For the first time PlayStation Trophies will be available on PC.

[mibu no ookami]

@mibu no ookami has a talent of being wrong about almost everything. The money for PlayStation was never in 1st party games....ever. 1st party is to help sell consoles, and then make money from everything else.

The irony is palpable. Try reading a Sony financial report sometime.

Or actually pay attention to the business moves Sony is making.

You're biased and don't want Sony to go into a specific direction, but Sony knows more than you whether that direction is profitable, but you've convinced yourself that you're right and they're wrong.

Think about that for a bit.

 

[Yurinka]

It's not expanding the PlayStation profit margin or market share

It is a fact that they have a huge CAGR (growth) with PC revenue, that the PC ports have a huge ROI way bigger than the new games and that in recent years the PS market share and profit margin for SIE has been improving.

Totoki said the recent small decrease in profitability was due to hardware components getting more expensive overtime unlike in previous generations (something they didn't expect), costs related to recent acquisitions (something they did expect). Plus obvious things like macroeconomic stuff like going back from the covid peak + post-covid crisis and inflation + currency exchange etc.

Totoki explictly mentioned aggresive plans to improve profitability including to double down on PC, due to its ROI and growth. Which we already know its huge because ports cost a couple millions and generate dozens, which combined with Destiny gives them hundreds of millions in revenue from PC.

Being more specific, according to their public reports PS5 hardware sales are almost at all time records launch aligned. Software revenue, first party in console revenue, game sub revenue, accesories revenue, off-console 1st party revenues, console active userbase size, are in all time records and growing. They also broke per title 1st party sales launch records in 3 of the last 4 years. Looking at country specific sales rankings they are growing and Xbox+Switch are decreasing, so they apparently also are growing their console marketshare. According to Insomniac leaks, as of early last year around half of PS5s were new to PSN (who didn't have PS3/PS4/Vita).

So yes, they are expanding not only in the two points you mentioned, but basically in all their areas and breaking record gaming history records for either themselves or for almost every single SIE area or metric. They are being more successful than ever and in a growth pattern in most of these areas.

You actually said 3 billion with a straight face, huh?

Yes, Sony said many times they plan to expand to mobile and PC and that's the userbase there.

Which doesn't mean that Sony expects every single PC user in mobile gaming and PC gaming to buy their games. In the same way they don't expect every single user who buy their console to buy Sony games.

How's that "3 billion players" working out for Microsoft in growing Game Pass?

Sony's gaming strategy is completely different with the MS one. And obviously PS+ and GP are aand will be tiny parts of Sony and MS growth strategy in mobile. Only a retarded would think this.

MS growth in mobile is working great thanks to having acquired Minecraft, King and Activision Blizzard. And in the similar way, Sony plans to grow in mobile by releasing (or maybe acquiring) mobile games.

MS mentioned both publicly and in leaked mails that didn't plan to grow GP/cloud gaming on mobile, at least not in the short term.

The revenue MS will make outside their own console is what made their revenue (and pretty likely profitability too) highly grow in recent years, and in an important part from that PC+mobile revenue. It will help them grow even more releasing their 1st party games in rival console. By killing their console hardware (at least to stop being themselvs who make it) and stop selling it at a loss would improve their profitability.

 

[mibu no ookami]

The hardware is an additional profit to Sony with PS5 something they don't get on PC.

Sony takes a hit on all console hardware sold.

Their base case scenario is someone buy their software on a PC storefront and buying 3rd party software on said PC storefront, and still utilizing their controllers, headsets, e.t.c.

That's the stuff that is sold with higher margins.

It's why Sony invested in Cloud initially and why everyone is investing in cloud now. You can sell way more software without the restriction of hardware sales.

Netflix wouldn't be nearly as big as it is now if they were restricted to specific hardware.

The only thing blinding people from seeing that is fanboyism. You guys would make terrible businessmen.

 

[mibu no ookami]

It is a fact that they have a huge CAGR (growth) with PC revenue, that the PC ports have a huge ROI way bigger than the new games and that in recent years the PS market share and profit margin for SIE has been improving.

Totoki said the recent small decrease in profitability was due to hardware components getting more expensive overtime unlike in previous generations (something they didn't expect), costs related to recent acquisitions (something they did expect). Plus obvious things like macroeconomic stuff like going back from the covid peak + post-covid crisis and inflation + currency exchange etc.

Totoki explictly mentioned aggresive plans to improve profitability including to double down on PC, due to its ROI and growth.

Being more specific, according to their public reports PS5 hardware sales are almost at all time records launch aligned. Software revenue, first party in console revenue, game sub revenue, accesories revenue, off-console 1st party revenues, console active userbase size, are in all time records and growing. They also broke per title 1st party sales launch records in 3 of the last 4 years. Looking at country specific sales rankings they are growing and Xbox+Switch are decreasing, so they apparently also are growing their console marketshare. According to Insomniac leaks, as of early last year around half of PS5s were new to PSN (who didn't have PS3/PS4/Vita).

So yes, they are expanding not only in the two points you mentioned, but basically in all their areas and breaking record gaming history records for either themselves or for almost every single SIE area or metric. They are being more successful than ever and in a growth pattern in most of these areas.

"But we don't want to believe that any of that is true, because we want Sony to focus on consoles only"

 

[Gediminas]

PS5 hardware is sold at a loss.
They can still sell PS+ to PC users.
Sony is selling more peripherals to PC users since they adopted PC support for them. The Dual Sense is one of the best selling PC gamepads. Sony also has invested in PC monitors and headsets and part of their reasoning for buying Audeze was to better capture that market.

They're still going to sell consoles to people who want consoles.

Not sure what audio department you are thinking about, but the idea that PlayStation is really pushing bravia tv sales is laughable.

stop lying. pathetic.

Sony’s $499 PlayStation 5 console is no longer selling at a loss. Bloomberg reports that Sony chief financial officer Hiroki Totoki shared the news just a week after the company announced it had sold 10 million PS5 consoles.

Sony’s $499 PS5 is no longer selling at a loss

The PS5 won’t be costly like the PS3.

www.theverge.com

 

[Nhomnhom]

Relentless coping here, now porting games to PC that barely sell is somehow more profitable than releasing new games on PlayStation that sell 10 times better or even higher.

Next step: A PC store front

Day one single player games are likely the next step. I'm curious about how die hard PlayStation fans will try to spin it.

The irony is palpable. Try reading a Sony financial report sometime.

Or actually pay attention to the business moves Sony is making.

You're biased and don't want Sony to go into a specific direction, but Sony knows more than you whether that direction is profitable, but you've convinced yourself that you're right and they're wrong.

Think about that for a bit.

I bet a few years ago your were saying Xbox leadership knew more than our regular board members. Turns out that companies make bad decisions all the time. Sony doesn't seem to know anything about PC and they are getting schooled and will be completely dominated by companies that understand that market much better like Valve.

If Sony path is so obviously correct than you are implying Nintendo is completely misguided as they chose to go in the opposite direction.

 

[JAHGamer]

The irony is palpable. Try reading a Sony financial report sometime.

Or actually pay attention to the business moves Sony is making.

You're biased and don't want Sony to go into a specific direction, but Sony knows more than you whether that direction is profitable, but you've convinced yourself that you're right and they're wrong.

Think about that for a bit.

you always write some vague bs that has nothing to do with anything. And yes, you're wrong about pretty much everything.

Sony takes a hit on all console hardware sold.

Wrong again lmao. No idea how you are always so confident and always so wrong

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/4/22609150/sony-playstation-5-ps5-loss-profit

 

[JAHGamer]

stop lying. pathetic.

Sony’s $499 PlayStation 5 console is no longer selling at a loss. Bloomberg reports that Sony chief financial officer Hiroki Totoki shared the news just a week after the company announced it had sold 10 million PS5 consoles.

Sony’s $499 PS5 is no longer selling at a loss

The PS5 won’t be costly like the PS3.

www.theverge.com

I sent my message at the same time as you, this guy @mibu no ookami literally lies so much and is wrong about so much. And when you call him out, instead of admitting he's wrong, he responds with some vague nonsense like "The irony is palpable. Try reading a Sony financial report sometime."

 

[mibu no ookami]

stop lying. pathetic.

Sony’s $499 PlayStation 5 console is no longer selling at a loss. Bloomberg reports that Sony chief financial officer Hiroki Totoki shared the news just a week after the company announced it had sold 10 million PS5 consoles.

Sony’s $499 PS5 is no longer selling at a loss

The PS5 won’t be costly like the PS3.

www.theverge.com

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/23q2_sonypre.pdf

page 6

Things change. Components have gotten more expensive. You apparently have ignored the rising cost of components and supply chain as well as inflation in general...

For you too @JAHGamer

 

[Yurinka]

"But we don't want to believe that any of that is true, because we want Sony to focus on consoles only"

Yes, basically gaming flathearthery.

They keep insisting even if you show them the receipts with the related official quotes and market data numbers that explain the reality.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Guys, dont you see whats actually happening here?

We know Xbox is a zero to the left, PlayStation is so ahead of them, that they need to compete with themselves. Now, Sony still has a strong incentive to offer a competitive console, and if they are smart they will keep investing in R&D that creates a strong synergy between their hardware and software development.

What Sony needs to realize (they already know it) is that Play Station is synonymous with Prestige and Quality. Strong marketing and critically acclaimed games are always going to be the differentiator. The challenge for the future is to position the console as a desirable piece of hardware a "lifestyle product."

 

[Nhomnhom]

Guys, dont you see whats actually happening here?

We know Xbox is a zero to the left, PlayStation is so ahead of them, that they need to compete with themselves. Now, Sony still has a strong incentive to offer a competitive console, and if they are smart they will keep investing in R&D that creates a strong synergy between their hardware and software development.

What Sony needs to realize (they already know it) is that Play Station is synonymous with Prestige and Quality. Strong marketing and critically acclaimed games are always going to be the differentiator. The challenge for the future is to position the console as a desirable piece of hardware a "lifestyle product."

They are making sure their games support and have synergy with NVidia hardware and proprietary tech pretty well, that is what they are doing.

Sony is going out of their way to compete against Valve, NVidia, Epic and MS instead of capitalizing on their current position and ensuring MS is unable to try again. They also assume Nintendo isn't interested in directly competing with them, when in fact that is very little keeping Nintendo from significantly eating into Sony current console market share.

 

[Yurinka]

Guys, dont you see whats actually happening here?

We know Xbox is a zero to the left, PlayStation is so ahead of them, that they need to compete with themselves. Now, Sony still has a strong incentive to offer a competitive console, and if they are smart they will keep investing in R&D that creates a strong synergy between their hardware and software development.

What Sony needs to realize (they already know it) is that Play Station is synonymous with Prestige and Quality. Strong marketing and critically acclaimed games are always going to be the differentiator. The challenge for the future is to position the console as a desirable piece of hardware a "lifestyle product."

Yep. And this is why Sony has games like Spider-Man 2, FFVII Rebirth, Granblue Fantasy, Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade, etc., which are miles ahead of what Xbox is getting.

That won't change because of being able to play Sony games on your laptop, PC handheld, tablet etc. in addition to in their console. The opposite, the extra platforms give them extra money that will help them grow and to not only being able to make and fund these big games, but to work in even more of them at the same time.

The catalog, user libraries and userbase of their ecosystem will continue getting bigger, so is their prestige.

 

[arvfab]

Play Station is synonymous with Prestige and Quality

Not anymore, unfortunately.

 

[JAHGamer]

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/23q2_sonypre.pdf

page 6

Things change. Components have gotten more expensive. You apparently have ignored the rising cost of components and supply chain as well as inflation in general...

For you too @JAHGamer

More vague bs from you. They were still up 16%, so there's no telling how negative they were on hardware, or what that figure even refers to. It could be a -1% loss on hardware and we wouldn't know. It was also the 1st full quarter with PSVR2 on the market, which was definitely sold at a loss. It could be from discounts or from PSVR2, we don't know. But we do know that PS5 hasn't been sold at a loss since 2021, and margins have only gotten better since the slim came out.

Yes, basically gaming flathearthery.

They keep insisting even if you show them the receipts with the related official quotes and market data numbers that explain the reality.

You should be the last one accusing others of gaming flatearthery everyone automatically knows to ignore Yurinkas "receipts" copy and paste chat GPT maestro

 

[mibu no ookami]

Yep. And this is why Sony has games like Spider-Man 2, FFVII Rebirth, Granblue Fantasy, Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade, etc., which are miles ahead of what Xbox is getting.

That won't change because of being able to play Sony games on your laptop, PC handheld, tablet etc. in addition to in their console. The opposite, the extra platforms give them extra money that will help them grow and to not only being able to make and fund these big games, but to work in even more of them at the same time.

People want to continue this myth of PlayStation eschewing consumers to PC but also stating that their games aren't selling well on PC.

Despite PS5 selling faster than PS4 and these products being high margin, which is more important than just quantity of sales.

Further they want to conflate the downfall of Xbox with Microsoft putting games on PC, when it was them putting games on PC GamePass that really made an impact, that and not releasing compelling software for a number of years in a row.

Sony recognizes they've missed out on high margins on PC and Mobile for way too long and its placed them in jeopardy. Sony is going to double down on PC and Mobile, that's just a fact. That doesn't mean they're focused less on console. It's the same thing with this idea that Sony could sustain their AAA SP budgets without diversifying their portfolio with GaaS games that bring in revenue and more importantly operating income throughout the year.

Sony is taking healthy steps to ensure its position in the future and their moves have been the most brilliant perhaps in the history of PlayStation since the PS1, but these guys are so upset that the strategy is not what got them here, but most people in business and in life will realize what got you here won't get you there.

 

[mibu no ookami]

More vague bs from you. They were still up 16%, so there's no telling how negative they were on hardware, or what that figure even refers to. It could be a -1% loss on hardware and we wouldn't know. It was also the 1st full quarter with PSVR2 on the market, which was definitely sold at a loss. It could be from discounts or from PSVR2, we don't know. But we do know that PS5 hasn't been sold at a loss since 2021, and margins have only gotten better since the slim came out.

How is this vague... the statement is increased losses due to hardware, which means they were already losing on hardware and those loses increased in the quarter. I've yet to see a single financial report that ever stated that Sony profited on hardware. You can look at financial reports before and after the PSVR2 released and that is the case.

Look at the financial reports of 2021 and tell me where Sony ever said they were profiting from PS5 or any financial reports after they mentioned a decrease in losses for two quarters before saying that they were once again facing increased losses.

 

[Gediminas]

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/23q2_sonypre.pdf

page 6

Things change. Components have gotten more expensive. You apparently have ignored the rising cost of components and supply chain as well as inflation in general...

For you too @JAHGamer

yes, PSVR 2 is sold at a ton of loss. it is hardware.

show me Totoki statement that PS5 is sold at a loss. we know, you can't.

 

[Yurinka]

You should be the last one accusing others of gaming flatearthery everyone automatically knows to ignore Yurinkas "receipts" copy and paste chat GPT maestro

Your posts in this thread are clear example of gaming flatearthery, rejecting the factual data from the proper sources like fiscal reports, market research and direct quotes from their execs only with insults and personal attacks to the ones who share them, just because they don't align with your fanfics.

How is this vague... the statement is increased losses due to hardware, which means they were already losing on hardware and those loses increased in the quarter. I've yet to see a single financial report that ever stated that Sony profited on hardware. You can look at financial reports before and after the PSVR2 released and that is the case.

Look at the financial reports of 2021 and tell me where Sony ever said they were profiting from PS5 or any financial reports after they mentioned a decrease in losses for two quarters before saying that they were once again facing increased losses.

When in this page (another one from the provided document) they say that their main negative point affecting their profitability is "increase loses from hardware" means their hardware was already generating loses and now became even worse. Please notice they mention loses, not costs. So yes, as you said they were selling their console hardware at a loss.

When they talk about "hardware" they mention PS4 and PS5. PSVR2 isn't included there, they include it under "accesories" or "others" in their reports. But I'd bet PSVR2 is being sold at a loss too.

They also mentioned again in the most recent report, this time mentioning promotions (which I assume they made seeing they weren't meeting their harware sales target for the quarter/FY). This time they also include 1st party sales (logical, because this year they only had Spider-Man 2 as big release of the year, while in the previous one they had GoWR+GT7+HFW).

In the transcription of the presentation of this and other slides there's extra info too:
https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/23q3_sonyspeech.pdf

Other than this, Totoki did talk more about it in the Q&A of the most recent quarter, where he mentioned plans to aggresively addess the pofitability, that costs of recent acquisitions were still affecting and that were going to ease out starting the next FY etc.

 

[mibu no ookami]

Q1 FY2021 (year-on-year) Sales: 9.7 bln yen (2%) increase (FX Impact: +25.5 bln yen)·(+) Increase in sales of hardware and peripheral devices·(+) Impact of foreign exchange rates·(--) Decrease in sales of non-first-party titles including add-on content OI: 40.6 bln yen significant decrease (FX Impact: +9.7 bln yen)·(ー) Decrease in sales of non-first-party titles including add-on content·(ー) Deterioration of operating results for hardware·(ー) Loss resulting from strategic price points for PlayStation®5hardware that were set lower than manufacturing costs·(ー) Decrease in unit sales of PlayStation®4 hardware·(ー) Increase in selling, general and administrative expenses·(+) Positive impact of foreign exchange rates

Q2 FY2021 (year-on-year) Sales: 138.8 bln yen (27%) significant increase (FX Impact: +20.7 bln yen)·(+) Increase in sales of hardware·(+) Impact of foreign exchange rates·(+) Increase in sales of non-first-party titles including add-on content·(ー) Decrease in sales of first-party titles OI: 22.7 bln yen significant decrease (FX Impact: +3.4 bln yen)·(ー) Deterioration of operating results for hardware and peripheral devices·(ー) Decrease in unit sales of PlayStation®4 hardware and peripheraldevices·(ー) Loss resulting from strategic price points for PlayStation®5 hardwarethat were set lower than manufacturing costs·(ー) Decrease in sales of first-party titles·(ー) Increase in selling, general and administrative expenses·(+) Increase in sales of non-first-party titles including add-on content

Q3 FY2021 (year-on-year) Sales: 70.0 bln yen (8%) decrease (FX Impact: +45.5 bln yen)·(ー) Decrease in sales of hardware and peripheral devices·(ー) Decrease in sales of non-first-party titles including add-on content·(ー) Decrease in sales of first-party titles·(+) Impact of foreign exchange rates OI: 12.1 bln yen increase (FX Impact: +2.1 bln yen)·(+) Decrease in selling, general and administrative expenses·(+) Decrease in loss resulting from strategic price points for PlayStation®5(PS5™) hardware that were set lower than manufacturing costs·(ー) Impact of decrease in sales of first-party titles·(ー) Impact of decrease in sales of non-first-party titles including add-oncontent·(ー) Impact of decrease in unit sales of peripheral devices and PlayStation®4hardware

FY2021 (year-on-year) Sales: 83.5 bln yen (3%) increase (FX Impact: +124.5 bln yen)·(+) Impact of foreign exchange rates·(+) Increase in sales of hardware·(ー) Decrease in software sales, mainly from non-first-party titles includingadd-on content OI: Essentially flat (FX Impact: +15.7 bln yen)·(+) Decrease in loss resulting from strategic price points for PlayStation®5hardware that were set lower than manufacturing costs·(ー) Impact of decrease in sales of non-first-party titles including add-oncontent

A decrease in a loss does not mean a profit.

Q1 FY2022 (year-on-year) Sales: 11.7 bln yen (2%) decrease (FX Impact: +57.9 bln yen)·(ー) Decrease in sales of non-first-party titles including add-on content·(ー) Decrease in sales of first-party titles·(+) Impact of foreign exchange rates OI: 30.5 bln yen (37%) significant decrease (FX Impact: -4.8 bln yen)·(ー) Impact of decrease in sales of non-first-party titles including add-oncontent·(ー) Impact of decrease in sales of first-party titles·(ー) Increase in costs, mainly for game software development at existingstudios

No mention of profit or decreased losses

Q2 FY2022 (year-on-year) Sales: 75.3 bln yen (12%) significant increase (FX Impact: +93.9 bln yen)·(+) Impact of foreign exchange rates·(ー) Decrease in sales of non-first-party titles including add-on content OI: 40.5 bln yen (49%) significant decrease (FX Impact: -10.7 bln yen)·(ー) Increase in costs·(ー) Increase in costs for game software development·(ー) Recording of expenses associated with acquisitions, including Bungie, Inc.*1·(ー) Negative impact of foreign exchange rates reflecting the high ratio of U.S. dollardenominated costs·(ー) Impact of decrease in sales of non-first-party titles including add-on content·(+) Decrease in losses from hardware

Once again, decrease in losses from hardware, which isn't to say profit.

Q3 FY2022 (year-on-year) Sales: 433.3 bln yen (53%) significant increase (FX Impact: +174.9 bln yen)·(+) Increase in sales of hardware·(+) Impact of foreign exchange rates·(+) Increase in sales of first-party titles OI: 23.4 bln yen (25%) significant increase (FX Impact: -3.2 bln yen)·(+) Impact of increase in sales of first-party titles·(ー) Increase in costs·(ー) Provision for expenses related to network business transactions·(ー) Recording of expenses associated with acquisitions, including Bungie,Inc.*1

No mention of hardware profit

FY2022 (year-on-year) Sales: 904.8 bln yen (33%) significant increase (FX Impact: +419.8 bln yen)·(+) Impact of foreign exchange rates·(+) Increase in sales of hardware·(+) Increase in sales of first-party titles·(ー) Decrease in sales of non-first-party titles including add-on content OI: 96.1 bln yen (28%) significant decrease (FX Impact: -32.4 bln yen)·(ー) Increase in costs·(ー) Increase in costs for game software development·(ー) Recording of expenses associated with acquisitions, including Bungie,Inc.*1·(ー) Impact of decrease in sales of non-first-party titles including add-oncontent·(+) Impact of increase in sales of first-party titles·(+) Decrease in losses from hardware

Once again, they mention that they had a decrease in losses from hardware, no mention of profit.

I'm going to jump to Q3 2023, but feel free to look at the other quarters if you think I'm leaving a comment about hardware profit out.


Q3 FY2023 (year-on-year) Sales: 197.9 bln yen (16%) significant increase (FX Impact: +76.0 bln yen)·(+) Increase in sales of non-first-party titles including add-on content·(+) Impact of foreign exchange rates OI: 30.1 bln yen (26%) significant decrease (FX Impact: +14.6 bln yen)/ Adjusted OIBDA: 26.8 bln yen (19%) decrease·(ー) Increase in losses from hardware mainly due to promotions·(ー) Impact of decrease in sales of first-party titles·(+) Impact of increase in sales of non-first-party titles including add-on content·(+) Positive impact of foreign exchange rates

Even with the release of the slim, that wasn't enough to sell the PS5 at profit, especially with the Spider-Man bundle.

Edit: Arsvab is literally laughing at copy and pasted financial reporting from sony...