Why do single player gamers like high stakes stories but...

[Men_in_Boxes]

You must be very young to say that. Games earlier didn't have any save at all. A game over meant starting from the beginning.

True, but when games didn't have any saves, it was due to severe technical limitations. It was nearly impossible to imagine choice, consequence, and stakes being explored during gamings earliest stages.

 

[arvfab]

Rimworld, XCom, FTL, Spelunky

These are all games where stakes and consequence are baked into the narrative from inception. These are gamers games.

Go into detail, please, what gameplay mechanics make the difference to other games having "tacked on" permadeath or similar, and how are they baked into the narrative?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Go into detail, please, what gameplay mechanics make the difference to other games having "tacked on" permadeath or similar,

When games focus on risk as a tool, they give you a wider array of things to gamble in the experience. They want the player to look at their current situation as a hand of cards. I have X, Y, Z, but I'm low on A and C. What am I willing to risk or focus on to improve my hand? In games like The Last of Us, you're constantly given a full hand because the games linear, hoop jumping nature requires the player to have the necessary tools to progress. There's nothing interesting to wager in The Last of Us's permadeath mode

and how are they baked into the narrative?

Easy to explain.

The narrative: "I'm the main villain and you should fear me."

Gameplay mechanics: "Why should I fear you when I have infinite lives and frequent checkpoints?"

It's why horror movies always have a powerful monster and underpowered protagonists who don't want to die. Gaming has it all backwards in its mechanics.

 

[arvfab]

What am I willing to risk or focus on to improve my hand? In games like The Last of Us, you're constantly given a full hand because the games linear, hoop jumping nature requires the player to have the necessary tools to progress. There's nothing interesting to wager in The Last of Us's permadeath mode

That's not true. The higher the difficulty, the more difficult it is to find resources. You have to make choices regarding what to craft, if it's better to avoid or engage the enemies, which path to take for stealth, etc.

Easy to explain.

You haven't explained how the games you mentioned implement what you are complaining about.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

That's not true. The higher the difficulty, the more difficult it is to find resources. You have to make choices regarding what to craft, if it's better to avoid or engage the enemies, which path to take for stealth, etc.

And yet no one plays the permadeath mode because it's not interesting. Players know when something is low effort, tacked on.

You haven't explained how the games you mentioned implement what you are complaining about.

I have. I will reiterate...

Games with risk, make decisions more compelling.

 

[arvfab]

Games with risk, make decisions more compelling.

How do the games you mentioned do it. What risks? How do they change the narrative?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

How do the games you mentioned do it. What risks? How do they change the narrative?

They bring failure and the risk of resource loss to the forefront of the players mind. They do this through removing infinite lives from the player and providing gameplay scenarios that are more complex than simply PASS / FAIL. They don't change the narrative, they tone match the narrative.

 

[BroodCorp]

It’s levels to what people are willing to endure for the sake of a challenge.

I’m pretty sure you don’t play with permdeath rules. I know people who do and they have the most right to question who is and isn’t getting the most out of their gameplay experience.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I’m pretty sure you don’t play with permdeath rules. I know people who do and they have the most right to question who is and isn’t getting the most out of their gameplay experience.

Talking game design is everyone's right. There is no room for silencing those who want to share their opinions here.

 

[arvfab]

providing gameplay scenarios that are more complex than simply PASS / FAIL

I don't know the games, only XCOM, do please provide examples of the scenarios.