Sony Pictures reportedly in talks to buy Paramount. |UP|Sony Makes $26 Billion All-Cash Offer for Paramount.

Zzero

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Not sure why people think they own Spongebob as well when its a Nikelodean IP
Paramount actually owns Nickelodeon. The current Paramount is just Viacom under a different name. Or should I say Viacom under its original name.

Edit: Or was Viacom originally CBS and then purchased Paramount? Ahh well, doesn't really matter.
 
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ethomaz

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Not sure why people think they own Spongebob as well when its a Nikelodean IP
I think that can help more…


All these brands are owned by Paramout… Nikelodean is just one of them.
 

Box

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I think that can help more…


All these brands are owned by Paramout… Nikelodean is just one of them.

Can't wait for a Spongebob GAAS game
 
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Neversummer

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Not sure why people think they own Spongebob as well when its a Nikelodean IP
People getting confused w owning publishing movie rights to owning franchise or ip rights.

Anyways Paramount doesn’t even own the Transformer ip only the movie so no game + cross media synergies. And that was the only ip that I could see be a major potential w films & games. There’s really not much acquiring Paramount unless it’s dirt cheap your better off saving 10 billion or seeking others like WB that has looked shaky in the past & could potentially sell later of atleast w the rumors of WB selling off to Comcast, WB been worth around 20 billion if Sony wanted Fox that would’ve given them Marvel & Starwars WB would be the best next thing atleast for movies, films & games w mature & kid/teen catering ips.

Doesn’t Paramount own Nickelodeon
 

Yurinka

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That isn't how investing works. You much prefer 300 million on 3B because that means that you have 27B left that you can invest in other things. Big, bloated and barely breaking even is investment kryptonite.
No, it's the opposite.

For many different reasons the revenue is one of the most important metrics when valuating a company. If you have two companies that generate 300M in profits, but one makes 3B in revenue aand the otherr makes 30B in revenue, obviously the 30B one is going to have a way bigger valuation. That's assuming the other things are the same (IPs, cash & equivalents, debt, etc).

The reason is that the 30B company is reinvesting 30B per year, while the other is only reinvesting 3B. So in the future the 30B will generate more revenue than the 3B one. And in the 30B is also easier to increase the profits if desired just reinvesting less, or reducing/optimizing some costs, while the 3B has less margin to do so.

Not sure why people think they own Spongebob as well when its a Nikelodean IP
Paramount owns Nicklelodeon, who also owns Spongebob. So Paramount owns Spongebob.

People getting confused w owning publishing movie rights to owning franchise or ip rights.
Yes, having the distribution rights means that company decides where and how is distributed and they get that money made there. But the IP owner can be someone else, like Hasbro in case of Transformers.

If Sony would get the rights of let's say the Transformers movies then they'd decide if put the movies in this or that streaming platform, or if new sequels are played on this or that cinema, or played in this or that tv channel, or if edited in disc or not etc. Depending on the case sometimes there's some company who gets the rights for a specific thing, like only cinema or only tv or only streaming etc. Or get some of them for some specific country or region. In this case, if Netflix would want to get the exclusive streaming -or simply to have it- they'd have to talk with Sony, who would accept or not, or ask more or less money for it.

In most of these cases, Paramount also produces (or coproduces) the movies, so decide how they are. In case of being owned by Sony, the could decide to put there certain singer they want to promote, make product placement of Sony products like a PlayStation, to put some story or designs that could align with some game they plan to make or something like that.

In case of South Park is different, since Paramount subsidiaries also have the rights for the video games.
 
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Petekilla

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yes, just look how many films bombs. very few takes almost all revenue. industry doesn't make a lot of good movies which people want to watch. it is either copy paste films, sequels or woke fluff filled films.
That’s because Hollywood is making mid movies. When films are great they still make great money. As proven by Top Gun, Mario, Barbie, and Oppenheimer.
 

RE4-Station

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You guys are trying to compare apples to oranges with the gaming market and movie market. Spider Man No way Home made almost 2 billion in the box office in 6 or so months it was in theaters and SpiderMan 2 on PS5 costed more to make then it and we dont know of it will hit 2 Billion in revenue in the next decade. Also why do people want Sony to so badly buy more gaming studios. Microsoft buying Activision was the best thing to happen to PlayStation in years. Activision could of gone bankrupt in the next couple of years but now PlayStation has Call of Duty on PS5 for the next decade and the cost of Microsoft purchasing Activison made them realize we need to start putting out games on other platforms besides PC. Sony making a hige purchase right now would be poking the beehive and giving Microsoft more reason to start buying more studios or worse, get other huge companies looking at giant publishers like meta, Apple or Amazon. I would love if Sony was able to aquire a long time partner like Square and Take Two like how Nintendo finally aquired Next Level games after working for them for about 2 decades I believe but man some of you just cant grasp the idea of other Sony sister companies needing to make investments as well. I don't know if buying Paramount will go well for them but some of you need to stop thinking about this as PlayStation related
 

anonpuffs

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You guys are trying to compare apples to oranges with the gaming market and movie market. Spider Man No way Home made almost 2 billion in the box office in 6 or so months it was in theaters and SpiderMan 2 on PS5 costed more to make then it and we dont know of it will hit 2 Billion in revenue in the next decade. Also why do people want Sony to so badly buy more gaming studios. Microsoft buying Activision was the best thing to happen to PlayStation in years. Activision could of gone bankrupt in the next couple of years but now PlayStation has Call of Duty on PS5 for the next decade and the cost of Microsoft purchasing Activison made them realize we need to start putting out games on other platforms besides PC. Sony making a hige purchase right now would be poking the beehive and giving Microsoft more reason to start buying more studios or worse, get other huge companies looking at giant publishers like meta, Apple or Amazon. I would love if Sony was able to aquire a long time partner like Square and Take Two like how Nintendo finally aquired Next Level games after working for them for about 2 decades I believe but man some of you just cant grasp the idea of other Sony sister companies needing to make investments as well. I don't know if buying Paramount will go well for them but some of you need to stop thinking about this as PlayStation related
I don't really want PS to buy a big publisher but imo the 1st party studio output has a lack of variety and it could do with some shoring up. They are missing the japanese/asian content that I like Playstation for. IMO playstation studios could do with some new ideas and fresh blood. For example all of my favorite PS exclusives this gen have come from outside partnerships. Demons Souls Remake, Returnal, FF7R, Helldivers 2 - all non-PS-owned studios. I'm glad that Sony decided to buy Housemarque and Bluepoint, but I need more of that, and preferably on the asian/jRPG side because those are my favorite types of games.
 

RE4-Station

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I don't really want PS to buy a big publisher but imo the 1st party studio output has a lack of variety and it could do with some shoring up. They are missing the japanese/asian content that I like Playstation for. IMO playstation studios could do with some new ideas and fresh blood. For example all of my favorite PS exclusives this gen have come from outside partnerships. Demons Souls Remake, Returnal, FF7R, Helldivers 2 - all non-PS-owned studios. I'm glad that Sony decided to buy Housemarque and Bluepoint, but I need more of that, and preferably on the asian/jRPG side because those are my favorite types of games.
Well i see that but I dont think it makes a huge difference that something like Final Fantasy VII Remake/Rebirth is not first party unless you must be able to brag that other consoles don't have it. I don't think anyone was dissapointed in Sony that Final Fantasy VII was not made by them in the PS1 days despite it being the biggest PS1 game besides Nintendo fans. I would love if Legend of Dragoon could comeback but I don't think the answer to it is buying a publisher or studio to make it and if it fails shut them down and become the next EA in gaming
 

mibu no ookami

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So they double down by buying Paramount a studio that is completely sunk? Good luck, that makes no sense.

If Sony Pictures have made bad choices that put them in a bad position buying Paramount will only make things worse.

What is sunk about them, be specific.
 

ethomaz

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Btw, my number of profit was wrong: Paramount has a revenue of $30B/yeaar and a gross profit of $10/year.
That is correct.
But remember this is gross profit.

Gross profit is basically the profit from your products… it is the revenue minus what cost you to produce that product (in a service case how cost you to make that service / digital product available).

Operational incoming is Gross Profit minus all the expenses a company has to run their daily business… here enter marketing, HR, administrative, etc costs… all cost the company has to make it business run.

Both are important.

But when you have like $10b gross profit (your products give you that) and $500m or even loses in operational incoming maybe your are having too many costs to run your daily business.

That is the challenging most companies faces today. Decrease costs to run your daily business to increase profit.

Most of time they take the easy way… mass layoffs.
 
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Nhomnhom

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Absolutely agree. They only have run because of surprisingly good Sonic movies. If Sony wants a good movie maker, they should go for the talented studio which made Mario Bros movie.
Sony already have problems of their own producing terrible flops like Madame Web and Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire.

The entire business of big Hollywood studios is busted and going nowhere.
 
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Yurinka

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That is correct.
But remember this is gross profit.

Gross profit is basically the profit from your products… it is the revenue minus what cost you to produce that product (in a service case how cost you to make that service / digital product available).

Operational incoming is Gross Profit minus all the expenses a company has to run their daily business… here enter marketing, HR, administrative, etc costs… all cost the company has to make it business run.

Both are important.

But when you have like $10b gross profit (your products give you that) and $500m or even loses in operational incoming maybe your are having too many costs to run your daily business.

That is the challenging most companies faces today. Decrease costs to run your daily business to increase profit.

Most of time they take the easy way… mass layoffs.

I just double checked my numbers and found my mistake (source):

Revenue (huge, $30B/year but seems stagnant, so some push to grow with a merge or acquisition that would help to expand to new markets help):

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Gross profit ($10B/year, great):

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Operating income (operating profit/loss, it was fine with around $5B/year or so but since 4-5 years ago something went wrong here with their operational costs, must cut fat here highly reducing and optimizing costs):

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Net income (net profit/loss, same as before, was $3-5B/year until went wrong 4-5 years ago):

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I think it would help them a lot being acquired by someone who:
  • Can help help reach new markets to boost their revenue
  • Can provide interesting IPs to boost their revenue
  • Can do part or all the job from several divisions and subsidiaries they have here (physical production, distribution, IP licensing, marketing, PR, CS, HR, tech and IT, legal...), which would be cut in the Paramount side (moving the best related Paramount staff to the related Sony divisions) to avoid redundancies
On top of that, I think they also should highly restructure Paramount to highly simplify their structure splitting it into a few Sony Pictures and Sony Music subsidiaries to avoid the costs of things that Sony can already provide them, keeping only:
  • Paramount Sony Pictures: include everything related to production of real action movies and tv series here eliminating redundancies after turning it a Sony Pictures subsidiary. Regarding distribution, post production, licensing, IT, tech, physical, etc. key staff would be merged into the related Sony Picture divisions and ost of the rest would be fired
  • Paramount Sony Animation: include here merged, eliminating redundancies, all their cinema and tv series animated stuff to turn it a Sony Pictures Animation (where Sony should move all their animation stuff too) subsidiary
  • Paramount Sony TV: would restructure merging them as a single Sony Pictures subsidiary -eliminating redundancies, many people wouldn't be needed being a single group and being a Sony Pictures subsidiary- everything from their divisions related to managing tv channels and tv shows that aren't series: CBS Entertainment Group (USA tv channels), Paramount Media Networks (paid channels), Paramount International Networks (non-USA versions of some of their tv channels). If some channel produce particularly big loses or has too low viewship or ratings I'd sell or shut them down
  • Paramount Sony Music: restructure it as a Sony Music subsidiary removing redundancies from not needed stuff from having it at Sony
  • Paramount Sony Streaming: they should include here all their stuff related to streaming services removing redundancies with the idea of later to merge all these services with all the Sony equivalent ones into a single Sony service to buy - or to rent individully or via sub- worldwide all their catalog of movies, animation (including anime), tv shows, documentaries, tv channels and music. The sub would have different tiers, like to get only the animation, or only the movies, or only the music, or only the channels, or a bundle with everything
  • Paramount Consumer Products and Experiences: this would disappear moving all merchandising and IP licensing to whoever handles it at Sony
  • Sony Experiences: new Sony division that would manage theme parks stuff (including the one from Paramouunt), Sony stores (which would be highly revamped), presential + digital conventions (they'd make a yearly Sony Experience that would also include the PlayStation Experience which would have eSports tournaments and conferences + announcements + meet and greet from Sony Music and Sony Pictures people), all Sony merchandising and IP management from all divisions, and a new global incubation program (like PlayStation Hero Project) for music, cinema, animation and games for many regions across the world, sometimes partnering with existing incubation programs. In the future Sony would buy Bandai Namco, Hasbro and Lego to put their -non-videogame toy/figurines/modelkits/tabletop divisions here
I assume this would take time to implement but would cut minimum half of their operating costs.

With Sony Pictures and Sony Music I'd give them access to many new markets where they already are present plus let them use whatever superior technology they have, and I'd let them use any Sony IP or Sony Music artist that would help them. Which combined with additional synergies of shared tech, market data and stuff would help them highly increase their revenue.
 
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anonpuffs

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I just double checked my numbers and found my mistake (source):

Revenue (huge, $30B/year but seems stagnant, so some push to grow with a merge or acquisition that would help to expand to new markets help):

image.png

image.png



Gross profit ($10B/year, great):

image.png

image.png


Operating income (operating profit/loss, it was fine with around $5B/year or so but since 4-5 years ago something went wrong here with their operational costs, must cut fat here highly reducing and optimizing costs):

image.png

image.png


Net income (net profit/loss, same as before, was $3-5B/year until went wrong 4-5 years ago):

image.png

image.png
Almost as if the pandemic cratered traditional cinema and paramount has been struggling since
 

Yurinka

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Almost as if the pandemic cratered traditional cinema and paramount has been struggling since
Not the case at all, they continue generating $30B of revenue and $10B of gross profit per year as they did way before the pandemic.

Their decrease in their operating & net profit started in 2019, before the pandemic. Their operating profits got reduced in half then, even more the next year to the point of killing them. But their gross profit continued being $10B per year. Meaning, something happened in 2019 that highly increased their operative costs without affecting their revenue or gross profits.

Maybe something like buying a company with a fuckton of workers or costs that still has not produced anything. Or have been investing since then in something new that is very expensive but it isn't producing them money.

Edit: in 2019 CBS Corporation and Viacom merged as ViacomCBS (later renamed to Paramount Global, the corporation being sold). Very likely something related to that merge highly incraesed their operating costs killing their operating and net profits. Maybe several new executives are highly overpaid, stealing money for coke and hookers and way more, or something like that.
 
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