Making a game and wanted to ask people here a question...

[Dr. E99]

I think it can sometimes be a detriment if labels are used carelessly. I remember one preview article I read on Callisto Protocol that described the combat as “soulslike” and that really kind of killed my enthusiasm for the game because I don’t really like Souls games. Turns out the combat is nothing like a soulslike and Callisto Protocol turned out to be one of my favorite games of all time.

 

[DarkLordOtaku]

Hmm... I'd say it's basically a 3d beat em up, but if I were to give it a label, would definitely label it as "character action" because you usually play one preset, predefined character with an extended move set. Like No More Heroes or Mad World.

Oh, that sounds interesting. It's a bit outside the genre pool I would typically play, but I hope development and release go extremely well for you!

 

[Bryank75]

These are all valid statements and logical deductions of the optics surrounding an up and coming game that has yet to be released. You can't really avoid the assumptions that, even if you show off a trailer, people will still label it as a "soulslike," even though it could be wrong.

I also heard it's better for a game to lean on its visual/unique flare.

For example Ultrakill. The game, literally for about a year, had the project name of "Devil May Quake." And it's basically Quake on Crack. Ultrakill is super influenced by its older, fast-paced boomer shooter peers, but still has its own unique flare.

Definitely... You can see how gamers react to stale art styles like those seen in Fortnite etc.

But then the more retro styled art in games is embraced and loved.

It sounds like common sense but many would rather be safe.

 

[ExtraWildGames]

Definitely... You can see how gamers react to stale art styles like those seen in Fortnite etc.

But then the more retro styled art in games is embraced and loved.

It sounds like common sense but many would rather be safe.

There is this middle ground I see with Valve's games a lot in that regard actually. Their games have this somewhat simplistic, but also very memorable character design that gives the games their own flare and personality. Top it off with some pretty simple shading and costumes/outfits, they stand out from the rest of their peers with how simple their stuff can be sometimes.

 

[ExtraWildGames]

I think it can sometimes be a detriment if labels are used carelessly. I remember one preview article I read on Callisto Protocol that described the combat as “soulslike” and that really kind of killed my enthusiasm for the game because I don’t really like Souls games. Turns out the combat is nothing like a soulslike and Callisto Protocol turned out to be one of my favorite games of all time.

Yeah I think people actually reviewed that game bad because of poor technical difficulties? I heard the game itself is actually kinda decent.

Also wtf? Soulslike? That game plays more like Dead Space.

 

[arvfab]

Only "buzzwords" I care about are

Single-player
Offline

 

[Yurinka]

These are all valid statements and logical deductions of the optics surrounding an up and coming game that has yet to be released. You can't really avoid the assumptions that, even if you show off a trailer, people will still label it as a "soulslike," even though it could be wrong.

I also heard it's better for a game to lean on its visual/unique flare.

For example Ultrakill. The game, literally for about a year, had the project name of "Devil May Quake." And it's basically Quake on Crack. Ultrakill is super influenced by its older, fast-paced boomer shooter peers, but still has its own unique flare.

Yes, the visual and unique flare are key.

Unless people receive great impressions from someone they trust, when they see screenshots or a trailer with bad visuals of a game they just found and is from an unknown developer, they quickly avoid it.

Regarding uniqueness, I (dev with almost 20 years of experience working in over 40 published games, some of them award winning or top in their market/niche) think that the most important thing is to have let's say 80%-90% of the game based on proven and solid grounds, based of several different games that worked really well in this genre/target user.

And then the rest being something different or not common that helps it to standout from the rest. Doesn't need to be new or unique, maybe a mixture of popular things others didn't do before, or going an extra mile on certain area, or doing an interesting twist to a known concept.

The most important thing, more than being unique, is to stand out from the similar ones, to provide something that makes it more appealing. As could be an aesthetic or character design that players prefer, to have better visuals or performance, or something else that makes it feel fun or different. Which could be to add a new concept, mechanic, theme, etc.

But the most important thing is to make sure that when your target user sees the game thinks it looks and feels great. Regarding hack & slash / 3D beat 'em up, in many cases I see new ones in Steam and quickly skip them because they look ugly to me, or I see that the animation or speed feels really bad and I know the game will be boring. Often also because the visual and audio feedback of the hits sucks, when it's something key for action games.

 

[anonpuffs]

Do you, as people of the general public, and as a gamer, really care about "buzzword" design tropes for games? My point being when someone says "this game is a soulslike." I don't really like this one-note sorta offhand denotion of a game. Do you care if an up and coming game is a "Soulslike" or "DMC style" action game? Do those keywords in articles, and sometimes even steam pages themselves, entice you to play the game more?

They are helpful to let me know if I even want to click the trailer or read more about it. The most enticing thing is a sizzle reel of 100% gameplay (no bullshit voiceovers), followed by a short blurb describing the game. If it's a game I like the buzzwords can help sell the game to friends.

 

[ExtraWildGames]

Yes, the visual and unique flare are key.

Unless people receive great impressions from someone they trust, when they see screenshots or a trailer with bad visuals of a game they just found and is from an unknown developer, they quickly avoid it.

Regarding uniqueness, I (dev with almost 20 years of experience working in over 40 published games, some of them award winning or top in their market/niche) think that the most important thing is to have let's say 80%-90% of the game based on proven and solid grounds, based of several different games that worked really well in this genre/target user.

And then the rest being something different or not common that helps it to standout from the rest. Doesn't need to be new or unique, maybe a mixture of popular things others didn't do before, or going an extra mile on certain area, or doing an interesting twist to a known concept.

The most important thing, more than being unique, is to stand out from the similar ones, to provide something that makes it more appealing. As could be an aesthetic or character design that players prefer, to have better visuals or performance, or something else that makes it feel fun or different. Which could be to add a new concept, mechanic, theme, etc.

But the most important thing is to make sure that when your target user sees the game thinks it looks and feels great. Regarding hack & slash / 3D beat 'em up, in many cases I see new ones in Steam and quickly skip them because they look ugly to me, or I see that the animation or speed feels really bad and I know the game will be boring. Often also because the visual and audio feedback of the hits sucks, when it's something key for action games.

Yeah I'm not really a big fan of recent 3d action games besides the Yakuza series, which I feel is pretty solid compared to is contemporaries. I also really just don't like how most modern action games feel. Nothing really has much impact, moves feel stiff and it feels like they kinda take concepts from other games that people like, throw them into a blender and present themselves as "new." When in reality, it's just another generic game with uncreative visuals, overused and tired mechanics that homogenize the gameplay like parrying, and uninteresting enemy/combat design with effects and sound that makes it feel like you're hitting people with noodle arms.


Now don't get me wrong. Parrying/counter mechanics are fine. It's how the developer uses that parry mechanic to elevate the gameplay to feel good. Which is why whenever you pull off something like a Tiger Drop in Yakuza, you get amazing rewards for pulling it off because it's a difficult move to pull off. But here's the thing; the reward and execution for it make Tiger Drop WORTH using and mastering. You can seriously turn the tide of some boss fights with this technique if you get good at it, leads to full combos if you wall splat them and does a LOT of damage in general.

And that's what I'm thinking about when approaching my game. Sure, I have stuff I wanna put in there from other games I played, but will it be good? Will people like it? Is this even fun?

 

[ExtraWildGames]

They are helpful to let me know if I even want to click the trailer or read more about it. The most enticing thing is a sizzle reel of 100% gameplay (no bullshit voiceovers), followed by a short blurb describing the game. If it's a game I like the buzzwords can help sell the game to friends.

do you prefer the sorta cinematic start of a gameplay trailer, where they show what the game actually looks like, but with no HUD or do you just want "raw, no bullshit editing, this is the game in its raw format" type of gameplay trailer?

 

[ExtraWildGames]

Regarding uniqueness, I (dev with almost 20 years of experience working in over 40 published games, some of them award winning or top in their market/niche) think that the most important thing is to have let's say 80%-90% of the game based on proven and solid grounds, based off several different games that worked really well in this genre/target user.

Wow, that's cool. I bet you definitely have your stories.
I should be able to get a demo hopefully before the end of year and post it here. I definitely wanna show you guys what I've been cooking. And also I'm definitely keeping it somewhat short-mid range in terms of length with a few game modes I can easily reuse object pools and AI navmeshes to make things modular.

 

[ethomaz]

It is fair to call games “Soulslike” if it have similar gameplay structure to From Software games.
It helps to build and sell the game.

For example Nioh without being labeled Soulslike should not even sell what it sold.

Mortal Sell only sold over a million due being Soulslike.

 

[Yurinka]

Wow, that's cool. I bet you definitely have your stories.

Yes, many of them.

I should be able to get a demo hopefully before the end of year and post it here. I definitely wanna show you guys what I've been cooking. And also I'm definitely keeping it somewhat short-mid range in terms of length with a few game modes I can easily reuse object pools and AI navmeshes to make things modular.

Cool. Pro-tip: keep the scope as small as possible because often keeps getting bigger and bigger during development.

Instead of adding many stages to provide extra content (that requires a lot of time and money), add stuff like leaderboards, small unlockables or rewards for stuff like clearing each stage under certain amount of time or with a single life, or achieving a certain combo or stuff like that to add replay value. Plus maybe some time (or score) attack mode or something like that.

 

[ExtraWildGames]

Yes, many of them.

Cool. Pro-tip: keep the scope as small as possible because often keeps getting bigger and bigger during development.

Instead of adding many stages to provide extra content (that requires a lot of time and money), add stuff like leaderboards, small unlockables or rewards for stuff like clearing each stage under certain amount of time or with a single life, or achieving a certain combo or stuff like that to add replay value. Plus maybe some time (or score) attack mode or something like that.

Oh yeah. I have those in mind.
And don't worry, I have a very locked in scope. I'm not going to add new things along the way. I have a plan and I'm gonna stick to it. If I ever have any ideas, I just have a little write up of it on my trello if the first game does well, and then...

we EXPAND.

 

[Yurinka]

Oh yeah. I have those in mind.
And don't worry, I have a very locked in scope. I'm not going to add new things along the way. I have a plan and I'm gonna stick to it. If I ever have any ideas, I just have a little write up of it on my trello if the first game does well, and then...

we EXPAND.

nice, this is the way

 

[Old Gamer]

Do you, as people of the general public, and as a gamer, really care about "buzzword" design tropes for games? My point being when someone says "this game is a soulslike." I don't really like this one-note sorta offhand denotion of a game. Do you care if an up and coming game is a "Soulslike" or "DMC style" action game? Do those keywords in articles, and sometimes even steam pages themselves, entice you to play the game more?

Roguelikes are becoming a trope, imho.

Keywords like that in a steam page will help, as long as they accurately describe the gameplay, sure. Don't even be shy to name drop inspirations, other fans will appreciate that.

Steam costumers are more interested in solid execution than innovation, tbh.

So, be to the point, but don't lean on buzzwords for marketing - that would backfire.