What really is first party nowadays? Definition of first/second/third party games.

[ethomaz]

The games published by SIE on PSN are first party.

Many of the games you mention are first party when taken from the perspective of the storefront it's on.

All games I listed are 3rd-party lol

“Perspective of storefront” is something you guys are creating to set a narrative.
You didn’t have storefront in most of gaming generations.

Games published by Sony on PSN depend of the ownership to say if it is 1st or 3rd party.

Stellar Blade for example is 3rd-party.
Page 10 have Sony’s first party list… you can see Helldiver 2 and Astro Bot.
Not Stellar Blade.

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/24q2_supplement.pdf

Do you want more confirmantion?

 

[arvfab]

All games I listed are 3rd-party lol

“Perspective of storefront” is something you guys are creating to set a narrative.
You didn’t have storefront in most of gaming generations.

Games published by Sony on PSN depend of the ownership to say if it is 1st or 3rd party.

Stellar Blade for example is 3rd-party.
Page 10 have Sony’s first party list… you can see Helldiver 2 and Astro Bot.
Not Stellar Blade.

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/24q2_supplement.pdf

Do you want more confirmantion?

Give up buddy, I've noticed there is a lot of people with an allergy to intelligence. You're just wasting your time.

 

[Ezekiel]

All games I listed are 3rd-party lol

“Perspective of storefront” is something you guys are creating to set a narrative.
You didn’t have storefront in most of gaming generations.

Games published by Sony on PSN depend of the ownership to say if it is 1st or 3rd party.

Stellar Blade for example is 3rd-party.
Page 10 have Sony’s first party list… you can see Helldiver 2 and Astro Bot.
Not Stellar Blade.

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/24q2_supplement.pdf

Do you want more confirmantion?

It's a selection of titles, not the complete list.

Still accurate to call Stellar Blade a first party game when sold on PSN.

Notice there's mention of Spider-Man on that list, yet they don't own the IP rights for the video game character.

 

[Kokoloko]

I think with games going MP like Death Stranding and not owned by Sony.

The only thing that is classified as 1st party now or scratch that, important to me is if the game is made by a studio that is owned by Playstation Studios/ Sony and is there IP only.
Or majority of the development is by a Sony/Playstation owned studio

Something like Helldivers could also be bought back by Arrowhead if it was in the contract. Which I expect more and more 3rd/2nd party studios will do when they co make games with Sony/Playstation. Rise of Ronin, Im not sure who owns that because it went back and forth from what I remember.

Timed exclusives like Stellar Blade and Death Stranding are great but Sony needs more ownership of studios and ips if they want more moneyz and ownerships of games. Yes the way they are doing business is fine but for a better future they need more

So 1st party, 2nd party, 3rd party, doesnt matter. Only way for certain to know a game is Sony/Playstation owned, is if the game is made by a studio they own fully and they own the IP

 

[akira__]

The point of context of the concepts of first, second, third party games is within the console wars.

Console war is over xbox yielded. In the eyes of sony they sold Kojima the rights of death stranding IP. But since there is no competition, there is no need for that IP. Exclusives are reasons to buy their console over the other consoles. There is no console in the same market(according to sony), so we are going back to the mindset of Playstation pre Ps3.

For all these definitions first, second, third-party we can find exceptions. And now because of the end of the console wars we'll see more games/ip's being non traditional.

 

[Yurinka]

All games I listed are 3rd-party lol

“Perspective of storefront” is something you guys are creating to set a narrative.
You didn’t have storefront in most of gaming generations.

Games published by Sony on PSN depend of the ownership to say if it is 1st or 3rd party.

Stellar Blade for example is 3rd-party.
Page 10 have Sony’s first party list… you can see Helldiver 2 and Astro Bot.
Not Stellar Blade.

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/24q2_supplement.pdf

Do you want more confirmantion?

Stellar Blade is first party because it's published by Sony, the platform holder.

That page 10 (11) is only a recap of the publicly announced sales numbers for their first party games. Notice that games like Gran Turismo 7 or Concord aren't there, do you really think they are 3rd party? No, Stellar Blade, GT7 and Concord are 1st party but aren't in that list because they don't have any publicly announced sales numbers.

Second-party is an sub category created by journalists to say a 1st-party games that where developed by a external studio (not owned by the platform holder).
Second-party itself doesn't exists.

Second party isn't something created by journalists.

It has been being used in the industry for decades to differentiate inside the first parties the ones that, like Stellar Blade, Helldivers 2, Sunset Overdrive, Bayonetta 3 or Rise of the Ronin are first party because they are published by the platform holder, but are developed by an external (not owned by the platform holder) lead development studio.

 

[TrishaCat]

I thought it was
1st party - developed and published directly by the console owner or by a company owned by the console owner (i.e. God of War, Halo, Legend of Zelda: BotW)
2nd party - developed by an external company but is an IP owned by the console owner (i.e. Starfox Assault, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Helldivers)
3rd party - developed and owned by an external company (literally almost every game ever made)

 

[ethomaz]

It's a selection of titles, not the complete list.

Still accurate to call Stellar Blade a first party game when sold on PSN.

Notice there's mention of Spider-Man on that list, yet they don't own the IP rights for the video game character.

It is not accurate to call Stellar Blade a first party because it is not first party.

 

[ethomaz]

Stellar Blade is first party because it's published by Sony, the platform holder.

That page 10 (11) is only a recap of the publicly announced sales numbers for their first party games. Notice that games like Gran Turismo 7 or Concord aren't there, do you really think they are 3rd party? No, Stellar Blade, GT7 and Concord are 1st party but aren't in that list because they don't have any publicly announced sales numbers.


Second party isn't something created by journalists.

It has been being used in the industry for decades to differentiate inside the first parties the ones that, like Stellar Blade, Helldivers 2, Sunset Overdrive, Bayonetta 3 or Rise of the Ronin are first party because they are published by the platform holder, but are developed by an external (not owned by the platform holder) lead development studio.

Stellar Blade is 3rd-party.
It was announced 1 million... every single public first-party sales announcement is there.
GT7 and Concord didn't had any public sales announcement.
Stellar Blade had.

Do you understand now?

 

[Ezekiel]

It is not accurate to call Stellar Blade a first party because it is not first party.

Is Spider-Man a third party game on PSN?

Will Wolverine be a third party game on PSN?

Fascinating how everyone has their own definitions of what first/third party are

 

[Yurinka]

Stellar Blade is 3rd-party.
It was announced 1 million... every single public first-party sales announcement is there.
GT7 and Concord didn't had any public sales announcement.
Stellar Blade had.

Do you understand now?

The Shift Up conference to announce their IPO, Shift Up's CFO mentioned that they estimated to exceed 1M copies sold, that isn't a public sales number announcement by Sony:
https://m.gamemeca.com/view.php?gid=1750274

Here you have a Shift Up legal document for their government and investors mentioning and explaining that Stellar Blade is a Sony second party game:

https://dart.fss.or.kr/dsaf001/main.do?rcpNo=20240520000263

Shift Up also released a press release announcing that Stellar Blade was going to be a second party game:
https://www.gamechosun.co.kr/webzine/article/view.php?no=201010&pvMode=pc

Stop being a gaming flatearther.

I thought it was
1st party - developed and published directly by the console owner or by a company owned by the console owner (i.e. God of War, Halo, Legend of Zelda: BotW)
2nd party - developed by an external company but is an IP owned by the console owner (i.e. Starfox Assault, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Helldivers)
3rd party - developed and owned by an external company (literally almost every game ever made)

1st party = game published by the platform holder, the lead dev team can be both internal (owned by the platform holder) or external (not owned by the platform holder)
2nd party = the first party games published by the platform holder whose lead dev team is not owned by the platform holder
3rd party = game not published by the platform holder

 

[KvallyX]

I thought it was
1st party - developed and published directly by the console owner or by a company owned by the console owner (i.e. God of War, Halo, Legend of Zelda: BotW)
2nd party - developed by an external company but is an IP owned by the console owner (i.e. Starfox Assault, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Helldivers)
3rd party - developed and owned by an external company (literally almost every game ever made)

^this is my impression as well for all these years....the industry standard definition if you ask me.

However, I feel like Sony and MS call any game developed, where they own the IP, a first party game. I think they have both officially stated as such. But I still go by your definition.

 

[Hezekiah]

The Shift Up conference to announce their IPO, Shift Up's CFO mentioned that they estimated to exceed 1M copies sold, that isn't a public sales number announcement by Sony:
https://m.gamemeca.com/view.php?gid=1750274

Here you have a Shift Up legal document for their government and investors mentioning and explaining that Stellar Blade is a Sony second party game:

https://dart.fss.or.kr/dsaf001/main.do?rcpNo=20240520000263

Shift Up also released a press release announcing that Stellar Blade was going to be a second party game:
https://www.gamechosun.co.kr/webzine/article/view.php?no=201010&pvMode=pc

Stop being a gaming flatearther.


1st party = game published by the platform holder, the lead dev team can be both internal (owned by the platform holder) or external (not owned by the platform holder)
2nd party = the first party games published by the platform holder whose lead dev team is not owned by the platform holder
3rd party = game not published by the platform holder

And to think some people don't like the term second-party aswell

 

[TrishaCat]

1st party = game published by the platform holder, the lead dev team can be both internal (owned by the platform holder) or external (not owned by the platform holder)

this doesn't work because platform holders sometimes publish games that aren't their's at all
Square Enix in particular sometimes lets Nintendo publish their games on the Switch. Bravely Default II is an example, but it would not make sense to call that a first party game

 

[voke]

fanboy rhetoric

 

[ethomaz]

Is Spider-Man a third party game on PSN?

Will Wolverine be a third party game on PSN?

Fascinating how everyone has their own definitions of what first/third party are

You are confusing licensed material IP with game IP.

Sony used the licensed material IP from Marvel to build the game IP.
"Marvel's Spider-Man" game IP is not owned by Marvel... it is owned by Sony.
Others Spider-man games IP are owned to others parties (yeap it is not the first game IP based in a licensed IP name).
And others publishers / developers / platform holders can created it own game IP based in Marvel Spider-man in the future if Marvel licenses the material to them.
Marvel's Spider-Man games created by Sony are indeed first-party.

But maybe you need another example.

The Witcher.
You have the licensed IP name that will be used by your game... that is owned by the autor of the books.
CDPR created their own "Witcher" game that are their own game IP... it is based in the licensed material they got from the autor.

CDPR owns The Witcher games they produced... it is their IP.
But the material they based the game is not owned by them... it is licensed.

 

[ethomaz]

The Shift Up conference to announce their IPO, Shift Up's CFO mentioned that they estimated to exceed 1M copies sold, that isn't a public sales number announcement by Sony:
https://m.gamemeca.com/view.php?gid=1750274

Here you have a Shift Up legal document for their government and investors mentioning and explaining that Stellar Blade is a Sony second party game:

https://dart.fss.or.kr/dsaf001/main.do?rcpNo=20240520000263

Shift Up also released a press release announcing that Stellar Blade was going to be a second party game:
https://www.gamechosun.co.kr/webzine/article/view.php?no=201010&pvMode=pc

Stop being a gaming flatearther.


1st party = game published by the platform holder, the lead dev team can be both internal (owned by the platform holder) or external (not owned by the platform holder)
2nd party = the first party games published by the platform holder whose lead dev team is not owned by the platform holder
3rd party = game not published by the platform holder

Again you twist things lol
You are talking about a 3rd-party game being 2nd-party game using the definition of second-party developer

A developer can be called, even if not a business term, as second-party.... including CMA and EU commission used it some years ago.
If you want the description yourself:

But that has nothing to do with the Stellar Blade game that is a 3rd-party game exclusive to PS5.
The developer signing what they call a second party"development contract doesn't change that.

Again there is no "second party" terms for games except for some journalists using it.
Because or you own the game IP (1st-party) or not (3rd-party).
And that is exactly why Publishing rights has nothing to with with games being 1st-party or 3rd-party.

 

[Yurinka]

Again you twist things lol
You are talking about a 3rd-party game being 2nd-party game using the definition of second-party developer

A developer can be called, even if not a business term, as second-party.... including CMA and EU commission used it some years ago.
If you want the description yourself:

But that has nothing to do with the Stellar Blade game that is a 3rd-party game exclusive to PS5.
The developer signing what they call a second party"development contract doesn't change that.

Again there is no "second party" terms for games except for some journalists using it.
Because or you own the game IP (1st-party) or not (3rd-party).
And that is exactly why Publishing rights has nothing to with with games being 1st-party or 3rd-party.

I don't twist anything and that image fits exactly with that I said because games and developers are not the same thing, definitions are different.

Games:

• First party game: the one published by the platform holder
• Second party game: first party game developed by studio not owned by the platform holder
• Third party game: the one not published by the platform holder

Developers:

• First party developer: owned by the platform holder
• Second party developer: not owned by the platform holder but make games published by the platform holder
• Third party developer: not owned by the platform holder and makes games not published by the platform holder

Stellar Blade is both a 1st and 2nd party game. Not 3rd party.

Shift Up is a 3rd party developer that signed a deal to be a 2nd party developer for Stellar Blade.

this doesn't work because platform holders sometimes publish games that aren't their's at all
Square Enix in particular sometimes lets Nintendo publish their games on the Switch. Bravely Default II is an example, but it would not make sense to call that a first party game

A game is 1st or 3rd party depending on if the publisher is the platform holder or not, independently of who owns the IP.

A 1st party title is when the game (that specific version for that specific platform or region) is published by the platform holder, even if in other region or platform is published by somebody else. When it's published by somebody else that isn't owned by the platform holder, then it's 3rd party.

Bravely Default 2 in Windows and in its Japanese Switch version is 3rd party. The Switch version outside Japan is first party (and specifically 2nd party).

 

[ethomaz]

I don't twist anything and that image fits exactly with that I said because games and developers are not the same thing, definitions are different.

Games:

• First party game: the one published owned by the platform holder
• Second party game: first party game developed by studio not owned by the platform holder
• Third party game: the one not published owned by the platform holder

Developers:

• First party developer: owned by the platform holder
• Second party developer: not owned by the platform holder but make games published by the platform holder have a contract to follow what the platform holder wants (in most cases it is a exclusive contract but the platform holder can just ask to not release in determined platform that doesn't make the game exclusive... so what matter here is what was write in the contract).
• Third party developer: not owned by the platform holder and makes games not published owned by the platform holder

Now you are starting to get there...

Just little fixes.

Publisher rights have nothing to do with the any of these definition because publishing right can go to anybody.
Sony can right now contract a 3rd-party publisher to publish their first-party games and they will continue being first-party games.
Having another company publishing your own games doesn't make them 3rd-party.

For example.

Death Stranding before Kojima get back the IP ownership.
The game were Sony's first party.
Another company publishing it on PC doesn't make it any less first-party (or second party if you wish)... it continue being a Sony's first-party game.
Like MLB being published by MLB on Xbox continue being a Sony's first-party game developed by a Sony's first-party studio... Sony even counts it revenue as "Revenue from first-party games in others platforms".

Of course now it is not anymore because they sold the IP back to Kojima.

Stellar Blade was never a first-party game.
Neither a second-party game.
It is a 3rd-party game.

Even if it is developed by a 3rd-party developer that has a exclusive contract with Sony... aka second-party developer.

How publishes the game doesn't matter at all.

PS. I should have used the MLB example early that should had killed most of replies I received with others guys that had no ideia what they were talking about (not you specifically... you are just confusing things).

 

[Ezekiel]

Even our favorite CEO, Philip the spender thinks that a financed and publish game makes it first party