Concord budget could have exceeded 400 million, according to Lords of Gaming Research

ToTTenTranz

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https://www.probablymonsters.com/. They have 2 other studios supposedly. Named Battle Barge and Hidden Grove. And thats after these teams.
“ProbablyMonsters’ Cauldron team is developing a single-player, adventure-driven game that it says will evolve with and around the player. The company’s third team, an RPG-focused studio, is developing a next-gen open world co-op experience that will bring players together.”

Maybe they tanked and made 2 new teams. Or changed names. Either way the investment never says its all for Concord and Firewalk and that Sony has paid those amounts.

Two other studios that have nothing to show so far, not even concept art. News about layoffs from a year ago and a trip to recent Glassdoor reviews show these projects might have been cancelled.



And if people want to include the price of buying the entire studio into the game thats on them.
They purchased Firewalk to make games for them in the future, not just 1 game. If it doesnt work out thats a bust, but that doesnt mean the game cost 250 million more to develop in the reality of actual game developement cost for Concord


If acquiring a studio that only ever worked on one unreleased game at the time of acquisition doesn't count for investment in that game, what does?
How do you think a game's cost is calculated, and how do you think the developer's sale price was calculated?
 

ethomaz

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If acquiring a studio that only ever worked on one unreleased game at the time of acquisition doesn't count for investment in that game, what does?
How do you think a game's cost is calculated, and how do you think the developer's sale price was calculated?
I understood now.
You have no ideia of what you are talking about.
 

akira__

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The trolling started with pointing out Concord was a massive flop, but everyone agrees that it was a failure at every level. And Sony ponies dont cap for playstation, So trolling failed.

Now we have these ridiculous takes where counting is done per 100 million, and people don't even understand acquisition versus development costs. Nor that funding round with investers is not only playstation. They're just making outlandish claims to get a reaction.

Concord flopped, becoming PlayStation's biggest failure yet. We currently don't know all the details, but we do know that pushing these outlandish claims just make you look silly.

> Concord was reportedly in development for eight years, at a cost of an estimated $100m+. Sony bought its maker Firewalk Studios in 2023 for an undisclosed sum. It was one of several acquisitions of live-service game developers made in the past few years, as the PlayStation 5 platform holder bet big on long-tail multiplayer games.

 

ToTTenTranz

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Concord was reportedly in development for eight years, at a cost of an estimated $100m+

$100M is probably less than one year of salaries of a 160 person studio in Bellevue.
This isn't a studio located in Poland or Croatia where senior software devs get less than $70k, it's in one of USA's most expensive cities.



and people don't even understand acquisition versus development costs.
Do explain the difference between investment into a game and investment into a studio that only ever worked into one unreleased game.

What other assets - non attributable to that same game - does that studio have, that provide value to the acquisition?
Office space? No, all these companies work on rentals. Render servers? Perhaps, assuming the render isn't done through a cloud service which is what is more often used, especially in a startup. Lifetime software licenses are also a thing of the past, as everything works through annual licenses now so those aren't assets either.

People's workstations? Ok, assume $8k worth of workstation hardware per each of the 160 employees and you get short of $1.3M and these are amortizations so Sony wouldn't even pay the full cost of that during the acquisition. Let's be generous and assume $1M for this.

Do you think Firewalk developed a super elaborate backend online match+play system that Sony was going to use throughout their other product stacks? If so then Sony is really stupid because 2 years ago they paid no less than $3.7B for Bungie. More likely, they got Bungie's backend and adapted it to work on Concord.
MoCap was definitely a contract as well. Not even big studios have their own mocap studio rooms, let alone a startup.

So, what exactly is adding to the startup's acquisition value, other than the assets they developed for Concord and $1M for workstation hardware?
 

Danja

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The way this person continues to spew BS regarding this game needs to be studied. FireWalk also had access to Sucker Punch Mocap studio as well,

Sony has a Mocap studio in Santa Monica (Sony Visual Arts Mocap) that any PlayStation Studio can use once they are making a PlayStation production, you're delusional if you think Sony studios are racking up huge bills for Macap in this day and age.

They also allow 3rd party studios to use this Mocap stage once they have some sorta deal or marketing in place such as Capcom, Death Stranding even EA got access to it for Star Wars.
 
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akira__

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Just stop being silly, you're quoting a newspaper as if I made the statement.

And clearly math is isn't your strongest point.
$100M is probably less than one year of salaries of a 160 person studio in Bellevue.

100.000.000 ÷ 160 = 625,000

They are not on average making north of 625k per year.
 
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ToTTenTranz

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Just stop being silly, you're quoting a newspaper as if I made the statement.

You didn't use quotes.




And clearly math is isn't your strongest point.

100.000.000 ÷ 160 = 625,000

They are not on average making north of 625k per year.
You're right, I don't know how I got to that number, was probably doing different calculations at the time.
$100M does pay probably 4 years of salaries on Concord. Last year and a half was probably some $40M, without subcontracts.


FireWalk also had access to Sucker Punch Mocap studio as well,

Sony has a Mocap studio in Santa Monica (Sony Visual Arts Mocap) that any PlayStation Studio can use once they are making a PlayStation production, you're delusional if you think Sony studios are racking up huge bills for Macap in this day and age.

They also allow 3rd party studios to use this Mocap stage once they have some sorta deal or marketing in place such as Capcom, Death Stranding even EA got access to it for Star Wars.

So Firewalk doesn't own a MoCap studio, hence that doesn't take part in the assets that would increase value to the acquisition.

Thanks for making my point.
 
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Danja

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You didn't use quotes.





You're right, I don't know how I got to that number, was probably doing different calculations at the time.
$100M does pay probably 4 years of salaries on Concord. Last year and a half was probably some $40M, without subcontracts.




So Firewalk doesn't own a MoCap studio, hence that doesn't take part in the assets that would increase value to the acquisition.

Thanks for making my point.
Ah yes, a start up studio who at one point was working out of a friend's attic would eventually have their own Mocap studio... When even big publishers don't have this luxury. Wheww! You got us there 🤣

But If you wanna play dense, my comment was clearly implying their cinematics weren't as costly you love to point out in your crutch arguments
 
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Men_in_Boxes

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$100M is probably less than one year of salaries of a 160 person studio in Bellevue.
This isn't a studio located in Poland or Croatia where senior software devs get less than $70k, it's in one of USA's most expensive cities.
Now go do the budgets for Naughty Dog and Insomniac who are also located in expensive Californian cities.

But make sure you factor in their longer dev times, more employees, and vastly bigger marketing budgets.
 

ToTTenTranz

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Ah yes, a start up studio who at one point was working out of a friend's attic would eventually have their own Mocap studio... When even big publishers don't have this luxury. Wheww! You got us there 🤣

Yes. Thank you again for making my point.

MoCap was definitely a contract as well. Not even big studios have their own mocap studio rooms, let alone a startup.




But If you wanna play dense, my comment wa clearly implying their cinematics weren't as costly you love to point out in your crutch arguments
Where did I mention the cinematics in my "crutch" arguments?
 

Danja

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Yes. Thank you again for making my point.







Where did I mention the cinematics in my "crutch" arguments?
You have no point! Other than being ridiculous disingenuous, expecting a studio like FireWalk to have a Mocap studio when not even the likes of Kojima does lol. FireWalk had access to Sony Mocap from the very start whenever they needed to start doing basic Mocap.... So there was never a Mocap contract like you claimed. Sony owns two Mocap stages on the West Coast... One in Bellevue and the other in Santa Monica

You didn't mention cinematics in this thread but I've seen you and other use it as a crutch to inflate their supposed production cost.
 

ethomaz

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$100M is probably less than one year of salaries of a 160 person studio in Bellevue.
This isn't a studio located in Poland or Croatia where senior software devs get less than $70k, it's in one of USA's most expensive cities.
You just forget that most of time only 12 guys were working on Concord lol
And you have no ideia how much was payed in salaries.

Plus $100m could pay a year of salary for like 2000 employees lol
$100m could pay 160 employees work for 10 years or more.

Can you put any reliable point to the discussion?
 

ethomaz

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I found @ToTTenTranz sources...

image-2024-10-15-122155144.png


4000 employess... $800 million budget... no wonder lol
 
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ToTTenTranz

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You have no point! Other than being ridiculous disingenuous, expecting a studio like FireWalk to have a Mocap studio when not even the likes of Kojima does lol. FireWalk had access to Sony Mocap from the very start whenever they needed to start doing basic Mocap.... So there was never a Mocap contract like you claimed. Sony owns two Mocap stages on the West Coast... One in Bellevue and the other in Santa Monica

Funny thing is I said from the start they don't have a MoCap studio as an asset that would increase the value of the acquisition, further proving that the acquisition is exclusively comprised of investment into the game and not tools/assets that have value for other games.


But you haven't quite grasped that you're helping my argument, and at this point I doubt you ever will.



So there was never a Mocap contract like you claimed. Sony owns two Mocap stages on the West Coast... One in Bellevue and the other in Santa Monica
And you think the people there work for free so it doesn't count for the game's cost to Sony?
 

Danja

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Funny thing is I said from the start they don't have a MoCap studio as an asset that would increase the value of the acquisition, further proving that the acquisition is exclusively comprised of investment into the game and not tools/assets that have value for other games.


But you haven't quite grasped that you're helping my argument, and at this point I doubt you ever will.




And you think the people there work for free so it doesn't count for the game's cost to Sony?
How am I aiding your argument when you're the one who created a whole fraudulent argument about Mocap assets fully well knowing literally no studios comes with Mocap assets... Who are you trying to fool with this weak bluff argument?

So as I said there was no Mocap contract since Sony owns their own studio in the very state and city FireWalk is located in then lol.

Concord was not a very heavy cinematic game, which makes this even funnier
 
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ToTTenTranz

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you're the one who created a whole fraudulent argument about Mocap assets fully well knowing literally no studios comes with Mocap assets... Who are you trying to fool with this weak bluff argument?

LOL are you okay? That is exactly what I wrote:

Not even big studios have their own mocap studio rooms, let alone a startup.


Your ridiculous urgency to dismiss my arguments are making you hallucinate shit.
Go to sleep dude.
 
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ToTTenTranz

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Concord was not a very heavy cinematic game, which makes this even funnier

Imagine being this ridiculous.




During our first week and every week after, we’ll be premiering our weekly cinematic vignettes in-game. These brief cinematics expand upon the characters and the universe of Concord. We can’t wait for you to learn more about the Crew of the North Star, their journey, and of course their tidy ship in the coming weeks.
 

Danja

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LOL are you okay? That is exactly what I wrote:




Your ridiculous urgency to dismiss my arguments are making you hallucinate shit.
Go to sleep dude.
I guess you dunno what a disingenuous argument means
 

Danja

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Boswollox

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Acquisition costs doesn't come from development costs... it is a different costs in a company.
The company acquired becomes a new asset.
That's true. I'm only saying that the people claiming it cost 400 mil for concord are including the cost of buying the studio, they're rightly or wrongly inflating the cost of concord.

I wanted to add a bit of reasoning to why they came to that conclusion