What really is first party nowadays? Definition of first/second/third party games.

[ethomaz]

In this image you can see that you are wrong: Sony calls first party MLB even if they don't own the IP. You are wrong, I am right.

MLB (or Lego Horizon) is a Sony and PS first party game because Sony is both the publisher and platform holder. And that's why they call it first party there.

But all games on Xbox not published by MS and all the ones on Switch all games not published by Nintendo are 3rd party games. And that includes MLB and Lego Horizon.

Nintendo shows the MS and Sony games released on Switch on third party/partner showcases because they are not first party there: they are third party.


No, Bayonetta 2 and 3 are first party games because Nintendo publishes them, even if Nintendo doesn't own the IP. Because Nintendo is both the publisher and platform holder.

Just like MLB and Spider-Man are first party games on PS because Sony is both the publisher and the platform holder even if they don't own the IP.


That's stupid, everyone knows Spider-Man is a Marvel IP: it's even shown in the name or copyrights/trademarks.

Marvel licensed the Spider-Man IP to Sony to make some games, as did with Wolverine or X-Men. We even saw a leaked Insomniac document talking about that. Just like Marvel licensed to other people IPs to make Avengers, Marvel Alliance, Marvel Vs Capcom, Blade and so on. Marvel licenses their IPs to publishers allowing them to use them in their games, they don't sell them.

Same case as MLB did to Sony, or as Sega did with Bayonetta to Nintendo. Or as FIFA did to EA: an IP owner licenses their IP to a game publisher allowing them to make games with it.


For MS or Xbox yes. In PlayStation and Switch it's a 3rd party game.


I even shown you a legal document and a press release saying that Stellar Blade is 2nd party (which means it is first party).

Death Stranding continues being 1st party for Sony and PS because Sony is both the platform holder and publisher of Death Stranding, Death Stranding Director's Cut and Death Stranding 2 on PS. Death Stranding always has been a 3rd party tiele on PC and Xbox because it wasn't published there by the platform holder of these platforms.


I already shown you a legally binding legal document and a press release saying so.

You repeating yourself over and over again claiming docs that doesn't say you what you claim won't make it true.

Again.
..

The Show is Sony's first party no matter the platform or who published it.

Bayonetta are 3rd-party unless Sega sells the game IP to Nintendo.
Sony already was owner of Spider-man game IP before they purchased Insomniac... who developed it doesn't matter to be 1st-party.
Sea of Thieves is MS's 1st-party no matter the platform or who published it.

Game IP ownership says if it is 1st-party or 3rd-party... not the publishing rights... publishing rights is just that publishing rights.
Kojima had to get back the ownership of Death Stranding to it be 3rd-party.
Stellar Blade is 3rd-party no matter who publishes it.

Sony will never put Stellar Blade in any document as 1st-party even if they published it because it is not first-party.

Basically every Sony's quarter has notes talking what is first-party

 

[Yurinka]

You repeating yourself over and over again claiming docs that doesn't say you what you claim won't make it true.

Again.
..

The Show is Sony's first party no matter the platform or who published it.

The MLB games are first party for Sony or PS. MLB games are third party for Xbox or Switch.

Bayonetta are 3rd-party unless Sega sells the game IP to Nintendo.

No, they are first party (and second party) games using an IP licensed by Sega.

Sony already was owner of Spider-man game IP before they purchased Insomniac... who developed it doesn't matter to be 1st-party.

This is another dumb bullshit you made out.

The "Spider-Man game IP" doesn't exist, so Sony can't own it. The Spider-Man IP exists and it's owned by Marvel/Disney. And Marvel/Disney licenses it to different companies to use it in different kinds of products. In case of games, Marvel licenses it to game publishers to use it in different kind of deals.

You can see that this is the case in the non-Sony games that feature Spider-Man (Marvel's Avengers, Marvel vs Capcom, Fortnite, Midnight Suns...) because they have the Marvel copyright and not the Sony one.

Here you have some details of the Marvel -> Sony licensing leaked in the Insomniac docs:
https://imgur.com/gallery/marvel-deal-restrictions-royalties-SxmjClK

And here some leaked details of the Marvel -> X-Men/Wolverine IP licensing deal:

Notice it says in the title "LICENSE TERMS", not "IP acquisition terms" or something like that. Marvel licensed the Spider-Man and X-Men/Wolverine IPs to Sony to make and sell some games during a period of time, didn't sold these IPs to Sony.

Sea of Thieves is MS's 1st-party no matter the platform or who published it.

Game IP ownership says if it is 1st-party or 3rd-party... not the publishing rights... publishing rights is just that publishing rights.

Then according to you MLB or Spider-Man are not first party games on PS because Sony doesn't own these IPs.

Kojima had to get back the ownership of Death Stranding to it be 3rd-party.

The Death Stranding games continues being first party games for Sony and PS because Sony is both the publisher and platform holder there.

Stellar Blade is 3rd-party no matter who publishes it.


Sony will never put Stellar Blade in any document as 1st-party even if they published it because it is not first-party.

Here you have it, this is a legal document for the government, regulators and investors saying that Stellar Blade is a 2nd party game (so first party game and NOT A THIRD PARTY GAME):

Basically every Sony's quarter has notes talking what is first-party

Sony is saying in that document the same I'm saying: MLB is a first party game for them and PS. Nothing written there says that these games aren't third party games on rival consoles and PC.

Everybody knows that Switch games not published by Nintendo are 3rd party Switch games, Xbox games not published by MS are Xbox 3rd party games, PS games not published by Sony on PS are 3rd party games. Except apparently you.

 

[arvfab]

@ethomaz I told you, you are just wasting time.

Dude probably thinks Nike shoes are 3rd party shoes if they are sold at Foot Locker, but 1st party if they are sold at the Nike store.

 

[ethomaz]

The MLB games are first party for Sony or PS. MLB games are third party for Xbox or Switch.


No, they are first party (and second party) games using an IP licensed by Sega.


This is another dumb bullshit you made out.

The "Spider-Man game IP" doesn't exist, so Sony can't own it. The Spider-Man IP exists and it's owned by Marvel/Disney. And Marvel/Disney licenses it to different companies to use it in different kinds of products. In case of games, Marvel licenses it to game publishers to use it in different kind of deals.

You can see that this is the case in the non-Sony games that feature Spider-Man (Marvel's Avengers, Marvel vs Capcom, Fortnite, Midnight Suns...) because they have the Marvel copyright and not the Sony one.

Here you have some details of the Marvel -> Sony licensing leaked in the Insomniac docs:
https://imgur.com/gallery/marvel-deal-restrictions-royalties-SxmjClK

And here some leaked details of the Marvel -> X-Men/Wolverine IP licensing deal:

Notice it says in the title "LICENSE TERMS", not "IP acquisition terms" or something like that. Marvel licensed the Spider-Man and X-Men/Wolverine IPs to Sony to make and sell some games during a period of time, didn't sold these IPs to Sony.


Then according to you MLB or Spider-Man are not first party games on PS because Sony doesn't own these IPs.


The Death Stranding games continues being first party games for Sony and PS because Sony is both the publisher and platform holder there.


Here you have it, this is a legal document for the government, regulators and investors saying that Stellar Blade is a 2nd party game (so first party game and NOT A THIRD PARTY GAME):

Sony is saying in that document the same I'm saying: MLB is a first party game for them and PS. Nothing written there says that these games aren't third party games on rival consoles and PC.

Everybody knows that Switch games not published by Nintendo are 3rd party Switch games, Xbox games not published by MS are Xbox 3rd party games, PS games not published by Sony on PS are 3rd party games. Except apparently you.

Did you read the own prints you post?
Because no place it says the Stellar Balde game is first-party or even second-party.
Same for the Insomniac print... it doesn't even talk about the Game IP... just the licensed Marvel material.

Just look at EA.
EA have a football game IP that used the licensed FIFA material (BTW they didn't use it in the past but that is another example).
EA broke the license FIFA material deal.
EA just used the same game, removed the FIFA references and names and released it as FC Football Club (or whatever).

Do you understand why?
Because they own all the game assets, the game code, the game build... they own the game IP they build.
FIFA can do nothing against that... because they only licensed their IP to be used in a game.

Same for Spider-man... it was not the first game IP to use the licensed Spider-man material... but it is the first create by Sony.
They own Spider-man game assets, code, etc... Sony owns the Game IP.
If they break the contract with Marvel about the licensed material they just need to remove all the Spider-man references call it Super Hero and release it.
Marvel can do nothing about that because Sony owns the Game IP.

And no matter what if some other publisher releases that Sony's owned game in another platform it is still a Sony's first-party title.
Sony's owns... it doesn't matter who Sony choose to give the publishing rights... Sony still own the game.
That company that got the publishing rights can't do anything... can't change the game... can't create another game... they can only publish following the publishing rights contract.
Only who owns the game can change, create sequel, etc... it can delegate it to a external studio or do themselves with a first-party studio.

Nothing of that matters because the game will continue being first-party.
Until Sony sells it to somebody else.

Do you understand what means to own the game (first-party)?

Sony doesn't own Stellar Blade... they have the publishing rights.
Marvel doesn't own Spider-man game... they own the licensed material used to create the game.

It doesn't matter who is publishing it or in what platform it is being published.
Or which licensed material you are using to theme the game.

If you own a game it is yours until you sell it to another party.... AKA first-party.

I'm a Sony's fanboy... I should be the first to want to call all these games on PlayStation like Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin, etc as first-party... but they aren't.
Just like most of games of PS1 where 3rd-party and just become 1st-party after Sony brought the Studio that owned the games IPs.
Sadly a lot of 3rd-party published games by Sony as exclusive, some even considered PS1 mascot, were lost.

Just think about Crash Bandicoot.
A game developed by Naught Dogs (that where independent at time), published by Sony that never become 1st-party.... because when Sony brought Naught Dog the game IP was already gone to another party.
A first-party games can't be taken from you unless you choose to sell it.
A published game can be taken from you because you only have that... the publishing rights.

Imagine how bad at time to have it own PS1's mascot not being first-party lol
Sony could do nothing about that instead to try to buy the game IP (they tried).

 

[ethomaz]

Do you know why some guys here says publishing rights define what is first-party or not???
Because a nobody come and say some lies and now everybody is spreading that.
One of the biggest liars in the game industry... the used car seller.

That is why some guys here are fighting with "everything" for "publishing rights defines first-party" lol

I let you here to you device in who believes... the Uncle's clan or actual game facts.

 

[ethomaz]

Publishing has nothing with being first-party or not...
Directly from Remedy.

 

[Yurinka]

As Phil says, a game is 1st party when published by the platform holder.

It has nothing to do with the IP ownership or not, or if they own the main studio who developed it or not.

Did you read the own prints you post?
Because no place it says the Stellar Balde game is first-party or even second-party.

The source I provided proves Stellar Blade is a second party (so first party) game, which means that the platform holder is the publisher. The IP ownership has nothing to do with being 1st or 3rd party.

Same for the Insomniac print... it doesn't even talk about the Game IP... just the licensed Marvel material.

Insomniac doesn't talk about the IP ownership because the IP ownership is not related at all with being 1st or 3rd party.

Both Marvel's Spider-Man or Ratchet are first party because they are published by Sony. And before they were acquired, 2nd party.

Just look at EA.

Same for Spider-man... it was not the first game IP to use the licensed Spider-man material... but it is the first create by Sony.
They own Spider-man game assets, code, etc... Sony owns the Game IP.

No.

Marvel (Disney) owns the Spider-Man IP and licensed it to Sony to allow them to make games.

In the same way that FIFA owns the FIFA IP and licensed it to EA to make games with it.

Or in the same way that Sega owns the Bayonetta IP and licensed it to Nintendo to make games with it.

Same goes with Star Wars, Lego, James Bond, etc. The IP owners of these brands license them to different game publishers in exchance of certain conditions (depending on the case money payment, revenue share, development/marketing budget splits, etc) in order to allow them to make one or multiple games.

But to license an IP isn't to sell it, it means to allow to use it.

Do you understand what means to own the game (first-party)?

Yes, I know that to have developed a game doesn't mean that the development studio uses the IP of the game, as happens in the cases of FIFA, Marvel's Spider-Man or Ubisoft's Star Wars.

I also know that which decides if a games is first or third party of a console is not who developed it or who owns the IP. It's if the publisher is the platform holder of that platform or not.

Sony doesn't own Stellar Blade... they have the publishing rights.

Yes, Sony published it and since they are the PS platform holder that makes Stellar Blade a PS first party game. And since Sony doesn't own the main dev of the game (Shift Up), it's also a second party game, as mentioned in the legal document I shared.

Shift Up is the one who owns the Stellar Blade IP, and as seen in the document I shared that doesn't make the game 3rd party because the IP ownership is not related at all to decide if a game is 1st or 3rd party.

Marvel doesn't own Spider-man game... they own the licensed material used to create the game.

Marvel owns the Spider-Man IP. And licensed it to Sony to allow Sony to publish a game using it.

Just think about Crash Bandicoot.
A game developed by Naught Dogs (that where independent at time), published by Sony that never become 1st-party.... because when Sony brought Naught Dog the game IP was already gone to another party.

The early Crash Bandicoot games published by Sony, so were first party because Sony published them in their own platform.

Even if they didn't own the IP (Universal did) or the studio back then (which later got acquired). Since back then ND wasn't a Sony studio, in addition to be first party they were 2nd party.

Imagine how bad at time to have it own PS1's mascot not being first-party lol
Sony could do nothing about that instead to try to buy the game IP (they tried).

After the ND games (as I remember the first 3, Crash Bash and CTR, maybe I'm wrong) were published by Sony, so were 1st party.

After that, the Crash Bandicoot IP owner Universal (later Vivendi and later Activision Blizzard) decided to self publish and make multiplatform the other Crash Bandicoot games to be released since then. Meaning, made the IP 3rd party because no longer were published by the platform holder.

If in the future MS decides to make new Crash Bandicoot games, they will be Xbox first party games (and 3rd party PS and Switch games).

 

[arvfab]

As Phil says, a game is 1st party when published by the platform holder.

It has nothing to do with the IP ownership or not, or if they own the main studio who developed it or not.


The source I provided proves Stellar Blade is a second party (so first party) game, which means that the platform holder is the publisher. The IP ownership has nothing to do with being 1st or 3rd party.


Insomniac doesn't talk about the IP ownership because the IP ownership is not related at all with being 1st or 3rd party.

Both Marvel's Spider-Man or Ratchet are first party because they are published by Sony. And before they were acquired, 2nd party.



No.

Marvel (Disney) owns the Spider-Man IP and licensed it to Sony to allow them to make games.

In the same way that FIFA owns the FIFA IP and licensed it to EA to make games with it.

Or in the same way that Sega owns the Bayonetta IP and licensed it to Nintendo to make games with it.

Same goes with Star Wars, Lego, James Bond, etc. The IP owners of these brands license them to different game publishers in exchance of certain conditions (depending on the case money payment, revenue share, development/marketing budget splits, etc) in order to allow them to make one or multiple games.

But to license an IP isn't to sell it, it means to allow to use it.


Yes, I know that to have developed a game doesn't mean that the development studio uses the IP of the game, as happens in the cases of FIFA, Marvel's Spider-Man or Ubisoft's Star Wars.

I also know that which decides if a games is first or third party of a console is not who developed it or who owns the IP. It's if the publisher is the platform holder of that platform or not.


Yes, Sony published it and since they are the PS platform holder that makes Stellar Blade a PS first party game. And since Sony doesn't own the main dev of the game (Shift Up), it's also a second party game, as mentioned in the legal document I shared.

Shift Up is the one who owns the Stellar Blade IP, and as seen in the document I shared that doesn't make the game 3rd party because the IP ownership is not related at all to decide if a game is 1st or 3rd party.


Marvel owns the Spider-Man IP. And licensed it to Sony to allow Sony to publish a game using it.

The early Crash Bandicoot games published by Sony, so were first party because Sony published them in their own platform.

Even if they didn't own the IP (Universal did) or the studio back then (which later got acquired). Since back then ND wasn't a Sony studio, in addition to be first party they were 2nd party.


After the ND games (as I remember the first 3, Crash Bash and CTR, maybe I'm wrong) were published by Sony, so were 1st party.

After that, the Crash Bandicoot IP owner Universal (later Vivendi and later Activision Blizzard) decided to self publish and make multiplatform the other Crash Bandicoot games to be released since then. Meaning, made the IP 3rd party because no longer were published by the platform holder.

If in the future MS decides to make new Crash Bandicoot games, they will be Xbox first party games (and 3rd party PS and Switch games).

So many wrong things in one post, incredible.

Didn't know it was possible for a game to be occasionally or accidentally first-party.....

 

[Ezekiel]

First-party : Of products, published by the company responsible for the platform on which it is released, as opposed to third-party.

It is dependent on two things : 1) Who is the publisher, 2) What is the platform. When both match, it is considered a first party game on that platform. If not, it's third-party.