Digital Foundry claims mid-generation Switch hardware refresh was once planned, but no longer happening and next-gen is next

[John Elden Ring]

source​

Rumors of a more powerful Switch – often dubbed by fans as the Switch Pro – have persisted for years. The thought was that Nintendo would come out with a new piece of hardware that isn’t quite a successor, but would be a step up from what we have now. Presumably this theoretical device would allow for things such as technical improvements when it comes to aspects like frame rate and resolution and perhaps even better visuals.

Digital Foundry’s John Linneman has now weighed in on the situation in the outlet’s latest podcast. After speaking with some developers, he believes Nintendo was at once point toying around with a Switch hardware refresh. However, “that seems to no longer be happening” and the company is apparently pursuing a true successor instead.

Linneman’s full words:

“So I think at one point internally from what I can understand from talking to different developers, is that there was some sort of mid-generation Switch update planned at one point and that seems to be no longer happening. And thus it’s pretty clear that whatever they do next is going to be the actual next-generation hardware. I don’t think it’s going to be 2023.”

Linneman would go on to say that in his view, Nintendo is likely nervous about transitioning to what will come next after Switch given past generations. After the GameCube didn’t do too well, we saw the Wii which sold over 100 million units. However, with Wii U which came next, it was one of Nintendo’s worst-selling systems. The company is now back on top again with Switch which is one of its best-selling consoles ever. There’s been a little bit of a pattern with one system doing well, and then the next one taking a step back.

 

[ethomaz]

Makes sense.

The tech is not there for a refresh even if Nintendo wanted... even so they did the OLED to fill the gap.
Now the tech is moving a bit and the time for a refresh is expired so go for a new hardware all in.

 

[peter42O]

Don't know why Nintendo is worried. Repeat the Switch, make all the games backwards compatible, let users take their Switch library over to Switch 2 and just make the console more powerful and overall better.

 

[Yurinka]

I think that maybe these devs were confused. I think the "next gen" Switch successor will be a Switch with moderately more powerful hardware, the one rumored for a "Switch Pro".

Nintendo would have make it very similar to reduce costs and also make sure they have 100% full BC. Due to the hardware similarities, maybe those devs were confused and thought it was going to be a "Switch Pro" instead of a "Switch 2".

 

[Gamernyc78]

Switch will be the last Nintendo console I get. Bought it day one and it's still like new bcus I rarely want to play it. I wish Nintendo went traditional console and made something on par to the other big two. Get crazy and make a Mario with as always great gameplay but cutting edge graphics, I'd go crazy.

 

[KiryuRealty]

I think the existence of the Switch OLED is evidence that that story is true. Why would anyone put out such an obvious half-step instead of upgrading the guts to go with the nice new screen? Because it’s Nintendo, and they say “Fuck you, the fanboys will buy it anyway and do our damage control for us!”

 

[Satoru]

Makes sense.

The tech is not there for a refresh even if Nintendo wanted... even so they did the OLED to fill the gap.
Now the tech is moving a bit and the time for a refresh is expired so go for a new hardware all in.

The tech is there and it has been leaked to hell and back. This is from earlier this year and has been verified and re-verified plenty of times.



Edit: it's very obvious that the switch pro was the OLED. Probably chip shortages changed the roadmap and they released that half baked console without the spec bump. Switch 2 or whatever it is called is still very much alive and to be released within the next 18 months or so.

 

[ethomaz]

The tech is there and it has been leaked to hell and back. This is from earlier this year and has been verified and re-verified plenty of times.



Edit: it's very obvious that the switch pro was the OLED. Probably chip shortages changed the roadmap and they released that half baked console without the spec bump. Switch 2 or whatever it is called is still very much alive and to be released within the next 18 months or so.

The tech will be there when nVidia had at least one Tegra chip with actual features with at least twice the raw power of Tegra X1 (> 2TFs).

And even with all these “leaks” nVidia never shied anything because the tech is not there.

Why there is no Tegra X1 sucessor even after 7 years? Because they didn’t have the tech to move with a substantial upgrade.

It is not easy to increase processing power maintaining the < 10W power draw. The lithography nodes is not evolving after 16nm with only marketing nodes (10nm, 7nm, 5nm, etc).

You will say “oh but GPUs are evolving”… of course each new release break records of size and power hungry… that is one way to evolve that doesn’t works for mobile chips.

 

[Dr Bass]

Don't know why Nintendo is worried. Repeat the Switch, make all the games backwards compatible, let users take their Switch library over to Switch 2 and just make the console more powerful and overall better.

I agree with this 100%. It seems so obvious, but sometimes Nintendo seems hung up on finding a new "gimmick" when they should understand more than anyone its about the games. Call it the Super Switch. The Switch 2. Whatever. Just keep the successful formula going. Apple is selling the "iPhone 14" for crying out loud.

 

[Satoru]

The tech will be there when nVidia had at least one Tegra chip with actual features with at least twice the raw power of Tegra X1 (> 2TFs).

And even with all these “leaks” nVidia never shied anything because the tech is not there.

Why there is no Tegra X1 sucessor even after 7 years? Because they didn’t have the tech to move with a substantial upgrade.

It is not easy to increase processing power maintaining the < 10W power draw. The lithography nodes is not evolving after 16nm with only marketing nodes (10nm, 7nm, 5nm, etc).

You will say “oh but GPUs are evolving”… of course each new release break records of size and power hungry… that is one way to evolve that doesn’t works for mobile chips.

I'm not sure you know what you're talking about, so I'll just leave this here.

Tegra - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The next switch is most likely something around the T239.

 

[ethomaz]

I'm not sure you know what you're talking about, so I'll just leave this here.

Tegra - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The next switch is most likely something around the T239.

That is exactly my point.
Where is that “T239”?

It is a cut down AGX Orin that is too power hungry for a mobile device? Orin NX at 25W TDP (too high yet) reaches only 1.88TFs at max frequencies (something it won't be used in a possible Switch due heat issues).
Orin Nano is basically a X1.

So what they will cut more to reach lower TDP? That is exactly the point... nVidia is cancelling Tegra over Tegra projects because they can't create something better for like 7 years... I'm hopping they can now for a 2024-2025 release but they didn't show anything yet.

 

[Vertigo]

I agree with this 100%. It seems so obvious, but sometimes Nintendo seems hung up on finding a new "gimmick" when they should understand more than anyone its about the games. Call it the Super Switch. The Switch 2. Whatever. Just keep the successful formula going. Apple is selling the "iPhone 14" for crying out loud.

They don’t seem as gimmick driven as they were for their previous two generations. Switch is pretty straightforward - a handheld with TV out.

I appreciate this direction better. I like that their games are more focused on singular tech instead of spreading their fan base across two devices.

My expectations from Switch 2 are to be a weaker Steamdeck.

However as someone who pretty much hates mobile gaming and handhelds. Please release a home version.

 

[ethomaz]

For when you guys are expecting Switch successor?
I don't think we will get anything next year so maybe 2024? Or peharps when nVidia is "planning" to release new Tegras in 2025 (they announced one in 2021 but it got cancelled after).

 

[rofif]

I doubt switch refresh would do anything... don't think devs would go back and up resolution and stuff.
Was probably a wise move to just do Oled. Keep the parity and do not split the market.
I am not a big fan of mid gen refreshes anyway

 

[Satoru]

That is exactly my point.
Where is that “T239”?

The T239 is more than likely a custom version of the T234 designed for the switch. You probably won't see it outside the new console.

For when you guys are expecting Switch successor?
I don't think we will get anything next year so maybe 2024? Or peharps when nVidia is "planning" to release new Tegras in 2025 (they announced one in 2021 but it got cancelled after).

The new "Tegra" is the Orin which was announced in 2018. They announced the Aran in 2021 and cancelled it in detriment of the Thor, which will release in 2025.

The new Nintendo console will be powered by the Orin, which is way more powerful than the old Tegra X1. I guesstimate anywhere between mid to late 2023 or Q1 2024 for it's release.

 

[Satoru]

To add upon the above: the Tegra X2 successors are Xavier (already in the market), the Orin (being produced) and Thor (2025).

 

[ethomaz]

To add upon the above: the Tegra X2 successors are Xavier (already in the market), the Orin (being produced) and Thor (2025).

X2 is basically X1 with automotive market specialized ARM CPU.

 

[ethomaz]

The T239 is more than likely a custom version of the T234 designed for the switch. You probably won't see it outside the new console.



The new "Tegra" is the Orin which was announced in 2018. They announced the Aran in 2021 and cancelled it in detriment of the Thor, which will release in 2025.

The new Nintendo console will be powered by the Orin, which is way more powerful than the old Tegra X1. I guesstimate anywhere between mid to late 2023 or Q1 2024 for it's release.

Orin is not the new Tegra X1 sucessor.

It is too big (455mm2) and too power hungry... I will be really surprise if Nintendo uses anything from Orin.
Orin NX (the cut down Orin) is still too power hungry and big for a Portable console... and if they choose it at lower frequency it won't reach the power that people are expecting for a Switch 2 (it won't even reach SteamDeck potential).

Now if you start to cut down Orin even more you will enter in the X1 power level again that I won't believe Nintendo will do that.... the suppose Orin Nano is around X1 power with new Ampere features.

Aran was cancelled because tech was not there... let's see what Thor is.

There is really no option for Switch 2 even after 7 years... the hopes is that nVidia is cooking something new but that is to be announced yet.

 

[Satoru]

Orin is not the new Tegra X1 sucessor.

It is too big (455mm2) and too power hungry... I will be really surprise if Nintendo uses anything from Orin.
Orin NX (the cut down Orin) is still too power hungry and big for a Portable console... and if they choose it at lower frequency it won't reach the power that people are expecting for a Switch 2 (it won't even reach SteamDeck potential).

Now if you start to cut down Orin even more you will enter in the X1 power level again that I won't believe Nintendo will do that.... the suppose Orin Nano is around X1 power with new Ampere features.

Aran was cancelled because tech was not there... let's see what Thor is.

There is really no option for Switch 2 even after 7 years... the hopes is that nVidia is cooking something new but that is to be announced yet.

Please stop ignoring specifications / actual data.

The X1 has a TDP of 15w, the X1+ on the switch uses about half. The Orin scales from 5w all the way up to 60w TDP. The new console is probably a custom 8 core SOC, so we can safely bet it will be powered by the Orin NX 16GB which scales between 10 to 25w. With their customisation they can have it at or below the 10w TDP.

They can also go with the hexacore Orin Nano whose TDP scales between 7 and 15 watts, but my bet is that they'll downclock the 16GB Orin NX and remove half the ram pool, which should lower TDP as well.

Tegra - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

There have been plenty of leaks for this SOC, including firmware nomenclature, which support all of the above.

 

[BigMclargeHuge]

They don’t seem as gimmick driven as they were for their previous two generations. Switch is pretty straightforward - a handheld with TV out.

I appreciate this direction better. I like that their games are more focused on singular tech instead of spreading their fan base across two devices.

My expectations from Switch 2 are to be a weaker Steamdeck.

However as someone who pretty much hates mobile gaming and handhelds. Please release a home version.

Considering how little I use the switch's portability , if nintendos next system had a version that lacked portability but was maybe a little cheaper, I'd get that version.