DF Weekly: If Xbox Series X is more powerful, why do some PS5 games run better?

[Fenton]

So, after a few years of conversations with developers, what's the explanation? How can a less capable machine outperform the more powerful one? As seen recently in our Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree coverage, the frame-rate difference in favour of PS5 is surprising, bearing in mind it's apparently the less capable machine.

We've heard some interesting theories over the years - such as how Xbox Series X's split-memory set-up (560GB/s of bandwidth on 'fast' memory, 336GB/s on 'slow' memory) may be impacting performance, but the number one reason we've heard from developers concerns the nature of Sony's development environment. More than one key triple-A developer tells us that the PlayStation GPU compiler is significantly more efficient than the Microsoft alternative, meaning that there's better utilisation of the graphics hardware. In general, we understand that the lower level API access afforded to PlayStation development means game makers get more from the hardware.

The second most common explanation we've received from developers concerns the nature of the GPU itself. Mark Cerny himself discussed this way back in March 2020 when he revealed the technical specifications of the PlayStation 5. While the console may have fewer compute units than Xbox Series X - 36 vs 52 - the entire GPU runs faster, meaning that certain tasks will complete faster, better suiting certain game engine designs. The extent of this advantage was always an unknown as PS5 operates with a boost clock on both CPU and GPU - maximum clock speeds will be limited by a power limit on the processor.

So, based on our conversations, the combination of a more efficient GPU compiler, lower-level APIs and higher clock speeds allows PlayStation 5 to match or even exceed the outputs of Xbox Series X in some scenarios.

DF Weekly: If Xbox Series X is more powerful, why do some PS5 games run better?

On paper, the Xbox Series X is a considerably more powerful piece of hardware than PlayStation 5, so why are we looking…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[ethomaz]

Man.

Xbots is finally having the reality beating in their faces.
When systems released it was clear which one had more potential to peak.

BTW I will just a shot here....

Sames CPU Arch... single-core running at 4Ghz beats dual-core running 2Ghz in 99.99% of the cases.
Clock increase always give more performance improvements than adding more cores... Intel and AMD only took that path because increasing clock become too hard and silicon shrink that allowed it slowed a lot.

Plus any code can use the max of clock increase without change anything... it is simple.
While more you add cores (parallelism) you have to deal/manage it... to the point that is almost impossible (some games can't use for example 8 cores because they can't find any way to make they code split in more than 5 threads).

In both CPU or GPU clock increase will always triumph over core increase.
For GPU it is even more evident because some part of it don't increase when you have the number of cores increased.... like the whole backend of the GPU... so in that case the only way to increase performance is increasing clock.

And when Eurogamer says "less capable machine" they are lying to their reader.
While in compute processing PS5's GPU is less capable than Series X's GPU there are others parts like pixel fillrate which PS5's CPU is so more stronger... and the whole backend of the GPU runs way faster on PS5 than Series X.
So there is no way to say one machine is less capable than the other.

And at the end MS killed themselves with optimization when they created the GDK that uses the same DevKit for all Xbox development that includes PC, Series X and Series S... basically their API is now full of overhead due abstraction (that is a PC issue with APIs too).

PS5's development APIs are way more close to metal than the so called "close to metal" APIs on PC like Vulkan.

 

[ethomaz]

Maybe some day MS find the tools lost in 2020

 

[Plextorage]

Man.

Xbots is finally having the reality beating in their faces.
When systems released it was clear which one had more potential to peak.

BTW I will just a shot here....

Sames CPU Arch... single-core running at 4Ghz beats dual-core running 2Ghz in 99.99% of the cases.
Clock increase always give more performance improvements than adding more cores... Intel and AMD only took that path because increasing clock become too hard and silicon shrink that allowed it slowed a lot.

Plus any code can use the max of clock increase without change anything... it is simple.
While more you add cores (parallelism) you have to deal/manage it... to the point that is almost impossible (some games can't use for example 8 cores because they can't find any way to make they code split in more than 5 threads).

In both CPU or GPU clock increase will always triumph over core increase.
For GPU it is even more evident because some part of it don't increase when you have the number of cores increased.... like the whole backend of the GPU... so in that case the only way to increase performance is increasing clock.

And when Eurogamer says "less capable machine" they are lying to their reader.
While in compute processing PS5's GPU is less capable than Series X's GPU there are others parts like pixel fillrate which PS5's CPU is so more stronger... and the whole backend of the GPU runs way faster on PS5 than Series X.
So there is no way to say one machine is less capable than the other.

And at the end MS killed themselves with optimization when they created the GDK that uses the same DevKit for all Xbox development that includes PC, Series X and Series S... basically their API is now full of overhead due abstraction (that is a PC issue with APIs too).

PS5's development APIs are way more close to metal than the so called "close to metal" APIs on PC like Vulkan.

Didn't Leadbetter said something about it last year about XSX TFs?

 

[ethomaz]

Didn't Leadbetter said something about it last year about XSX TFs?

Yeap but I find their word very misleading yet.

That claim PS5 is the "less capable machine" and Series X the "most capable machine" like a MS PR "the world most powerful console ever created" that have to be changed to "most powerful Xbox" after the consoles were released lol

PS5 is not the less capable machine... when Digital Foundry understand it maybe they will finally realize TFs is not everything.

But they are too biased for that... even when they accept the reality they still try to make Xbox better than it is denigrating PS5... they keep trying to find something to say they don't understand why in their words "a less capable machine outperform a more capable machine" lol

Since the specs and design was released in 2020 everybody already understood why the PS5 can outperform Series X.
And it was clear that moving forward the difference will become bigger... like in 2020 it was 50/50... in 2023 like 75/25 in PS5 favor... and 2024 most games do better on PS5.

Because now developers are starting to use better the PS5 hardware while you can't do that with Xbox hardware due a series of limitations (GDK, Series S, split memory, etc).

Series X was designed to be a machine similar to PC for developers with it advantages and disadvantages.
PS5 was designed to be a machine specialized on games for a simple platform.

 

[anonpuffs]

So... Basically what they're saying is that the series x isn't more powerful.

Wow, Microsoft marketing is bullshit. news at 11

 

[Draven]

In other words: Cerny is the GOAT and Xbox marketing is a lie.

 

[Kokoloko]

Remember when this boob Gabe said this

Not stronger, but better. And like I always say, don’t put these guys or any of them on a pedestal, they probably no less about gaming than you. Clearly Gabe was wrong lol

 

[Nhomnhom]

2024 and they are still on and on about that? DF just can't let it go, PS5 more than proved itself the superior console at this point in every sense.

 

[voke]

I remember in 2020 when people were melting down over Xbox out playing sony. they had the stronger console (false) gamepass was the future (false) Series S would sell gangbusters (false)

if you're brain was rooted in reality you knew PS was gonna be okay.

 

[mckmas8808]

2024 and they are still on and on about that? DF just can't let it go, PS5 more than proved itself the superior console at this point in every sense.

I'd rather have them say this, then say nothing at all.

 

[Nhomnhom]

If so many games run better on PS5 why wouldn't it be considered the more powerful console to begging? Why does power need to be measured in teraflops instead of real world performance?

I'd rather have them say this, then say nothing at all.

Too little too late, they were a big part of the problem of why so many people were resistant to the idea of the PS5 outperforming the Xbox. They spend years acting all confused and coming up with excuses for Xbox.

 

[ethomaz]

Remember when this boob Gabe said this

Not stronger, but better. And like I always say, don’t put these guys or any of them on a pedestal, they probably no less about gaming than you. Clearly Gabe was wrong lol

It is so weird this interview lol

Because he says he only worked with PC and even so he things Xbox is better without even have any ideia of the two.
It is so biased lol
And it come from a big gaming company... if it was a random twitter... well a lot say only nonsense... but this level of bias from a big company CEO is really a shame.

Why?
Because it is.

He had no argumento to even try to defense his bias.

 

[2spooky5me]

Didn't Leadbetter said something about it last year about XSX TFs?

All of those clowns at DF said/thought it.
Then you had morons like Chris Grannell, Tom Warren, Gabe Newell, DuskGolem, etc. also parroting the same (literal) misinformation.

I'm glad PS didn't bother correcting these s**theads, and let the actual console/games do the talking.

 

[quest4441]

It is so weird this interview lol

Because he says he only worked with PC and even so he things Xbox is better without even have any ideia of the two.
It is so biased lol
And it come from a big gaming company... if it was a random twitter... well a lot say only nonsense... but this level of bias from a big company CEO is really a shame.

Why?
Because it is.

He had no argumento to even try to defense his bias.

He worked for microsoft before starting valve and he did shit on PS3 when it launched so his impression of PS from then onwards is set in stone I guess

 

[Infinity]

Talking about consoles power when their differences are marginal at best...who cares. You don't buy a console because it's more powerful then the comp by a small amount.

 

[ethomaz]

Talking about consoles power when their differences are marginal at best...who cares. You don't buy a console because it's more powerful then the comp by a small amount.

Because Xbots always use the 9TFs argument lol

And if you try to say that to them they will say that it mattered to PS4… indeed it mattered because PS4 was stronger and cheaper plus the difference in power was way bigger.

 

[CrackmanNL]

Don't forget the promises of ''free'' raytracing by Phil and co and Leadbetter saying it would wipe the floor with PS5.
DF has been wrong about everything regarding hardware how it would turn out at the start of the gen, that's why every statement about the Pro they made I look at them with my eyes rolling.

 

[Entropi]

Because the XsX/XsS was put together by the marketing and finance divisions at Xbox.

 

[Entropi]

Remember when this boob Gabe said this

Not stronger, but better. And like I always say, don’t put these guys or any of them on a pedestal, they probably no less about gaming than you. Clearly Gabe was wrong lol

God damn, I thought that guy knew a thing or two about making games.