Sony Pictures reportedly in talks to buy Paramount. |UP|Sony Makes $26 Billion All-Cash Offer for Paramount.

[mibu no ookami]

you think you know better than anyone here but in reality you're the one looking like a fanboy and just looking stupid in general with your TERRIBLE takes, even Sony themselfs were not happy with Bungie and the current situation at the company missing its internal targets, they overpaid for Bungie, today Bungie would not even be worth half of what Sony paid in 2022 if they remained independent, you live in a fairlytail world where Bungie (a company that hates to be controlled, only sold themselfs to Sony with the guarantee that they would take their own decisions and remain "independent" in that aspect and already split from MS to not be obligated to develop Halo in the past), would all of a sudden... sell to Microsoft again, abandon Destiny from day to night to focus on saving an IP that has no savings, that's exactly why Destiny was created in the first place, to replace it cause Bungie themselfs saw that there was nothing else to be made with Halo after Reach in the traditional format the game existed

and by your logic, acquiring Activision was fairly better in the eyes of Microsoft, specially if they want to "save" Halo since now they own multiple FPS studios (the best FPS studios in the industry) that work on the biggest FPS franchise of all time, Call Of Duty, and Sony? lost more franchises they could market and use to impulse PlayStation, and don't even pretend Call Of Duty is not important to PlayStation because it is and you know it is, much more important than Destiny revenue and profit wise, not to mention its popularity globally, but go ahead and continue with the "Sony doesn't need to buy any publisher" argument, once there is no more big game publishers in the industry and everything is dominated by companies larger than Sony, they'll be the big players in the industry, not SIE, that's something you seem to fail to understand

Themselfs?

Jesus...

Sony had criticism of Bungie, that doesn't mean they regret the purchase. Again, there is no circumstances in which you're willing to go on the record to state that Bungie was worth it. Marathon could generate a billion dollars a year and you'd still say it wasn't worth it.

Microsoft was considering buying Bungie. Rumors are they didn't land on a price. It can not be ignored that if Bungie returned to Halo, it could create a massively popular modern franchise. It simply can not be. It seems like you want to ignore how popular Destiny is.

Your second paragraph is so incoherent, I can't even begin to respond to it...

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I won't be surprised if Sony attempts to acquire T2 in the next couple of years

I don't think that would fly. T2 and GTA are too big for the #1 console platform holder to buy. They could use a myriad of arguments/tactics to justify that type of M&A, though.

• Sony hasn't been carried by PlayStation, in fact in the dark days of PlayStation (PS3) it was the other divisions that carried PlayStation

No, the other divisions are why the PS3 was overloaded at launch because they were pushing their own stuff onto SIE (like with the Blu-Ray drive). SIE pulled themselves up after soft-rebranding PS3 in 2009. The other divisions did nothing for SIE from 2006-2008 and in fact at one point Sony as a whole were considering if PlayStation should've been shut down to help with their corporate issues.

Turns out it was a SIE alumni (Kaz) who helped save Sony; SIE's recovery was the face of Sony's resurgence in the late '00s/early '10s.

• Licensing IP for games is tricky, it takes the right timing and the right partner, and the right IP
  • Sony was not a major software developer in the PS1 and PS2 days, this only happened more towards the middle to end of the PS3 days, and became something larger in the PS4 days

Kind of arguable. They were definitely a big force for PS1 in the latter years with Gran Turismo, Syphon Filter, Ape Escape etc. Those games were up there with a lot of the big 3P titles in terms of quality and overall mindshare, it's just that PS1 was also lucrative for 3P in a way N64 & Saturn simply weren't. Same with PS2; even more so arguably.

If Sony is able to reboot Mission Impossible without Tom Cruise, they'll definitely make MI games internally at SIE. TMNT, Avatar (ATLA), and Spongebob, all make a lot of sense. Licensing out Top Gun to Namco Bandai makes a lot of sense too.

Well Bandai-Namco already have Ace Combat series, so them taking on Top Gun would come down to if they felt the Ace Combat style of gameplay could get better market reception with the Top Gun IP.

Which, honestly, it 100% would. So that would be a win/win for both parties.

They're investing plenty into PlayStation. From Chine Hero, Publisher deals, all of this while they are still burning so much cash on their first party which are in their development cycle, doing major discounts on Games & PS+.

That being said, Sony group will not just take entirety of its cash and invest into SIE, that's not how a corporation works.

Those aren't the type of investments people are talking about. China Hero Project may or may not get them mass-market IPs where they have some skin in the game (in terms of IP ownership). With Stellar Blade for example, SIE helped with funding & development, but Shift Up own the IP rights. SIE just have a publishing deal with the game; if they expand on that with publishing of more games and/or share purchases & investments once Shift Up go public, cool.

"Burning cash" on their 1P would insinuate the money's being wasted and not getting returns, which is false. Change of plans and some redundant spending might've shrunk profit margins, but the profit is still there. And it's specific studios like Bungie which might've been overspending for a period of time.

The issue is the cadence of moves with SIE over the past several months with little revealed about new 1P titles, no real roadmap still for the rest of PS5 generation beyond a couple GAAS titles, internal 1P content production having slowed down etc. This is why gaming M&As, or at least more strategic investments into 3P for new co-dev'd exclusives covering AAA and AA, or expanding their internal 1P teams to develop more AAA & AA games in tandem, would be seen as helpful.

 

[Etifilio]

Themselfs?

Jesus...

Sony had criticism of Bungie, that doesn't mean they regret the purchase. Again, there is no circumstances in which you're willing to go on the record to state that Bungie was worth it. Marathon could generate a billion dollars a year and you'd still say it wasn't worth it.

Microsoft was considering buying Bungie. Rumors are they didn't land on a price. It can not be ignored that if Bungie returned to Halo, it could create a massively popular modern franchise. It simply can not be. It seems like you want to ignore how popular Destiny is.

Your second paragraph is so incoherent, I can't even begin to respond to it...

i never said Sony regrets buying Bungie, stop putting words in my mouth, i said they OVERPAID for the company, it was not worth the 3.6B dollars that they're STILL PAYING (a part of why their profit margis are so thin today) and i also said Sony is not happy with the current situation of the studio, and that's all true, half of their live service games are all cancelled now and the industry is fatigued of live service games, not only Sony lost a lot of money on Bungie that they're still trying to recoup but they lost A LOT of money on live service games that they've cancelled, i'm not even going to mention all of them here, you know them, not all live service games work, the ones that work, like Helldivers 2 are the exception, and these games would exist with or without Bungie cause Sony was already making them, yes their experise in the area may have helped but it costed Sony a lot of money that they're still trying to recoup, we don't know how Concord or Fairgame$ will perform, if these games turn out to be failures, we'll see more studio closures and layoffs at SIE

 

[mibu no ookami]

i never said Sony regrets buying Bungie, stop putting words in my mouth, i said they OVERPAID for the company, it was not worth the 3.6B dollars that they're STILL PAYING (a part of why their profit margis are so thin today) and i also said Sony is not happy with the current situation of the studio, and that's all true, half of their live service games are all cancelled now and the industry is fatigued of live service games, not only Sony lost a lot of money on Bungie that they're still trying to recoup but they lost A LOT of money on live service games that they've cancelled, i'm not even going to mention all of them here, you know them, not all live service games work, the ones that work, like Helldivers 2 are the exception, and these games would exist with or without Bungie cause Sony was already making them, yes their experise in the area may have helped but it costed Sony a lot of money that they're still trying to recoup, we don't know how Concord or Fairgame$ will perform, if these games turn out to be failures, we'll see more studio closures and layoffs at SIE

Hilarious for you to think that GaaS games are the only games that have been canceled.

Again, how much will it take for you to say Bungie wasn't overpriced?

Firesprite is largely a failure so far and had nothing to do with GaaS... there is risk involved with buying any studio, which again, is why Sony is buying IP and talent rather than just spending billions on publishers.

 

[mibu no ookami]

I don't think that would fly. T2 and GTA are too big for the #1 console platform holder to buy. They could use a myriad of arguments/tactics to justify that type of M&A, though.

If Xbox doesn't exist and GTA has never been on Nintendo, regulators won't have a leg to stand on here.

You can't just make up a legal argument hear with no foundation.

Regulators weren't able to stop Microsoft from buying ABK, they won't have much success with stopping Sony from buying a much smaller company with a game that they're still going to drop on PC.

No, the other divisions are why the PS3 was overloaded at launch because they were pushing their own stuff onto SIE (like with the Blu-Ray drive). SIE pulled themselves up after soft-rebranding PS3 in 2009. The other divisions did nothing for SIE from 2006-2008 and in fact at one point Sony as a whole were considering if PlayStation should've been shut down to help with their corporate issues.

SIE was unprofitable for YEARS due to the PS3.

The other divisions kept Sony from losing even more money.

Turns out it was a SIE alumni (Kaz) who helped save Sony; SIE's recovery was the face of Sony's resurgence in the late '00s/early '10s.

Again, while he turned the company around, his misses have them behind the 8 ball.

Kind of arguable. They were definitely a big force for PS1 in the latter years with Gran Turismo, Syphon Filter, Ape Escape etc. Those games were up there with a lot of the big 3P titles in terms of quality and overall mindshare, it's just that PS1 was also lucrative for 3P in a way N64 & Saturn simply weren't. Same with PS2; even more so arguably.

Gran Turismo was their only big hitter on PS1. Syphon Filter didn't sell all that well (also was made by Eidetic who was 2nd party at the time before being purchased and becoming Sony Bend). Ape escape never sold well.

Well Bandai-Namco already have Ace Combat series, so them taking on Top Gun would come down to if they felt the Ace Combat style of gameplay could get better market reception with the Top Gun IP.

We already know they do because they tried to do a Maverick expansion on Ace Combat.

 

[Etifilio]

Hilarious for you to think that GaaS games are the only games that have been canceled.

Again, how much will it take for you to say Bungie wasn't overpriced?

Firesprite is largely a failure so far and had nothing to do with GaaS... there is risk involved with buying any studio, which again, is why Sony is buying IP and talent rather than just spending billions on publishers.

the biggest risk is on buying the studios they're buying... what was the reason to buy Haven and Firewalk before any of them released a PS game but not buying Arrowhead that they already worked with since the 2010s? that should already tell you how much Sony is making poor decisions, they were not even putting faith in Helldivers 2, and i'm sure, just like Helldivers 2, The Last Of Us Multiplayer game could've been a success and the only thing Bungie made for the game was giving it no chance to succeed, the Hellldivers model of monetization is completely different than Destiny, i would be surprised if Bungie had any involvement in it at all, it just proves the point i'm trying to make, maybe it would've been better to buy someone in the likes of SE to own the IPs, bolster PS Plus and also bolster the first party lineup every year since the publisher is already familiar with development for the platform and the relationship between the two goes back to the 90s since the very first years of the PlayStation console, another one that could work well due to relationship is Capcom, they can be perfect for EVO, for VR, Tv Show adaptations and even for Live Services with Monster Hunter, that's also the fact with Final Fantasy 14, all of this is ready, all Sony would need is to organize and integrate these teams into PS Studios/SIE

 

[Papacheeks]

yeah, but this will take a lot of time, years, possibly even a decade to put in perspective, people were expecting something now, this gen, in my eyes SE would be perfect cause they already work as a PlayStation Studio in many aspects, they develop their biggest games only on the playstation hardware and then they port it to PC after a year or so, they have IPs that are iconic and have a big presence in Japan, so in the long term future, Sony will be armed with some of Japan's biggest IPs, we also have PS Plus, they need to get more content on the service if they want their Cloud/Subscription to compete with Netflix Games and GamePass in the future

What if I told you their plans for PS+ were different than gamepass? Their thinking is combining tv/film/games into one service with different tiers for different gamers?

Netflix is adding games to their service, and are investing big into AA/AAA titles. I think they know that if they want money combining the subs into one will more than likely work better than whats been happening. AKa Gamepass subs falling off a cliff. ANd people choosing 1 or 2 entertainment subs for their fix instead of having multiple subs.

Thats where this is heading. Crunchy Roll, Sony Pictures/TV/Paramount all rolled into one ala cart. Sony can still whore out IP's to Peacock/Netflix/Prime ect and make a shit load like they did with Spiderman/Bond ect. But also they can pick and choose what they put on their tiers for PS+ which soon will be on PC in some form.

It's the smart play. Adding access to old tv/shows movies or new to their tiers will make it a better value, and be able to grab people who may not play a lot of games.

 

[mibu no ookami]

the biggest risk is on buying the studios they're buying... what was the reason to buy Haven and Firewalk before any of them released a PS game but not buying Arrowhead that they already worked with since the 2010s? that should already tell you how much Sony is making poor decisions, they were not even putting faith in Helldivers 2, and i'm sure, just like Helldivers 2, The Last Of Us Multiplayer game could've been a success and the only thing Bungie made for the game was giving it no chance to succeed, the Hellldivers model of monetization is completely different than Destiny, i would be surprised if Bungie had any involvement in it at all, it just proves the point i'm trying to make, maybe it would've been better to buy someone in the likes of SE to own the IPs, bolster PS Plus and also bolster the first party lineup every year since the publisher is already familiar with development for the platform and the relationship between the two goes back to the 90s since the very first years of the PlayStation console, another one that could work well due to relationship is Capcom, they can be perfect for EVO, for VR, Tv Show adaptations and even for Live Services with Monster Hunter, that's also the fact with Final Fantasy 14, all of this is ready, all Sony would need is to organize and integrate these teams into PS Studios/SIE

Let's first start with the fact that you actively refuse to answer my question.

What does Bungie's M&A being successful look like to you? How would you define it?

As for why Haven and Firewalk were purchased, these were both start ups and probably cost absolutely nothing to purchase, not much different from creating an internal studio. Arrowhead Studio has been around since 2009 and they have to want to sell.

Your idea of "bad decisions" is I don't know the details, but something didn't work out like I think it should have.

You have no idea what TLOU Online looked or played like or how it was monetized. You have no idea what involvement if any Bungie had with Helldivers, but you're convinced in both situations that it was a negative, because you're an extremely biased individual. Which is again why you refuse to paint a picture of what a successful M&A looks like with Bungie. Why you're privately fearful that the Final Shape sells boatloads and that Marathon is a massive success.

Something you should try to become more aware of is that not all companies want to sell. Somehow you think FF14 is worth investment but Destiny wasn't? You can't contain your bias at all can you? I can tell you that Destiny makes WAY more money annually than FF14 and it isn't even close. That it makes WAY more money than EVO.

 

[Etifilio]

Let's first start with the fact that you actively refuse to answer my question.

What does Bungie's M&A being successful look like to you? How would you define it?

As for why Haven and Firewalk were purchased, these were both start ups and probably cost absolutely nothing to purchase, not much different from creating an internal studio. Arrowhead Studio has been around since 2009 and they have to want to sell.

Your idea of "bad decisions" is I don't know the details, but something didn't work out like I think it should have.

You have no idea what TLOU Online looked or played like or how it was monetized. You have no idea what involvement if any Bungie had with Helldivers, but you're convinced in both situations that it was a negative, because you're an extremely biased individual. Which is again why you refuse to paint a picture of what a successful M&A looks like with Bungie. Why you're privately fearful that the Final Shape sells boatloads and that Marathon is a massive success.

Something you should try to become more aware of is that not all companies want to sell. Somehow you think FF14 is worth investment but Destiny wasn't? You can't contain your bias at all can you? I can tell you that Destiny makes WAY more money annually than FF14 and it isn't even close. That it makes WAY more money than EVO.

to me, a successful Bungie M&A would be defined by constand growth YoY, not only for Bungie but for internal Sony's studios that are developing live services titles and an organized subsidiary to SIE with self control and right decision makings, but contrary to that, the only thing we're seeing is Bungie failing to meet internal targets, having no clear path and at risk of being completely absorved by sony themselfs to control and organize, giving more work for SIE instead of less, they acquired Bungie to help with their internal studios, now they'll end up having to help Bungie keep it together internally

 

[ethomaz]

So why is PlayStation carrying the company on its back?

Not sure what you meant with carrying because the others divisions generate a lot of revenue… for example FY22.

Gaming account for around 30% of Sony revenue but only 20% of operational incoming.

PlayStatiom is not carrying Sony… and n fact others division have similar profit with way less sales (revenue).

Music for example generate more profit with less than half of revenue.
Imaging, Financials and Entertainment are doing better than PlayStation too.

You guys have some claims that goes against what Sony shows in financials.

 

[mibu no ookami]

to me, a successful Bungie M&A would be defined by constand growth YoY, not only for Bungie but for internal Sony's studios that are developing live services titles and an organized subsidiary to SIE with self control and right decision makings, but contrary to that, the only thing we're seeing is Bungie failing to meet internal targets, having no clear path and at risk of being completely absorved by sony themselfs to control and organize, giving more work for SIE instead of less, they acquired Bungie to help with their internal studios, now they'll end up having to help Bungie keep it together internally

How many GaaS games has Sony released since purchasing Bungie? It seems like you're very interested in calling them a failure because they had one underperforming expansion, while also ignoring all the hype around Final Shape.

No clear path is funny because you're basing everything on your own bias and literally extrapolation from one comment made in Japanese and translated into English.

It wouldn't be the end of the world if Sony takes over Bungie either. That's not what defines success or failure here. Nor does that negate their expertise in GaaS.

You're going to look VERY foolish in just about a month... I wonder how much you'll back pedal...

 

[Jim Ryan]

 

[Petekilla]

Know what you could do with 26b?

Capcom
Square
Fromsoftware
Larian
CD Projekt
Remedy

.

 

[Petekilla]

Sony won’t even get major ip like Transformer & GIJoe after acquiring paramount they will need to buy Hasbro to own the franchise & get games mixed w cross media synergies.

Sony will only get TMNT & SpongeBob other like Sonic, Transformer Paramount don’t even own or control.

Sony is better buying WB who’s also rumored to be selling soon. Buying WB will actually get you major ip WB owns plus a better subscription that’s making profit. Paramount+ is like the bottom of the barrel streaming service. Owning the Halo streaming rights also is worthless that tv show has been destroyed in gaming & now cross media

WB is 43B in debt. If Sony acquired WB, they would have to take that and Sony is not in the position to do that.

 

[Danja]

• I won't be surprised if Sony attempts to acquire T2 in the next couple of years
• Sony hasn't been carried by PlayStation, in fact in the dark days of PlayStation (PS3) it was the other divisions that carried PlayStation
• Licensing IP for games is tricky, it takes the right timing and the right partner, and the right IP
  • Sony was not a major software developer in the PS1 and PS2 days, this only happened more towards the middle to end of the PS3 days, and became something larger in the PS4 days
  • Men in Black 3 came out in 2012
  • They tried to bring Men in Black back but without Will Smith because they wanted to reboot the franchise in a more cost effective manner, it failed
    • Bad Boys for Life on the other hand was a smash hit and wasn't a much better movie. Independence day also was unsuccessful without Will Smith
    • You take the risk with rebooting a franchise, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't look at Jurassic World

If Sony is able to reboot Mission Impossible without Tom Cruise, they'll definitely make MI games internally at SIE. TMNT, Avatar (ATLA), and Spongebob, all make a lot of sense. Licensing out Top Gun to Namco Bandai makes a lot of sense too.

There is an off chance that PlayStation vs Nickelodeon could be a success. I think having two different target audiences might make it difficult though. Kratos vs Spongebob probably won't work.

All PS3 did was wipe out all the profits they made with the PS2... The PS3 was making a killing on Software which softened the blow for the hardware losses. They also saw their TV, Phone and Laptop business crumbled.. it wasn't all on the PS3

 

[Danja]

Not sure what you meant with carrying because the others divisions generate a lot of revenue… for example FY22.

Gaming account for around 30% of Sony revenue but only 20% of operational incoming.

PlayStatiom is not carrying Sony… and n fact others division have similar profit with way less sales (revenue).

Music for example generate more profit with less than half of revenue.
Imaging, Financials and Entertainment are doing better than PlayStation too.

You guys have some claims that goes against what Sony shows in financials.

That's one year....

 

[anonpuffs]

I just don't understand Sony leadership. The moment they start not having exclusivity on stuff like final fantasy is the moment I bail back to being pc-only. Fuck these out-of-touch boomers.

 

[Neversummer]

WB is 43B in debt. If Sony acquired WB, they would have to take that and Sony is not in the position to do that.

Sony not acquiring WB because they have 43 billion in debt would be silly. Sure they have 43 billion in debt but WB has some of the most prestige’s ip in media that hasn’t been fully tapped in. DC films & games hasn’t been fully taped in & when there good they make bank The Batman made over 500 million Batman Arkham games sells 10-15+ million they could sell more under PS & especially if they had good quality Batman films & tv shows to rejuvenate the franchise. Monster Verse films/games, Hogwarts films/games, Hanna Barbara which include the likes of Scooby Doo, Tom & Jerry & Looney Tunes films/games, Games of Thrones films/games all of these are easily billion dollar franchise that if produced good can bring 500M to 1 billion $ in revenue & can push both Sony & PS into multiple markets. WB hold some very valuable ip beloved ip that can give Sony the ability to make there own park w ip from DC, Looney Tunes, Hogwarts alone now combine it with PS ip & other Sony ip like breaking bad, the boys & anime ip from the anime side like demon slayer & now you have a Sony that holds a very strong position in media, games & toys/parks. Imagine a Sony park with DC, Hogwarts, Looney Tunes, Ben10, Monster Verse, GOW, Horizon, GOT, Demon Slayer & if they acquired a gaming publisher like Capcom or Square Enix Sony would hold a lot of beloved ip that could make for a good park this is where Sony has to expand not porting or thinking of doing day n date PC port. Nintendo is in the works of making there own Nintendo park to expand to new consumer. All of WB debt can be paid of under 10 years of Sony had great leadership & direction & produce quality products something WB hasn’t been doing good outside the one off.

I don’t think Sony can do the same with Paramount, Paramount might not be bad but & could make sense if Sony acquires Hasbro to fully own the transformer, gijoe & monopoly franchise fully & gain expertise to produce good toys using those ip combine w Sony ip from PS & Anime.

 

[Etifilio]

Sony not acquiring WB because they have 43 billion in debt would be silly. Sure they have 43 billion in debt but WB has some of the most prestige’s ip in media that hasn’t been fully tapped in. DC films & games hasn’t been fully taped in & when there good they make bank The Batman made over 500 million Batman Arkham games sells 10-15+ million they could sell more under PS & especially if they had good quality Batman films & tv shows to rejuvenate the franchise. Monster Verse films/games, Hogwarts films/games, Hanna Barbara which include the likes of Scooby Doo, Tom & Jerry & Looney Tunes films/games, Games of Thrones films/games all of these are easily billion dollar franchise that if produced good can bring 500M to 1 billion $ in revenue & can push both Sony & PS into multiple markets. WB hold some very valuable ip beloved ip that can give Sony the ability to make there own park w ip from DC, Looney Tunes, Hogwarts alone now combine it with PS ip & other Sony ip like breaking bad & the boys & you have Sony that holds a very strong position in media, games & toys/parks. All of WB debt can be paid of under 10 years of Sony had great leadership & direction & produce quality products something WB hasn’t been doing good outside the one off. I don’t think Sony can do the same with Paramount, Paramount might not be bad but & could make sense if Sony acquires Hasbro to fully own the transformer, gijoe & monopoly franchise fully & gain expertise to produce good toys using those ip combine w Sony ip from PS & Anime.

WB + Sony would be a perfect acquisition for all main divisions of Sony, Sony Pictures, Sony Music, Sony Interactive Entertainment, that would actually benefit PlayStation A LOT with multiple iconic videogame franchises, Sony would literally not need to rely on Disney licenses to have superhero games, Sony would own some of the best studios in the industry, would own 2023's best selling game, Hogwarts Legacy, would own their own fighting game with Mortal Kombat, would be a perfect combination with EVO

 

[Etifilio]

what's sad about Sony getting Paramount, is that WBD will probably go to Microsoft, they're looking to acquire a movie/tv company to get into the entertainment business/subscription services and they don't have nothing in this area so it'll probably go through... MS will destroy WB Games even more