xbox Games Showcase which will most likely be part of E3 and in front of a live audience. I'm not expecting Microsoft to show much between now and then. As for Everwild, I still believe that the game should be cancelled but that's just my own personal opinion.

Something between an 82 - 85 for RedFall sounds realistic honestly, which would be good, but regardless of score I just don't think it has a lot going on in order to be "that" kind of huge main draw or really get lots of heads turning. Ghosts of Tsushima was "just" an 84 MC but it really struck a chord with the zeitgeist and drew in lots of people both critically and commercially. So MC score isn't always reflective of a game's quality or what effect it can have in inspiring/influencing other games, gamers & the industry for example.

I can't see Starfield getting anything CLOSE to a 95 unless it is completely bug-free and represents a clear step over Skyrim and the Fallout games in practice. I know Skyrim itself got high MC scores but remember that was by 2011 standards, and game reviewers were generally easier on games, AAA games included, at that time. Skyrim also had a less competitive environment and standards for open-world games weren't as tough as they are today. Personally, I haven't seen anything from Starfield footage so far that shows it'll be a league beyond what Bethesda's done prior with the latter Fallout games or Skyrim.

To me Starfield's looking more like an 85 - 87 MC game if reviews don't give points off the "potential" from PC modders who are technically not Bethesda employees (nor that content being available at the time of review), so that should not weigh into the game's score because by that logic virtually every game should have updated review scores over time as many get mod support on PC. Why make that exception for Bethesda's games?

I doubt we're getting anything for PD this year, but maybe June Showcase? Hellblade 2, tbh we should get some more in-depth gameplay THIS year at the TGAs, but I doubt it. Same for Avowed. At least one of those need to be ready for 2023 release IMO. Everwild was probably internally "cancelled" and rebooted into something we likely could have never guessed going by the 2020 footage. That could be for better or for worst.

Spider Man 2 will be huge no doubt but it took FFXV almost 6 years to hit 10m in sales and this time around, it's not multi-platform. I think a lot of people overestimating what FFXVI is going to do. FF VII Rebirth will do better than FFXVI. Already mentioned what I believe Redfall and Starfield will be above but I do agree that Starfield gets delayed to the second half of 2023. I'm honestly expecting a full one year delay which in all honesty, im perfectly fine with. Forza Motorsport will get back it's simulation racing crown and be a 90+ easily. For 2023, im expecting Redfall, Ghostwire Tokyo (port), Forza Motorsport, Contraband and Starfield along with a fewer smaller titles like Age of Empires series and Project Belfrey which is similar to Dragon's Crown and sounds really good if the current rumors are true.

The thing with FF XV though is that it was a troubled game that didn't really hit all its design goals/targets and had quite a few development issues. FF XVI is looking like the complete opposite of that: VERY focused, actually ahead of schedule, hitting its targets and everything else. The hype for that game is leagues ahead of what I remember for FF XV.

I really can't understand how you'd be okay with Starfield getting delayed to H2 2023; it's likely going to happen, but once again it'd be a complete failure on MS for misleading/poor communication. They gave H1 2023 back in May this year, but apparently that won't end up being a long enough delay? As for Forza, if it isn't anything more than a prettier Forza Motorsport, or especially if it has a controversial car system like FH5 or greedy MTX practices, I'd expect it to get dinged for that stuff the way GT7 did, otherwise it's going to make the reviews look suspect to me.

For Project Belfrey, I'm guessing it will PLAY something like Dragon's Crown but going by the previous games that dev have made, it visually will not be on Dragon Crown's level. The art style simply isn't there with that dev, nor do I think an aesthetic like Dragon Crown's is their goal, but if just speaking in terms of Western 2D games I don't think it'll have much on say Indivisible or Cuphead, aesthetically. And that kind of thing really helped boost those games in addition to strong gameplay.

But maybe they have different artists or whatnot working on that particular project and it'll look visually cooler, we'll see.

I agree with this to an extent. I think PSVR 2 bombs after launch unless Sony has some top tier internal studios working on games which I highly doubt they're going to do, Forspoken even with good reviews is going to bomb sales wise as Square Enix always has high expectations that they rarely meet. Rest I agree with.

They already have a Horizon VR game in development for it, and I wouldn't be surprised if Asobi are working on another Astrobot for the thing. 3P devs are going to support it, there are rumors of Half-Life: Alyx getting ported to PSVR2 and maybe with extra content and features. Saying PSVR2's going to "bomb" is kind of wild because while Sony are treating it like a console event in terms of scale & optics, we know it's being sold for a profit margin on the hardware alone, game sales will just be extra revenue & profit on top of that.

For Forespoken, actually if you look at it carefully those high sales expectations of SE were always in relation to the Western teams...the groups they just sold off to Embracer. TR 2013, Remember Me, Avengers, GoTG...all from the Western studios. Forespoken probably isn't going to do gangbusters but I can see it doing something like 5 million in the first year. Keep in mind games like RE Village have "only" sold like 8 million copies and have been very financially successful for Capcom, so even if SE have some internally stupid projections, in reality Forespoken should do pretty well for them.

Just give it some decent marketing and a favorable release schedule, and it should be good to go.

There's a lot of stuff coming to Xbox and while the third party games are mostly multi-platform, they're day one on Game Pass. Atomic Heart, possibly Stalker 2, Wo Long, Flintlock, Lies of P and many others will definitely fill out the gaps in between Microsoft's first party releases. And of course, there will be plenty of stuff that we don't yet know about. I disagree with quantity over quality in regards to Starfield because if that was true, it wouldn't have been delayed.

But all the stuff Todd's been talking about since the delay has been about quantity. 1000 planets. 250,000 lines of dialog. "Endless" customization options. Those are features focused on numbers, they say nothing about the quality.

Really things like the 1000 planets turn me off because if there are only four major cities, wouldn't they all be on a single planet? So that's 999 planets simply "there" for gathering resources and little else. Sometimes less is more, Bethesda.

For me personally, it's about what could be after the acquisition. I'm hoping that COD becomes a platform with Infinity Ward, Sledgehammer Games and Raven Software working on it and releasing post launch content while all the other studios can go work on other projects and IP's. Of course, this would take a few years but they need to be taken off COD in order for any of that to happen. Aside from that, it's the hope of getting Diablo IV in Game Pass because why would I buy it if I don't have to? And no, I don't care about ownership which I see as highly overrated in this day and age. In regards to them being ambitious or not, that would remain to be seen but again, before any of that could happen, those studios would have to be taken off COD which is what im hoping for.

What you want for COD would maybe be ideal in one sense, but disastrous in another sense. Right now, both the annual releases AND Warzone bring in huge amounts of cash. Changing the model where the two essentially fold into one may alienate a large portion of those who are only in it for the annual releases, leading to a big dropoff in revenue & profit.

For that reason alone I can't see MS turning COD into a live-service platform. However, I think they'll be able to find a way to keep the current model going, MAYBE make the annual releases a 1-per-2-years thing and alternate on the off-year with a semi-big campaign DLC. I can tell for you, COD and Diablo IV are the big gets out of this acquisition, and that's fine. But personally, I want to see more about the games they can do with viable-but-dormant IP. Like remember those BS Banjo-Kazooie remake rumors back in the summer? Well what if Toys For Bob and the team that did Crash could do a Crash/Spyro/Banjo-Kazooie platformer with some mechanics from the Lego games?

That would be neat. However that's not the kind of discussion I see when people are talking about the acquisition, and I simply don't care how much extra money it means for Microsoft or even if it means I can get the games in GamePass instead of buying them. Those just aren't aspects of the deal that are terribly interesting to me.

And then, there's Blizzard who have been a shell of their former self under Activision and Kotick. Under Microsoft, they can only get better and with everything I have read and seen in regards to Diablo IV, it definitely seems like they're finally heading in the right direction. And personally, im hoping StarCraft Ghost gets resurrected.

There's probably a strong chance they bring back Starcraft in some significant way, that would be one of the safer dormant IPs to do something with.

This I disagree with simply because instead of having a streaming box, they'll just get the Game Pass App onto Smart TV's and who knows, they could always bring back the streaming box down the line plus right now, it would be too many consoles especially when technically, you don't need that streaming box because you could always buy a used Xbox One and stream the games through that console which will give the same results. I also don't think that they're in a rush for streaming. They want to get it right and make sure the tech is fully where they want it to be.

The thing about the streaming box is that it would have provided a consistent means of aiding in offloading the bandwidth requirement for the end user, by having AV1 decoding hardware in the box for example, allowing for smaller data packets through the network connection from the server on MS's end and easing data usage for the gamer.

You can't count on every smart TV having that type of hardware built in, or even decent wifi hardware in them for that matter. What if the bluetooth support sucks? With a dedicated streaming box, you can have complete control and standardization of that in the hardware, as the platform holder. That's why it's important, and would still be a cheaper solution than say a Series S.

Yes, you can use a XBO for streaming, but it's not the most effective means. XBO can't support certain internet network protocols and features five years in the future, not efficiently anyway, because some of those may depend on features in hardware only the new consoles have, or the streaming box would've had. It's like trying to use an Onyx workstation from the mid '90s to stream a 1080p video and then doing the same with some cheap HP laptop releasing this year for like $199. The former could've been the top-end system of its kind for its time, using some uber CPUs and GPU that are theoretically better than whatever's in the cheap HP laptop (especially if it's got a crappy Celeron). But I bet you the HP would run that 1080p video stream rather well while that Onyx system would chug struggling along.

Why? Because the cheap HP laptop would have modern-day hardware-level feature support for things (especially on the CPU side) beneficial for decoding and simplifying that 1080p video stream, that the Onyx system simply can't deal with even with a ton of hardware overhead in raw RAM or something like that. It's the same reason why those XBO systems will be pretty crappy for game streaming five years from now, but a Project Keystone could run circles around them for a decade.

I agree with this but like you said, I don't see it being a 2023 title whatsoever. If I had to predict a year, I would say 2025 at the earliest.

If it's 2025, then MS and Kojima announced it way too early. I mean, it'd be on par with the time between Death Stranding's reveal and release (2016 > 2019), but MS have already done this "reveal super-early" tactic with WAY too many of their 1P games, so it'd suck if they did that again with Kojima & Overdose.

 

[peter42O]

Something between an 82 - 85 for RedFall sounds realistic honestly, which would be good, but regardless of score I just don't think it has a lot going on in order to be "that" kind of huge main draw or really get lots of heads turning. Ghosts of Tsushima was "just" an 84 MC but it really struck a chord with the zeitgeist and drew in lots of people both critically and commercially. So MC score isn't always reflective of a game's quality or what effect it can have in inspiring/influencing other games, gamers & the industry for example.

I can't see Starfield getting anything CLOSE to a 95 unless it is completely bug-free and represents a clear step over Skyrim and the Fallout games in practice. I know Skyrim itself got high MC scores but remember that was by 2011 standards, and game reviewers were generally easier on games, AAA games included, at that time. Skyrim also had a less competitive environment and standards for open-world games weren't as tough as they are today. Personally, I haven't seen anything from Starfield footage so far that shows it'll be a league beyond what Bethesda's done prior with the latter Fallout games or Skyrim.

To me Starfield's looking more like an 85 - 87 MC game if reviews don't give points off the "potential" from PC modders who are technically not Bethesda employees (nor that content being available at the time of review), so that should not weigh into the game's score because by that logic virtually every game should have updated review scores over time as many get mod support on PC. Why make that exception for Bethesda's games?

I doubt we're getting anything for PD this year, but maybe June Showcase? Hellblade 2, tbh we should get some more in-depth gameplay THIS year at the TGAs, but I doubt it. Same for Avowed. At least one of those need to be ready for 2023 release IMO. Everwild was probably internally "cancelled" and rebooted into something we likely could have never guessed going by the 2020 footage. That could be for better or for worst.

If Arkane nails the shooting and loot aspects of Redfall, I think they end up with a quality rated game but more importantly, I think they get far more players into their game and stay with their game as it's supposed to be game as a service. Tsushima got a lot of people into the game and their co-op/multi-player mode Legends got even more players into the game.

I believe that Starfield gets a 95 or so because outside of The Witcher 3, there's no other RPG that gives you the choices and consequences that a BGS game does and because of that along with the game systems gets them that rating. I do believe the game will be very polished, balanced and much more fluid and responsive due to the delay which I do expect to be a full year.

I agree with Starfield looking like a mid to high 80's game based on this past June but I believe it will get higher based on the delay and what I said above. There could be a few points added due to the potential of post launch support which includes mods but even if they do this, they could always go back and re-review the game when there's been a good amount of mods released. Of course, this may only apply to PC so any ratings boost could be few and far between.

I'm going with Perfect Dark because it's been two years since it's official reveal. Hellblade 2 was revealed in 2019 and shown a year ago. I don't see them showing it again this year. I do believe we'll see it in June 2023. Also, with trailers taking 3-6 months to make, giving Ninja Theory 18 months give or take to get a new gameplay trailer ready for June 2023 is the better decision than giving them only 9 months to where they had to work on a trailer these last few months for The Game Awards. My main reason I don't see Hellblade 2 being shown at TGA this year is simply because I don't see them showing it two years in a row.

Luckily for me, I don't care about Rare or Everwild. Hehehe. I'm 50/50 in regards to Avowed and/or Hellblade 2 needing to be released in 2023. I think that depends entirely on where Starfield lands. If Starfield is first half 2022, then I agree with you 100% but if it's November, then honestly, I don't want those other games because first and foremost, I'll possibly be putting hundreds of hours in Starfield so why would I want another big game like Avowed or even a smaller game like Hellblade 2 released at the same time? Also, I would prefer them to get pushed to 2024 so I don't see a first half 2024 drought. I want their games to be spread out. Four AAA titles a year is more than enough for me with a few smaller AA titles and I have a bunch of third party multi-platform games day one on Game Pass, oh man, I will have more than enough games to play.

Also, I think Hellblade 2 is Holiday 2024. It will be a visual showpiece and I can see this being launched with the mid-gen Xbox Series console in November 2024. This is just my own personal hunch though.

The thing with FF XV though is that it was a troubled game that didn't really hit all its design goals/targets and had quite a few development issues. FF XVI is looking like the complete opposite of that: VERY focused, actually ahead of schedule, hitting its targets and everything else. The hype for that game is leagues ahead of what I remember for FF XV.

I really can't understand how you'd be okay with Starfield getting delayed to H2 2023; it's likely going to happen, but once again it'd be a complete failure on MS for misleading/poor communication. They gave H1 2023 back in May this year, but apparently that won't end up being a long enough delay? As for Forza, if it isn't anything more than a prettier Forza Motorsport, or especially if it has a controversial car system like FH5 or greedy MTX practices, I'd expect it to get dinged for that stuff the way GT7 did, otherwise it's going to make the reviews look suspect to me.

For Project Belfrey, I'm guessing it will PLAY something like Dragon's Crown but going by the previous games that dev have made, it visually will not be on Dragon Crown's level. The art style simply isn't there with that dev, nor do I think an aesthetic like Dragon Crown's is their goal, but if just speaking in terms of Western 2D games I don't think it'll have much on say Indivisible or Cuphead, aesthetically. And that kind of thing really helped boost those games in addition to strong gameplay.

But maybe they have different artists or whatnot working on that particular project and it'll look visually cooler, we'll see.

I agree with you in regards to FFXVI. However, let's be honest, if it wasn't a PlayStation 5 one year timed console exclusive, would it really be as hyped as it is? If it was multi-platform, the hyped would be much less. Exclusives get more hype for PlayStation even when they don't deserve it. Not saying FFXVI doesn't deserve that hype but two years ago, PlayStation fans were hyping up Godfall and Bugsnax only because they were exclusive to PlayStation 5 at the time. If they weren't, no one would have cared about either of them.

Regarding Starfield, they said first half of 2023 when it was delayed (same with Redfall) but since the showcase, they have said "coming 2023". I want the game to be fully ready, highly olished and well balanced. If that means giving the game an extra six months, that's fine by me because if it releases say in May 2023 but it's still clunky, has some issues and whatnot, nah, I rather wait. Like I have said before, I want the quality to be there at launch. Getting the game earlier isn't going to mean much if the quality isn't there or you can see that they needed a few more months.

On a related note, if I get Redfall, Diablo IV, Flintlock, Darktide along with Atomic Heart, Wo Long and possibly Lies of P in the first half of 2023, in all honesty, how could I complain? And im not even including Stalker 2 which sadly, who knows if/when that's releasing. And none of this includes unannounced games that we don't know about.

As for Forza Motorsport, im expecting an easy 90+. GT 7 issue was you had to grind to get the cars which was stupid. The micro-transactions weren't in the game when it was being reviewed. It was added at launch. One of the reasons I think FM was delayed to 2023 was because of the car issue in GT 7. I think they perhaps had something similar and they saw that and decided to rework it. I do expect micro-transactions to be in the game but like with GT 7, won't be available for reviewers which and this applies for games in general, doesn't matter much because reviewers always get the deluxe or higher version of the game for review.

If Belfrey plays like Dragon's Crown, I will be very pleased. My only concern is how the game will look. I'm hoping the art style appeals to me and I will be very happy.

They already have a Horizon VR game in development for it, and I wouldn't be surprised if Asobi are working on another Astrobot for the thing. 3P devs are going to support it, there are rumors of Half-Life: Alyx getting ported to PSVR2 and maybe with extra content and features. Saying PSVR2's going to "bomb" is kind of wild because while Sony are treating it like a console event in terms of scale & optics, we know it's being sold for a profit margin on the hardware alone, game sales will just be extra revenue & profit on top of that.

For Forespoken, actually if you look at it carefully those high sales expectations of SE were always in relation to the Western teams...the groups they just sold off to Embracer. TR 2013, Remember Me, Avengers, GoTG...all from the Western studios. Forespoken probably isn't going to do gangbusters but I can see it doing something like 5 million in the first year. Keep in mind games like RE Village have "only" sold like 8 million copies and have been very financially successful for Capcom, so even if SE have some internally stupid projections, in reality Forespoken should do pretty well for them.

Just give it some decent marketing and a favorable release schedule, and it should be good to go.

I don't see PSVR 2 selling more than 8m life time. Mainly due to price especially in certain regions where it's over $800 U.S. and that's before adding the PS5 itself if you don't already own one and before any games and that controller charger. I think it sells out at launch or close to it but if the games and I mean games, NOT experiences aren't there at a steady pace especially from their main studios like Insomniac, Naughty Dog, etc., I just don't see it doing anything. PSVR sold approximately 6m units life time at a cheaper price overall and had a 50m+ user install base. This time around, it's much more expensive and the user install base will probably be around 30m give or take. But we'll see how it does. My expectations for it are very low and personally, I have zero interest when it comes to VR gaming.

Forspoken may do well but it's releasing in late January, three days before Dead Space Remake which I think will do amazing and before the onslaught of February/March commences. Also, there's not a lot of hype around it and most feedback from previews were mixed at best with the combat being good but the writing and annoyance of the Cuff (smh) being the biggest gripes followed by what could be an empty barren open world. I'm interested in it but I will be playing Dead Space Remake first as im way more hyped for it than I am Forspoken. Sales wise, I can see it doing 5m in a year especially if starts out slow and goes on sale for like $40.

But all the stuff Todd's been talking about since the delay has been about quantity. 1000 planets. 250,000 lines of dialog. "Endless" customization options. Those are features focused on numbers, they say nothing about the quality.

Really things like the 1000 planets turn me off because if there are only four major cities, wouldn't they all be on a single planet? So that's 999 planets simply "there" for gathering resources and little else. Sometimes less is more, Bethesda.

They've also talked about the RPG aspects and elements including the dialogue choices, how you'll have to make decisions based on what options you have in those dialogue trees and the consequences of them. I think the four major cities will be within four different hand crafted planets.

Don't forget that just because there's over 1000 planets, that doesn't mean that you're required or have to go to each and every one of them.

What you want for COD would maybe be ideal in one sense, but disastrous in another sense. Right now, both the annual releases AND Warzone bring in huge amounts of cash. Changing the model where the two essentially fold into one may alienate a large portion of those who are only in it for the annual releases, leading to a big dropoff in revenue & profit.

For that reason alone I can't see MS turning COD into a live-service platform. However, I think they'll be able to find a way to keep the current model going, MAYBE make the annual releases a 1-per-2-years thing and alternate on the off-year with a semi-big campaign DLC. I can tell for you, COD and Diablo IV are the big gets out of this acquisition, and that's fine. But personally, I want to see more about the games they can do with viable-but-dormant IP. Like remember those BS Banjo-Kazooie remake rumors back in the summer? Well what if Toys For Bob and the team that did Crash could do a Crash/Spyro/Banjo-Kazooie platformer with some mechanics from the Lego games?

That would be neat. However that's not the kind of discussion I see when people are talking about the acquisition, and I simply don't care how much extra money it means for Microsoft or even if it means I can get the games in GamePass instead of buying them. Those just aren't aspects of the deal that are terribly interesting to me.

Thing is that if COD becomes a platform, I think Warzone would simply be added to the platform so instead of two separate games, it's one game setup like a HUB and you simply select what you want to play. Want to play the Warzone battle royale? Go ahead. Want to play standard MP? Go ahead. Want to play the 5 hour campaign? Go ahead. I think it would be setup similar to what Ubisoft is planning to do with AC Infinity. Bi-annual releases would be better than annual releases but im the same as you - personally, I want to see what the other studios can and would do but that only happens if they get taken off COD.

Money wise, I only care for two reasons - the more money Microsoft makes with all these gaming acquisitions, the more money they'll put back into Xbox/PC/Cloud which means that I will get more out of the Xbox platform and eco-system over the long term. Also, Microsoft making a lot of money off King, Diablo Immortal and the COD mobile game will also lead to them investing more into Xbox/PC/Cloud. Simply, the more money they make, the more money they'll put back into Xbox as a whole which means as an Xbox fan, I'll get more out of it.

Second reason is obviously getting their games day one in Game Pass.

There's probably a strong chance they bring back Starcraft in some significant way, that would be one of the safer dormant IPs to do something with.

I also see them eventually porting World of Warcraft to Xbox. Imagine putting the WOW subscription in Game Pass Ultimate. That would bring in a shit ton of players/subscribers. While im far from being the biggest ABK fan, there's so much potential and so many possibilities.

The thing about the streaming box is that it would have provided a consistent means of aiding in offloading the bandwidth requirement for the end user, by having AV1 decoding hardware in the box for example, allowing for smaller data packets through the network connection from the server on MS's end and easing data usage for the gamer.

You can't count on every smart TV having that type of hardware built in, or even decent wifi hardware in them for that matter. What if the bluetooth support sucks? With a dedicated streaming box, you can have complete control and standardization of that in the hardware, as the platform holder. That's why it's important, and would still be a cheaper solution than say a Series S.

Yes, you can use a XBO for streaming, but it's not the most effective means. XBO can't support certain internet network protocols and features five years in the future, not efficiently anyway, because some of those may depend on features in hardware only the new consoles have, or the streaming box would've had. It's like trying to use an Onyx workstation from the mid '90s to stream a 1080p video and then doing the same with some cheap HP laptop releasing this year for like $199. The former could've been the top-end system of its kind for its time, using some uber CPUs and GPU that are theoretically better than whatever's in the cheap HP laptop (especially if it's got a crappy Celeron). But I bet you the HP would run that 1080p video stream rather well while that Onyx system would chug struggling along.

Why? Because the cheap HP laptop would have modern-day hardware-level feature support for things (especially on the CPU side) beneficial for decoding and simplifying that 1080p video stream, that the Onyx system simply can't deal with even with a ton of hardware overhead in raw RAM or something like that. It's the same reason why those XBO systems will be pretty crappy for game streaming five years from now, but a Project Keystone could run circles around them for a decade.

I agree with you completely. I just think that they want to fine tune Azure and get X-Cloud out of Beta before they do any streaming console. I don't really believe that it's been cancelled. I think it's more of being put on hold than anything else.

If it's 2025, then MS and Kojima announced it way too early. I mean, it'd be on par with the time between Death Stranding's reveal and release (2016 > 2019), but MS have already done this "reveal super-early" tactic with WAY too many of their 1P games, so it'd suck if they did that again with Kojima & Overdose.

I agree with Microsoft revealing a lot of their first party games early but at the same time, they kinda had to show that yes, the games are years away but we are working on them and we're heavily investing into studios, teams and games. They needed to get that message out before this generation started and they did. Granted, it hasn't gone exactly the way they planned it but as an Xbox fan, if they didn't announce what they did in 2020 and 2021, I wouldn't be as hyped or excited for Xbox like I am now. I know the games are years away but I know they have games coming including 10+ that I want to play where as with last generation, I never felt that way.

As for Kojima's game, I think it was the right decision to announce his game. First, the rumor was out there for over a year so may as well finally confirm it and make it official. Second, it gave the showcase "star power" because while I always believed the Kojima rumor since day one, the vast majority of people didn't so why not announce it? Third, this shows that Microsoft really is trying to get Japanese developer support and games on their Xbox platform. This in of itself is huge because it's always been an uphill battle for Microsoft but by getting Kojima, it will definitely make other development studios and publishers in Japan more open to working with Microsoft in some form.