[WC] PC gamers experiencing crashes with 13/14th gen Intel Core i9 CPUs | UP: Intel issues root cause findings, further stability update inbound

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anonpuffs

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New microcode patch is out. Based on community testing it does what it's supposed to : limits VID requests above 1.55V.

Personal opinion that's still way too high, but maybe CPUs will stop degrading within a month and last a few years. Imo I wouldn't be comfortable with anything higher than 1.45V.

Varied impressions ranging from no performance loss to 10+% performance impact depending on the application.
 

Shmunter

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New microcode patch is out. Based on community testing it does what it's supposed to : limits VID requests above 1.55V.

Personal opinion that's still way too high, but maybe CPUs will stop degrading within a month and last a few years. Imo I wouldn't be comfortable with anything higher than 1.45V.

Varied impressions ranging from no performance loss to 10+% performance impact depending on the application.
All this install now! install now! Dont wait!!! Is making me wait. 🧐
 

arvfab

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How do I find out what gen my i9 is? I bought my laptop in 2020.
 

Gediminas

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How do I find out what gen my i9 is? I bought my laptop in 2020.
Isn't usually the name is on the laptop?
Just open specs of laptop, check the name of the processor, cross check it on internet.
 

Polyh3dron

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This microcode update is kind of bullshit. The voltage spikes that were happening before which were degrading the silicon are still happening, they’re just shorter. Apparently they will only noticeably degrade the silicon once the warranty period has ended now. Great job, Intel.

 
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anonpuffs

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How do I find out what gen my i9 is? I bought my laptop in 2020.
Craptor Lake released in 2022, you're safe

This microcode update is kind of bullshit. The voltage spikes that were happening before which were degrading the silicon are still happening, they’re just shorter. Apparently they will only noticeably degrade the silicon once the warranty period has ended now. Great job, Intel.

frame chasers is a bullshit peddler. you can't catch the dangerous voltage spikes with software because the voltages spikes are shorter than the polling window of most software. >1.4V will degrade silicon under high heat scenarios, but the intel chips don't get that high under load. The problems happen when transitioning between idle and loaded or when initiating a demanding boost clock. They were getting short 1-5ms spikes to >1.6V, which have been sort of addressed in this update. IMO they should have limited it to 1.45 but maybe they would have lost too much performance. Also the lifetime average voltage doesn't matter, Voltage under 1.4V won't degrade the silicon no matter how long you run it. The dangerous times are the spikes of voltage above 1.45V, the more heat and load and time the more it degrades above that threshold.
 
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Polyh3dron

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Craptor Lake released in 2022, you're safe


frame chasers is a bullshit peddler. you can't catch the dangerous voltage spikes with software because the voltages spikes are shorter than the polling window of most software. >1.4V will degrade silicon under high heat scenarios, but the intel chips don't get that high under load. The problems happen when transitioning between idle and loaded or when initiating a demanding boost clock. They were getting short 1-5ms spikes to >1.6V, which have been sort of addressed in this update. IMO they should have limited it to 1.45 but maybe they would have lost too much performance. Also the lifetime average voltage doesn't matter, Voltage under 1.4V won't degrade the silicon no matter how long you run it. The dangerous times are the spikes of voltage above 1.45V, the more heat and load and time the more it degrades above that threshold.
Not sure if you watched the video or not but he’s just testing the CPU and watching the spikes in HWiNFO, and it’s catching them, both before and after the microcode update. Instead of just writing him off as a bullshit peddler, how about addressing his findings…

Dude has been team Intel for the longest time and takes any opportunity to shit on AMD.
 
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anonpuffs

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Not sure if you watched the video or not but he’s just testing the CPU and watching the spikes in HWiNFO, and it’s catching them, both before and after the microcode update. Instead of just writing him off as a bullshit peddler, how about addressing his findings…

Dude has been team Intel for the longest time and takes any opportunity to shit on AMD.
he's a bullshit peddler because of his other videos, not just this one. HWinfo only polls as fast as 20ms increments, and at that speed it starts to interfere with the actual processes on the CPU so you're not getting reliable readings, and besides he hasn't even set the polling rate below 0.5-1s per tick. You can literally see that his hwinfo isn't updating except every second or so. That's not enough to pick up spikes, we already have other people like buildzoid who have hooked up a professional oscilloscope to the CPU and measured 1.54V spikes which is far higher than the 1.46 or whatever that framechasers saw.
 
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Update: root cause confirmed, further stability updates to follow

Following extensive investigation of the Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen desktop processor Vmin Shift Instability issue, Intel can now confirm the root cause diagnosis for the issue. This post will cover Intel’s understanding of the root cause, as well as additional mitigations and next steps for Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen desktop users.

Vmin Shift Instability Root Cause

Intel® has localized the Vmin Shift Instability issue to a clock tree circuit within the IA core which is particularly vulnerable to reliability aging under elevated voltage and temperature. Intel has observed these conditions can lead to a duty cycle shift of the clocks and observed system instability.

Intel® has identified four (4) operating scenarios that can lead to Vmin shift in affected processors:

  1. Motherboard power delivery settings exceeding Intel power guidance.
    a. Mitigation: Intel® Default Settings recommendations for Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen desktop processors.
  2. eTVB Microcode algorithm which was allowing Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen i9 desktop processors to operate at higher performance states even at high temperatures.
    a. Mitigation: microcode 0x125 (June 2024) addresses eTVB algorithm issue.
  3. Microcode SVID algorithm requesting high voltages at a frequency and duration which can cause Vmin shift.
    a. Mitigation: microcode 0x129 (August 2024) addresses high voltages requested by the processor.
  4. Microcode and BIOS code requesting elevated core voltages which can cause Vmin shift especially during periods of idle and/or light activity.
    a. Mitigation: Intel® is releasing microcode 0x12B, which encompasses 0x125 and 0x129 microcode updates, and addresses elevated voltage requests by the processor during idle and/or light activity periods.
Regarding the 0x12B update, Intel® is working with its partners to roll out the relevant BIOS update to the public.

Intel’s internal testing comparing 0x12B microcode to 0x125 microcode – on Intel® Core™ i9-14900K with DDR5 5200MT/s memory1 - indicates performance impact is within run-to-run variation (ie. Cinebench* R23, Speedometer*, WebXPRT4*, Crossmark*). For gaming workloads on Intel® Core™ i9-14900K with DDR5 5600MT/s memory2, performance is also within run-to-run variation (ie. Shadow of the Tomb Raider*, Cyberpunk* 2077, Hitman 3: Dartmoor*, Total War: Warhammer III – Mirrors of Madness*). However, system performance is dependent on configuration and several other factors.

Intel® reaffirms that both Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen mobile processors and future client product families – including the codename Lunar Lake and Arrow Lake families - are unaffected by the Vmin Shift Instability issue. We appreciate our customers’ patience throughout the investigation, as well as our partners’ support in the analysis and relevant mitigations.

Next Steps

For all Intel® Core™ 13th/14th Gen desktop processor users: the 0x12B microcode update must be loaded via BIOS update and has been distributed to system and motherboard manufacturers to incorporate into their BIOS. Intel is working with its partners to encourage timely validation and rollout of the BIOS update for systems currently in service. This process may take several weeks.
 

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Intel: The Volkswagen of chip makers
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