Genshin Impact developer miHoYo generated more profit in 2022 than Activision Blizzard, EA, and Embracer

[Deleted member 782]

Sony did acquire Bungie and others, released PSVR2 and is developing around 40 AAA games. Had huge costs, so their profits were down.

But if you look at their revenue you'll see that Sony's revenue ($26.9 B) is bigger than Nintendo ($14 B), MiHoyo ($3.83 B) and this year even bigger than Tencent ($17.3 B).

But Sony reinvests pretty much what they do on making more stuff: their gaming R&D budget for this fiscal year is basically all the revenue that division generated the previous fiscal year after taxes and so on.


I didn't know that Gran Turismo and MLB were pvp shooters.


Yes, big publishers like Sony know that the biggest and fastest growing markets are mobile and even in consoles the (GaaS) add-ons. And that also console market is estimated to remain flat and that revenue from game sales is decreasing.

This is why publishers like Sony invest on GaaS and mobile.

They saw it coming and signed it. It's a Sony console exclusive, until it gets released on Switch somewhere in the future.

Being Chinese I don't know if they would be able to buy MiHoyo. Also, with this insane profits and profits margin their value should be insane, bigger than publishers like Capcom or Konami but only for a handful games.

Nintendo is the king when it comes to profit. Sony has a very low profit margin because most of their revenues come from third party add-on content, MTX, DLC.

We're likely to see another record breaking from Nintendo in Q1 FY2023 because of Super Mario Bros. the movie and Zelda TOTK.

 

[nongkris]

Nintendo is the king when it comes to profit. Sony has a very low profit margin because most of their revenues come from third party add-on content, MTX, DLC.

We're likely to see another record breaking from Nintendo in Q1 FY2023 because of Super Mario Bros. the movie and Zelda TOTK.

Yep nintendo is really a well executed business, their games are cheap to make with no voice acting/motion capture but sell better than most Sony blockbusters. I think if they took mobile more seriously they could be making a killing.

 

[Yurinka]

Nintendo is the king when it comes to profit. Sony has a very low profit margin because most of their revenues come from third party add-on content, MTX, DLC.

No, Sony has less profit that Nintendo because even if Sony earns way more revenue than Nintendo, Sony also spends way more money than Nintendo on making games (more expensive and more games than Nintendo) plus in deals (sign more deals with AAA and indies both for console exclusives and for PS+) and other things.

In this particular year, Sony had extra costs like acquisitions such as Bungie plus the release of PSVR2 and also the R&D of multiple other accesories being released this year etc.

The budget of Sony's gaming division for the current fiscal year is basically the revenue they generated in that division in the previous fiscal year removing from there taxes and so on.

Sony makes over twice the money than Nintendo, but decides to reinvest most of it quickly instead of keeping the money in the bank.

As an example, if Sony wouldn't have made a handful of these things like acquiring Bungie, they would have had more profits than Nintendo that year. But Sony prefers to reinvest to have more and better products because that helps them grow faster so in future fiscal years they'll have more revenue and profit.

To look at profits doesn't mean basically anything if you don't look at the rest of the picture, mostly the revenue. There's a reason of why in economics they look at the revenue of the companies as main metric to measure their market volume and value instead of looking only at the profits and ignorinh everything else as you do.

 

[Deleted member 782]

Yep nintendo is really a well executed business, their games are cheap to make with no voice acting/motion capture but sell better than most Sony blockbusters. I think if they took mobile more seriously they could be making a killing.

That's why Sony is currently looking at GAAS models for their first-party games.

 

[nongkris]

That's why Sony is currently looking at GAAS models for their first-party games.

Nintendo's profits don't come from gaas though, Sony's efforts are misplaced.

 

[Systemshock2023]

Valve should hostile takeover them.

 

[Deleted member 782]

As an example, if Sony wouldn't have made a handful of these things like acquiring Bungie, they would have had more profits than Nintendo that year. But Sony prefers to reinvest to have more and better products because that helps them grow faster so in future fiscal years they'll have more revenue and profit.

That's not going to happen, Microsoft is going to be the new king of revenue after acquiring ABK, while Nintendo, with the next Switch, Mario Kart, Smash Bros., etc., is going to continue with the tradition of being the king of Profits for the next few years.

Nintendo Switch is currently the most profitable console of all time and has made more profits than the entire PlayStation hardware since the creation of the PlayStation division.

 

[Systemshock2023]

Maybe the playstation division also finances other areas of the company.

 

[Ludwig]

Maybe the playstation division also finances other areas of the company.

All the other areas of the company are profitable.

 

[Yurinka]

That's not going to happen, Microsoft is going to be the new king of revenue after acquiring ABK, while Nintendo, with the next Switch, Mario Kart, Smash Bros., etc., is going to continue with the tradition of being the king of Profits for the next few years.

Nintendo Switch is currently the most profitable console of all time and has made more profits than the entire PlayStation hardware since the creation of the PlayStation division.

Sony's gaming revenue is bigger than MS gaming revenue + ABK revenue combined.

In the future the difference will be bigger because including the ABK games day one on GP and removing some of them PS will decrease the revenue generated by ABK. And Sony will follow their growing trend.

Sony's growing trend applies for both revenue and profit, but Sony often is too aggresive on their investments because unlike Nintendo they prefer to bet on high end hardware instead on overpriced weak hardware, and also prefers to bet on funding way more games and with bigger budgets -both in 1st party and in 3rd party deals- than Nintendo.

And this is why PS has a bigger catalog and bigger support from 3rd parties than Nintendo, sells way more games for its consoles than Nintendo and has a bigger userbase than Nintendo. Because players prefer to see the money invested on having more and better games and high end stuff, they don't care about if this of that other company is having more or less profit.

And again, if Sony doesn't have way more profit than Nintendo is because they make more than twice the money than Nintendo but they prefer to reinvest it in more and better games, hardware and service instead of keeping it in the bank.

They could easily get more profit than Nintendo by not making some of their acquisitions or investments, or not greenlighting half a dozen of these around 40 games under development, or investing less on bringing games to PS+ or signing deals with AAA 3rd parties or great indies, or growing less the headcount or number of their studios, or working in less new accesories, or investing less on expending on PC, mobile or cinema/tv adaptations. But they prefer to invest as much as they can to grow in all these -and more- areas.

 

[Nhomnhom]

Yep nintendo is really a well executed business, their games are cheap to make with no voice acting/motion capture but sell better than most Sony blockbusters. I think if they took mobile more seriously they could be making a killing.

Other than the PS3 years it is more even than I expected given how Sony completely conceded the portable market to Nintendo.

I feel like Sony does a terrible job promoting and capitalizing on games from studios like Media Molecule and Team Asobi, the same way they were bad at doing it with Japan Studios. They should either have more studios like them or grow them to be more productive.

There is a lot to be learned from Nintendo that would complement things that already work for Sony (how not to devalue their games being the main one).

Yep nintendo is really a well executed business, their games are cheap to make with no voice acting/motion capture but sell better than most Sony blockbusters. I think if they took mobile more seriously they could be making a killing.

If only Sony would take inspiration from that to have more Japanese devs. Ain't no western dev getting away with non voiced/motion captured games.

So much of what is associated with PlayStation is from Japan yet Sony themselves are hardly responsible for any of that with very few exceptions.

 

[anonpuffs]

No, 100% of the $26.9 Billion revenue made by the SIE division belongs to Sony.

You substract from there taxes, server costs, development and marketing costs of over 3 dozen games under development, the release of PSVR2, R&D on upcoming hardware and services, manufacturing/shipment/marketing costs of their hardware and accesories, the acquisition of companies like Bungie, the payment of many 2nd party and 3rd party exclusives and other types of deals like including games on PS+ etc. and then you get their profit.

The 70% cut of the 3rd party revenue that goes to their publishers isn't included there. In any case, the 3rd party software revenue represents a small portion of the total revenue of Sony's gaming division.

That's frankly hogwash. In fact the majority of revenue as stated from their financial reports is from add-on content (mtx). You really think MLB + GT7 is making up $15+b/yr of revenue? Stop and use your brain.

 

[Yurinka]

That's frankly hogwash. In fact the majority of revenue as stated from their financial reports is from add-on content (mtx). You really think MLB + GT7 is making up $15+b/yr of revenue? Stop and use your brain.

This is blatantly false.

In their finantial reports they say that add-ons revenue (862K) was only 23.64% of their revenue (3.64M):

And no, I never said MLB+GT7 is making $15B. What I said about them was to report's Sony's words or numbers saying that they are the most successful in the series/fastest selling in the series with these recent GaaS entries (we should remember GT Sport already was GaaS btw).

And their revenue isn't $15B, as can be seen there it's 3,644,698 million yen (with current exchange this is $26.2B).

You're the one who should use your brain, or at least try to get some decent sources for your statements to don't be constantly lying or wrong.

 

[anonpuffs]

This is blatantly false.

In their finantial reports they say that add-ons revenue (862K) was only 23.64% of their revenue (3.64M):

And no, I never said MLB+GT7 is making $15B. What I said about them was to report's Sony's words or numbers saying that they are the most successful in the series/fastest selling in the series with these recent GaaS entries (we should remember GT Sport already was GaaS btw).

And their revenue isn't $15B, as can be seen there it's 3,644,698 million yen (with current exchange this is $26.2B).

You're the one who should use your brain, or at least try to get some decent sources for your statements to don't be constantly lying or wrong.

What is the percentage of 862,000 million yen out of 1,716,000 million yen($12b US)? I assure you that it's over half of their software revenue. Btw if you think that they made 12 billion USD ytd on first party software sales alone I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[Yurinka]

What is the percentage of 862,000 million yen out of 1,716,000 million yen($12b US)? I assure you that it's over half of their software revenue.

Since you can't do basic maths I'll do them for you:

• Add-on revenue was 23.64% of their game division revenue in FY22 and 31.16% in FY21 (add-ons generated more revenue in FY22 than in FY21, the percentage in FY22 is smaller because in FY22 they released PSVR2, sold way more consoles due to end of shortages, included revenue from Bungie and also released more PC ports plus GoW PC was now for the first time included there for a whole year).
• If we don't count the game revenue coming from game subs, add-on revenue was 50.23% of the game software sales (these $12.36B, only including game+addon sales) on PS they did during FY22. Please notice that in these $12.36B their PC games revenue isn't included because PC games are included under the "others" segment ($2.45B in FY22, 81.22% growth versus previous year).

Btw if you think that they made 12 billion USD ytd on first party software sales alone I have a bridge to sell you.

You keep mading up stuff, I never said that.

I assume that you mean the $12.36B figure, which is the revenue that Sony made from selling games and add-ons of both 1st party and (their 30% cut) 3rd party games in their console. It doesn't include the revenue that these games generated in PS+ and also doesn't include the revenue their 1st party games made in PC.

There were 264.2M games sold (this doesn't include add-ons) on PS during FY22, 16.26% of it being 1st party (this includes 2nd party) titles. In FY21 they sold 303.2M PS games, being 14.2% of them 1st party.

In PS (notice this doesn't include PC) they sold 43.9M first party games in FY21 and 43.5M in FY22. Notice that this includes all their 1st party games sold in PS during that year, including PS1 emulated games sold in the store. Not only the games they released in these fiscal years.

 

[Petekilla]

Nintendo's profits don't come from gaas though, Sony's efforts are misplaced.

Another horrible take. Lol

 

[anonpuffs]

Since you can't do basic maths I'll do them for you:

• Add-on revenue was 23.64% of their game division revenue in FY22 and 31.16% in FY21 (add-ons generated more revenue in FY22 than in FY21, the percentage in FY22 is smaller because in FY22 they released PSVR2, sold way more consoles due to end of shortages, included revenue from Bungie and also released more PC ports plus GoW PC was now for the first time included there for a whole year).
• If we don't count the game revenue coming from game subs, add-on revenue was 50.23% of the game software sales (these $12.36B, only including game+addon sales) on PS they did during FY22. Please notice that in these $12.36B their PC games revenue isn't included because PC games are included under the "others" segment ($2.45B in FY22, 81.22% growth versus previous year).

You keep mading up stuff, I never said that.

I assume that you mean the $12.36B figure, which is the revenue that Sony made from selling games and add-ons of both 1st party and (their 30% cut) 3rd party games in their console. It doesn't include the revenue that these games generated in PS+ and also doesn't include the revenue their 1st party games made in PC.

There were 264.2M games sold (this doesn't include add-ons) on PS during FY22, 16.26% of it being 1st party (this includes 2nd party) titles. In FY21 they sold 303.2M PS games, being 14.2% of them 1st party.

In PS (notice this doesn't include PC) they sold 43.9M first party games in FY21 and 43.5M in FY22. Notice that this includes all their 1st party games sold in PS during that year, including PS1 emulated games sold in the store. Not only the games they released in these fiscal years.

Dude, you're tilting at windmills. My original point was the majority of their software revenue was not actually revenue of Sony, but of 3rd party software being sold on their storefront. Your numbers prove me absolutely correct.

 

[Yurinka]

Dude, you're tilting at windmills. My original point was the majority of their software revenue was not actually revenue of Sony, but of 3rd party software being sold on their storefront. Your numbers prove me absolutely correct.

Bullshit, my numbers proved you wrong in everything I quoted.

You kept moving the goalpost and I kept proving you wrong with more numbers or factual data.

 

[Gods&Monsters]

Dude, you're tilting at windmills. My original point was the majority of their software revenue was not actually revenue of Sony, but of 3rd party software being sold on their storefront. Your numbers prove me absolutely correct.

That's what I always thought. 70% of that revenue for software needs to go back to the publishers (same for Xbox and Nintendo). It's the industry money.