DF Richard Leadbetter: PS5 Pro vs PC value comparisons are less important than a potentially bleak future for console pricing

[ToTTenTranz]

Great read from Richard Leadbetter. A response to all the articles and discussion that appeared from his discussion with Destin.

PS5 Pro vs PC value comparisons are less important than a potentially bleak future for console pricing​

Is the latest Sony console so overpriced that a PC may actually offer more for your money? From my perspective, there are a couple of ways you can look at this. Firstly, are the costs of console gaming rising so much that a gaming PC is no longer such an expensive alternative? That's a legitimate concern and worth some discussion. However, the actual argument seems to be that potential Pro buyers should opt for a PC instead and for me, that's a less plausible idea.

The more you look at the latter argument, the less it makes sense. It's unlikely that PS5 Pro will be anyone's first console at that price - it's a premium version of the existing machine and I'd put money on the lion's share of its audience currently owning a standard PlayStation 5 and upgrading for a better machine.

I'd also suggest that while both PC and PS5 Pro play games - often the same games - the ownership experience is quite different. The value comparisons typically involve building the PC, shopping around for the best prices. It's an exercise that automatically locks out a good proportion of the audience who may not feel confident in component selection or actually building the system. Then there are the complications of failing parts and myriad warranties.

The standard PS5 with a disc drive launched with a $100 premium over the outgoing PlayStation 4 Pro - which certainly raises awkward questions about future console pricing if the same thing holds true for PS6 vs PS5 Pro. I don't think any platform holder can go into the tenth generation with Pro-level sticker prices and if they do, we could be looking at a repeat - or worse - of the PlayStation 3 launch disaster.

The important snippets to take from the full article:

- PCs and consoles are still very different experiences.

- Thinking of a PC to replace a PS5 Pro doesn't make sense for people who only use consoles. Yet.

- Though it's remarkable how the PS5 Pro vs. equivalent gaming PC are getting so close in cost.

- There's a good chance many of the enthusiasts who would buy a PS5 Pro already own a gaming PC.

- The rapid increase in price across generations (PS4 Pro -> PS5 -> PS5 Pro -> PS6?) doesn't seem sustainable for the console market.

- If the base PS6 comes at $800 / 950€, then a lot more people will probably be looking at PCs, considering the savings in software cost.

- Valve already knows how to make appealing hardware+software for gaming PCs and SteamOS will inevitably migrate to other PC hardware. Microsoft is treading behind as they always to with everything, but it doesn't mean they won't ever do it right (which they might with the next Xbox).

 

[Entropi]

Another one!!

 

[Johnic]

Ahh, the astroturfing campaign begins. But no issues with GPU pricing. No, it's only the console business with the potential issues because MS failed at it.

We need an industry wide purge of gaming media.

 

[Fenton]

 

[ToTTenTranz]

But no issues with GPU pricing.

There are obvious issues with GPU pricing which undoubtedly took part in the PS5 Pro's price decision.

 

[Landiri]

Ahh, the astroturfing campaign begins. But no issues with GPU pricing. No, it's only the console business with the potential issues because MS failed at it.

We need an industry wide purge of gaming media.

Pc Gamers claim since 2017 that "high" GPU prices won't sell...

Now they are 2-3 times higher!

 

[Systemshock2023]

Even if a console was more expensive than a comparable PC people would still buy it. The average console user looks for simplicity and standardization. I think they would pay an extra for that. Not sure how much.

While PC users look for the opposite, control, flexibility and a tailor made gaming experience.

And that's completely fine.

 

[uyoung1989]

Personally I like Sony’s aggressive approach with the Pro. Better this than a half-assed mid-gen refresh that is only slightly better. As for the price, I suggest start whining when the actual PS6 price reveals.

 

[Evilnemesis8]

Not surprised by this take by Richard, I remember that when it first dropped, he pointed out that any consoles past a certain price point(I forgot what it was) saw strong diminishing returns on sales volume. Heck, even with the PS5, we're seeing that many people that buy consoles are quite price sensitive, which makes sense, it's the cheapest way to play games upfront.

I tend to agree, to a degree. In the sense that PS5 PRO is till probably "fine" because it is an enthusiast version of a console for that market.

But there's definitely going to be some concerns when it comes to HD console pricings for the PS6. Because I'm a dumb dude online, I don't have any solution to offer. But I'm sure people at Sony and elsewhere have already been doing exploratory work on how to best reduce the price and build a compelling machine for people to ditch the PS5 for.

Personally I like Sony’s aggressive approach with the Pro. Better this than a half-assed mid-gen refresh that is only slightly better. As for the price, I suggest start whining when the actual PS6 price reveals.

Yeah, the PS5 PRO is a potential "early warning sign" depending on how it does past the initial launch for the PS6.

 

[Yurinka]

- If the base PS6 comes at $800 / 950€, then a lot more people will probably be looking at PCs, considering the savings in software cost.

I think the PS6 Pro might be priced like that, but not the base PS6.

I assume that considering the huge inflation that there will be from 2020 to 2027/2028, the base PS6 will cost around $100 more than the base PS5, but inflation adjusted base PS6 will be cheaper than base PS5.

Ahh, the astroturfing campaign begins. But no issues with GPU pricing.

The exactly same haters -including Sony "fans"- who complain about PS5 Pro being too expensive would be complaining about PS5 Pro being a half assed upgrade if pricing would be way more similar to base PS5.

 

[Landiri]

Yeah, the PS5 PRO is a potential "early warning sign" depending on how it does past the initial launch for the PS6.

It is not.

They need a broad user base to make money.

Selling only 10 Million PS6 Consoles would bankrupt them.

 

[arvfab]

But no issues with GPU pricing

Well they recover the costs thanks to "free" games

 

[MrAss]

I think the PS6 Pro might be priced like that, but not the base PS6.

I assume that considering the huge inflation that there will be from 2020 to 2027/2028, the base PS6 will cost around $100 more than the base PS5, but inflation adjusted base PS6 will be cheaper than base PS5.


The exactly same haters -including Sony "fans"- who complain about PS5 Pro being too expensive would be complaining about PS5 Pro being a half assed upgrade if pricing would be way more similar to base PS5.

People assume PS6 base will be targeting 4K60FPS when in reality it will not

 

[Landiri]

Well they recover the costs thanks to "free" games

Don't you have 100k to drop on your PC/Phone game?

 

[Yurinka]

People assume PS6 base will be targeting 4K60FPS when in reality it will not

It will, I assume that by the PS6 they will have evolved GPU AI hardware and PSSR to the point that upscaling won't be noticiable. I think PS6's PSSR will also feature frame generation and that 120Hz modes and 8K modes will be way more common in PS6 mainly because tvs supporting that will also be more common and will be more affordable for the consoles's hardware.

I also think that there will be a substantial step in RT too, to the point of achieving a proper real time global illumination. With good enough improvements in RT, AI/PSSR and RTGO the big increases in raw horsepower won't be needed, they may even scale back in that front, which would reduce GPU pricings.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

The exactly same haters -including Sony "fans"- who complain about PS5 Pro being too expensive would be complaining about PS5 Pro being a half assed upgrade if pricing would be way more similar to base PS5.

I'm quite curious as to what you think a "half assed upgrade" would be and how that compares to the PS5 Pro.

Of the three mid-gen upgrades we've had, he PS5 Pro is by far the smallest one.

PS4 Pro: 2x wider GPU at 14% higher clocks, CPU at 33% higher clocks, +512MB RAM at the southbridge.

One X: 3.3x wider GPU at 38% higher clocks, +50% RAM amount, CPU at 31% higher clocks.

PS5 Pro: 1.66x wider GPU at apparently same clocks, CPU at 5% higher clocks.



The PS5 Pro shows a good use of smart tech like optimized upscaling and substantial upgrade in RT throughput, but it's really a cost-sensitive upgrade above all.

 

[Entropi]

I forgot the Xbox One X had 12 GB of RAM. Poor XsS, MS treated it like an unwanted red-headed stepchild.

 

[Yurinka]

I'm quite curious as to what you think a "half assed upgrade" would be and how that compares to the PS5 Pro.

Of the three mid-gen upgrades we've had, he PS5 Pro is by far the smallest one.

PS4 Pro: 2x wider GPU at 14% higher clocks, CPU at 33% higher clocks, +512MB RAM at the southbridge.

One X: 3.3x wider GPU at 38% higher clocks, +50% RAM amount, CPU at 31% higher clocks.

PS5 Pro: 1.66x wider GPU at apparently same clocks, CPU at 5% higher clocks.



The PS5 Pro shows a good use of smart tech like optimized upscaling and substantial upgrade in RT throughput, but it's really a cost-sensitive upgrade above all.

I'm ok with with whatever they added to the PS5 Pro: I already knew I wasn't going to buy it, in the same way I didn't buy tht PS4 Pro. I'm prefectly fine with the base PS5 as I was with my launch PS4. But I understand some people wanted a PS4 upgrade in, in the same way that will happen this gen.

I'm wasn't complaining about "half assed upgrade". I was just saying that the Sony haters who are complaining now because PS5 Pro is overpriced/too complain now and would have complained independently of whatever Sony would have done. If Sony would have chosen a smaller hardware upgrade to get a cheaper cost, then these haters (not me) would have complained about being a half assed upgrade. Independently of its specs.

Some people always complain, independently of whatever Sony does. They even keep repeating and believing in lies, such as Sony being collapsing (when they are better than ever), Sony not having games (when they release a dozen this year including multiple GOTY candidates), Sony abandoning SP games (when it's their main focus and release way more than GaaS) or Sony abandoning consoles (when it's their main focus as their execs say and as their numbers in revenue and investment show) and a long etc. Doesn't matter if you show them factual, objective data/numbers that debunk their narrative: they ignore that and keep repeating the lies and believing in them.

 

[Killer_Sakoman]

PS5 pro is almost same price of PS5 in 2020 after adjusting for inflation. It's scary when you think about 2028

Even $699 for PS6 is impossible to achieve, unless they change the name of PS5 pro to PS6 and resell it. PC will also go sky high. So it's impossible to have a PC with comparable price to PS6 in 2028. No way.

 

[AllBizness]

The title of the article gives away it's clear bias against the Pro, not reading.