Is Until Dawn going to be a disaster?

mibu no ookami

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Not only has Ballistic Moon had layoffs ahead of the games release which is never a great sign, but Sony has basically wiped this game off the face of reality electing to promote Silent Hills 2 more than it.

It wasn't even shown during the State of Play despite coming out next month.

I'm not sure how they could screw up this remake, but things aren't looking good, yet Sony isn't willing to delay the game nor are they willing to drop the price of the game (a price they just announced recently). 60 bucks is going to kill this game if it is in rough shape. Whereas launching it for between 20-40 might have seen some traction even if it wasn't perfect. They announced this price point barely over a month ago...

I had really hoped Ballistic Moon would represent a 2nd chance for Supermassive Games. It's a genre of games that should be built out more, especially on consoles, but sometimes things just don't work out, I guess.
 
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Vertigo

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it’s gonna be a disaster because no one cares buy it. This game always had fake hype and reception. If development when to shit… cancel and bin it for good.

Most pointless remaster ever. Will be ps plus fodder less than six months from launch.

Guaranteed flop.
 
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mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

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it’s gonna be a disaster because no one gives a shit to ever buy it . If development when to shit… cancel and bin it for good.

Most pointless remaster ever. Will be ps plus fodder less than six months from launch.

Guaranteed flop.

I think they should last minute offer a cheap upgrade for existing owners: 10 dollars and drop the base price to 40.

But if the game is fundamentally broken... I'm not sure any amount of money is worth it.

If it was a competent remake, I don't know why it would be a disaster, nor why Sony would give it no marketing, but at this point it just looks like they're giving up on the game until the movie comes out, and they hope to get some people to buy it without looking at reviews.
 
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mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

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For more context, this game comes out on Friday... It's wild that it didn't have a final trailer for the State of Play.

Definitely seems like they're trying to hide its release, which will only be more confirmed by a day of embargo.
 

Petekilla

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it’s gonna be a disaster because no one cares buy it. This game always had fake hype and reception. If development when to shit… cancel and bin it for good.

Most pointless remaster ever. Will be ps plus fodder less than six months from launch.

Guaranteed flop.
Not defending what they’re doing. But they remastered it, because of the movie that’s coming out. Sony has data that when a movie or tv show of their IP gets released, people go out and buy the game of the film or tv show that they saw. So Sony wants to have a modern up to date version of that game. That’s the reason why Days Gone is probably getting a remaster, because there’s a movie coming out.
 
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Dick Jones

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The biggest take away from this is whether Ballistic Moon can make a game well or not. The sales won't be the major factor in this. Sony will be looking at development and whether it is worth continuing the partnership with a studio stuffed with Supermassive's talent. If the game come in under budget with no major fuck ups in development, it will be a success for Sony without spending too much on a major gamble.

FYI the game doesn't need a remake, it's fucking gorgeous. Buy the PS4 version if you haven't already. I'd platinum it again if it had a 10 euro upgrade path. I'll wait for sales otherwise
 

Airbus

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Already played the game on ps4 and have no interest buying the game again

Id rather buy directive 8020
 
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mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

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The biggest take away from this is whether Ballistic Moon can make a game well or not. The sales won't be the major factor in this. Sony will be looking at development and whether it is worth continuing the partnership with a studio stuffed with Supermassive's talent. If the game come in under budget with no major fuck ups in development, it will be a success for Sony without spending too much on a major gamble.

FYI the game doesn't need a remake, it's fucking gorgeous. Buy the PS4 version if you haven't already. I'd platinum it again if it had a 10 euro upgrade path. I'll wait for sales otherwise

If Sony's takeaway was that they were impressed with the results, I doubt we would have seen layoffs at the studio. That's a sign that Sony isn't engaging them in future projects due to dissatisfaction with this project. The lack of marketing for this game mirrors that. To not even show the game during the State of Play, where they should free Astro Bot DLC and a 10 dollar upgrade for a remaster, suggests Sony wants people to forget this game even exists.

Surprised they didn't delay the game to at least avoid reputational damage. The movie won't be out for at least another 9 or so months, so what's the rush? Just to get some Halloween sales?

I just don't know how you mess the game up.

I think they would generate more sales with an upgrade path, that at least gets more people talking about the game, but again maybe they don't want people talking about it.
 

Yurinka

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Is Until Dawn going to be a disaster?​

I think that no, I bet will be profitable with pretty moderate sales. According to the Insomniac leak, it did sell 4M as of February 2022, which is pretty good for horror/survival horror games that aren't Resident Evil or Five Nights at Freddy's.

It's fair to assume that the remake/remaster will sell less than the original in console, because most people interested on it already had it, and the improvemnts I think won't bring a lot of people more, but pretty likely a big portion of existing fans would pay $10 for the upgrade.

In PC, I assume it should less than the ports/remasters of bigger seller titles like Horizon, GoW or SpiderMan. But in PC some horror games are particularly popular, so who knows.

I think this remaster+pc port is just the first step to grow the IP with upcoming movie and sequel.

But well, for the usual doomers it's going to be a disaster even if it sells way more than Sony expect.

Not only has Ballistic Moon had layoffs ahead of the games release which is never a great sign, but Sony has basically wiped this game off the face of reality electing to promote Silent Hills 2 more than it.
Layoffs pretty much means that the studio didn't have signed another project to work to work on just after the game, so they could move there the people as they were completing the job on Until Dawn. It must be in Gold, meaning most people already completed their job there.

Studios normally have budgeted a few extra months for each project to keep the people after release making a bridge until their next project. But quite often there are delays paid by the publisher until run out of budget, and if goes beyond it sometimes it's the dev studio who pays the extra work outside the budget. Meaning, this extra could have eaten part of the money they had for the bridget.

At the same time, studios normally make yearly appraisal reviews, and also at the end of a project when making a postmortem. And that normally results on some people getting fired or replaced. And well, some people are also hired temporarily for a project.

And well, there's a good chunk of former Supermassive devs at Firesprite, maybe what happened was that as certain people completed their work on the remake moved to Firesprite to work in the sequel.

Regarding the marketing, Until Dawn it's a remake/remaster/rerelease of a game that didn't sell a lot, so I assume they may not see a huge sales potential there. And as such, the marketing effort on it is limited thwn compared to brand new titles or with remakes/remasters of super sellers. It wouldn't make sense to spend the same marketing on this than in the next new SpiderMan, Horizon, GoW etc.

So nothing special to worry about, it's just usual business.

It wasn't even shown during the State of Play despite coming out next month.
Gore content gets censored in Japan, and particularly violent games normally aren't approved in China. So I think it was understandable to keep it away from the preTGS SoP. Maybe that is the reason of why they did use other games fot the SoP. I assume closer to launch there will be the usual launch trailer, reviews, blog post etc.

I'm not sure how they could screw up this remake
Nothing leads to think they screw up anything.

If you expect it to sell like SpiderMan 2 or Helldivers 2, or expected to see a marketing campaign comparable to SpiderMan 2, Astrobot or a remaster/remake/PC port of titles that sold like 15M+/20M+ copies maybe your expectations aren't realistic.

Sony isn't willing to delay the game
There's no known reason to delay it.

nor are they willing to drop the price of the game (a price they just announced recently). 60 bucks is going to kill this game if it is in rough shape. Whereas launching it for between 20-40 might have seen some traction even if it wasn't perfect. They announced this price point barely over a month ago...
They are releasing at the price they consider for the remasters/remakes, full priced. Pretty likely with a $10 upgrade in case of console for those who bought the original one.

I had really hoped Ballistic Moon would represent a 2nd chance for Supermassive Games. It's a genre of games that should be built out more, especially on consoles, but sometimes things just don't work out, I guess.
There's a portion of the Supermassive who made Until Dawn at Ballistic Moon and another one at Firesprite. I assume Sony's plan is to release this not to sell a lot (and particularly now, I see it more as a long term thing) but instead to keep the game more fresh and tweaked specially for the PC port and upcoming movie, and to warm up devs and players for a sequel.

Their idea is to pump the IP with the combo of remaster/PC port/movie/sequel, being this remaster+PC port the smaller step in the combo. Maybe they made it with the idea of selling units mostly in the future with the movie and the sequel, more than now.
 
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it’s gonna be a disaster because no one cares buy it. This game always had fake hype and reception. If development when to shit… cancel and bin it for good.

Most pointless remaster ever. Will be ps plus fodder less than six months from launch.

Guaranteed flop.

Have it on my PS+ catalog and never even bothered to download it. Not sure why master it when it's a niche game.
 
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shrike0fth0rns

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Not only has Ballistic Moon had layoffs ahead of the games release which is never a great sign, but Sony has basically wiped this game off the face of reality electing to promote Silent Hills 2 more than it.

It wasn't even shown during the State of Play despite coming out next month.

I'm not sure how they could screw up this remake, but things aren't looking good, yet Sony isn't willing to delay the game nor are they willing to drop the price of the game (a price they just announced recently). 60 bucks is going to kill this game if it is in rough shape. Whereas launching it for between 20-40 might have seen some traction even if it wasn't perfect. They announced this price point barely over a month ago...

I had really hoped Ballistic Moon would represent a 2nd chance for Supermassive Games. It's a genre of games that should be built out more, especially on consoles, but sometimes things just don't work out, I guess.
Layoffs has nothing to do with the quality of the game. They had layoffs because they were hired to do until dawn and once their work was done they had nothing else lined up. This isn't the remake of a huge ip it doesn't need lots of advertising and I don't think Sony is expecting it to move a lot of units until the film launched next year. This genre of games aren't block busters they do ok.
 
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mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

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I think that no, I bet will be profitable with pretty moderate sales. According to the Insomniac leak, it did sell 4M as of February 2022, which is pretty good for horror/survival horror games that aren't Resident Evil or Five Nights at Freddy's.

It's fair to assume that the remake/remaster will sell less than the original in console, because most people interested on it already had it, and the improvemnts I think won't bring a lot of people more, but pretty likely a big portion of existing fans would pay $10 for the upgrade.

In PC, I assume it should less than the ports/remasters of bigger seller titles like Horizon, GoW or SpiderMan. But in PC some horror games are particularly popular, so who knows.

I think this remaster+pc port is just the first step to grow the IP with upcoming movie and sequel.

But well, for the usual doomers it's going to be a disaster even if it sells way more than Sony expect.


Perhaps more important than be a financial failure is being a critical failure. To the degree in which SIE has distanced themselves from this game, there must be a litany of technical issues with the console and/or PC version.

Layoffs pretty much means that the studio didn't have signed another project to work to work on just after the game, so they could move there the people as they were completing the job on Until Dawn. It must be in Gold, meaning most people already completed their job there.

Studios normally have budgeted a few extra months for each project to keep the people after release making a bridge until their next project. But quite often there are delays paid by the publisher until run out of budget, and if goes beyond it sometimes it's the dev studio who pays the extra work outside the budget. Meaning, this extra could have eaten part of the money they had for the bridget.

At the same time, studios normally make yearly appraisal reviews, and also at the end of a project when making a postmortem. And that normally results on some people getting fired or replaced. And well, some people are also hired temporarily for a project.

This was not BAU and the fact that they don't have another project lined up or financing for it, suggests that Sony was not impressed with their results. You can already tell they didn't make the serious investments that would have normally made sense with this game. I was surprised when they didn't announce a VR mode for instance.

You'd be right except that fact that you're ignoring and dismissing every other issue surrounding the game.


And well, there's a good chunk of former Supermassive devs at Firesprite, maybe what happened was that as certain people completed their work on the remake moved to Firesprite to work in the sequel.

Regarding the marketing, Until Dawn it's a remake/remaster/rerelease of a game that didn't sell a lot, so I assume they may not see a huge sales potential there. And as such, the marketing effort on it is limited thwn compared to brand new titles or with remakes/remasters of super sellers. It wouldn't make sense to spend the same marketing on this than in the next new SpiderMan, Horizon, GoW etc.

So nothing special to worry about, it's just usual business.


Gore content gets censored in Japan, and particularly violent games normally aren't approved in China. So I think it was understandable to keep it away from the preTGS SoP. Maybe that is the reason of why they did use other games fot the SoP. I assume closer to launch there will be the usual launch trailer, reviews, blog post etc.

You're turning into the king of strawman arguments. You speculate on things without any evidence and dismiss things with plenty of evidence.

There was a gameplay trailer for Until Dawn posted by PlayStation Japan just 3 months ago and another trailer just a month ago.

If they didn't see potential they wouldn't have greenlit the game. Again, it is getting less publicity than a free DLC for Astro Bot. It's not like they're paying youtube or there is a cost associated with the length of the state of play. They could easily have put in video for the game. It's clear the marketing budget has been reduced for the game to the point where they're no longer pushing it.

Nothing leads to think they screw up anything.

See above.

If you expect it to sell like SpiderMan 2 or Helldivers 2, or expected to see a marketing campaign comparable to SpiderMan 2, Astrobot or a remaster/remake/PC port of titles that sold like 15M+/20M+ copies maybe your expectations aren't realistic.

Another strawman.

There's no known reason to delay it.

We'll see.
They are releasing at the price they consider for the remasters/remakes, full priced. Pretty likely with a $10 upgrade in case of console for those who bought the original one.

There is no 10 dollar upgrade. This is not a remaster, it is a remake.
There's a portion of the Supermassive who made Until Dawn at Ballistic Moon and another one at Firesprite. I assume Sony's plan is to release this not to sell a lot (and particularly now, I see it more as a long term thing) but instead to keep the game more fresh and tweaked specially for the PC port and upcoming movie, and to warm up devs and players for a sequel.

No supermassive is not the founders of Firesprite.

Their idea is to pump the IP with the combo of remaster/PC port/movie/sequel, being this remaster+PC port the smaller step in the combo. Maybe they made it with the idea of selling units mostly in the future with the movie and the sequel, more than now.

No other PlayStation game has received this little marketing with the exception of Firewall Ultra which was also a complete disaster.
 

ksdixon

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I want it to be a remake. I remember something about the chapter bumpers, I think there was an outcome you couldnt actually trigger in the game, but it had been in a chapter bumper? Simillar to Life Is Strange 1 and its dropped Nathan story.
 

Danja

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It would take a lot to make this game a disaster but I did find it weird they didn't use Decima Engine for the remake as well. Either way I don't think this game is really for us, so the price will drop rather quick anyways
 

Old Gamer

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I think the Until Dawn remaster is a pretty low risk project. It does unfortunately contribute a little to "remaster fatigue", but I don't see them losing a lot of money on it even if it doesn't sell. 🤷‍♂️
 
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TheLastOfSnatcher

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Sony is baking hard on the Until Dawn IP.

The movie is currently in the works as well. Don't know why Sony decided to hide UD at the last SOP, yet again, that SOP was a snoozefest till Sony remembered they have to release games and decided to tease Ghost at the end of show.

I can't write off UD yet. I have a feeling it will sell good (especially on PC)
The game truly seems like a remake using a whole new engine and even providing additional content, new camera angles etc

I'm personally a huge fan of UD and I preorder this game a long time ago. Unless the game is mechanically broken, it should be alright.

Nonetheless, the whole situation with Ballistic is beyond awful, and I see that as a foul stench left in the room when it comes to this game.

Will see what happens in a few days.