Sony Pictures reportedly in talks to buy Paramount. |UP|Sony Makes $26 Billion All-Cash Offer for Paramount.

Danja

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If it was always bound to happen, then why is a decline a failure in leadership?
I said a year after Mass Availability, there shouldn't be declines but more consistency. PS5 was not readily available till last year... The aim should be to maintain. Instead Sales fell off by last summer. But I'm sure you'll come back with more excuses about this.
 
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ethomaz

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not for gaming, won't serve us for nothing, unless you want to play Spongebob games on your PlayStation
But that is not a gaming move.
Sony Pictures exists lol

I don’t even know why you guys are relating this to PlayStation.

Sony is not PlayStation only… they have other 4 divisions…. these divisions have it own business and market.
 
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mibu no ookami

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why is it that other divisions at Sony get money to make multi billion dollar acquisitions, but their biggest division, PlayStation, has to rely on smaller acquisitions? with 10B dollars they can buy Square Enix, Kadokawa (FromSoftware) and KoeiTecmo combined, this is ridiculous, SONY NEEDS MORE STUDIOS AND IPS, 2023 we only had one AAA game (Spiderman 2) and 2024 we have nothing from first party

Consolidation in gaming is significantly riskier than consolidation in the movie business.

Paramount has been in business for over 100 years.

Right now Sony Pictures needs more size and can't really directly compete with Disney, Amazon, Apple, Warner Discovery, and Netflix. Missing out on the Fox purchase really hurt them not to mention losing MGM and really the only reason they're still in business is because they bought the movie rights to Spider-Man.

They'll want to buy Paramount and trim down the duplicate functions that they already have to save money and better address the debt that Paramount has. It's a pretty solid business plan. You put out the next Top Gun basically as Sony Pictures and that's a significant boon. If you can manage a couple of these movies performing anywhere close to the 2nd movie which would be difficult, and it could put you in a really good position.

If Sony can bring Star Trek back to the forefront, that's also a major boon. If they can manage to bring back Chris Hemsworth for Star Trek 4, it could help the franchise out. They could also do a reboot movie of TNG with James McAvoy once again doubling as a young Patrick stewart. A popular Star Trek live service game could also make Sony significant monies.

Buying Square Enix isn't a good buy. The company is floundering and their most popular IP wane in popularity. Taking their games off of Switch would have a major impact on their profitability. Kadokawa is a bubble and could burst. Paramount has to replace Tom Cruise, but Sony could probably make Tom Holland the new Tom Cruise. Hidetaka Miyazaki on the other hand could leave at anytime. Koei Tecmo isn't worth anything.

The only Japanese companies really worth buying would be Capcom or Sega.

Buying Paramount helps ALL of Sony. Buying a game publisher helps mostly just SIE with few exceptions. If Sony owned Paramount the likelihood of them trying to buy Sega would go up substantially.
 

ethomaz

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Gta V alone made more money than the Titanic and Avatar combined.

Gaming is a lot more profitable
GTA V made 5x more money than the second bigger seller…
It is an a exception in game market… no other game can do it.
 

ethomaz

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Lie?

ticketssold.jpg


You clearly have no idea what you are talking about so next, time instead of accusing other of lying and laughing like a complete moron you look things up before hand.

Unless you actually thought that I was saying literally no one was going to the theaters in that case you need urgent help.


All PlayStation studios that take an entire gen to announce a new game will now have even more IPs to ignore.
Are you using pandemic time to make a case people are not going to theaters???

Because that is what that graphic shows.
The first year without lockdown box office did $9 billion in US…

The last part of your graph is not actual data… it was the forecast that was already beaten (more revenue than what they predicted) in Q1 that reached over $1.6b.

2023 just not beat 2019 because it had not a huge multi million franchise like Avengers Emdgame… when the industry start to put these big hits they will start near the results they had before pandemonium.
 
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Nhomnhom

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Consolidation in gaming is significantly riskier than consolidation in the movie business.

Paramount has been in business for over 100 years.

Right now Sony Pictures needs more size and can't really directly compete with Disney, Amazon, Apple, Warner Discovery, and Netflix. Missing out on the Fox purchase really hurt them not to mention losing MGM and really the only reason they're still in business is because they bought the movie rights to Spider-Man.

They'll want to buy Paramount and trim down the duplicate functions that they already have to save money and better address the debt that Paramount has. It's a pretty solid business plan. You put out the next Top Gun basically as Sony Pictures and that's a significant boon. If you can manage a couple of these movies performing anywhere close to the 2nd movie which would be difficult, and it could put you in a really good position.

If Sony can bring Star Trek back to the forefront, that's also a major boon. If they can manage to bring back Chris Hemsworth for Star Trek 4, it could help the franchise out. They could also do a reboot movie of TNG with James McAvoy once again doubling as a young Patrick stewart. A popular Star Trek live service game could also make Sony significant monies.

Buying Square Enix isn't a good buy. The company is floundering and their most popular IP wane in popularity. Taking their games off of Switch would have a major impact on their profitability. Kadokawa is a bubble and could burst. Paramount has to replace Tom Cruise, but Sony could probably make Tom Holland the new Tom Cruise. Hidetaka Miyazaki on the other hand could leave at anytime. Koei Tecmo isn't worth anything.

The only Japanese companies really worth buying would be Capcom or Sega.

Buying Paramount helps ALL of Sony. Buying a game publisher helps mostly just SIE with few exceptions. If Sony owned Paramount the likelihood of them trying to buy Sega would go up substantially.
So to stay in business they need to buy Paramount a busted studio that is collapsing in a market that is going down impressively fast? Complete idiocy, specially now that it easy to see that consolidation didn't actually work out for Disney, Amazon or Warner at all.

Big movie studios clearly aren't the way to go.
 

Dabaus

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Potential $9 billion dollar acquisition for Sony pictures but PS gets like $4 billion for a dysfunctional studio like bungie. If this goes through the whole "Acquisitions costs will relieve next fiscal year" will go out the window.
Pretty sure paramount is dysfunctional too. Idk how it would all work out but if Sony dropped the paramount plus money sink and piece sold content to the highest bidder like they do currently I could see this working out for them. Depends how much they pay though. Id say anything over 7 billion and its not worth it.
 
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mibu no ookami

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So to stay in business they need to buy Paramount a busted studio that is collapsing in a market that is going down impressively fast? Complete idiocy, specially now that it easy to see that consolidation didn't actually work out for Disney, Amazon or Warner at all.

Big movie studios clearly aren't the way to go.

Sony Pictures won't survive Spider-Man fatigue and Sony Pictures is a massively important division to Sony Group.

And yes consolidation has worked out extremely well for Sony. Your takes continue to be terrible.

image.png


Like many entertainment companies they're reeling post pandemic, but the idea that they haven't experienced massive growth as a result of consolidation is asinine and there's no telling where they'd be had they not consolidated.

Note that Disney bought LucasFilm in 2012 and they bought Marvel in 2009.

Evidence of that is Warner pre merger with Discovery and Paramount today.
 

Loy310

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They would snatch up a lot of popular trademarks and ips that would be great video games in the future if they get paramount, so i aint mad at this.
 

Yurinka

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Regarding the comparisions with Square, Paramount has a yearly revenue of $30B and Square Enix has a yearly revenue of $2.5B, they are in different leagues.

The only Japanese companies really worth buying would be Capcom or Sega.
Square Enix has great revenue and profit, both in a growth trend, like Capcom or the biggest, top grossing Japanese 3rd party publisher: Bandai Namco. To get any of all 3 of them would be a good business, but that successful financial success they are having in recent years is one of the reasons of why they wouldn't want to sell.

Even if as gamers we see a lot of cool IPs in Sega, Sega's revenue and profit is way smaller, inconsistent and aren't in a clear growth pattern. And well, like some of these other companies, Sega has several non-gaming business that Sony may not want.

why is it that other divisions at Sony get money to make multi billion dollar acquisitions, but their biggest division, PlayStation, has to rely on smaller acquisitions?
Sony didn't buy Paramount. They are in talks to maybe make a bid in a joint venture with an investor. In most cases this ends in nothing, specially when Paramount is also in talks with other possible acquirers.

In gaming, Sony also must be in talks with many companies who could be potentially acquired in the future, evaluating their value and potential, check if they would want to sell or not, check if they are also in talks with other potential acquirers, etc.

To make acquisitions, specially big ones, takes time. They also have to make market analysis of how it could affect both companies, design an integration plan, make a market research and business plan of how they'd be integrated and how they would align their plans, etc.

In addition to this, to acquire companies isn't like to buy vegetables in a shop. The other part has to want to sell. And in the case of SIE/PlayStation, being a market leader / key player of their market it has to be approved by regulators.

Regarding why would Paramount would be more appealing to be bought than companies like Square or Capcom, it's becase even having a similar market valuation, maybe cost (it would be a joint venture, Sony wouldn't pay the whole price) and profitability, Paramount produces way more revenue:

Market cap (this is only the value of stocks in the market, the value of the company would be bigger and the acquisition cost even bigger, but in case of Paramount would be split between Sony and an investor)
  • Paramount Global: $8.4B
  • Capcom: $8,6B
  • Square Enix: $4.4B
Yearly revenue
  • Paramount Global $30B (in growing trend, tiny post covid drop)
  • Square Enix: $2.43B (in growing trend, tiny post covid drop)
  • Capcom: $1.07B (in growing trend, tiny post covid drop)
Yearly profit
  • Paramount Global: $9.64B (had a small loss post-covid drop)
  • Capcom: $0.3B (in growing trend)
  • Square Enix: $0.3B (in growing trend)

And more important than this, Paramount has a huge market share, as big as Sony, and acquiring it combining them would mean a big market shift putting them as market leaders, or at least in a way better position.

image.png

video-production-market-trends-by-region.png

Percentage-of-box-office-income-coming-from-the-international-market-for-movies-from-the-big-six-Hollywood-studios.png

While companies like Square Enix or Capcom have a tiny market share. Assuming the gaming market has $184B, their market share would be:
  • SIE: 14.62%
  • Square Enix: 1.32%
  • Capcom: 0.58%
It wouldn't be a huge market shift.

with 10B dollars they can buy Square Enix, Kadokawa (FromSoftware) and KoeiTecmo combined
No, it would cost way more than $10B. These companies combined would have a valuation higher than $10B, and recent big gaming acquisitions have been paid on a premium of 40-60% (meaning paying that percent more above the company valuation).

this is ridiculous, SONY NEEDS MORE STUDIOS AND IPS, 2023 we only had one AAA game (Spiderman 2) and 2024 we have nothing from first party
Not true, Sony has like a dozen first party announced for 2024 and released more stuff than Spider-Man in 2023.

SIE has a record number of games under development and is still paying costs of many acquisitions they did in recent years. They temporally paused acquisitions (not only in SIE), because to improve their profitability they'll want to see some of the projects they have in the work being released and to complete paying the costs from previous acquisitions before putting on top more costs from newer acquisitions.

In addition to this, what SIE has to do is to figure out a way to compensate the profitability they are losing with hardware component costs getting more expensive over time, while in all previous generations their cost decreased over time.

They have over 30 first party games under development, and have a ton of dormant IPs that can't work on them because all their teams are busy. They don't lack teams, and -even less- don't lack IPs.
 
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Box

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shut your mouth up, you bubble dweller. all the facts don't matter.

Bubble Dweller? Do you think this is a Seinfeld episode?

GTA V made 5x more money than the second bigger seller…
It is an a exception in game market… no other game can do it.

Mario Kart 8 also made more than Titanic and Avatar combined

Pokemon is the largest media franchise in history

Genshin Impact makes billions of dollars a year, so does COD,FIFA and Fortnite.

No movie comes close to this
 
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ethomaz

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Mario Kart 8 also made more than Titanic and Avatar combined

Pokemon is the largest media franchise in history

Genshin Impact makes billions of dollars a year, so does COD,FIFA and Fortnite.

No movie comes close to this
Not sure where are you getting that...

Titanic
Budget: $200m
Sales: $2.26b

You compare with Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (if you are talking about Deluxe because Mario Kart 8 sold 8 million units only).
A game that sold like 60 million copies.
I have a hard time believing a game with 60 million copies can reach $2b sales... at best case scenario you have something close to $2b like 1.8b or so.

CoD? Nope... no CoD even crossed $2b.
FIFA? Nope... no FIFA ever crossed $2b.

Genshin Impact and Fortnite are GaaaS games that you have update every week with big expansions regularity... it is like new games being released each new period... you have costs way over a single game development because the costs are constant.
It should be like Titanic after the original having a new episode in theaters each 3 months.... imagine how much sales that can generate?

Anyway you guys comparing different industry sales revenue plus using the exception of exception (GTA) is really weird.

Sony needs to diversity... that is true to any business... and invest in their other key pillars.
Sony is not PlayStation only... it is just division of Sony.
You need to grow all of them...
 
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Yurinka

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GTA V made 5x more money than the second bigger seller…
It is an a exception in game market… no other game can do it.
Mario Kart 8 also made more than Titanic and Avatar combined

Pokemon is the largest media franchise in history

Genshin Impact makes billions of dollars a year, so does COD,FIFA and Fortnite.

No movie comes close to this
Yearly revenue:
  • Paramount Global: $29.65B
  • Nintendo: $15.08B
  • Take 2: $5.39B
  • MiHoyo: $3.84B
Paramount doesn't only have one or a handful very rare super seller exceptions, they have a super huge catalog (it's 100 years old) of top seller and highly rated movies, distribution rights and IPs.

Plus have many more revenue sources other than movies like tv channels, streaming platforms, etc.

CoD? Nope... no CoD even crossed $2b.
There are several games that made over $2B, being CoD one of them:
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/-i-call-of-duty-i-made-3-billion-for-activision-in-12-months

Regarding Sony, their top grossing game it's this one:
https://gameworldobserver.com/2023/...counting-for-over-80-of-total-player-spending

Being more specific about SIE, their top grossing game must be Destiny 2, which must be over $2B too counting since release.

Yes, the successful AAA make way more money than successful non-GaaS due to the recurring payments you mention. This is the reason of why all big publishers are pushing GaaS.
 
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Nhomnhom

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Sony Pictures won't survive Spider-Man fatigue and Sony Pictures is a massively important division to Sony Group.

And yes consolidation has worked out extremely well for Sony. Your takes continue to be terrible.

image.png


Like many entertainment companies they're reeling post pandemic, but the idea that they haven't experienced massive growth as a result of consolidation is asinine and there's no telling where they'd be had they not consolidated.

Note that Disney bought LucasFilm in 2012 and they bought Marvel in 2009.

Evidence of that is Warner pre merger with Discovery and Paramount today.
So they double down by buying Paramount a studio that is completely sunk? Good luck, that makes no sense.

If Sony Pictures have made bad choices that put them in a bad position buying Paramount will only make things worse.

They're right though, subscription services have decimated the film/tv industry, while gaming continues to grow. This is why so many companies constantly get swallowed up and now like 5 companies own the entire entertainment industry.

"Profits at the biggest entertainment companies fell almost 90% over the last decade (from $23.4B to $2.6B)."


This forum is so frustrating, we have people discussing this topic without even basic understanding.

Outside of Netflix that crawled it's way back recently everything else in the movie business is doing worse than ever, it's a complete collapse. Paramount is just another one of many movie studios that saw their business completely collapse.

The movie streaming boom was fools gold just like Xbox/Gamepass was. At best you can make one service successful at the expense of an entire industry.

To make things even worse now we have the likes of A24 and more nimble studios running circles around legacy studios with smarter marketing and budgeting.

If Sony wants to die by Paramount/Sony Pictures, so be it. RIP, what a stupid way to kill their entire business.
 
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Eternal_Wings

Eternal_Wings

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yes, just look how many films bombs. very few takes almost all revenue. industry doesn't make a lot of good movies which people want to watch. it is either copy paste films, sequels or woke fluff filled films.
It's because they have exhausted all possible scenarios for movie telling. Modern movies are nowadays totally boring or disappointing. See the newest Batman movies, they are a shadow of their past self...
The era of AAA Hollywood blockbuster is over. Hence why Sony wants to focus on more cost efficient markets like Japan, Korea, China for future game productions.
 
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