PlayStation poor acquisition targets & seemingly directionless as a platform/storefront holder

[Nhomnhom]

A lot of you guys really lack the understanding required to navigate the context here.

Sony was struggling as a company for much of the 2010s and only largely got back in good standing in the last few years.

Sony owned like 10% of Square Enix and had to sell those shares in 2014 because they weren't doing so hot. So the idea that it was going to invest heavily into studios and publishers is entirely misguided.

FromSoftware was purchased in April 2014, the same month that Sony sold Square Enix shares. Since the time Sony sold their square enix stock, the company has barely grown.

There are only so many games Sony can publish in a year before their games are competing against themselves, especially now when so many games come out. Buying a multitude of studios, and taking on their debt, isn't an easy recipe for success. Right now Sony gets 30% of these company's sales, without putting a dime into their game development and that pie is going to increase now that Xbox is pretty dead as a brand.

Going back to the GTA3 days, Sony wasn't going to buy Rockstar, which would have required buying T2 Interactive, because gaming wasn't nearly as profitable back then and while GTA was a massive property, T2 wasn't worth it back then. They largely became worth it after they were able to parlay their success from GTA into Red Dead and the successful purchase of Visual Concepts.

Sony not buying Visual Concepts, I think was their biggest mistake, but there are good reasons to not have done that either. Their big game at the time was NFL 2K and EA and the NFL had just made a deal for exclusivity. NHL 2K and NBA 2K weren't that big at the time and they already had a studio making baseball games.

You'll notice all of the companies Sony bought in the 2000s, and 2010s were all really minor studios. Insomniac was probably the most expensive studio they purchased when they purchased it up until the Bungie purchase. And these were only made possible by the success of the PS4 and the projected success of the PS5, catapulted by a digital storefront, that they didn't have in the PS2 days, which only came to be with the PS3 as a viable option with the increase in broadband in households and as we know the PS3 underperformed, so the money didn't really start rolling in until the PS4.

Even looking at the Bungie buy, I think Sony was afraid Microsoft would buy Bungie back and revitalize Halo. They had already purchased out the major FPS studios and Sony needed to ensure they had a presence in FPS, so I think they paid a premium for those things. To prevent Microsoft from getting a 2nd lease on life and from entirely cornering the FPS market.

The ROI on these big purchases don't tend to be great, buying a lot of these companies now will eat into your 3rd party royalties, make managing the studios you already have more difficult, and there is no guarantee of continued success.

Capcom for example has already remade their most popular modern-ish RE games. There is no guarantee that RE5 and 6 remakes would sell all that well. I think they have potential to do other franchise, but who knows how well they'll sell.

Square Enix is a bad purchase however you spin it.

FromSoftware is really dependent on one guy... that's billions of dollars invested in 1 guy who could leave anytime he wants.

Atlus wasn't worth buying until Persona 5 or 4 at best and not buying them really isn't a needle mover, but again they were purchased in 2013 when Sony was having problems financially.

SIE unlike Sony Pictures and Sony Music has to invest in hardware R&D and production every cycle. It's not JUST IP with them.

You really lack the understanding that nobody is going to feel sorry for Sony. If the finacial health of their corporation held them back from making key investments PlayStation needed it's their problem and they will pay a high price for it.

All you do is make excuses for why Sony doesn't need to do anything. Cool, good for them. All they need is to remake games and port games to PC, how exciting.

 

[Yurinka]

All you do is make excuses for why Sony doesn't need to do anything. Cool, good for them. All they need is to remake games and port games to PC, how exciting.

In recent times SIE is performing better than ever (or almost) in all their areas, and growing in all of them in existing or new markets, with all -or most- of their KPIs at all time record levels and in a growing trend. So no, they don't have any need of making a huge acquisition.

Specially when PlayStation keeps growing their market share and MS is transitioning to a full multiplatform publisher role in consoles.

In recent times SIE made acquisitions to grow in shooters, MP, GaaS, PC, eSports, accesories plus growing their console gamedev team. They already grew/continue growing there, now their growth focus will be moved to mobile. So pretty likely potential future acquisitions may be related to grow in mobile, in addition to maybe some of these previously mentioned growth areas.

 

[Yurinka]

You'll notice all of the companies Sony bought in the 2000s, and 2010s were all really minor studios.

San Diego Studio, Guerrilla, Naughty Dog, Media Molecule, Sucker Punch, Insomniac... Sony made many great acquisitions during the 2000s and 2010s.

Even looking at the Bungie buy, I think Sony was afraid Microsoft would buy Bungie back and revitalize Halo.

Sony was always the publisher of Destiny 1 and Destiny 2 in Japan. They had the marketing deal for both games, with and without Activision. Bungie already left MS and rejected MS when tried to bring them back a while ago, so I don't think Sony would be worried about losing them.

I think Sony wanted to grow in the shooters, MP, GaaS and outside PS 1st party revenue, plus game to movie/tv show adaptions. So they went to get their closest and most successful long term partner they had in these areas: Bungie.

The ROI on these big purchases don't tend to be great, buying a lot of these companies now will eat into your 3rd party royalties, make managing the studios you already have more difficult, and there is no guarantee of continued success.

For Sony it would be better to get 100% of the revenue they make in all platform vs 30% of the revenue they make only in PS.

Companies like Capcom or Square are profitable and are in a long term growing trend regarding their revenue and profits. So would be a good acquisition for anybody. Specially for a company like Sony, who in addition to add their revenue and profit on top, they'd generate many gaming and non-gaming synergies that would further increase their revenue and profit.

Capcom for example has already remade their most popular modern-ish RE games. There is no guarantee that RE5 and 6 remakes would sell all that well. I think they have potential to do other franchise, but who knows how well they'll sell.

RE remakes sell very well. RE5 and RE6 sold way better than the previously remade games. So remakes of RE5 and RE6 pretty likely would sell better than the other remakes. Non-remake mainline RE games also sell very well, like Monster Hunter, Street Fighter or Devil May Cry.

Capcom has a rich history of creating many classic IPs. The next one could be Pragmata. And well, Capcom and Square have an important presence in PC and mobile, so would help them grow there.

Square Enix is a bad purchase however you spin it.

Nah, to say SE would be a bad acquisition is something nonsensical, you're the one spinning it.

In the last 10 years Square Enix doubled their yearly revenue and multiplied their net profit by like 10x.

Plus they have the currently most successful MMORPG of the moment, dominate the JRPG market, have several key IPs important for console plus other stuff interesting for other divisions like manga IPs like Fullmetal Alchemist or Hi Score Girl, and many other random mangas whose anime adaptations are being aired in Crunchyroll like Samurai Flamenco. In addition to shis, in their publishing side they make the most popular game guides, artbooks and gaming magazines of Japan. Plus also have an audiovisual production company etc. So there are many potential synergies in both sides that could arise from an acquisition.

The only downside would be that Sony maybe doesn't want to acquire a company with presence in some markets they don't cover, as could be arcade game development, arcade facilities management, manga/book/magazine publishing or blockchain business.

FromSoftware is really dependent on one guy... that's billions of dollars invested in 1 guy who could leave anytime he wants.

This is nonsensical, there isn't any AA/AAA gamedev studio that depends on a single guy. As an example, Sony got dozens of exclusives by FromSoft where that guy didn't work.

Atlus wasn't worth buying until Persona 5 or 4 at best and not buying them really isn't a needle mover, but again they were purchased in 2013 when Sony was having problems financially.

SIE unlike Sony Pictures and Sony Music has to invest in hardware R&D and production every cycle. It's not JUST IP with them.

 

[Yurinka]

Skydance Still In Pole Position For Paramount As Two Hash Out Terms; Sony & Apollo Waiting In The Wings​

https://deadline.com/2024/04/skydance-paramount-shari-redstone-sony-apollo-1235895060/

Paramount CEO Bob Bakish (apparently he was against the merge with Skydance) could be out as soon as Monday as Skydance merger talks continue​

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/27/par...monday-as-skydance-merger-talks-continue.html

It would be fun to see another twist (which I assume won't happen): Skydance merges with Paramount Global and gets rid of its debt. Later Sony acquires the resulting merged company.

 

[mibu no ookami]

San Diego Studio, Guerrilla, Naughty Dog, Media Molecule, Sucker Punch, Insomniac... Sony made many great acquisitions during the 2000s and 2010s.

Sony didn't buy San Diego Studio.

Sony was always the publisher of Destiny 1 and Destiny 2 in Japan. They had the marketing deal for both games, with and without Activision. Bungie already left MS and rejected MS when tried to bring them back a while ago, so I don't think Sony would be worried about losing them.

Microsoft and Bungie were rumored to have discussed talks about a re-acquisition, but that it fell apart because of Bungie's asking price.

For Sony it would be better to get 100% of the revenue they make in all platform vs 30% of the revenue they make only in PS.

Companies like Capcom or Square are profitable and are in a long term growing trend regarding their revenue and profits. So would be a good acquisition for anybody. Specially for a company like Sony, who in addition to add their revenue and profit on top, they'd generate many gaming and non-gaming synergies that would further increase their revenue and profit.

You're ignoring the element of risk and exposure. Sony doesn't have ANY risk or exposure with the 30% for the full 100 they not only need to fund these projects but buy the companies as well. That's extremely risky.

RE remakes sell very well. RE5 and RE6 sold way better than the previously remade games. So remakes of RE5 and RE6 pretty likely would sell better than the other remakes. Non-remake mainline RE games also sell very well, like Monster Hunter, Street Fighter or Devil May Cry.

5 and 6 are still available on PS4 and thus PS5. Remakes for these games will do significantly less to upgrade them than the previous games.

Capcom has a rich history of creating many classic IPs. The next one could be Pragmata. And well, Capcom and Square have an important presence in PC and mobile, so would help them grow there.


Nah, to say SE would be a bad acquisition is something nonsensical, you're the one spinning it.

In the last 10 years Square Enix doubled their yearly revenue and multiplied their net profit by like 10x.

Now do their market cap.

Plus they have the currently most successful MMORPG of the moment, dominate the JRPG market, have several key IPs important for console plus other stuff interesting for other divisions like manga IPs like Fullmetal Alchemist or Hi Score Girl, and many other random mangas whose anime adaptations are being aired in Crunchyroll like Samurai Flamenco. In addition to shis, in their publishing side they make the most popular game guides, artbooks and gaming magazines of Japan. Plus also have an audiovisual production company etc. So there are many potential synergies in both sides that could arise from an acquisition.

These are synergies, but they're also small peanuts compared to what they're trying to do with companies like Paramount.

The only downside would be that Sony maybe doesn't want to acquire a company with presence in some markets they don't cover, as could be arcade game development, arcade facilities management, manga/book/magazine publishing or blockchain business.

Even more reason to not purchase them...

This is nonsensical, there isn't any AA/AAA gamedev studio that depends on a single guy. As an example, Sony got dozens of exclusives by FromSoft where that guy didn't work.

Simply not true. I guess it depends on your definition of reliance, but many companies rely on the brilliance of directors, producers, designers, and writers, and you can feel their absence when they leave.

 

[mibu no ookami]

You really lack the understanding that nobody is going to feel sorry for Sony. If the finacial health of their corporation held them back from making key investments PlayStation needed it's their problem and they will pay a high price for it.

All you do is make excuses for why Sony doesn't need to do anything. Cool, good for them. All they need is to remake games and port games to PC, how exciting.

It's not excuses, it's reality.

You're saying they should have done something in the past that they were not in a position to do and then you say the fact that they weren't in a position to do your fictional desire is an excuse... that's clownish.

 

[Nhomnhom]

It's not excuses, it's reality.

You're saying they should have done something in the past that they were not in a position to do and then you say the fact that they weren't in a position to do your fictional desire is an excuse... that's clownish.

The only clownish thing here is your Sony boot liking, have some self respect.

 

[Yurinka]

Sony didn't buy San Diego Studio.

San Diego Studio was a rebranding of Red Zone Interactive, acquired by SIE (back then SCE) and merged with 989 Sports in 2001.

Microsoft and Bungie were rumored to have discussed talks about a re-acquisition, but that it fell apart because of Bungie's asking price.

Rumors also say Michael Jackson was an alien from another planet.

You're ignoring the element of risk and exposure. Sony doesn't have ANY risk or exposure with the 30% for the full 100 they not only need to fund these projects but buy the companies as well. That's extremely risky.

Well, you can say it's safer for them to sit and see 3rd parties give them their 30%.

But you can also say that to don't acquire them is riskier because some hostile actor could acquire them and move them outside PS (Meta, Valve, Apple, Google, Epic, Tencent, MS, Nintendo...), specially in a time of industry consolidation where multiplatform stores/ecosystems apparently are starting to emerge.

On top of that, owning them would secure not only their support, but also good management -at least following Sony's interests- and to push potential synergies while blocking them with rival actors (example: inclusion of their games in PS+ vs GP, making movie adaptations with them vs with other people, etc).

5 and 6 are still available on PS4 and thus PS5. Remakes for these games will do significantly less to upgrade them than the previous games.

As also were 2, 3 and 4. Capcom always does ports, remasters and remakes of a ton of stuff.

Now do their market cap.

Pretty cheap for their performance. Their stock value highly grew a lot in the last 5 or 10 years even considering the post covid "coming back to reality" drop.

Capcom market cap $8,84B

Square Enix market cap $4,4B

These are synergies, but they're also small peanuts compared to what they're trying to do with companies like Paramount.

Yes, Paramount Global has a much bigger scale than Square Enix or Capcom. Paramount makes $30B in revenue and $10B of gross profit per year.

Even more reason to not purchase them...

Square Enix, Capcom or Paramount Global would be all 3 great acquisitions for Sony. If Sony doesn't acquire them is because either they don't want to sell -at least to Sony- or because Sony considers it would be better to do it later once they improve SIE's revenue and profitability.

Simply not true. I guess it depends on your definition of reliance, but many companies rely on the brilliance of directors, producers, designers, and writers, and you can feel their absence when they leave.

Of course it's true.

Miyazaki doesn't do the production, concept art character, art, animation, texturing, lighting, game design, programming, narrative, UI, music, audio design, QA, and a long etc.

In fact, even regarding the game direction, he isn't the only game director: Armored Core V, Elden Ring, Sekiro, Deracine, Dark Soul 3 had multiple codirectors.

And this is not counting directors for each gamedev area (battle, programming, character art, environment art etc), which are other people. And ignoring input that may come from the editorial team or producers of their publisher, which I assume grant them creative freedom.

He being the one who appears in the interviews doesn't mean he's the only one who makes the game. There are like over a thousand people involved in their games. As director he -or another codirector, or a designer etc. may ask to include an enemy with a mouth in the chest-, but the concept artist sucks the enemy will suck, or if it's very talented will be an iconic one. Same goes with people who later will have to model, animate it, etc., the designers who will define their behavior, the programmers who will implement them, etc. Having the same direction, if all this people is talented and does a great job the enemy will be great, if not will suck.

 

[Box]

You really lack the understanding that nobody is going to feel sorry for Sony. If the finacial health of their corporation held them back from making key investments PlayStation needed it's their problem and they will pay a high price for it.

All you do is make excuses for why Sony doesn't need to do anything. Cool, good for them. All they need is to remake games and port games to PC, how exciting.

Exactly, it's not our job to prop up Sony.

 

[mibu no ookami]

San Diego Studio was a rebranding of Red Zone Interactive, acquired by SIE (back then SCE) and merged with 989 Sports in 2001.

989 Sports was an internal studio. They brought 65 people in from Red Zone. Calling San Diego Studios an external studio is highly misleading.

Rumors also say Michael Jackson was an alien from another planet.

No credible rumors suggest that. Which isn't what can be said for Microsoft looking to buy Bungie. It's even reported in the FTC documents that Microsoft was looking at Bungie.

Well, you can say it's safer for them to sit and see 3rd parties give them their 30%.

But you can also say that to don't acquire them is riskier because some hostile actor could acquire them and move them outside PS (Meta, Valve, Apple, Google, Epic, Tencent, MS, Nintendo...), specially in a time of industry consolidation where multiplatform stores/ecosystems apparently are starting to emerge.

Large scale acquisitions are going to be rare, especially ones that foreclose on Sony's 30% as we can even see with ABK. Outside of Bethesda, no high profile games have really been foreclosed at all.

Most consolidation will come in the form of companies like Namco Bandai and T2 and Zynga.

On top of that, owning them would secure not only their support, but also good management -at least following Sony's interests- and to push potential synergies while blocking them with rival actors (example: inclusion of their games in PS+ vs GP, making movie adaptations with them vs with other people, etc).

A lot of that comes at the cost of the companies actual profitability i.e. Dragon Quest or Monster Hunter on Switch. It's a dicey proposition to buy a company and then you have to make the decision whether to make their content exclusive or not. It's extremely risky as I said and the more expensive the company the higher the risk. When it comes to Square Enix, there is little benefit to be had.

As also were 2, 3 and 4. Capcom always does ports, remasters and remakes of a ton of stuff.


Pretty cheap for their performance. Their stock value highly grew a lot in the last 5 or 10 years even considering the post covid "coming back to reality" drop.

Capcom market cap $8,84B

They're SIGNIFICANTLY higher than they were in 2020... you're blind.

Square Enix market cap $4,4B

Yes, Paramount Global has a much bigger scale than Square Enix or Capcom. Paramount makes $30B in revenue and $10B of gross profit per year.


Square Enix, Capcom or Paramount Global would be all 3 great acquisitions for Sony. If Sony doesn't acquire them is because either they don't want to sell -at least to Sony- or because Sony considers it would be better to do it later once they improve SIE's revenue and profitability.

Compare this to Square Enix back when Sony owned their stock and eventually sold which was 2014. They've barely grown as a company since. For some reason you're only looking back to 2019 here.

I'd be stunned if Sony bought Square Enix. It's a pretty obviously poor investment with little reason to do so.

The worst case scenario Nintendo buys Square Enix, which I doubt they'd do and you still don't really lose anything. PlayStation is no longer built around Final Fantasy.

Of course it's true.

Miyazaki doesn't do the production, concept art character, art, animation, texturing, lighting, game design, programming, narrative, UI, music, audio design, QA, and a long etc.

In fact, even regarding the game direction, he isn't the only game director: Armored Core V, Elden Ring, Sekiro, Deracine, Dark Soul 3 had multiple codirectors.

He's the key guy and presumably a lot of people would go with him. Sony just remade Demon's Souls without From and had very limited success as a result.

 

[mibu no ookami]

The only clownish thing here is your Sony boot liking, have some self respect.

I call Sony out for poor moves all the time. I just don't live in the fantasy world you live in, of oh they should have bought this company when they had the chance, despite them not having the money to do so.

You guys are the hindsight police.

Ironically, you give no credit to Sony for the studios they DID buy and cultivate for minimal cost and complain about their acquisitions that haven't even had games release yet.

 

[Petekilla]

Exactly, it's not our job to prop up Sony.

But it’s also not your job to doom and gloom about everything.

 

[Petekilla]

San Diego Studio, Guerrilla, Naughty Dog, Media Molecule, Sucker Punch, Insomniac... Sony made many great acquisitions during the 2000s and 2010s.


Sony was always the publisher of Destiny 1 and Destiny 2 in Japan. They had the marketing deal for both games, with and without Activision. Bungie already left MS and rejected MS when tried to bring them back a while ago, so I don't think Sony would be worried about losing them.

I think Sony wanted to grow in the shooters, MP, GaaS and outside PS 1st party revenue, plus game to movie/tv show adaptions. So they went to get their closest and most successful long term partner they had in these areas: Bungie.


For Sony it would be better to get 100% of the revenue they make in all platform vs 30% of the revenue they make only in PS.

Companies like Capcom or Square are profitable and are in a long term growing trend regarding their revenue and profits. So would be a good acquisition for anybody. Specially for a company like Sony, who in addition to add their revenue and profit on top, they'd generate many gaming and non-gaming synergies that would further increase their revenue and profit.


RE remakes sell very well. RE5 and RE6 sold way better than the previously remade games. So remakes of RE5 and RE6 pretty likely would sell better than the other remakes. Non-remake mainline RE games also sell very well, like Monster Hunter, Street Fighter or Devil May Cry.

Capcom has a rich history of creating many classic IPs. The next one could be Pragmata. And well, Capcom and Square have an important presence in PC and mobile, so would help them grow there.


Nah, to say SE would be a bad acquisition is something nonsensical, you're the one spinning it.

In the last 10 years Square Enix doubled their yearly revenue and multiplied their net profit by like 10x.

Plus they have the currently most successful MMORPG of the moment, dominate the JRPG market, have several key IPs important for console plus other stuff interesting for other divisions like manga IPs like Fullmetal Alchemist or Hi Score Girl, and many other random mangas whose anime adaptations are being aired in Crunchyroll like Samurai Flamenco. In addition to shis, in their publishing side they make the most popular game guides, artbooks and gaming magazines of Japan. Plus also have an audiovisual production company etc. So there are many potential synergies in both sides that could arise from an acquisition.

The only downside would be that Sony maybe doesn't want to acquire a company with presence in some markets they don't cover, as could be arcade game development, arcade facilities management, manga/book/magazine publishing or blockchain business.


This is nonsensical, there isn't any AA/AAA gamedev studio that depends on a single guy. As an example, Sony got dozens of exclusives by FromSoft where that guy didn't work.

Kojima Productions is dependent on a single person.

 

[Nhomnhom]

I call Sony out for poor moves all the time. I just don't live in the fantasy world you live in, of oh they should have bought this company when they had the chance, despite them not having the money to do so.

You guys are the hindsight police.

Ironically, you give no credit to Sony for the studios they DID buy and cultivate for minimal cost and complain about their acquisitions that haven't even had games release yet.

Hindsight? FromSoftware was already far into developing Bloodborne when Sony had the chance to acquire them. Altus had just released P4G and was working on P5.

You come here insulting everyone with your boring posts acting like you are better than everyone but it's clear you don't know what you are talking about at all.

Sony got very few of their recent acquisitions rigth and the bulk of the money was spent on shit like Bungie and Haven.

 

[Yurinka]

989 Sports was an internal studio. They brought 65 people in from Red Zone. Calling San Diego Studios an external studio is highly misleading.

Isn't misleading at all, in 1999 none of them were part of SCE. 989 was an internal Sony studio, but was included back to SCE in 2000. Redzone (bigger team of the two) was acquired and merged with 989 in 2021 being rebranded as San Diego Studio.

No credible rumors suggest that. Which isn't what can be said for Microsoft looking to buy Bungie. It's even reported in the FTC documents that Microsoft was looking at Bungie.

What apppears in the FTC papers is that as part of monitoring the market for potential acquisitions, MS did check a fuck ton of companies to test the waters, which doesn't mean they were seriously trying to acquire all of them, just to check the state and chances of the best candidates. In case of Bungie, they mentioned to be rejected and too tied with Sony.

Large scale acquisitions are going to be rare, especially ones that foreclose on Sony's 30% as we can even see with ABK. Outside of Bethesda, no high profile games have really been foreclosed at all.

Most consolidation will come in the form of companies like Namco Bandai and T2 and Zynga.

We're in a consolidation stage of the industry, and the same time in a financial crysis, and at the same time with the market with a relative stagnant growth, meaning large acquisitions will happen first because the big actors will want to continue growing via acquisitions when seeing they have difficulties to grow organically.

At the same time, smaller actors are seeing investors and publishers moving away and being more conservative, so giving them less funding, with combined with stagnant growth will make them weaker and more likely to had to fire a good amount of people or needing to sell to continue stable, making acquisitions more likely.

Take 2 already acquired Zynga. EA, Take 2, Bandai Namco, Capcom and Square Enix are going to be the first targets for larger acquirers, followed by non-Chinese top mobile gaming companies. But many of them won't want to sell, so will acquire smaller teams instead.

A lot of that comes at the cost of the companies actual profitability i.e. Dragon Quest or Monster Hunter on Switch. It's a dicey proposition to buy a company and then you have to make the decision whether to make their content exclusive or not. It's extremely risky as I said and the more expensive the company the higher the risk. When it comes to Square Enix, there is little benefit to be had.

If MS or Sony acquires some large publisher like Square Enix, Capcom, Bandai Namco or Sega will let them multiplatform, as did with Mojang, Zenimax, Bungie or ABK. Because their idea acquiring them is growing MS/Sony business by becoming multiplatform using external brands, instead of reducing the business of the acquired companies.

If acquired they'd allow games like these to appear on Nintendo, but as multiplatform titles or late ports, not as Nintendo timed or total exclusives.

They're SIGNIFICANTLY higher than they were in 2020... you're blind.

You're the blind one here. I'm the one saying and showing the receipts that they have been improving their revenue, profits and stock price during many years, so are in great shape and are a good acquisition.

Compare this to Square Enix back when Sony owned their stock and eventually sold which was 2014. They've barely grown as a company since. For some reason you're only looking back to 2019 here.

Growth in 10 years:
-Market cap: from $2.4B to $4.4B
-Revenue: from $1.6B to $2.5B/year

Almost twice more valuable now than back then.

I'd be stunned if Sony bought Square Enix. It's a pretty obviously poor investment with little reason to do so.

In fantasy land may be a poor investment. In the real world the factual data says the opposite, that is one of the biggest publishers, key player in some genres/subgenres, with several very valuable assets, in a very healthy state and in a growing pattern and with a relatively low price.

Sony just remade Demon's Souls without From and had very limited success as a result.

It's being more successful than the original one even if released to a way smaller userbase.

 

[Box]

But it’s also not your job to doom and gloom about everything.

we are allowed to criticse the things we love

 

[mibu no ookami]

Hindsight? FromSoftware was already far into developing Bloodborne when Sony had the chance to acquire them. Altus had just released P4G and was working on P5.

They didn't have the money to buy them. They couldn't even keep the square stock they owned.

You come here insulting everyone with your boring posts acting like you are better than everyone but it's clear you don't know what you are talking about at all.

the irony...

Sony got very few of their recent acquisitions rigth and the bulk of the money was spent on shit like Bungie and Haven.

See what I mean? You have no idea what you're talking about.

Did they get Firewalk right? We have no idea yet. Bluepoint? Who knows? Housemarque? What about Audiokinetic, Audeze and iSize?

Bungie and Haven are shit? What are you basing that on? You're absolutely going to eat crow on Bungie too, which is hilarious and soon. Final Shape is going to be really successful.

It can take 10+ years to ascertain whether or not a purchase was a good one, but somehow you think you can judge companies that were purchased in 2021 and 2022 already? That's clownish.

Even Firesprite, who I think they probably shouldn't have purchased, can't be judged ultimately this quickly.

 

[anonpuffs]

They didn't have the money to buy them. They couldn't even keep the square stock they owned.



the irony...



See what I mean? You have no idea what you're talking about.

Did they get Firewalk right? We have no idea yet. Bluepoint? Who knows? Housemarque? What about Audiokinetic, Audeze and iSize?

Bungie and Haven are shit? What are you basing that on? You're absolutely going to eat crow on Bungie too, which is hilarious and soon. Final Shape is going to be really successful.

It can take 10+ years to ascertain whether or not a purchase was a good one, but somehow you think you can judge companies that were purchased in 2021 and 2022 already? That's clownish.

Even Firesprite, who I think they probably shouldn't have purchased, can't be judged ultimately this quickly.

I can already tell you that Audeze was 100% a good purchase.

 

[mibu no ookami]

Isn't misleading at all, in 1999 none of them were part of SCE. 989 was an internal Sony studio, but was included back to SCE in 2000. Redzone (bigger team of the two) was acquired and merged with 989 in 2021 being rebranded as San Diego Studio

LOL, just say you were wrong. Sony has restructured studios many times. SCE barely did internal development back in the day, but we're talking about PlayStation as a whole not just SCEA. Before 989 Sports existed it was an internal team at 989 Studios, before they were 989 studios they were Sony Interactive Studios America, before they were Sony Interactive Studios America, they were Sony Imagesoft.

What exists at San Diego Studio existed well before they bought Red Zone Interactive and they were already making the MLB games that would turn into The Show. In addition Red Zone Interactive was former members of that same company. They basically just brought them back.

What apppears in the FTC papers is that as part of monitoring the market for potential acquisitions, MS did check a fuck ton of companies to test the waters, which doesn't mean they were seriously trying to acquire all of them, just to check the state and chances of the best candidates. In case of Bungie, they mentioned to be rejected and too tied with Sony.

My point is that gives validity to the rumors. Please show me where they were mentioned as being rejected and too tied to Sony.

We're in a consolidation stage of the industry, and the same time in a financial crysis, and at the same time with the market with a relative stagnant growth, meaning large acquisitions will happen first because the big actors will want to continue growing via acquisitions when seeing they have difficulties to grow organically.

To an extent, but you're conflating the era of easy money to an era of high interest rates and low sales. As I said, consolidation is going to happen more along terms of mergers rather than acquisition. You're going to see more like sized companies merge their companies rather than see large companies purchase large publishers to foreclose from Sony.

At the same time, smaller actors are seeing investors and publishers moving away and being more conservative, so giving them less funding, with combined with stagnant growth will make them weaker and more likely to had to fire a good amount of people or needing to sell to continue stable, making acquisitions more likely.

Take 2 already acquired Zynga. EA, Take 2, Bandai Namco, Capcom and Square Enix are going to be the first targets for larger acquirers, followed by non-Chinese top mobile gaming companies. But many of them won't want to sell, so will acquire smaller teams instead.

Case in point, none of these resulted in foreclosure.

If MS or Sony acquires some large publisher like Square Enix, Capcom, Bandai Namco or Sega will let them multiplatform, as did with Mojang, Zenimax, Bungie or ABK. Because their idea acquiring them is growing MS/Sony business by becoming multiplatform using external brands, instead of reducing the business of the acquired companies.

Microsoft itself is already going 3rd party. There is little value in Sony buying a company to take on their debt and risk if it's not getting exclusive games and there is no longer any value in foreclosing on Xbox. The question is whether there is value on foreclosing on Switch and the answer is likely no.

If Sony bought Square Enix they would absolutely stop them publishing on Xbox. Same with any other company you listed. Bungie was a rare exception.

If acquired they'd allow games like these to appear on Nintendo, but as multiplatform titles or late ports, not as Nintendo timed or total exclusives.

Sony will put out their own handheld in a couple years. We'll see how likely they are to not want to foreclose on Switch then.

You're the blind one here. I'm the one saying and showing the receipts that they have been improving their revenue, profits and stock price during many years, so are in great shape and are a good acquisition.


Growth in 10 years:
-Market cap: from $2.4B to $4.4B
-Revenue: from $1.6B to $2.5B/year

Almost twice more valuable now than back then.

In fantasy land may be a poor investment. In the real world the factual data says the opposite, that is one of the biggest publishers, key player in some genres/subgenres, with several very valuable assets, in a very healthy state and in a growing pattern and with a relatively low price.


It's being more successful than the original one even if released to a way smaller userbase.

They went from 3.8 billion USD in market cap to 4.47 billion in market cap in 10 years... that is not a success. That's a CARG of 1.64% Well below any reasonable rate of return. And the reality is that Square Enix would have likely been worth even less without releases on Switch and PC, which Sony probably wouldn't have allowed back in 2014.

Notice how you can't even make a cogent argument here. You randomly pick years. We're talking about 2014 when Sony sold their stock.

Even looking at 2.4 billion in 2009, that's still a CARG of only 4.23 percent.

No one is going to say that is good.

 

[Nhomnhom]

They didn't have the money to buy them. They couldn't even keep the square stock they owned.



the irony...



See what I mean? You have no idea what you're talking about.

Did they get Firewalk right? We have no idea yet. Bluepoint? Who knows? Housemarque? What about Audiokinetic, Audeze and iSize?

Bungie and Haven are shit? What are you basing that on? You're absolutely going to eat crow on Bungie too, which is hilarious and soon. Final Shape is going to be really successful.

It can take 10+ years to ascertain whether or not a purchase was a good one, but somehow you think you can judge companies that were purchased in 2021 and 2022 already? That's clownish.

Even Firesprite, who I think they probably shouldn't have purchased, can't be judged ultimately this quickly.

Poor Sony with no money, paid almost $400m for Gaikai and $1.5B for Sony Sony Ericsson, not to mention tons of other acquisitions for their TV and Music Business... but they didn't have the money to set up PlayStation for future success with key acquisitions.

All along they kept making the same mistake of not believing in the strength of their own gaming business and brand.