XBL and PS Plus Online Paywalls need to go

[Vertigo]

Let’s get straight to the point …

The biggest online games Fortnite and Warzone are f2p. There is no paywall to access the game or to play online.

This is unlike other big online games such as GTA, Rainbow Six and Destiny which all require ps plus to engage in multiplayer.

Most f2p games bypass the ps plus and xbl paywall needed. Sounds great right for players. That’s another barrier for entry eliminated.

The playing field needs to be leveled. The revenue generated by the two juggernauts, Fortnite and Warzone is used as the justification… comes off a bit like cronyism.

I do believe that this hurts competition. Console marketplaces are effectively handicapping competition in the field by playing favorites.

The biggest game companies can develop huge f2p games. Most other game devs need to actually charge you for entry. And they should… they can’t front and hemorrhage dev costs as if they’re Microsoft. It’s becoming less and less likely that any newcomers will be be able to break into the field.

It’s time. It must go. Retire both xbl gold and plus and have them fully be absorbed by Gamespass and Extra.

 

[Hezekiah]

Been mentioned several times and I agree with the premise, but it's not going to happen. They make too much money from the FIFA/Madden/CoD boys.

 

[Vertigo]

Been mentioned several times and I agree with the premise, but it's not going to happen. They make too much money from the FIFA/Madden/CoD boys.

2002 called. Madden wants its popularity back.

 

[Hezekiah]

2002 called. Madden wants its popularity back.

I'm not American, but it's no.3 on the NPD 2021 list of best-selling games...

Regardless the point remains - while a lot of people are willing to pay, they will continue to sell.

 

[Vertigo]

I'm not American, but it's no.3 on the NPD 2021 list of best-selling games...

Regardless the point remains - while a lot of people are willing to pay, they will continue to sell.

NPD is nowhere near an accurate snapshot of the marketplace and what people actually play at this point or even spend their money on. Lack of digital, dlc revenues, and LOL Fortnite sold zero copies.

Madden has fallen extremely hard and is nowhere near as relevant as it was 20 years ago. I’m not saying it’s not popular but it’s out of the conversation for industry shakers at this point. Top 20 game maybe. No longer anywhere near the top spot it once fought CoD and GtA over.

NBA 2K on the other hand absolutely dominates the sports genre in the US. FIFA is (was - EA lost FIFA) probably EA’s strongest globally.

Vanguard sold huge too in the last year… the previous years’ Cold War had a stronger playerbase.

Sales become less relevant with online games who live or die on actually sustaining a playerbase.

 

[arvfab]

Non-Xbox gamers kept saying it from the beginning, but because one fanbase proved that it's okay to bend at 90°, the others (people keep forgetting that Nintendo is charging, too) didn't want to miss out.

have them fully be absorbed by Gamespass and Extra

And this premise is even worse, because it's following the same pattern, and soon it will be the only way to access your games...I mean access the games you are allowed to rent.

 

[Vertigo]

I don’t necessarily have a problem with online paywalls. Online gaming on pc is a cesspool of hackers and cheats. Paying for something a bit more secure is fine in practice. Execution is up for debate.

The problem here let’s say a new smaller live service game comes out like an Anthem or Babylon’s Fall and is actually good… it’ll come out at full retail price because it must to pay for development and will live or die on a sustaining and earning a playerbase. This is an entry price of 100+ vs 0$ for a f2p BR. It’s terrible favoritism and bad for other prospects in the online space.

And PS plus is a discount subscription service. You are under the impression every game released will only be thru subscriptions models. Irrelevant and incorrect. It has provided these hardware makers with a new revenue streams however and I would like to think it makes their older models for subs to access online play further obsolete.

 

[Hezekiah]

NPD is nowhere near an accurate snapshot of the marketplace and what people actually play at this point or even spend their money on. Lack of digital, dlc revenues, and LOL Fortnite sold zero copies.

Madden has fallen extremely hard and is nowhere near as relevant as it was 20 years ago. I’m not saying it’s not popular but it’s out of the conversation for industry shakers at this point. Top 20 game maybe. No longer anywhere near the top spot it once fought CoD and GtA over.

NBA 2K on the other hand absolutely dominates the sports genre in the US. FIFA is (was - EA lost FIFA) probably EA’s strongest globally.

Vanguard sold huge too in the last year… the previous years’ Cold War had a stronger playerbase.

Sales become less relevant with online games who live or die on actually sustaining a playerbase.

I'm not talking about DLC / revenue Vs Fortnite though, the point I'm making is that every year lots and lots of people are ponying up money to buy Madden. Hence it's still popular. I haven't carried out any studies on its level of popularity over the past 20 years, but it's clear that it's still one of the most popular console games out there.

And that goes to my wider point that many console gamers are happy to pay for online, hence those paywalls won't be going anywhere.

 

[ethomaz]

I agree but I don’t think it will gone… ever.

 

[Vertigo]

What does madden have to do with whether people are willing to play online? It’s why I brought up its popularity. It’s not so high up on the totem poll for online gaming. Sales numbers are not a good indicator for anything of that sort.

Anthem sold 5 million. That’s pretty solid for a new IP honestly at retail. It died due to not being able to sustain playerbase.

It’s not sales numbers are irrelevant in any form but depending on what we’re talking about here they can be a false indicator.

 

[Old Gamer]

Happy to say i haven't spent a cent on PS Plus for years

 

[Vertigo]

I think Plus has been great. I’ve been subbed for years now and got a lot of killer stuff in my library and most which I will never get to. I mean… just got Nioh 2 for this month. That’s great… been meaning to buy it at discount but there it is…

I find it has a ton of value there to be honest.

Im actually leaning towards the paywall being reinstated for f2p games. Heh

 

[peter42O]

I agree but as long as they make a shit ton of money, they aren't going anywhere. The best chance of either being gone is if/when Game Pass hits a certain subscriber count and Microsoft finally eliminates Gold which they should do regardless but nevertheless, other than that, both will stay because they make too much money.

 

[kaluas]

Yes

 

[Hezekiah]

What does madden have to do with whether people are willing to play online? It’s why I brought up its popularity. It’s not so high up on the totem poll for online gaming. Sales numbers are not a good indicator for anything of that sort.

Anthem sold 5 million. That’s pretty solid for a new IP honestly at retail. It died due to not being able to sustain playerbase.

It’s not sales numbers are irrelevant in any form but depending on what we’re talking about here they can be a false indicator.

You don't think a lot of people buy Madden to play it online lol.

I mentioned Madden, FIFA, and CoD as examples, but you seem weirdly fixated on the former for some reason, then started talking about renenue.

Popular games like those make it more likely people will continue to pay for PS Plus and Xbox Live. Pretty simple really.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

The problem with this idea particularly on PS's front is, PS+ Essentials actually provides some real value relative the cost. The free games offered hasn't gone into absolutely dog trash territory like with XBL Gold, and if Sony didn't see the value in keeping Essentials around, they would have just made Extra & Premium their own completely different service like MS did with GamePass (and then have the problem of driving subscribers to it away from the old service and potentially needing to spend huge amounts of cash to try adding value, or taking big revenue cuts on subs through promotional deals, discounts etc. basically all the things we're seeing with GamePass ATM).

I agree with you on the idea that something has to be done with the online paywall on consoles for games that are getting PC ports without that paywall, but rather than getting rid of PS+ Essentials altogether, Sony could do an ad-based model that's opt-in where adverts customers choose to do give them some kind of points applicable to lower costs on paying for the service. Any offers the customer actually takes up in full (i.e customer gets an advert for some gaming t-shirt, they opt-in and get X points worth $0.05 just for interacting with the ad, but maybe they get $0.50 off the monthly sub cost for buying the shirt, stuff like that) gets them more off the sub cost.

They'd have to implement a system where you can do but so many opt-in offers in a period of time but otherwise those are the only ads you'd have to deal with on the ad-based model. I don't if they could do something like that for those paying annually, but some combination of that and redeeming PS+ Reward points to lower cost on whatever sub plan a person's on could be possible.

For XBL Gold it's trickier because whatever MS does for that doesn't actually do anything for GamePass; they could go ad-based similarly to what I mentioned above, but then they'd have to do something like that for GamePass too. It's probably best they just cut or rebrand XBL Gold altogether into a new tier of GamePass and adjust prices around that for the other tiers.

The only way an ad-based model would work IMHO is if it's opt-in for the customer and it's structured so that they can get some type of credit applied to their regular subscription cost. However that doesn't have to limit the amount of companies a platform holder can work with or products they can use (they can nest adverts for other products from same or related companies (companies subsidiary to a parent company) in a single advert), and they can find a balance between # of ads and the payout rate for the ads.