Not much. The 12 channels were a cost efficient way to parallelize flash chips for read speed.
Dave2D] NEW Sony PS5 "Slim" - Teardown + Thoughts and other tear down videos.
- Thread starter Gamernyc78
- Start date
Moving to SD cards is hot garbage. It incentivise making smaller games, which means more lossy compression on all kinds of assets (lossy audio, low quality JPGs like textures, more repetition of assets to save space) probably scoping as well. Fit TLoU 3 on the 4gb cart to save a few box (said with the menacing voice of the MBA guy).
Just look at what happened with the n64.
Yeah next gen is going to be 200gb games. They'll go all digital before SD.
D
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126 GB flash "sd cards" will have the overwhelming majority of games covered, including Sony's top lookers. It's the bloated, unoptimized messes from certain third party devs that ever go beyond 126 gb and you can point them with a finger since they stick out and become community outrage. Those games are by and large not the majority of the games but instead the 1% minority. And again, with sd-card scalability you can do a 256 gb, or even 1 TB flash memory card. That's the benefit of flash memory, as opposed to hitting a wall and having multiple Blu-Ray dics - say like Cyberpunk. We also know that due to the limits in scalability for Blu-Ray beyond a certain size, some companies just decide to ship the game in physical format split in two chunks, one part included in disc and another to be downloaded online (thus defeating the whole idea of physical ownership). There is no comparison analysis where Blue-Ray today comes out on top tech wise vs. flash memory cards - NONE. The only pro of Blue-Ray is a cost argument, at the expense of every other con - visible ones at that too.
Your argument is also centered around some dumb assumption that in a hypothetical world where Sony's PS6 memory cards exist somehow these cards are going to be Switch sized in the 32 GB or 64GB max range. To even consider this as an argumentative starting point is bonkers to me. If Sony goes the way of flash memory cards, it will do so for the benefits in form factor savings for hardware manufacturing and storage scalability - which literally destroys that assumption. The size standard will take current video game size averages into account as well as future needs. Sony has ample data on it to get it right...better data that we will ever have.
The con is clear - initial upfront cost until the third party devs adjust and economies of scale catch up. And the adjusting process will be rather quick considering Nintendo is already on board. When the main platform for third party sales - PlayStation - makes the switch to flash-sd-like memory cards, sooner or later pricing and economies of scale will make these conversations at starting point 0 seem a total waste of time. Adding another multi-million consumer product to the flash memory card business, on top of others from other segments like phones, cameras etc... will naturally, lower pricing even more.
The only player that will not be taking part in this convo in any way shape or form will be MS and Xbox.... who will be phasing out physical all together this very generation with their Series X revision.
Btw, sd cards in this context is just a plug-in for illustration purposes of what's possible. SD cards are the most common standard for flash memory cards in consumer electronics (phones, cameras etc). Sony will obviously come out with their own proprietary memory sticks - like the VITA. Nintendo's memory cards are also "proprietary". They're all just flash memory cards with a twist to save on costs with the suppliers or serve any particular software-hardware communication need/DRM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_Stick
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yes, obviously... but I was weighting SD cards vs optical media.
Interesting, but if the price/GB is not right I don't know why they would bother even looking into this.
The argument is not about what actual size a game is or how big a memory card COULD be. This is about the bigger cards being more expensive than the smaller one.
Could they include a port where people plug cards on every console next gen? Sure, maybe, I guess... but if cards are more expensive/GB than blueray discs I don't see a point, the media is only used to ever copy the games to the SSD then it's used as a DRM key, so the specific form factor of the media is irrelevant.
Would they keep distributing physical media for a smaller and smaller portion of their audience? This is the question and the answer is it depends how big or small the group of people is.
D
Deleted member 223
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It boils down to this:
The group of people that consume physical is still a significant portion of the market even if everything is being done effort wise by certain companies with their policies to kill it - for their benefit. I still think physical media support is part of the cultural realm of consoles and Sony should seek to maintain and keep that. That very culture prevents, in part with other competitive efforts, the drive by bigger pocketed competitors to out-muscle Sony and Nintendo. It would be a mistake to go all-in on digital into the culture-less realm where the likes of Microsoft, Amazon, Google (and add Valve to the mix) have all the competitive advantages imaginable. In a culture-less environment it's a race to bottom where the bigger pocket more often than not wins. Bottomline: "People like to own things" - that is exploitable in a business sense. Sony with the PS4 launch was able to exploit this to Microsoft's detriment when MS tried to push their physical online-DRM with the Xbox one. For Sony and SIE to forget this part of their history would be, imo, a monumental mistake. Physical media support is a strength, not a weakness - specially if nourished as a competitive tool. Just need the right business person in leadership positions that understand this - unfortunately not all do or some simply differ in opinions.
This little short encompasses it:
How about memory lane:
What's Xbox "culture"? Astroturfers online and social media shills like Tim Dog, Colt, Jez, Tom Warren and all the other brand "ambassadors". Collectible controllers? Please. There is a reason it's a declining brand that has overstayed its welcome for a generation already and a bleeding in the billions venture with no end in sight to that black hole. And that is just a simple representation of what it takes to keep afloat a losing business venture that's rejected by the majority of the market. MS simply refuses to tap out by roiding itself figuratively speaking at every smack. Point: Product culture matters.
But more to the efforts being done to kill physical....
You have to ask yourself if future Xbox consumers chose to be all-digital or did Microsoft by selling digital-only consoles made the choice for them in an underhanded manner. A rhetorical - MS made the choice for them in an under-handed manner. Complex argument to have with contrarians however. For you could make the case that every consumer choosing a digital-only device made the choice knowing full well the alternatives. It doesn't work quite that way in the real world. If that was the case Xbox consoles wouldn't sell a single console compared to the more appealing PlayStation ecosystem (at least the splits would be twice what they are today - 6:1, 8:1 even in the U.S). Consumers don't always possess all the information when making purchasing decisions and more often than not settle for what's in front of them. Microsoft exploits this well, and that is how they operate - typical mindset of a monopolist which dictates to consumers the state of play - and not the other way around.
- Disc drive consoles are more costly to manufacture, ship and service (warranty) than a console with a flash memory card reader. A disc-less console provides more design options for a more aesthetically pleasing product. Flash memory card readers make digital-only skus and physical-only sku's extinct - you only need a single sku as pricing is trivial and ideal form factor suffers little if anything at all.
- Blu-Ray discs are order of magnitude cheaper than flash memory cards. (Price/GB equation).
The group of people that consume physical is still a significant portion of the market even if everything is being done effort wise by certain companies with their policies to kill it - for their benefit. I still think physical media support is part of the cultural realm of consoles and Sony should seek to maintain and keep that. That very culture prevents, in part with other competitive efforts, the drive by bigger pocketed competitors to out-muscle Sony and Nintendo. It would be a mistake to go all-in on digital into the culture-less realm where the likes of Microsoft, Amazon, Google (and add Valve to the mix) have all the competitive advantages imaginable. In a culture-less environment it's a race to bottom where the bigger pocket more often than not wins. Bottomline: "People like to own things" - that is exploitable in a business sense. Sony with the PS4 launch was able to exploit this to Microsoft's detriment when MS tried to push their physical online-DRM with the Xbox one. For Sony and SIE to forget this part of their history would be, imo, a monumental mistake. Physical media support is a strength, not a weakness - specially if nourished as a competitive tool. Just need the right business person in leadership positions that understand this - unfortunately not all do or some simply differ in opinions.
This little short encompasses it:
How about memory lane:
What's Xbox "culture"? Astroturfers online and social media shills like Tim Dog, Colt, Jez, Tom Warren and all the other brand "ambassadors". Collectible controllers? Please. There is a reason it's a declining brand that has overstayed its welcome for a generation already and a bleeding in the billions venture with no end in sight to that black hole. And that is just a simple representation of what it takes to keep afloat a losing business venture that's rejected by the majority of the market. MS simply refuses to tap out by roiding itself figuratively speaking at every smack. Point: Product culture matters.
But more to the efforts being done to kill physical....
You have to ask yourself if future Xbox consumers chose to be all-digital or did Microsoft by selling digital-only consoles made the choice for them in an underhanded manner. A rhetorical - MS made the choice for them in an under-handed manner. Complex argument to have with contrarians however. For you could make the case that every consumer choosing a digital-only device made the choice knowing full well the alternatives. It doesn't work quite that way in the real world. If that was the case Xbox consoles wouldn't sell a single console compared to the more appealing PlayStation ecosystem (at least the splits would be twice what they are today - 6:1, 8:1 even in the U.S). Consumers don't always possess all the information when making purchasing decisions and more often than not settle for what's in front of them. Microsoft exploits this well, and that is how they operate - typical mindset of a monopolist which dictates to consumers the state of play - and not the other way around.
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I have just one real question regarding the form of this model... why not put matte black plates on it as standard and PERHAPS make it a bit more squared off looking?
I think the black plates alone would have resulted in a lot of demand.
Now people have to wait for Sony to release plates and who knows if they will... we get no plates here in Ireland, certainly no official ones, despite being beside the UK.
I think the black plates alone would have resulted in a lot of demand.
Now people have to wait for Sony to release plates and who knows if they will... we get no plates here in Ireland, certainly no official ones, despite being beside the UK.
You still need a damn side the blade, still too hard for consumer.
It is easier to shell out money to buy a new console with BD drive attached.
-Tom Warren maybe
In the future probably:
who even needs BD drive and physical games, it is too hard for consumer to press a button and insert the disc in.
All jokes aside the decision to have mismatched finish on the slim is really... baffling? Like how do you go in with your design team and come up with that, and then like the x number of layers of approvals that that has to go through all signed off?I'm taking this to corporate!
It’s a good point, but Pros tend to use the design language of the revisions that preceded them, at least going by the one time it’s happened.
D
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Pricing is a complex topic for that. There is more than meets the eye there in my opinion for whichever position you take on this topic.This is incorrect, the consoles that have used blu ray drives have all had official discounts. PS3, PS4, PS5, XB1, and XSX, ps3/ps4/xb1 especially have had deep discounts for as low as $200. The PS5 was just $50 off a few months ago. Meanwhile, the Switch is 6 years old and has never had any official discount and still costs as much as a PS4 pro.
Nintendo’s game pricing strategy definitely is partly influenced by their cartridges. Blu ray discs can be bought for 50 cents for consumers, companies can buy them whole sale for much cheaper. Nintendo blank cartridges probably range from $5-$10, that’s 10x more. Even 3rd party companies sometimes have to charge extra for Switch releases just because they’re more expensive to produce. There’s zero benefit for the consumer in switching from blu ray to cartridges
Why Nintendo Switch games are ending up more expensive
Last week we reported that Rime, the puzzle adventure game due out in May, is £10 more expensive on Nintendo Switch tha…www.eurogamer.net
128 gigs
128 gigs sd card for $10, with read/write capacity. A lot depends on economies of scale, suppliers in question, cost of standard solution chosen as well as hardware specific needs. That is to say, only Sony and their engineers, suppliers/distributors will be able to accurately estimate price per gig and a solution for third party devs that scale with units that is affordable and doesn't break bank - which translates to consumer pricing. I would wager Sony to be more cost-efficient than Nintendo simply due to experience in the market itself making a standard, even if memory stick lost out to secure digital. Also because PlayStation is the market leader for third party game sales, and thus able to exploit that with suppliers. I'm also certain that with the Switch 2, riding on the success of the Switch, Nintendo will also be able to get pricing down.
Pretty sure Sony can get 128 gigs, which will cover 99% of games out there on the PS5 for significantly less than $10. As for hardware cost itself, I completely disagree there, and I can say with confidence that a console with a disc drive is more costly to produce, service (warranty) and ship than a console with a flash memory card reader - not to mention form factor constraints. The cost equation for hardware is not close between the two - flash wins out. Nintendo keeping the price of the Switch stagnant and firm is a company decision to maintain margins or increase margins as cost of manufacturing for the Switch goes down. It's one of the many reasons why, out of the big 3, they have the biggest profit margins of all. That has nothing to do with a flash memory card reader vs. optical Blue-Ray drive discussion. A Flash memory card reader is literally some lane pins, an opening and a controller. It's the software side that makes Blu-Ray extremely attractive, not the bulkly optical drive which is the actual con. Funny thing, according to ABK leaks, MS's Xbox Series X revision without the disc drive is slated to sell for current MSRP - all about those profit margins - always.
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OP
OP
Love how modern vintage moron complains about the disc registration and lack of a die shrink, when disc registration is mandated by law in the US and a die shrink has already occurred.