Is Until Dawn going to be a disaster?

CrackmanNL

Veteran
4 Apr 2024
526
444
Independent from PS Studios, but still a 100% fully owned SIE subsidiary that reports to the SIE CEO.
Yes and the strategy has shifted for Bungie which you dismissed. Literally pointed out that Hermen and Lempel are on the board since acquisition.
Whatever Ballistic Moon does after the remake for someone else, isn't funded by Sony.
Comes near what I have been saying about growing organically based on results opposite of the age of growth mantra which you dismissed. Sony is not funding beyond Until Dawn and the studio had to make cutbacks.
 

Yurinka

Veteran
VIP
21 Jun 2022
7,649
6,515
Yes and the strategy has shifted for Bungie which you dismissed. Literally pointed out that Hermen and Lempel are on the board since acquisition.
Yes, I said it before you. They are there since the acquisition, and Bungie is a fully owned subsidiary since then.

The strategy for Bungie didn't change: they will continue making Destiny, Marathon and other stuff as a separate publishing label from PS Studios releasing all their games and DLC day one in all platforms, unlike the titles in PS Studios.

Comes near what I have been saying about growing organically based on results opposite of the age of growth mantra which you dismissed.
I didn't dismiss anything. One of the things they did in the past mid-term plan was to grow via investment and acquisitions. In gaming they enlarged existing teams, acquired other ones and made investments. You call it "age of growth", not Sony or me.

Sony said that in the previous mid-term plan they did plant many seeds, and in the current one they expect to start to collect the related fruits, and basically will wait a bit for them before planting more.

Sony is not funding beyond Until Dawn and the studio had to make cutbacks.
Ballistic Moon is an external companty they don't own, that Sony only hired for a remake. So Sony will only fund that remake. Not whatever project they could have -or not- beyond that.

Just like From Software, Ballistic Moon is a 3rd party studio hired for a 2nd party game: Sony funded Bloodborne, another 2nd party project, and hired FromSoft for the project. Sony only signed and paid that. So Sony didn't fund them for the development of Sekiro or Elden Ring, other publishers paid FromSoft to make these other projects.

If some time later Sony decides to make other project with FromSoft, as was the case of Deracine, they sign a deal for that game and pay a certain amount of money to make just that game.
 

Zzero

Major Tom
9 Jan 2023
3,938
2,287
Isn't this just a remaster? Who even cares, it will be the PS3 game with more detailed art assets and 60 frames if it didn't already have that.
 

CrackmanNL

Veteran
4 Apr 2024
526
444
Bungie is a fully owned SIE subsidiary, just like Naughty Dog or PlayStation Spain. Like ND, Bungie has creative freedom but reports to Hermen Hulst. The only difference is that Sony considered to keep Bungie as a different publishing label to differentiate them from PS Studios because Sony wants Bungie games to continue being full multiplatform day one including rival consoles, unlike PS Studios titles.
Yes, I said it before you. They are there since the acquisition, and Bungie is a fully owned subsidiary since then.
No you didn't, strange to say you did. You rather displayed being uninformed how the board operated same for the cuts at Firesprite while you claimed they could poach devs from Ballistic Moon there.
And I find it interesting you are contradicting yourself by saying yourself Bungie as a separate live-service publisher and arguing against it with me. If you believe it hasn't scaled down that's on you all the reports and lay-offs prove otherwise.
Basically arguing for the sake of it.

Ballistic Moon is an external companty they don't own, that Sony only hired for a remake. So Sony will only fund that remake. Not whatever project they could have -or not- beyond that.
We've had a back and forth multiple times, I don't get this argument either. You are basically confirming what I said. Looks like Sony is not investing beyond UD so they have to make cutbacks. We will find out about the listing eventually. You bring up irrelevant other studios and examples.

In gaming they enlarged existing teams, acquired other ones and made investments. You call it "age of growth", not Sony or me.
Sony said that in the previous mid-term plan they did plant many seeds, and in the current one they expect to start to collect the related fruits, and basically will wait a bit for them before planting more.
Never claimed you or Sony did, I called that the scaling up under Jim Ryan vs the contrast to Totoki. Again you are confirming what I am saying. But are arguing against it, strange. I'll leave it at this.
 

arvfab

Slayer of Colossi
23 Jun 2022
3,057
4,246
Isn't this just a remaster? Who even cares, it will be the PS3 game with more detailed art assets and 60 frames if it didn't already have that.

It's called "Remake" AND it's from a PS4 game. That's why it feels pretty unnecessary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: J_Paganel
OP
OP
mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

Veteran
21 Feb 2024
1,944
1,676
Isn't this just a remaster? Who even cares, it will be the PS3 game with more detailed art assets and 60 frames if it didn't already have that.

4K60 is the desired outcome of the game. That doesn't mean it won't have technical issues or re-production problems, which is the only reason I can think of that Sony would be distancing themselves from this so late in the game.
 

Yurinka

Veteran
VIP
21 Jun 2022
7,649
6,515
No you didn't, strange to say you did. You rather displayed being uninformed how the board operated same for the cuts at Firesprite while you claimed they could poach devs from Ballistic Moon there.
And I find it interesting you are contradicting yourself by saying yourself Bungie as a separate live-service publisher and arguing against it with me. If you believe it hasn't scaled down that's on you all the reports and lay-offs prove otherwise.
Basically arguing for the sake of it.
Nah, I didn't contradict with myself. As I mentioned, when Bungie was acquired SIE did put some people in the board of directors of Bungie for further controlling it other than having it reporting to SIE as a subsidiary. Obviously having a creative freedom but within the rails of the strategy of the mother company and reporting periodically, specially for quarterly fiscal reports, for approval of games and milestones etc. and following the company strategy and best practices. This is pretty typical in gamedev studio acquisitions.

Sony has multiple publishing gaming labels, and particularly inside SIE they have PS Studios and Bungie. Similar to MS having Activision, Blizzard, King, Bethesda or Xbox Game Studios. Due to different marketing reasons, companies who acquire sometimes dissolve the acquired brand merging it within another one, and sometimes decide to keep it as it was depending on what is better for them on each case. So players may see a different name as publisher in the store, trailers or game intros, but are still controlled subsidiaries of who bought them and they wouldn't do anything against the strategy and interests of their monther company, like in any company.

I'm perfectly familiar and well informed on first and second hand on how gamedev acquisitions work. I worked in a studio that was acquired by a Trip Hawkins company and later Ubisoft. And people who left the studio to create another one got acquired by King, later Activision and later MS. Or another people by Scopely, which later got acquired by I think were the Saudis. And have several friends on very top positions of studios acquired by people like Infinity Ward, Tencent or Take 2. And more I may forget now.

We've had a back and forth multiple times, I don't get this argument either. You are basically confirming what I said. Looks like Sony is not investing beyond UD so they have to make cutbacks. We will find out about the listing eventually. You bring up irrelevant other studios and examples.
Nah, it isn't irrelevant: a publisher signs a contract with a dev for a project, and normally the publisher funds that project and that's all.

Costs that the dev has outside or after that project aren't funded by that publisher. The dev has to find investors who invest in the studio, get some public grant, self fund with money from other projects or get some publisher (which can be this same or another one) who may fund other projects to continue forward.

So if beyond UD Ballistic Moon didn't find additional fundings or projects it's their fault, not Sony's. Sony simply pays them for that specific project whatever they signed at the start of the project according the conditions they agreed back then.
 
OP
OP
mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

Veteran
21 Feb 2024
1,944
1,676
lol, when is the review embargo for this game? It's a remake so we're not really talking story spoilers here... I'm definitely getting the sense that this is a train wreck of a remake...
 
OP
OP
mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

Veteran
21 Feb 2024
1,944
1,676


The first 3 hours dropped.

They should have priced this at 40 dollars. Even if it isn't a train wreck (it still doesn't look great) it's going to get crowded out at 60 dollars, especially with no marketing behind it.

I think for a remake this looks poor, especially for an UE5 game. They could have sold this as a remaster with an upgrade option for existing owners and probably would have gotten a bigger bite on console.

Based on what I'm seeing in this video, I would have done a 10 dollar upgrade and sold it for 40 for new buyers.

Edit: The lighting, animations, facial animations all look terribly off and there is a weird shimmer with movements... This game is going to review in the 60s or low 70s.
 
OP
OP
mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

Veteran
21 Feb 2024
1,944
1,676
Ignoring my feelings on the footage I've seen of the games first 30 or so minutes, Stevivor needs to be banned from Metacritic after his latest review giving his game a 35 because he felt like the remake wasn't needed.

No games are "needed."

If you feel like that you don't have to review the game. I won't give him traffic by clicking on the review, but it seems like he is absolutely trying to weigh down the eventual score.
 
  • brain
Reactions: Gods&Monsters

Vertigo

Did you show the Darkness what Light can do?
26 Jun 2022
5,419
4,920
it’s gonna be a disaster because no one cares buy it. This game always had fake hype and reception. If development when to shit… cancel and bin it for good.

Most pointless remaster ever. Will be ps plus fodder less than six months from launch.

Guaranteed flop.

e80b7991eef94ed0bfbdf65a7699c25853c43792r1-364-276_00.gif
 

Gods&Monsters

Veteran
21 Jun 2022
5,525
11,241
The answer to my question appears to be yes.
Yes you were right the game is a disaster and it's flopping bad on Steam. PC was the reason the remake was made at all but they misread the PC market once again. Maybe they will finally take a long hard look and realize they are losing their brand chasing customers that despise them?

I made a thread about it but you got me on ignore so you didn't see it and you're not participating 😢
 
OP
OP
mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

Veteran
21 Feb 2024
1,944
1,676
Yes you were right the game is a disaster and it's flopping bad on Steam. PC was the reason the remake was made at all but they misread the PC market once again. Maybe they will finally take a long hard look and realize they are losing their brand chasing customers that despise them?

I made a thread about it but you got me on ignore so you didn't see it and you're not participating 😢

Can you see that you have an agenda and that agenda is why you're on ignore?

When you come to a conclusion before having facts, everything you see has to fit your agenda whether it is true or not.

This was made because of PC? Who said that? It's not true. It was made because of Sony's transmedia strategy and their desire to build out their IP. Does that include PC? Absolutely, but you'll notice something is missing. This games' movie isn't out yet.

Whether it be on PS5 or PC, they were clearly aiming for hardcore fans of the franchise to pay the 60. When the movie comes out, I wouldn't be surprised if this drops to as low as 20 dollars.
 
OP
OP
mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

Veteran
21 Feb 2024
1,944
1,676
Can you see that you have an agenda and that agenda is why you're on ignore?

When you come to a conclusion before having facts, everything you see has to fit your agenda whether it is true or not.

This was made because of PC? Who said that? It's not true. It was made because of Sony's transmedia strategy and their desire to build out their IP. Does that include PC? Absolutely, but you'll notice something is missing. This games' movie isn't out yet.

Whether it be on PS5 or PC, they were clearly aiming for hardcore fans of the franchise to pay the 60. When the movie comes out, I wouldn't be surprised if this drops to as low as 20 dollars.

I'll add to this that it's also about studio evaluation. Sony is constantly evaluating studios that it can work with in the future. It's a low risk high reward situation, but fans don't see the business end of it nor are they interested in process-oriented approaches.

If Ballistic had done well here, Sony would have funded them and turned them into the next Supermassive games, which probably would have lead to the hiring of a lot of laid off staff from supermassive. The offices are like 15 minutes apart and its clear they had hoped to poach.

Most likely Sony's is done with them, but hopefully another publisher gives them another crack.
 

Gods&Monsters

Veteran
21 Jun 2022
5,525
11,241
This was made because of PC? Who said that? It's not true. It was made because of Sony's transmedia strategy and their desire to build out their IP. Does that include PC? Absolutely, but you'll notice something is missing. This games' movie isn't out yet.
They were never going to greenlight a full on expensive remake if it was another exclusive. They would just make a patch. Their eyes were shining with penis PC envy back then, around the time they got Nixxes and everything was going PC.

The strategy badly failed and now Until Dawn is coming out after Concord, low HFW sales, low Ragnarok sales, PSN link debacle, review-bombing, etc. It just keeps piling on and PlayStation is going in down the gutter. The most hated brand in gaming circles. They better pray it doesn't catch the mainstream 😬

That's why you got me on ignore you can't admit what's right in front of you.
 
OP
OP
mibu no ookami

mibu no ookami

Veteran
21 Feb 2024
1,944
1,676
They were never going to greenlight a full on expensive remake if it was another exclusive. They would just make a patch. Their eyes were shining with penis PC envy back then, around the time they got Nixxes and everything was going PC.

See this is where you're partially right, but it's not just remakes and remasters. Projects can't continue to get greenlit at all with rising budgets if they're going to be exclusive.

No Sony game has ever sold 30 million units. They barely top 20 million. As budgets continue to rise, risks continue to rise along with them, and margins diminish.

You don't like games going to PC (for whatever weird reason), but ignoring that, PC is a pretty small part of the puzzle here. You don't think Sony knows how much PC ports cost or how much they're getting back from PC ports? They absolutely do. So there is a disconnect somewhere where you can't bridge that PC ports are profitable for them, but that doesn't mean their entire strategy is around PC ports.

The strategy badly failed and now Until Dawn is coming out after Concord, low HFW sales, low Ragnarok sales, PSN link debacle, review-bombing, etc. It just keeps piling on and PlayStation is going in down the gutter. The most hated brand in gaming circles. They better pray it doesn't catch the mainstream 😬

That's why you got me on ignore you can't admit what's right in front of you.

Why are you leaving out Helldivers, possibly their best-selling game of all time?

Concord was a flop on PS5 as well.

HFW, Ragnarok, e.t.c. is all about transmedia. Do you deny this? Can you tell me what happened to sales of Fallout games on Steam after the TV show came out?

You've got to put your agenda and bias against PC aside.