PS5 Pro updated rumors/leaks & technical/specs discussion |OT| PS5 Pro Enhanced Requirements Detailed.

[Gamernyc78]

Benji seems late to the party as hes posting specs rumored months ago.

EXCLUSIVE - More PlayStation 5 Pro Specs Detailed

Following this week's leaks on the PlayStation 5 Pro GPU specs and performance targets, Insider Gaming has learned more PS5 Pro specs.

insider-gaming.com

Update 3/29

EXCLUSIVE - PS5 Pro Enhanced Requirements Detailed​

EXCLUSIVE - PS5 Pro Enhanced Requirements Detailed

Insider Gaming has learned of the developer requirements that need to be met to have the 'PS5 Pro Enhanced' label.

insider-gaming.com

Update 3/18/24

Tom Henderson: As expected, Sony has launched an internal investigation into the leaked documents on Trinity as it leaked during a third-party rollout.​

Tom Henderson - The PS5 pro specs leak was real and it releases Holidays 2024​

PS5 Pro Specs Leak are Real, Releasing Holiday 2024

The leaked PS5 Pro specs leaked earlier today are real and the PlayStation 5 is still tentatively targeting a 2025 holiday release.

insider-gaming.com

Insider Gaming can confirm that the leaked PS5 Pro specs leaked earlier today are real and the PlayStation 5 is still tentatively targeting a 2024 holiday release.

Speaking with sources, who wished to remain anonymous because they were not authorized to talk about company plans, we can confirm that the leaked documentation from the YouTube channel Moore’s Law is Dead is real, despite the criticism of the leaker and the leaked specs. Insider Gaming can confirm that the documentation leaked is from a PlayStation developer portal, which was sent out this week to a wider band of third-party developers.

In early 2023, I reported via Key to Gaming that the PS5 Pro is under the codename ‘Trinity’ and will be targeting improved and consistent FPS at 4K resolution, a new ‘performance mode’ for 8K resolution, and accelerated ray tracing. In addition, it was reported that Trinity will have 30 WGP and 18000mts memory.

Today’s leaked documents also confirmed:

• Rendering 45% faster than PS5
• 2-3x Ray-tracing (x4 in some cases)
• 33.5 Teraflops
• PSSR (PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution Upscaling) upscaling/antialiasing solution
• Support for resolutions up to 8K is planned for future SDK version
• Custom machine learning architecture
• AI Accelerator, supporting 300 TOPS of 8 bit computation / 67 TFLOPS of 16-bit floating point

Existing information

• In July 2023, Tom Henderson reported that the PS5 Pro, "codenamed" Trinity, is currently in development. According to him it has 30WGPs, 18 gbps GDDR6, and is targeting a Nov 2024 release date. He also mentioned it has "accelerated ray tracing."
• Reliable hardware leaker "Kepler_L2" reported in July that AMD's codename for the SoC is "Viola."
• Both Trinity and Viola codenames follow the existing Shakespearean inspiration for codenames surrounding the latest Sony consoles. Viola is the protagonist in the Shakespeare play Twelfth Night, and Trinity references the Holy Trinity Church (Stratford-upon-Avon) where Shakespeare was baptized, married, and buried. But it also carries another meaning that we'll get to later.
• Kepler_L2 recently said the PS5 Pro's CPU upgrade is "rather small."
• (Let me know if I missed anything in terms of previously established rumors)

New information:

• Viola is fabbed on TSMC N4P.
• GFX1115
• Viola's CPU is maintaining the zen2 architecture found in the existing PS5 for compatibility, but the frequency will once again be dynamic with a peak of 4.4GHz. 64 KB of L1 cache per core, 512 KB of L2 cache per core, and 8 MB of L3 shared (4 MB per CCX).
• Viola's die is 30WGPs when fully enabled, but it will only have 28WGPs (56 CUs) enabled for the silicon in retail PS5 Pro units.
• Trinity is the culmination of three key technologies. Fast storage (hardware accelerated compression and decompression, already an existing key PS5 technology), accelerated ray tracing, and upscaling.
• Architecture is RDNA3, but it's taking ray tracing improvements from RDNA4. BVH traversal will be handled by dedicated RT hardware rather than fully relying on the shaders. It will also include thread reordering to reduce data and execution divergence, something akin to Ada Lovelace SER and Intel Arc's TSU.
• 3584 shaders, 224 TMUs, and 96 ROPs.
• 16GB of 18 gbps GDDR6. 256-bit memory bus with 576 GB/s memory bandwidth.
• The GPU frequency target is 2.0 GHz. This lands the dual-issue TFLOPs in the range of 28.67 TFLOPs peak (224 (TMUs) * 2 (operations, dual issue) * 2 (core clock)). 14.33 TFLOPs if we ignore the dual-issue factor.
• 50-60% rasterization uplift over Oberon and Oberon Plus, over twice the raw RT performance.
• XDNA2 NPU will be featured for the purpose of accelerating Sony's bespoke temporal machine learning upscaling technique. This will be one of the core focuses of the PS5 Pro, like we saw with checkboard rendering for the PS4 Pro. Temporally stable upscaled 4K output at higher than 30 FPS is the goal.
• September 2024 reveal

From reeee

Tom Henderson says Sony internally expects the full specs of the PS5 Pro to leak this month because of dev kit distribution to third-party studios​

Updated 2/20/24

CNBC: Sony to release a PS5 Pro this year​

Rumour

Sony is likely to release a refreshed version of the PlayStation 5 this year, analysts told CNBC, after the company cut its forecast for sales of its flagship console.
The move would be designed to boost interest in the PlayStation 5 and offer a souped-up piece of hardware ready for release of Grand Theft Auto VI in 2025, one of this decade’s most hotly anticipated games, the analysts said.
Sony was not immediately available for comment when contacted by CNBC.
First released in November 2020, Sony’s PlayStation 5 is now more than 3 years old. The Japanese gaming giant cut its forecast last week for PS5 sales for the fiscal year ending in March from 25 million units to 21 million units. An executive said last week during the company’s earnings call that Sony is expecting a “gradual decline” in unit sales from the next fiscal year.
When this has happened in past console cycles, gaming firms have looked to bring out a refreshed piece of hardware to reinviograte sales. For example, Sony launched a “Pro” version of the PlayStation 4, the previous generation console, around three years after the PS4 was initially launched.
Analysts are now expecting a PlayStation 5 Pro from Sony.
“There seems to be a broad consensus in the game industry that Sony is indeed preparing a launch of a PS5 Pro in the second half of 2024,” Serkan Toto, CEO of Tokyo-based games consultancy Kantan Games, told CNBC.
“And Sony will want to make sure to have a great piece of hardware ready when GTA VI hits in 2025, a launch that will be a shot in the arm for the entire gaming industry.”
So far, Sony launched a slightly upgraded PS5 last year as well as a handheld console called the PlayStation Portal. But the PS5 Pro would likely be a much bigger upgrade.
Even as expectations of a new console rise, Sony is grappling with a big issue — that profit margins at its key gaming business are sitting near decade lows.
On the earnings call, Sony management said the aim for its gaming business is to “optimize sales with a greater emphasis on the balance with profits.”
George Jijiashvili, senior principal analyst at Omdia, said this could mean that even when the PS5 Pro comes out, Sony may not cut the price of the current PS5, as has been the trend in the past.
“Therefore, a scenario where Sony launches as PS5 Pro, but still experiences a declining year-on-year hardware sales is very much within the realms of possibility,” Jijiashvili said.

Source

 

[Puff]

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Lost me at the 2GHz GPU clock target.

They wouldn't lower the GPU clocks by 10% following a process improvement, at the very least because it wouldn't be able to run regular PS5 games in pure BC mode.

Dedicated XDNA for upscaling also makes very little sense, considering how close the compute-base temporal solutions are from DLSS, especially in properly optimized console games.

I get the keeping Zen2 CPU architecture part, but not increasing total available memory is also strange, especially if they're going to increase memory requirements due to higher raytracing demands. I read something about keeping some dedicated DDR5 pool for CPU tasks which could compensate this somewhat and would be similar to what Sony did with the PS4 Pro.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Also, all these new specs appeared yesterday in a post from an user called "RandomlyRandom67" with 38 posts.

Yeah...

 

[Satoru]

They wouldn't lower the GPU clocks by 10% following a process improvement, at the very least because it wouldn't be able to run regular PS5 games in pure BC mode.

Oberon was also 2GHz before smartshift. It's possible that the development version (not DevKit) also has the same clockspeed simply for testing purposes.

Dedicated XDNA for upscaling also makes very little sense, considering how close the compute-base temporal solutions are from DLSS, especially in properly optimized console games.

What does that even mean?

I get the keeping Zen2 CPU architecture part, but not increasing total available memory is also strange, especially if they're going to increase memory requirements due to higher raytracing demands.

Depends on what the intended targets are. Spider-man on PC requires 32GB for ultimate RT, however PC's have slower pipelines (much slower) than the PS5 (as a rule of thumb). More important than more memory is more bandwidth and more "power". It's perfectly possible that they added 2 or so GB of DDR5 for OS tasks, freeing a little more memory.

 

[Jim Ryan]

 

[Bryank75]

Oh wow, I'm very excited to see the real specs and potential of this thing. I wonder what they can pack into a machine for whatever price they are targeting. It could be incredibly impressive, especially now that AMD probably realize PlayStation is where the potential is for business.

 

[ethomaz]

Petty small jump imo.

10.3TFs to 14.33TFs (forget the dual issue... tests already proved it is not working like intended... a RDNA 3 dual issue 30TFs barely beat a RDNA 2 15TFs).

 

[Bryank75]

Petty small jump imo.

10.3TFs to 14.33TFs (forget the dual issue... tests already proved it is not working like intended... a RDNA 2 15TFs beat a RDNA 3 dual issue 30TFs).

These are not teraflops, these are Cerny-flops, far more potent. Far more powerful.

He has a Knack for these things...

 

[ethomaz]

These are not teraflops, these are Cerny-flops, far more potent. Far more powerful.

He has a Knack for these things...

I think the real difference will be RT if it is indeed dedicated units instead shared with compute units.

RX 7900XT even having the double TFs perform in average 20-30% better than RX 6900XT/6800XT when enabled RT in games.
Without RT enabled the difference decrease.

 

[Bryank75]

I think the real difference will be RT if it is indeed dedicated units instead shared with compute units.

I'd be cool with that, I just want a few things.... more 60fps+ games, better AA and better raytracing.

Resolution, I'm okay with anything over 1440p. Those are my priorities, along with more activity and AI on screen.

 

[Entropi]

I’m sure Cerny wouldn’t put dual issue shaders into the PS5 Pro and waste precious die space. The GPU clock looks suspicious too.

 

[ethomaz]

I'd be cool with that, I just want a few things.... more 60fps+ games, better AA and better raytracing.

Resolution, I'm okay with anything over 1440p. Those are my priorities, along with more activity and AI on screen.

Yeap... it will be fine... it will give better resolution and stable framerates to games (well most 3rd-parties... first-party usually have already good framerate).
I'm a bit confused why they are using 16GB instead 20GB or 24GB.

 

[Bryank75]

Yeap... it will be fine... it will give better resolution and stable framerates to games (well most 3rd-parties... first-party usually have already good framerate).
I'm a bit confused why they are using 16GB instead 20GB or 24GB.

If it turns out to be true, I agree...It's strange. Maybe it's a more expensive component or maybe the SSD makes up for not upgrading to 20 /24GB.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Already debunked by Kepler_L2, and videocardz updated their article accordingly.





Looks like 30 WGP / 60CU on RDNA3 + RDNA4's raytracing pipeline. Rasterizer units were doubled but upgraded to RB+ (compared to PS5's older RB, it has lower area/transistor count per ROP, but half the z-stencil units).
CPU and GPU clocks are still unknown, but I'd find it difficult to believe the GPU clock ceiling would be lower than 2.4GHz (desktop N32 tops at ~2.65GHz and averages at 2.4GHz). 2.4GHz would drive total compute power to 18.4 TFLOPs without dual-issue (which might be used a lot more often in a console environment).

Oberon was also 2GHz before smartshift. It's possible that the development version (not DevKit) also has the same clockspeed simply for testing purposes.

If it's a N4 chip (mature process by now) and the devkit was sent to 3rd party devs, then it's definitely using final speeds already. And it's not 2GHz for sure.

What does that even mean?

FSR2/3 can do the upscaling/reconstruction job just fine so they're not spending die area on dedicated tensor units. Sony's own compute-based temporal injection methods from Insomniac and others seem to be even better than FSR. Dev time is probably better spent upgrading compute-based temporal upscalers to use RDNA3's dual-issue capabilities.

I’m sure Cerny wouldn’t put dual issue shaders into the PS5 Pro and waste precious die space. The GPU clock looks suspicious too.

Dual-issue is a "waste" on the PC because the PC ecosystem isn't making use of the dual-issuable instructions.
If Sony controls the ecosystem (i.e. makes everyone use their own SDK and API) then the probability of using those instructions goes way higher.
https://chipsandcheese.com/2023/01/07/microbenchmarking-amds-rdna-3-graphics-architecture/



Regardless, it need to be said that dual-issuing FP32 doesn't mean quad-issuing FP16 so anything that uses FP16 will get the exact same throughput. Also, dual-issuing FP32 without increasing caches and registers will always mean the actual performance improvement is rather low.

 

[Entropi]

Already debunked by Kepler_L2, and videocardz updated their article accordingly.





Looks like 30 WGP / 60CU on RDNA3 + RDNA4's raytracing pipeline. Rasterizer units were doubled but upgraded to RB+ (compared to PS5's older RB, it has lower area/transistor count per ROP, but half the z-stencil units).
CPU and GPU clocks are still unknown, but I'd find it difficult to believe the GPU clock ceiling would be lower than 2.4GHz (desktop N32 tops at ~2.65GHz and averages at 2.4GHz). 2.4GHz would drive total compute power to 18.4 TFLOPs without dual-issue (which might be used a lot more often in a console environment).




If it's a N4 chip (mature process by now) and the devkit was sent to 3rd party devs, then it's definitely using final speeds already. And it's not 2GHz for sure.



FSR2/3 can do the upscaling/reconstruction job just fine so they're not spending die area on dedicated tensor units. Sony's own compute-based temporal injection methods from Insomniac and others seem to be even better than FSR. Dev time is probably better spent upgrading compute-based temporal upscalers to use RDNA3's dual-issue capabilities.




Dual-issue is a "waste" on the PC because the PC ecosystem isn't making use of the dual-issuable instructions.
If Sony controls the ecosystem (i.e. makes everyone use their own SDK and API) then the probability of using those instructions goes way higher.
https://chipsandcheese.com/2023/01/07/microbenchmarking-amds-rdna-3-graphics-architecture/



Regardless, it need to be said that dual-issuing FP32 doesn't mean quad-issuing FP16 so anything that uses FP16 will get the exact same throughput. Also, dual-issuing FP32 without increasing caches and registers will always mean the actual performance improvement is rather low.

I wonder how difficult it would be to code a game to take advantage of dual-issue while maintaining compatibility with the regular PS5.

 

[Satoru]

This is roughly how RDNA cards are organized:

When looking at the PS5, we know that it has:

• 2 shader engines
• 4 shader arrays
• 20 WGP, with 2 of them being disabled

This more or less matches the Navi 22 floorplan, with AMD GPU analogous being the Radeon RX 6700.

When looking at the PS5 rumours, it seems to have:

• ??? shader engines
• ??? shader arrays
• 30 WGP, with 2 of them being disabled

Now, looking at current RDNA cards, this seems to match the RDNA 3 GPU Radeon RX 7800 XT.

Now, what we know about the new cards is that they have 6 shader arrays per shader engine, with each array having 5 compute units.. So we probably have:

• 3 shader engines
• 18 shader arrays
• 30 WGP, with 2 of them being disable.

The 7800xt is a good upgrade over the 6700xt (ignoring price), so logic dictates it will be an even bigger upgrade when compared with the regular 6700.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Yeah these leaks are real. Smh now I got to get a pro.

 

[Satoru]

If it's a N4 chip (mature process by now) and the devkit was sent to 3rd party devs, then it's definitely using final speeds already. And it's not 2GHz for sure.

We don't know the date of the existing leaked information. I'm almost sure it won't be 2GHz, and it will likely match the existing console at the very least.

FSR2/3 can do the upscaling/reconstruction job just fine so they're not spending die area on dedicated tensor units. Sony's own compute-based temporal injection methods from Insomniac and others seem to be even better than FSR. Dev time is probably better spent upgrading compute-based temporal upscalers to use RDNA3's dual-issue capabilities.

I understand that, but just because FSR2/3 can do a job just fine doesn't mean Sony can't find a way to use AI Engines to boost their own methods further. It could be equally possible that they found a way to use XDNA to further improve their own checkerboarding solutions. I believe the PS4 pro already leverages hardware for improving checkerboarding, so this could be seen as a more advanced solutions? We know it also uses dual-issue to help with these tasks.

 

[Jim Ryan]

Sales are gonna be very strong for the next three years with this upgrade combined with GTA6 and yet to be announced first party.