Is Until Dawn going to be a disaster?

CrackmanNL

Well-known member
4 Apr 2024
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Independent from PS Studios, but still a 100% fully owned SIE subsidiary that reports to the SIE CEO.
Yes and the strategy has shifted for Bungie which you dismissed. Literally pointed out that Hermen and Lempel are on the board since acquisition.
Whatever Ballistic Moon does after the remake for someone else, isn't funded by Sony.
Comes near what I have been saying about growing organically based on results opposite of the age of growth mantra which you dismissed. Sony is not funding beyond Until Dawn and the studio had to make cutbacks.
 

Yurinka

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21 Jun 2022
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Yes and the strategy has shifted for Bungie which you dismissed. Literally pointed out that Hermen and Lempel are on the board since acquisition.
Yes, I said it before you. They are there since the acquisition, and Bungie is a fully owned subsidiary since then.

The strategy for Bungie didn't change: they will continue making Destiny, Marathon and other stuff as a separate publishing label from PS Studios releasing all their games and DLC day one in all platforms, unlike the titles in PS Studios.

Comes near what I have been saying about growing organically based on results opposite of the age of growth mantra which you dismissed.
I didn't dismiss anything. One of the things they did in the past mid-term plan was to grow via investment and acquisitions. In gaming they enlarged existing teams, acquired other ones and made investments. You call it "age of growth", not Sony or me.

Sony said that in the previous mid-term plan they did plant many seeds, and in the current one they expect to start to collect the related fruits, and basically will wait a bit for them before planting more.

Sony is not funding beyond Until Dawn and the studio had to make cutbacks.
Ballistic Moon is an external companty they don't own, that Sony only hired for a remake. So Sony will only fund that remake. Not whatever project they could have -or not- beyond that.

Just like From Software, Ballistic Moon is a 3rd party studio hired for a 2nd party game: Sony funded Bloodborne, another 2nd party project, and hired FromSoft for the project. Sony only signed and paid that. So Sony didn't fund them for the development of Sekiro or Elden Ring, other publishers paid FromSoft to make these other projects.

If some time later Sony decides to make other project with FromSoft, as was the case of Deracine, they sign a deal for that game and pay a certain amount of money to make just that game.
 

Zzero

Major Tom
9 Jan 2023
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Isn't this just a remaster? Who even cares, it will be the PS3 game with more detailed art assets and 60 frames if it didn't already have that.
 

CrackmanNL

Well-known member
4 Apr 2024
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Bungie is a fully owned SIE subsidiary, just like Naughty Dog or PlayStation Spain. Like ND, Bungie has creative freedom but reports to Hermen Hulst. The only difference is that Sony considered to keep Bungie as a different publishing label to differentiate them from PS Studios because Sony wants Bungie games to continue being full multiplatform day one including rival consoles, unlike PS Studios titles.
Yes, I said it before you. They are there since the acquisition, and Bungie is a fully owned subsidiary since then.
No you didn't, strange to say you did. You rather displayed being uninformed how the board operated same for the cuts at Firesprite while you claimed they could poach devs from Ballistic Moon there.
And I find it interesting you are contradicting yourself by saying yourself Bungie as a separate live-service publisher and arguing against it with me. If you believe it hasn't scaled down that's on you all the reports and lay-offs prove otherwise.
Basically arguing for the sake of it.

Ballistic Moon is an external companty they don't own, that Sony only hired for a remake. So Sony will only fund that remake. Not whatever project they could have -or not- beyond that.
We've had a back and forth multiple times, I don't get this argument either. You are basically confirming what I said. Looks like Sony is not investing beyond UD so they have to make cutbacks. We will find out about the listing eventually. You bring up irrelevant other studios and examples.

In gaming they enlarged existing teams, acquired other ones and made investments. You call it "age of growth", not Sony or me.
Sony said that in the previous mid-term plan they did plant many seeds, and in the current one they expect to start to collect the related fruits, and basically will wait a bit for them before planting more.
Never claimed you or Sony did, I called that the scaling up under Jim Ryan vs the contrast to Totoki. Again you are confirming what I am saying. But are arguing against it, strange. I'll leave it at this.
 

arvfab

Slayer of Colossi
23 Jun 2022
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Isn't this just a remaster? Who even cares, it will be the PS3 game with more detailed art assets and 60 frames if it didn't already have that.

It's called "Remake" AND it's from a PS4 game. That's why it feels pretty unnecessary.
 
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mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

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Isn't this just a remaster? Who even cares, it will be the PS3 game with more detailed art assets and 60 frames if it didn't already have that.

4K60 is the desired outcome of the game. That doesn't mean it won't have technical issues or re-production problems, which is the only reason I can think of that Sony would be distancing themselves from this so late in the game.
 

Yurinka

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No you didn't, strange to say you did. You rather displayed being uninformed how the board operated same for the cuts at Firesprite while you claimed they could poach devs from Ballistic Moon there.
And I find it interesting you are contradicting yourself by saying yourself Bungie as a separate live-service publisher and arguing against it with me. If you believe it hasn't scaled down that's on you all the reports and lay-offs prove otherwise.
Basically arguing for the sake of it.
Nah, I didn't contradict with myself. As I mentioned, when Bungie was acquired SIE did put some people in the board of directors of Bungie for further controlling it other than having it reporting to SIE as a subsidiary. Obviously having a creative freedom but within the rails of the strategy of the mother company and reporting periodically, specially for quarterly fiscal reports, for approval of games and milestones etc. and following the company strategy and best practices. This is pretty typical in gamedev studio acquisitions.

Sony has multiple publishing gaming labels, and particularly inside SIE they have PS Studios and Bungie. Similar to MS having Activision, Blizzard, King, Bethesda or Xbox Game Studios. Due to different marketing reasons, companies who acquire sometimes dissolve the acquired brand merging it within another one, and sometimes decide to keep it as it was depending on what is better for them on each case. So players may see a different name as publisher in the store, trailers or game intros, but are still controlled subsidiaries of who bought them and they wouldn't do anything against the strategy and interests of their monther company, like in any company.

I'm perfectly familiar and well informed on first and second hand on how gamedev acquisitions work. I worked in a studio that was acquired by a Trip Hawkins company and later Ubisoft. And people who left the studio to create another one got acquired by King, later Activision and later MS. Or another people by Scopely, which later got acquired by I think were the Saudis. And have several friends on very top positions of studios acquired by people like Infinity Ward, Tencent or Take 2. And more I may forget now.

We've had a back and forth multiple times, I don't get this argument either. You are basically confirming what I said. Looks like Sony is not investing beyond UD so they have to make cutbacks. We will find out about the listing eventually. You bring up irrelevant other studios and examples.
Nah, it isn't irrelevant: a publisher signs a contract with a dev for a project, and normally the publisher funds that project and that's all.

Costs that the dev has outside or after that project aren't funded by that publisher. The dev has to find investors who invest in the studio, get some public grant, self fund with money from other projects or get some publisher (which can be this same or another one) who may fund other projects to continue forward.

So if beyond UD Ballistic Moon didn't find additional fundings or projects it's their fault, not Sony's. Sony simply pays them for that specific project whatever they signed at the start of the project according the conditions they agreed back then.
 
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mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

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lol, when is the review embargo for this game? It's a remake so we're not really talking story spoilers here... I'm definitely getting the sense that this is a train wreck of a remake...
 
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mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

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The first 3 hours dropped.

They should have priced this at 40 dollars. Even if it isn't a train wreck (it still doesn't look great) it's going to get crowded out at 60 dollars, especially with no marketing behind it.

I think for a remake this looks poor, especially for an UE5 game. They could have sold this as a remaster with an upgrade option for existing owners and probably would have gotten a bigger bite on console.

Based on what I'm seeing in this video, I would have done a 10 dollar upgrade and sold it for 40 for new buyers.

Edit: The lighting, animations, facial animations all look terribly off and there is a weird shimmer with movements... This game is going to review in the 60s or low 70s.