It's Time To Look At SIE As a Publisher First, Platform Holder Second. What Does That Really Mean?

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I wonder how @thicc_girls_are_teh_best is going to fare against our resident AIs in this bout.

Dude the amount of people I've seen argue LEGO Horizon is a live-service GAAS because of (optional) online co-op, or that it isn't even a Horizon game, or that LEGO had SIE by the balls to put this on PC & Switch Day 1, is absolutely insane.

Lots of people at the 'denial' stage RN.

Agree Sony are all over the place.

They could have kept it simple with GaaS and Mobile too.

Mobile is a better platform to support than PC and other consoles.

It’s a bigger market plus it does not compete directly with PlayStation. The fact that Sony don’t have a handheld and are currently non-existent in Japan makes it even more appealing to release Mobile games.

Irony with mobile being, Sony Aniplex are all over that segment with the Demon Slayer game and other stuff, but none of that is under SIE. Could it be that SIE are avoiding mobile because of the Aniplex unit? That would be absolutely dumb IMO; you can have more than one segment involved in the same market.

Or do higher-ups at Sony Corp think having SIE focus on mobile for a platform expansion would be stressing the subsidiary thin? Because if that's the case....what exactly do they think is happening right now with the focus on PC?

 

[JAHGamer]

It's all harvesting and they are not even trying to attract new users to the hardware they make.

Sony keeps lying, saying the console is important to them but then constantly undermines it and it's obvious they don't value it at all. They take existing PS users for granted and it won't end well for them.

 

[mibu no ookami]

I'd bet regulators would say that Sony is already too dominant in console and game subs markets, and that making a huge acquisition like Take 2 -which include huge top sellers like GTA, NBA2K or RDR- would make more difficult to compete against them.

So would force them to do something that Sony anyways pretty likely will do: to keep Take 2 full multiplatform, as happened with Mojang, Bungie or ABK.

If Sony ever aquires -I think they won't- a top publisher will be to secure them as partners and block any deal with the competition, but mostly to get the revenue and profit they generate everywhere, specially outside PS, to get money from other platforms without using the PlayStation / PS Studios brand.

That's because you have no idea what regulators are looking for.

All the 2K sports games would remain multiplatform and GTA and Red Dead don't come out enough to warrant scrutiny nor are they the biggest GaaS titles.

GTA and Red Dead would certainly not show up on Xbox and eventually would probably be exclusive to a Sony PC storefront.

Foreclosing on Xbox is too easy because there isn't much money there to begin with. The real value in T2 is ensuring that no one else buys them and the cross advertising with sports. PlayStation would become synonymous with Baseball, Basketball, Wrestling, Tennis, and Golf. In time there's also the FIFA license.

 

[Johnic]

Interesting thread.

I can't see it as anything but negative both for PlayStation customers and the industry as a whole.

Moves like this show a lack of competition is setting in. It's all harvesting and they are not even trying to attract new users to the hardware they make.

They are trying. It just won't work.

They're trying to throw bait around on different platforms, hoping some of those people will come to PS.

For PC, they're hoping people will come over for a sequel.

For Nintendo, they're hoping kids will go out and buy a $450 console to play a AAA game.

It's so incredibly disconnected from reality.

 

[mibu no ookami]

Irony with mobile being, Sony Aniplex are all over that segment with the Demon Slayer game and other stuff, but none of that is under SIE. Could it be that SIE are avoiding mobile because of the Aniplex unit? That would be absolutely dumb IMO; you can have more than one segment involved in the same market.

Or do higher-ups at Sony Corp think having SIE focus on mobile for a platform expansion would be stressing the subsidiary thin? Because if that's the case....what exactly do they think is happening right now with the focus on PC?

Whenever I think you know what you're talking about you remind me that you only do surface level stuff.

Sony has significant plans around mobile. It's literally why they bought Savage games now Neon Koi. What you see as them avoiding mobile, is because it takes a lot to create mobile games. It's not as simple as porting existing games in most cases.

Sony had ForwardWorks which now falls under Sony Music Entertainment Japan. It's because SMEJ is closer to the anime scene than SIEJ.

All of this stuff takes time and resources, it's not like flipping a switch. You can see that they're hiring for mobile as well.

 

[JAHGamer]

They're trying to throw bait around on different platforms, hoping some of those people will come to PS.

For PC, they're hoping people will come over for a sequel.

For Nintendo, they're hoping kids will go out and buy a $450 console to play a AAA game.

No, they don't actually hope for any of this at all. They don't care if PC/Switch owners buy a PlayStation. They want to have their cake and eat it too, they think they can be a platform owner and a 3rd party publisher at the same time. Their entire "strategy" (if you can even call it that) banks on PS console owners being idiots that will put up with their lies. Exactly how Xbox has operated the last few years. Except they don't have a trillion dollar parent company backing them. That's why they'll fail and will be in Xbox's position next gen

 

[Johnic]

No, they don't actually hope for any of this at all. They don't care if PC/Switch owners buy a PlayStation. They want to have their cake and eat it too, they think they can be a platform owner and a 3rd party publisher at the same time. Their entire "strategy" (if you can even call it that) banks on PS console owners being idiots that will put up with their lies. Exactly how Xbox has operated the last few years. Except they don't have a trillion dollar parent company backing them. That's why they'll fail and will be in Xbox's position next gen

That ain't happening, so good luck to them. I'd understand if they were MS with failed hardware. They literally have 2 business models competing with each other. You want to sell hardware because that ecosystem is where you earn most of your money. But then open it up and release games hither and yon with seemingly no structure, for what exactly? Can't have both.

 

[mibu no ookami]

They are trying. It just won't work.

They're trying to throw bait around on different platforms, hoping some of those people will come to PS.

For PC, they're hoping people will come over for a sequel.

For Nintendo, they're hoping kids will go out and buy a $450 console to play a AAA game.

It's so incredibly disconnected from reality.

Poor analysis.

For PC, they're looking at a small number of people being enticed to buy console to play sequels. What they're really doing on PC is looking for increased margins. That operating income they'll put towards creating their own PC Storefront. They're making people sign up for PSN because they want to be able to have data and metrics to support their PC business. Their ultimate goal is going to be that PC launcher, but also PS+ on PC.

Where people misunderstand is their goal isn't to get 40 million PS+ subscribers on PC, even if they can increase their number by 5 million, that's tremendous in terms of revenue. That would be an increase in revenue of 1.08 billion dollars per year and at that point it's mostly pure profit.

If you look at numbers of PS+ premium on PS5, you see that many people aren't getting PS+ just for online play. The other benefits are what attract people. Cloud gaming, free games, e.t.c. probably expanded to things like free warbonds on helldivers and the such.

As for Nintendo, yeah they want kids to play their games, as that is again better margins and more operating income, but they also know that kids grow up and in many cases they continue to play the same games that they were fond of as kids. This is how you grow TAM on consoles.

Sony might eventually release their own handheld, but likely the price is going to be higher than most kids are going to get their parents to drop for a handheld video game system. So it makes sense to release their games on Nintendo systems.

 

[mibu no ookami]

That ain't happening, so good luck to them. I'd understand if they were MS with failed hardware. They literally have 2 business models competing with each other. You want to sell hardware because that ecosystem is where you earn most of your money. But then open it up and release games hither and yon with seemingly no structure, for what exactly? Can't have both.

Can't have both? Isn't that EXACTLY how Apple has made serious ground with Apple TV? Apple TV was initially exclusive to Apple TV hardware and then they opened it up to other devices. The Apple TV is still one of the best streaming devices on the market, but Apple was aware that there was largely a ceiling on TAM for the device. They also understood that people who bought Apple TVs like the hardware and they weren't necessarily buying it for Apple TV, something that became a selling point afterwards.

There was no Uncharted, Last of Us, Ghost of Tsushima, Insomniac Spider-Man on PS2... PS2 is still the best selling sony console by far.

People are so stuck in this fanboy ideology, that they think that is how the market actually works today. It just doesn't.

 

[SLB1904]

Means no more exclusives cause you have to maximise sales by putting every game in as many platforms as possible

 

[mibu no ookami]

The opposite.

FromSoft did hit the jackpot only once with Elden Ring. They have been making games since the PS1, all of them had mediocre/ok/low sales until Bloodborne (7M+ as of 2022), Dark Souls 3 (10M as of 2020), Sekiro (10M as of late 2023) and Elden Ring (not Armored Core 6).

Bungie instead did hit the jackpot with every single game they made on console and even broke the record of the fastest selling new IP -Destiny 1- and have one of the most successful GaaS -Destiny 2-, which despite being around 7 years old generates around $100-200M/year.

Both would be good and safe acquisitions, but if it's a safe bet here it's Bungie because all their console games were huge hits and way more successful ones (comparatively to the context of each generation) that the FromSoft games.

Marathon's teaser broke the youtuve record for a Sony game announcement, but isn't the only Bungie asset: Destiny 2 continues making money, as will Destiny 3 and the movie/tv adaptations of Bungie IPs that are in the works. Plus they also help the other Sony GaaS, so indirectly are generating even more money.

Plus regarding the creation of new IPs, they created Halo and Destiny, so very likely will also create other very successful IPs.

Going to respond to your edit. You're abusing the edit function btw.

The Dark Souls trilogy has sold over 33 million units. So no, they didn't just hit the jackpot with Elden Ring.

Since 2009's Demon's Souls, From's SoulsBorne games have sold over 75 million units... They own an entire genre of games...

Marathon's teaser was algorithmic hacking, it certainly didn't have that many real views, which you could tell by the interaction.

 

[Yurinka]

That's because you have no idea what regulators are looking for.

I know perfectly what market regulators are looking for, I know the Sony and Take 2 market positions (plus direct competitors) and I did read the public reports of the MS/ABK case. And also know what Sony and MS said and did when acquiring Mojang, Zenimax, Bungie and ABK.

This is why I said that and this is why I was right when I was saying that regulators were going to approve the MS/ABK deal, or when I said Starfield very likely was going to be a timed exclusive and that Bethesda was going to continue focusing on multiplatform, and that ABK will continue being multiplatform, that MS weren't going to make CoD console exclusive.

Same goes with Take 2, if Sony or MS acquire them they'll continue full multiplatform. To make games like GTA6 is so fucking expansive and they want to make all the money they can everywhere, they won't leave money on the table. They don't care about childish fanboys crying because some other players also can play the games of certain company. They care about getting the biggest revenue, profit and userbase possible.

The Dark Souls trilogy has sold over 33 million units. So no, they didn't just hit the jackpot with Elden Ring.

Yes, we know the trilogy sold that, which combined with that I said we see that since Elden Ring sold 23M, Elden Rign will sell like twice or more the units of any other souls game.

Going to respond to your edit. You're abusing the edit function btw.

After I write a post I often review it and fix typos or add some stuff, as could be something I forgot or additional quotes or replies to other posts. It isn't to "abuse" the edit function. Just wait a few seconds or a couple minutes after I post something to see the final version of that post.

Since 2009's Demon's Souls, From's SoulsBorne games have sold over 75 million units...

Yes, and that's good.

Marathon's teaser was algorithmic hacking, it certainly didn't have that many real views, which you could tell by the interaction.

That's a creative excuse xDD

 

[Nhomnhom]

The problem is they are pretty weak as publisher now, they release very few games outside of PC ports.

Being able to develop a game to single platform was a huge advantage and the reason why they used to stand out. Only Nintendo seems able to recognize that and that is why they are likely to dominate the market.

 

[JAHGamer]

The problem is they are pretty weak as publisher now, they release very few games outside of PC ports.

Just like with PC, there's a huge backlog for them to port for Switch 2. They'll probably acquire a studio specifically for Switch ports

 

[mibu no ookami]

I know perfectly what market regulators are looking for, I know the Sony and Take 2 market positions (plus direct competitors) and I did read the public reports of the MS/ABK case. And also know what Sony and MS said and did when acquiring Mojang, Zenimax, Bungie and ABK.

This is why I said that and this is why I was right when I was saying that regulators were going to approve the MS/ABK deal, or when I said Starfield very likely was going to be a timed exclusive and that Bethesda was going to continue focusing on multiplatform, and that ABK will continue being multiplatform, that MS weren't going to make CoD console exclusive.

Don't start acting like thicc.

Disney bought Fox and T-Mobile bought Sprint. If you think regulators care about a much smaller deal like this, you're deluding yourself.

Same goes with Take 2, if Sony or MS acquire them they'll continue full multiplatform. To make games like GTA6 is so fucking expansive and they want to make all the money they can everywhere, they won't leave money on the table. They don't care about childish fanboys crying because some other players also can play the games of certain company. They care about getting the biggest revenue, profit and userbase possible.

Sony has no problem foreclosing on Xbox. What they lose in unit sales is worth it to dry up Xbox sales. The reverse is usually not true.

Yes, we know the trilogy sold that, which combined with that I said we see that since Elden Ring sold 23M, Elden Rign will sell like twice or more the units of any other souls game.

A Dark Souls 4 would sell even better than Dark Souls 3. This genre has gotten even more popular. It's a guaranteed sale.

After I write a post I often review it and fix typos or add some stuff, as could be something I forgot or additional quotes or replies to other posts. It isn't to "abuse" the edit function. Just wait a few seconds or a couple minutes after I post something to see the final version of that post.

If you're going to add substantially to a post, just write a new post, don't edit the old post.

Yes, and that's good.

It's more than good. They're averaging over 5 million units per year, with the more recent games selling far better than the original games.

To put it into context. The Last of Us 2 sold around 10 million copies and took more than 5 years to develop.

Since 2009, From has made Demon's Souls, Dark Souls x3, Dark Souls Remastered, Sekiro, Bloodborne, Elden Ring and are already coming out with Elden Ring DLC. That's 8 games in 15 years on top of the rest of the games they make.

If Sony bought From, they'd immediately be their most productive studio.

That's a creative excuse xDD

It's not an excuse. You can tell that's there a massive difference between the views and the likes/dislkes. Even to this day, it's terribly unbalanced.

 

[Nhomnhom]

Just like with PC, there's a huge backlog for them to port for Switch 2. They'll probably acquire a studio specifically for Switch ports

Or just slow down their output even more by having their studios work on these ports.

 

[Jim Ryan]

They are trying. It just won't work.

They're trying to throw bait around on different platforms, hoping some of those people will come to PS.

For PC, they're hoping people will come over for a sequel.

For Nintendo, they're hoping kids will go out and buy a $450 console to play a AAA game.

It's so incredibly disconnected from reality.

Then they port the sequel... Doesn't really follow what they say.