Horizon: Zero Dawn leaving PS+ May 21st (speculation a remake announcement is coming)

[Neversummer]

I mean even you must know that your arguments are purely based in bias, right?

Remakes PS fans want like Infamous 1&2, Wild Arms Trilogy, and Ratchet and Clank, SOCOM 2&3?

It might be close, but Horizon Zero Dawn probably outsold all of those games combined and with their transmedia strategy has way more selling potential than remakes of any of those games.

Sony's platformers weren't selling, which is why they stopped making them. It's actually a surprise they kept making Ratchet and Clank games.

And of course they would put a Horizon remake on PC, why wouldn't they? If the TV show is a hit, this is the version most people would probably play.

I don't totally disagree with you, but the method of how you come to your conclusion is really suspect. Would I personally prefer a Legend of Dragoon or Arc the Lad remake? Absolutely. Do I think that would sell well? Probably not.

Ofc there biased as a PS gamer & gamer general I would like to see PS remake new games instead of taking time from a studio to build HZD that’s already on PC & remake it using the HFW engine lol

Also where talking about remake not HZD ofc HZD outsold many of those games but to say this HZD remake would sell 5 million would be disingenuous at best & I would be willing to bet a inFAMOUS 1&2 remake would easily sell 7-10 million something HZD remake isn’t gonna do.

Also talking trans media strategy would it not be a smarter idea to bring an older beloved franchise that has massive potential in games & cross media given the inFAMOUS franchise itself is a super hero like protagonist. Supporting another franchise that can be combine w cross media will make more money then a HZD remake & trying to sell that to fans who already played the game on both PS & PC all be it the remake & better version of HZD is on PC. Remaking HZD would’ve been better off if the game was actually exclusive since you wouldn’t have the PC version & drive consumer into your platform but PS & PC gamers will wait on this HZD remake or completely skip out on it since there no reason for its existence other then to bump price back to $70 on a game 7 years old & the price being back to $70 for people that will watch the cross media & purchases it on PS. (I could even see this HZD remake being day n date on PC since it’s useless for PC players since they have mods)

PS in the PS3 & PS in the PS4 generation are completely different landscapes PS games & franchise have sold more then ever nearly 3x of what PS games used to sell in the PS3 but continue swallowing Sony to not give the PS platform & PS gamers new game to play & differentiate itself from other platform/storefront by not reviving some of these franchise w massive potential.

A legend of dragoon remake in the veins of the OG would sell bad it will likely still outsell its OG making it the best selling legend dragoon game if it releases with 100 million PS5 but if they took the legend of dragoon & remake it like the FF7 remake & made it more action base I could easily see it sell 7-10 million if it released w a playerbase of 100+ million

 

[mibu no ookami]

Ofc there biased as a PS gamer & gamer general I would like to see PS remake new games instead of taking time from a studio to build HZD that’s already on PC & remake it using the HFW engine lol

Also where talking about remake not HZD ofc HZD outsold many of those games but to say this HZD remake would sell 5 million would be disingenuous at best & I would be willing to bet a inFAMOUS 1&2 remake would easily sell 7-10 million something HZD remake isn’t gonna do.

Also talking trans media strategy would it not be a smarter idea to bring an older beloved franchise that has massive potential in games & cross media given the inFAMOUS franchise itself is a super hero like protagonist. Supporting another franchise that can be combine w cross media will make more money then a HZD remake & trying to sell that to fans who already played the game on both PS & PC all be it the remake & better version of HZD is on PC. Remaking HZD would’ve been better off if the game was actually exclusive since you wouldn’t have the PC version & drive consumer into your platform but PS & PC gamers will wait on this HZD remake or completely skip out on it since there no reason for its existence other then to bump price back to $70 on a game 7 years old & the price being back to $70 for people that will watch the cross media & purchases it on PS. (I could even see this HZD remake being day n date on PC since it’s useless for PC players since they have mods)

PS in the PS3 & PS in the PS4 generation are completely different landscapes PS games & franchise have sold more then ever nearly 3x of what PS games used to sell in the PS3 but continue swallowing Sony to not give the PS platform & PS gamers new game to play & differentiate itself from other platform/storefront by not reviving some of these franchise w massive potential.

A legend of dragoon remake in the veins of the OG would sell bad it will likely still outsell its OG making it the best selling legend dragoon game if it releases with 100 million PS5 but if they took the legend of dragoon & remake it like the FF7 remake & made it more action base I could easily see it sell 7-10 million if it released w a playerbase of 100+ million

The best selling inFamous games didn't sell 10 million, but a remake would?

I think making inFamous into a TV show or movie has A LOT or risk involved. It's not Marvel or DC and has significantly less potential. There is already a lot of oversaturation when it comes to superhero media on TV i.e. The Boys, Peacemaker, Invincible...

Sony obviously has a lot riding on Horizon and so does Herman Hulst in particular. If Horizon turns into the next big show, the remake would sell well and so would Horizon Forbidden West and they'd both be on PS5 and PC. There's definitely logic to that.

The rest of Sony's old IP that doesn't get games today all don't get games for a reason. The games stopped selling well. They brought Twisted Metal back as a TV show and it did well enough to get renewed for a second season, but not well enough for them to want to have a game out there.

Sony is rightfully focused on its newest and biggest franchises.

I love how you say Legend of Dragoon remake in the vein of FF7 Remake would sell 7-10 million, when FF7 Rebirth is struggling to sell... You just seem clearly out of touch, no offense.

 

[Danja]

So I guess we will probably see them remove Until Dawn sometime this summer

 

[Kokoloko]

Let's flesh out your argument.

Can you describe which were the previous mismanaged games, how much you think they sold, whether these games are done selling, and how much you think new games either continuations would have sold (and how long they would take to develop) or original IP (same question)?

thanks

Mismanagement wise. Its not about the games they have released, its probably the ones we could of had. They games they released have all been great apart from Destruction AllStars.

Wasting resources on a Horizon Remaster when they could be making/helping Guerilla with another game is a mismanagement.

First Id say Factions 2. Either A.) PS management let ND miscalculate how long it would take to support a MP game, while maybe still making a single player game. Or B.)They didn’t give them enough expansion/funds at the time be able to do a MP game and carry on making single player games at the same time. Santa Monica is probably Playstations premier studio and one of the best studios in the game, they deserved everything. They make enough money to Sony. And havent had a misfire since forever.

I would of love to see Factions 2,while they could of still been working on a single player game after TLOU2.
We’re now almost 4 years since TLOU2, Next year will be 5 so I expect something from them then. But normally Naughty Dog would show there game years before they are released, same as the other PS studios. I as a fan am not used to waiting so long to hear about what PS studios and what games they are working on.

The Demons Souls/ SOTC remake teams (Bluepoint + Japan Studios) I would of stuck into a new game straight after Demons Souls. Expanded them if they wanted to work on a new ip (which rumoured is happening). Some of the team makes a remake. The rest works on whatever they are working on now.
They are probably amongst the best remaking studios.

How Insomniac outputs game is how eventually I want to see most the studios release games. Im really hoping the May/June showcase shows us what they all have been working on.

 

[Etifilio]

So I guess we will probably see them remove Until Dawn sometime this summer

they expect console users to buy the same games 3 times, but PC users only buy it once and play the game at 4k120, 8k60 or whatever

 

[Etifilio]

they better offer an upgrade path for it or i'm not even looking to it, they need to stop abusing console players with remakes and paid multiplayer, the more and more they do this, the more and more they want to make me go full PC and never purchase a console anymore

 

[Neversummer]

I think they believe Horizon is a more compelling franchise than it is and I think they're going to be in for a shock, but I'm willing to leave room for me to be completely wrong.

Like you said, it might be able to capture a much younger/more casual market. They seem to be putting in a lot of resources into this one franchise and if it fails, it'll probably be the end of Herman Hulst.

It could be a complete bomb or it could be the biggest thing Sony has ever done. Who really knows.

Oh no I agree w Sony Horizon has a ton of potential not just in games but cross media & even parks.

The only thing stopping Horizon being more beloved is Aloy as a character is boring & annoying atleast from what people say

Horizon online should be an easy moderate to big succes just riding of Monster Hunter alone whether the game captures gamers long term is another thing

 

[mibu no ookami]

Mismanagement wise. Its not about the games they have released, its probably the ones we could of had. They games they released have all been great apart from Destruction AllStars.

Wasting resources on a Horizon Remaster when they could be making/helping Guerilla with another game is a mismanagement.

Again, I think for Sony it is about risk/reward. They're trying to recoup a lot of the development costs related to their PS4 games that were critically acclaimed, especially now that they're in the age of transmedia. Every big selling PS4 game is getting a tv show or movie, even some of them that didn't sell well.

First Id say Factions 2. Either A.) PS management let ND miscalculate how long it would take to support a MP game, while maybe still making a single player game. Or B.)They didn’t give them enough expansion/funds at the time be able to do a MP game and carry on making single player games at the same time. Santa Monica is probably Playstations premier studio and one of the best studios in the game, they deserved everything. They make enough money to Sony. And havent had a misfire since forever.

Projects get cancelled. We have no idea how much resources Factions ever took. People kind of just assume the whole company was working on it, which was never stated by Naughty Dog, who have always said they were working on multiple projects. I think it's a shame the game was cancelled and I wouldn't be surprised if they change their mind and restart the project after the success of Helldivers 2.

I think Factions probably started off as a MP player game and then turned into a GaaS game, but didn't have enough meat to it and they decided that their SP projects should take priority. Who knows what they end up using those resources for. There is as good a chance as any that TLOU3 will have a multiplayer mode using the resources created for Factions. People take the cancellation as they're just throwing out the game, which isn't necessarily the case.

You mention Santa Monica hasn't had a misfire in forever but they've only had two successes in a row. The previous game was canceled and the game before that underperformed.

Naughty Dog actually has the best track record, despite what many people want to say.

I would of love to see Factions 2,while they could of still been working on a single player game after TLOU2.
We’re now almost 4 years since TLOU2, Next year will be 5 so I expect something from them then. But normally Naughty Dog would show there game years before they are released, same as the other PS studios. I as a fan am not used to waiting so long to hear about what PS studios and what games they are working on.

How many years do you think it takes to make games now? One of the biggest criticisms of Naughty Dog was crunch. So they aren't announcing things early. Things change, but the timelines will catch up to themselves.

The Demons Souls/ SOTC remake teams (Bluepoint + Japan Studios) I would of stuck into a new game straight after Demons Souls. Expanded them if they wanted to work on a new ip (which rumoured is happening). Some of the team makes a remake. The rest works on whatever they are working on now.
They are probably amongst the best remaking studios.

Bluepoint has already said they are working on multiple projects. You make it sound like they're bigger than they actually are though.

How Insomniac outputs game is how eventually I want to see most the studios release games. Im really hoping the May/June showcase shows us what they all have been working on.

Insomniac re-uses assets for the same game. The evolution from Spider-Man 1 to Spider-Man Miles Morales and Spider-Man Remastered to Spider-Man 2 has been some of the least I've seen in gaming, particularly on a new generation. Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart also re-uses assets from Ratchet and Clank 2016.

Naughty Dog and other studios at sony TEND to be more ambitious than that. So it's weird to see people hail Insomniac as this paragon of production, when they're just reskinning their games.

EA puts out a Madden ever year... they're amazing... said no one ever...

 

[Neversummer]

This worked for TLOUP1, so the strategy seems pretty well established. People still bought the cheap versions, but they created significantly more revenue from the new game.

TLOU 1 released in 2013 & was a PS3 game & easily could’ve used a remake on PS5

Horizon is a PS4 2017 game already looking amazing so a remake on PS5 is less needed also it’s on PC while TLOU 1 wasn’t.

Ig the can make some profit while not providing PS w new games & more unneeded “remakes” I would’ve easily take a Killzone 2/3 remake from Guerilla & Jak & Daxter or Uncharted 1/2/3 remake instead of 2 remakes that didn’t added much in general & for PS own lineup

 

[mibu no ookami]

Oh no I agree w Sony Horizon has a ton of potential not just in games but cross media & even parks.

The only thing stopping Horizon being more beloved is Aloy as a character is boring & annoying atleast from what people say

Horizon online should be an easy moderate to big succes just riding of Monster Hunter alone whether the game captures gamers long term is another thing

Aloy has the potential to reach a demographic of gamers that Sony is really interested in adding to PlayStation. If the show is a hit, it'll probably be a hit with women across a wide range of age demographics. If that translates to them buying the game and PS5, that will be a huge boon to Sony. You personally might not like Aloy, but perhaps you aren't the target demo here, which I think some gamers struggle with.

I don't see many men dressing up as Rey from Star Wars for Halloween, but a lot of young girls do. Those girls will probably grow up to be Star Wars fans as young adults and as adults. It's a long term investment.

Horizon Online takes the entire concept and creates a lot of opportunity.

 

[Danja]

Again, I think for Sony it is about risk/reward. They're trying to recoup a lot of the development costs related to their PS4 games that were critically acclaimed, especially now that they're in the age of transmedia. Every big selling PS4 game is getting a tv show or movie, even some of them that didn't sell well.



Projects get cancelled. We have no idea how much resources Factions ever took. People kind of just assume the whole company was working on it, which was never stated by Naughty Dog, who have always said they were working on multiple projects. I think it's a shame the game was cancelled and I wouldn't be surprised if they change their mind and restart the project after the success of Helldivers 2.

I think Factions probably started off as a MP player game and then turned into a GaaS game, but didn't have enough meat to it and they decided that their SP projects should take priority. Who knows what they end up using those resources for. There is as good a chance as any that TLOU3 will have a multiplayer mode using the resources created for Factions. People take the cancellation as they're just throwing out the game, which isn't necessarily the case.

You mention Santa Monica hasn't had a misfire in forever but they've only had two successes in a row. The previous game was canceled and the game before that underperformed.

Naughty Dog actually has the best track record, despite what many people want to say.




How many years do you think it takes to make games now? One of the biggest criticisms of Naughty Dog was crunch. So they aren't announcing things early. Things change, but the timelines will catch up to themselves.




Bluepoint has already said they are working on multiple projects. You make it sound like they're bigger than they actually are though.




Insomniac re-uses assets for the same game. The evolution from Spider-Man 1 to Spider-Man Miles Morales and Spider-Man Remastered to Spider-Man 2 has been some of the least I've seen in gaming, particularly on a new generation. Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart also re-uses assets from Ratchet and Clank 2016.

Naughty Dog and other studios at sony TEND to be more ambitious than that. So it's weird to see people hail Insomniac as this paragon of production, when they're just reskinning their games.

EA puts out a Madden ever year... they're amazing... said no one ever...

We know Factions 2 started off as a lobby based multiplayer game. There was already a running build of the game before The Last of Party 2 was released.

They simply should have kept that going and release it as a Free DLC when it was ready.

 

[Yurinka]

I think the idea of remaking a game released the previous generation is nonsensical, specially when the console is BC. I think it won't happen at all.

But to release a PS5 SKU of their "HFW Complete Edition" adding some minor tweaks like adding DualSense features support, 3D audio, faster loading, higher resolution and framerate (basically just migrating the old game to the new version of the engine they had for the PC port or HFW) is possible.

Maybe charging $10 for PS4 existing owners even if don't include the DLC as they did in some Director's Cut and remasters.

 

[mibu no ookami]

TLOU 1 released in 2013 & was a PS3 game & easily could’ve used a remake on PS5

Horizon is a 2017 game already looking amazing so a remake on PS5 is less needed also it’s on PC while TLOU 1 wasn’t.

Ig the can make some profit while not providing PS w new games & more unneeded “remakes” I would’ve easily take a Killzone 2/3 remake from Guerilla & Jak & Daxter or Uncharted 1/2/3 remake instead of 2 remakes that didn’t added much in general & for PS own lineup

You're forgetting about the 2014 remaster that was already playable on PS5.

It's not all about you my guy.

 

[mibu no ookami]

We know Factions 2 started off as a lobby based multiplayer game. There was already a running build of the game before The Last of Party 2 was released.

They simply should have kept that going and release it as a Free DLC when it was ready.

Their ambitions got the better of them. We'll see if we ever see any of the work in future games though.

If they wanted to release it as a free DLC like Santa Monica did with God of War, they could have and would have. It's pretty clear they have other plans for it.

 

[Neversummer]

The best selling inFamous games didn't sell 10 million, but a remake would?

I think making inFamous into a TV show or movie has A LOT or risk involved. It's not Marvel or DC and has significantly less potential. There is already a lot of oversaturation when it comes to superhero media on TV i.e. The Boys, Peacemaker, Invincible...

Sony obviously has a lot riding on Horizon and so does Herman Hulst in particular. If Horizon turns into the next big show, the remake would sell well and so would Horizon Forbidden West and they'd both be on PS5 and PC. There's definitely logic to that.

The rest of Sony's old IP that doesn't get games today all don't get games for a reason. The games stopped selling well. They brought Twisted Metal back as a TV show and it did well enough to get renewed for a second season, but not well enough for them to want to have a game out there.

Sony is rightfully focused on its newest and biggest franchises.

I love how you say Legend of Dragoon remake in the vein of FF7 Remake would sell 7-10 million, when FF7 Rebirth is struggling to sell... You just seem clearly out of touch, no offense.

GOW in the PS1, PS2 & PS3 gen didn’t sell over 10 million but with the PS4 generation & PS5 GOW easily sells 10 million & now sells 20+ million.

Yes a inFAMOUS 1/2 remake would easily sell 5+ million & saying it could reach 7-10 million isn’t far fetch. R&C rift apart already sold 5 million if not about to reach it or surpassed it but inFAMOUS 1/2 remake can’t sell 5+ million with this new PS that have reach new levels would be downplaying PS & the inFAMOUS franchise.

inFAMOUS Second son sold 6+ million clear sign people are interested in inFAMOUS & people didn’t even like the protagonist in Second son compared to Colt in inFAMOUS 1&2

 

[Neversummer]

Again, I think for Sony it is about risk/reward. They're trying to recoup a lot of the development costs related to their PS4 games that were critically acclaimed, especially now that they're in the age of transmedia. Every big selling PS4 game is getting a tv show or movie, even some of them that didn't sell well.



Projects get cancelled. We have no idea how much resources Factions ever took. People kind of just assume the whole company was working on it, which was never stated by Naughty Dog, who have always said they were working on multiple projects. I think it's a shame the game was cancelled and I wouldn't be surprised if they change their mind and restart the project after the success of Helldivers 2.

I think Factions probably started off as a MP player game and then turned into a GaaS game, but didn't have enough meat to it and they decided that their SP projects should take priority. Who knows what they end up using those resources for. There is as good a chance as any that TLOU3 will have a multiplayer mode using the resources created for Factions. People take the cancellation as they're just throwing out the game, which isn't necessarily the case.

You mention Santa Monica hasn't had a misfire in forever but they've only had two successes in a row. The previous game was canceled and the game before that underperformed.

Naughty Dog actually has the best track record, despite what many people want to say.




How many years do you think it takes to make games now? One of the biggest criticisms of Naughty Dog was crunch. So they aren't announcing things early. Things change, but the timelines will catch up to themselves.




Bluepoint has already said they are working on multiple projects. You make it sound like they're bigger than they actually are though.




Insomniac re-uses assets for the same game. The evolution from Spider-Man 1 to Spider-Man Miles Morales and Spider-Man Remastered to Spider-Man 2 has been some of the least I've seen in gaming, particularly on a new generation. Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart also re-uses assets from Ratchet and Clank 2016.

Naughty Dog and other studios at sony TEND to be more ambitious than that. So it's weird to see people hail Insomniac as this paragon of production, when they're just reskinning their games.

EA puts out a Madden ever year... they're amazing... said no one ever...

If where really making excuses for Sony to make new games & if Sony has to think of the “risk & reward” of making new games instead of unneeded “remakes/remaster” Sony PS deserves to spiral into bankruptcy & we as consumer & gamers should rejoice on Nintendo continuing ability to provide & take away market share from Sony PS.

 

[Neversummer]

Aloy has the potential to reach a demographic of gamers that Sony is really interested in adding to PlayStation. If the show is a hit, it'll probably be a hit with women across a wide range of age demographics. If that translates to them buying the game and PS5, that will be a huge boon to Sony. You personally might not like Aloy, but perhaps you aren't the target demo here, which I think some gamers struggle with.

I don't see many men dressing up as Rey from Star Wars for Halloween, but a lot of young girls do. Those girls will probably grow up to be Star Wars fans as young adults and as adults. It's a long term investment.

Horizon Online takes the entire concept and creates a lot of opportunity.

The show will be a ssuccess all they have to do is give Aloy a charming & adventurous personality like Nathan Drake instead of a annoying/“stick up”

 

[mibu no ookami]

If where really making excuses for Sony to make new games & if Sony has to think of the “risk & reward” of making new games instead of unneeded “remakes/remaster” Sony PS deserves to spiral into bankruptcy & we as consumer & gamers should rejoice on Nintendo continuing ability to provide & take away market share from Sony PS.

The irony given the number of remakes Nintendo has made.

Sony is capitalizing on their biggest IP in a time of transmedia. These games might not be needed by you, but the market will determine their worth.

 

[mibu no ookami]

GOW in the PS1, PS2 & PS3 gen didn’t sell over 10 million but with the PS4 generation & PS5 GOW easily sells 10 million & now sells 20+ million.

Yes a inFAMOUS 1/2 remake would easily sell 5+ million & saying it could reach 7-10 million isn’t far fetch. R&C rift apart already sold 5 million if not about to reach it or surpassed it but inFAMOUS 1/2 remake can’t sell 5+ million with this new PS that have reach new levels would be downplaying PS & the inFAMOUS franchise.

inFAMOUS Second son sold 6+ million clear sign people are interested in inFAMOUS & people didn’t even like the protagonist in Second son compared to Colt in inFAMOUS 1&2

God of War entirely rebooted and changed its entire gameplay design and tone.

Could that work for other Sony franchises? Sure, but God of War was also already bigger than these other franchises too.

inFamous definitely felt like it hit its ceiling and right out of the park Ghost of Tsushima did significantly better. So again, Sony is going to focus on Ghost rather than inFamous or Sly Cooper.

 

[Neversummer]

Mismanagement wise. Its not about the games they have released, its probably the ones we could of had. They games they released have all been great apart from Destruction AllStars.

Wasting resources on a Horizon Remaster when they could be making/helping Guerilla with another game is a mismanagement.

First Id say Factions 2. Either A.) PS management let ND miscalculate how long it would take to support a MP game, while maybe still making a single player game. Or B.)They didn’t give them enough expansion/funds at the time be able to do a MP game and carry on making single player games at the same time. Santa Monica is probably Playstations premier studio and one of the best studios in the game, they deserved everything. They make enough money to Sony. And havent had a misfire since forever.

I would of love to see Factions 2,while they could of still been working on a single player game after TLOU2.
We’re now almost 4 years since TLOU2, Next year will be 5 so I expect something from them then. But normally Naughty Dog would show there game years before they are released, same as the other PS studios. I as a fan am not used to waiting so long to hear about what PS studios and what games they are working on.

The Demons Souls/ SOTC remake teams (Bluepoint + Japan Studios) I would of stuck into a new game straight after Demons Souls. Expanded them if they wanted to work on a new ip (which rumoured is happening). Some of the team makes a remake. The rest works on whatever they are working on now.
They are probably amongst the best remaking studios.

How Insomniac outputs game is how eventually I want to see most the studios release games. Im really hoping the May/June showcase shows us what they all have been working on.

Majority of PS studios should become minimal 3-4 team studio for isntance.

ND team 1 working on new ip team 2 works on tlou3 team 3 works on jak & daxter (after tlou3 make tlou online or work on a new uncharted)

Suckerpunch team 1 works on GOT team 2 works on inFAMOUS & team 3 works on sly copper (after GOT2 split team 1 into 2 to continue working on GOT & a new ip)

Bluepoint team 1 works on remakes team 2 works on new ip & maybe team 3 works on new soulsborne game (demon souls 2 & bloodborne 2)

Housemorque team 1 works new ip team 2 works on arcade style roguelike using PS ip (use the demon souls ip & make a roguelike, survival, round base games like vampire survivor but 3D with bosses & with 4 player online coop) or a (roguelike game using the ratchet & clank game hell or a 3D side scroll platform in the veins of Mario using the ratchet & clank ip 4 player online coop)

Guerrilla team 1 works on Horizon & team 2 work on Killzone or use there expertise in 3rd person action & 1st person game & make a new Socom)

Team Asobi team 1 makes Astro bot team 2 works on Ape Escape & team 3 works on wild arms or gravity rush sequel

You get the jist PS studios only making 1 game per generation should be a thing in the past & something PS shouldn’t have gone through with the PS5 seeing the PS4 generation success. More games (them being actual exclusive) = more console sells more console sells = more profit larger playerbase = storefront & platform becoming defacto which = more 3rd party games