Former Rare Dev Say There's Not An Audience For A New Banjo-Kazooie

[John Elden Ring]

While discussing Banjo-Kazooie's 25th anniversary, Grant Kirkhope, a composer who worked on a ton of Rare games in the past, said that he doesn't think there's an audience for Banjo-Threeie.

Mayles said:

"I can’t really speak for Gregg (Mayles, Rare's creative director) but he’s really the custodian of the franchise. He doesn’t really like to look back and tread over old ground, so I don’t think he’s ever been bothered about doing anything else with the franchise. He’d rather move on to new experiences – as far as he’s concerned, he’s been there, done that”.

Kirkhope was similarly sceptical about a third entry, noting that the team working on it would have to get the humour right, something that he says is hard to replicate. Kirkhope said, "I think Rare would be open to somebody if they found the right team, but I don’t feel like that team exists. Also, I’m not convinced the audience is there either.”

Although Kirkhope and Mayles both seem to think that it's unlikely to happen in the near future, if at all, they still seem to want a new game in the series. Sutherland was the most positive out of the three, noting that he hopes "somebody is going to bring out something… some kind of sequel or ‘next in line’ game. At least before a point where I can still remember that the first one existed! But hopefully sooner.”

 

[Zzero]

He's right, you know.

 

[KnittedKnight]

The audience is on Switch and PS5, not Xbox/PC.

A marketing partnership with Nintendo would go a long way.... but that's not happening thus "no audience"

 

[Bryank75]

 

[Dr Bass]

Makes sense.

Also the quote is (once again) why buying companies for old franchises just doesn't work. For example, plenty of people want Sony to buy Konami for Metal Gear, Castlevania, Silent Hill etc ....

Those games are yesterday's news. Yeah they are some of my favorites too, but they are never going to mean to the gaming industry what they did in their heyday. That's why MS going on this buying spree is ridiculous. No creative person is going to want to make someone else's tired garbage.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

He's right, you know.

He's dead wrong. Crowd reaction to Banjo-Kazooie coming to Smash Bros. should be enough to prove they're wrong. If there's no market for a new Banjo, how is there a market for a sequel to Psychonauts? For all these other indie 3D platformers we're seeing?

It's a cop-out excuse. There's a market for 3D platforms outside of Mario and Sonic but when you have a defeatist attitude like this ex-Rare dev, of course you're going to think that isn't the case. A new Banjo doesn't need to sell 10 million copies, or even 5 million copies. It doesn't need a AAA-level production budget FFS.

Mentalities like this are what's partly wrong with the industry today. If a company like Microsoft can fund Psychonauts 2, HiFi Rush and friggin' Pentiment, then they can fund a AA Banjo-Kazooie game, even a remake of the first one. It would have a bigger audience than those games and be a nice add to their catalogue.

Makes sense.

Also the quote is (once again) why buying companies for old franchises just doesn't work. For example, plenty of people want Sony to buy Konami for Metal Gear, Castlevania, Silent Hill etc ....

Those games are yesterday's news. Yeah they are some of my favorites too, but they are never going to mean to the gaming industry what they did in their heyday. That's why MS going on this buying spree is ridiculous. No creative person is going to want to make someone else's tired garbage.

No it doesn't make sense, because that dev seems to think if a new entry doesn't move GOWR or Elden Ring or TOTK numbers, it's not worth doing. New entries in IP like Banjo, or the ones you mentioned, don't need $100 million budgets. They don't even need $50 million budgets. Publishers need to be smarter about their use of funds and devs can be more creative with how they work with what they've got.

Literal no-name games that no one could have predicted having much of a market, like Only Up, Among Us, PUBG, Lawn Mower Simulator, Football Manager etc. have gone on to become big hits and time-tested franchises. If they have an audience, I think a new entry in a beloved 3D platformer IP from Rare's heyday would have a pretty decent audience of its own.

 

[Zzero]

He's dead wrong. Crowd reaction to Banjo-Kazooie coming to Smash Bros. should be enough to prove they're wrong.

There is a market for Banjo on a Nintendo platform, and thats it. Those are the people who played his old games, few of them followed Rare to Xbox and even fewer are willing to pay 500 dollars to do so now for just a single Banjo title and Perfect Dark In Name Only.

 

[Darth Vader]

He's dead wrong. Crowd reaction to Banjo-Kazooie coming to Smash Bros. should be enough to prove they're wrong. If there's no market for a new Banjo, how is there a market for a sequel to Psychonauts? For all these other indie 3D platformers we're seeing?

It's a cop-out excuse. There's a market for 3D platforms outside of Mario and Sonic but when you have a defeatist attitude like this ex-Rare dev, of course you're going to think that isn't the case. A new Banjo doesn't need to sell 10 million copies, or even 5 million copies. It doesn't need a AAA-level production budget FFS.

Mentalities like this are what's partly wrong with the industry today. If a company like Microsoft can fund Psychonauts 2, HiFi Rush and friggin' Pentiment, then they can fund a AA Banjo-Kazooie game, even a remake of the first one. It would have a bigger audience than those games and be a nice add to their catalogue.



No it doesn't make sense, because that dev seems to think if a new entry doesn't move GOWR or Elden Ring or TOTK numbers, it's not worth doing. New entries in IP like Banjo, or the ones you mentioned, don't need $100 million budgets. They don't even need $50 million budgets. Publishers need to be smarter about their use of funds and devs can be more creative with how they work with what they've got.

Literal no-name games that no one could have predicted having much of a market, like Only Up, Among Us, PUBG, Lawn Mower Simulator, Football Manager etc. have gone on to become big hits and time-tested franchises. If they have an audience, I think a new entry in a beloved 3D platformer IP from Rare's heyday would have a pretty decent audience of its own.

Agree with all of the above. Companies need to stop thinking that success means millions of sales. A 30M budget game is already AA territory and if it sells even 1M copies it made its money back. And you can make a Banjo game with less than that.

 

[Dr Bass]

He's dead wrong. Crowd reaction to Banjo-Kazooie coming to Smash Bros. should be enough to prove they're wrong. If there's no market for a new Banjo, how is there a market for a sequel to Psychonauts? For all these other indie 3D platformers we're seeing?

It's a cop-out excuse. There's a market for 3D platforms outside of Mario and Sonic but when you have a defeatist attitude like this ex-Rare dev, of course you're going to think that isn't the case. A new Banjo doesn't need to sell 10 million copies, or even 5 million copies. It doesn't need a AAA-level production budget FFS.

Mentalities like this are what's partly wrong with the industry today. If a company like Microsoft can fund Psychonauts 2, HiFi Rush and friggin' Pentiment, then they can fund a AA Banjo-Kazooie game, even a remake of the first one. It would have a bigger audience than those games and be a nice add to their catalogue.



No it doesn't make sense, because that dev seems to think if a new entry doesn't move GOWR or Elden Ring or TOTK numbers, it's not worth doing. New entries in IP like Banjo, or the ones you mentioned, don't need $100 million budgets. They don't even need $50 million budgets. Publishers need to be smarter about their use of funds and devs can be more creative with how they work with what they've got.

Literal no-name games that no one could have predicted having much of a market, like Only Up, Among Us, PUBG, Lawn Mower Simulator, Football Manager etc. have gone on to become big hits and time-tested franchises. If they have an audience, I think a new entry in a beloved 3D platformer IP from Rare's heyday would have a pretty decent audience of its own.

It makes complete sense IMO. There is no one around dying to make a BK3, and the last n64 game was in .. 2000? Look at what BK nuts and bolts did. Look at what Yookla Laylee did. Nothing.

Yes the series could be revived with an incredible entry that was inventive and defied exceptions. The point is that the kind of team/lead person that could deliver that kind of an experience has their own ideas, and does not want to work on someone else's creation.

We've seen this over and over again across many mediums. Just look at recent movies. The non-Spielberg Indiana Jones, which is a flop. The Disney Star Wars movies. The non-Phillip K. Dick Blade Runner movie, which I know some people liked, but was so freaking stupid in relation to the original that it's embarrassing to watch. Visually great, but material so banal it shouldn't have been made.

Let's go to games. How about the Bloober Silent Hill 2 remake that looks like a giant turd. The Crash games no one cares about. Those Castlevania sequels that did not perform well. Killer Instinct on Xbox was a dud. The disastrous Battletoads game. I'm sure I could think of quite a few more if I cared. I think Kirkhope is right, and looking forward is the only way to go.

 

[Dr Bass]

Agree with all of the above. Companies need to stop thinking that success means millions of sales. A 30M budget game is already AA territory and if it sells even 1M copies it made its money back. And you can make a Banjo game with less than that.

I do agree game budgets are way too big in relation to what the platform holders are going for and I would LOVE smaller budget releases that were creative but ... again ...

How popular was Yooka Laylee?

 

[Darth Vader]

The Disney Star Wars movies.

Don't you dare shitting on Rogue One!!!

How popular was Yooka Laylee?

No idea.

 

[BlueLyria]

I dislike Banjo but I believe he's wrong, there's a reason why Mario Odyssey was so popular, there is indeed a market for it.

 

[Systemshock2023]

He is not wrong. Yooka Kaylee was a massively anticipated game but didn't exactly set the world on fire. And it released on every platform under the sun.

They even went back to 2D on the second release which was better received by the audience and games media.

There's a reason why the most popular platformer outside of Mario 64 on the 5th gen, the one that had the biggest hard on on 3D was crash bandicoot. a 2.5D game.

 

[Box]

Banjo was incredibly mid especially compared to SM64

Banjo was never popular, it just has a very small but very vocal minority on the internet

 

[Danja1187]

There is no audience for it on Xbox or Playstation.

Nintendo would do wonders for Banjo however.

 

[Vertigo]

The era of animal mascots is long gone. There’s no money in Banjo. He’s right.

 

[Petekilla]

I dislike Banjo but I believe he's wrong, there's a reason why Mario Odyssey was so popular, there is indeed a market for it.Your

I dislike Banjo but I believe he's wrong, there's a reason why Mario Odyssey was so popular, there is indeed a market for it.

You’re comparing Banjo to Mario? LMAO

 

[Petekilla]

On Xbox, certainly not. The Xbox fanbase does not give two about cartoon games. Hi-Fi Rush was a good game, but it flopped on Xbox. Banjo would sell on Switch though.

 

[Petekilla]

It makes complete sense IMO. There is no one around dying to make a BK3, and the last n64 game was in .. 2000? Look at what BK nuts and bolts did. Look at what Yookla Laylee did. Nothing.

Yes the series could be revived with an incredible entry that was inventive and defied exceptions. The point is that the kind of team/lead person that could deliver that kind of an experience has their own ideas, and does not want to work on someone else's creation.

We've seen this over and over again across many mediums. Just look at recent movies. The non-Spielberg Indiana Jones, which is a flop. The Disney Star Wars movies. The non-Phillip K. Dick Blade Runner movie, which I know some people liked, but was so freaking stupid in relation to the original that it's embarrassing to watch. Visually great, but material so banal it shouldn't have been made.

Let's go to games. How about the Bloober Silent Hill 2 remake that looks like a giant turd. The Crash games no one cares about. Those Castlevania sequels that did not perform well. Killer Instinct on Xbox was a dud. The disastrous Battletoads game. I'm sure I could think of quite a few more if I cared. I think Kirkhope is right, and looking forward is the only way to go.

You’re right. People need to let things die. In life everything has a peak. Just look at Sonic. Every now and then you get a decent Sonic game. But Sonic will never be at it’s peak, like it was in the 90’s ever again.

 

[Loy310]

Bullshit, its just a safe way of saying we killed it and the audience.
Look at Ratchet and Clank and Mario, if BK was properly taken care of it would be just as big. Selling Rare to MS was stupid, the xb brand does not attract platform gamers. The wrong company bought Rare.
Also proves that MS buying devs and pubs dont mean the audience for that pub will follow.