Peter Moore former VP at MSFT: Final Console Generation, MS 3rd Party, putting Halo on PS, leaving the market & whether there is a need for consoles.

[Gamernyc78]

Microsoft Will Be Debating Right Now Whether Xbox Consoles Have a Future, Says Peter Moore - IGN

IGN interviews ex-Xbox boss Peter Moore about the future of video game consoles and asks: is this generation the last?

www.ign.com

It Turns out That Xbox and Microsoft Have Been Planning to Leave the Console Gaming Market for Over 15 Years!

During the Xbox 360 era, the team behind Xbox almost gave up on the console entirely. However, they decided to passively keep this philosophy.

fandomwire.com

• Based on an interview with the former head of Xbox, the console generation was pretty much coming to an end after the Xbox 360.
• This was due to unexpected sales and a lack of projected vision for the console era going forward.
• Fortunately, a shift towards newer technology, especially cloud gaming, has changed the industry's perspective.

The broader picture — and we certainly feared during my time even at Microsoft — we were saying then, in 2007, is this the last console generation? Do televisions start to come with chips that can play games and you just need a controller? Is the PC, as it was then, a renaissance? And why do you need a bespoke piece of hardware that costs us, Microsoft, billions upon billions of dollars to install, and you hope to hell you get an attach rate of software and something out of your Xbox Live, your connected service, that would justify the losses, the hemorrhaging of cash that hardware costs you?

And then you think back now to music and gosh, Zune and iPod — and I go back to Discman and Walkman — bespoke devices that play music. Well, we don't have those anymore. And so now, whatever's streaming out of my phone on Spotify, or I listen to a lot of music on SoundCloud, but I don't have anything that plays music. Somebody gave me a DVD the other day, I have nowhere to actually look at this. Now the smartphone dominates. So gaming isn't immune to these changes in technology and viewing, listening, and playing habits.

And what are we doing? Well, we're not in the living room anymore. We're back in the bedroom with our YouTube influencers, our TikTok creators, and it's about content on demand. And we are going through the same thing in sports. So you're seeing all of these different pressures, if you will, on this next generation that Phil's talking about. Gen Z is coming through and they're going, why do I need to spend four or 500 bucks on a bespoke piece of gaming hardware when I've got my smartphone, or I got my PC or my Mac, and I can do things there with a pretty decent controller?

So I think that's what we're facing. In particular Microsoft with Azure is thinking, are we now finally ready for cloud gaming? Are we finally ready to just crank on our 8K television, get in our gaming menu with 10,000 games available? Who's playing what right now? Click, go, play.

You mentioned that even as early as 2007 internally you were wondering, is this the last console generation?

Yeah, the Xbox 360, during the back end of that. You have that concern. If you were thinking then of something that launched the mid-2000s, what does the end of the decade look like and how long the cycles were — usually five, six years — and what does it look like in five, six years? Are we going to need another? Well, the answer ultimately was yes, but the questions were being asked then. And why? Because you've got faster, cheaper broadband, more ubiquitous in just about everybody's home. I always remember this: you're looking at music and the lessons learned, and all of a sudden streaming of high definition movies was starting to happen as we had those capabilities at home. Again, gaming wasn't immune to this. The thing that kept us going was, games were 30 gigabytes then or 40 gigabytes and music was four megabytes, and a movie you could stream, but it was linear and passive.

Do you think this is the last console generation?

Well, it's a great question already. PS5 saying, yeah, maybe we could sunset this thing, but no mention of a PS6. Now look, Sony is very much a hardware company, so I would say that that's your barometer company. Microsoft, not so much. Microsoft I'm sure would love it if everything moved into the cloud. The only thing that Microsoft doesn't get to play in as well as anybody else is the smartphone business, right? Because that's where Apple, Google, the handset manufacturers will benefit from enormously and they already are. They're making tens of billions of dollars without really trying in gaming with the 30% royalties.

But I think it's a real serious question that's being asked I'm sure in Tokyo, in Redmond, Washington, in Kyoto. That's what everybody's working on right now, because when you start off that next generation, you've got to be ready to absorb billions of dollars in losses. And is the industry, given all the layoffs and everything we're going through right now, is the industry ready for that? Look at Sony laying off 900 people — a lot there in the UK. My two eldest daughters work at EA, they're all right, but they're always looking over their shoulder.

Peter, it very much sounds like you are suggesting the era of consoles might be coming to an end.

What I'm saying is the questions are being asked, as they have been for the last 20 years. Are we ready to gird our loins financially for battle and all of the cost of development, silicon development? What is it that PS6 can do that PS5 can’t that would make people jump from PS5, or same with Xbox, same with Switch, right? God forbid it's just incremental. And I think that the companies are also looking at that. What can we do to extend this life cycle?

We know Nintendo is making a next-generation console. Most people assume Sony will make a PS6. It feels like there are question marks over whether Microsoft has another meaningful generation of Xbox in it, though.

I'm not being a doomsayer. What I think Phil is doing is setting up some smoke signals that we're thinking very differently. And then the idea of, well, we bought Activision Blizzard King, but we may not make those games ultimately exclusive on our platform. There may not be a platform, and we turn into what we really had at our roots, which is a software and services company.

While you were at Sega you witnessed the company go from first-party to third-party after the failure of the Dreamcast. Can you comprehend Microsoft going third-party in the same way?

I think the words first-party and third-party may just disappear. It'll just be, we make great games and we deliver a phenomenal service on which you can play our games, and first-party and third-party, those are legacies of hardware.

I think the question that will be being asked from Nadella and the executive team to Phil is, alright, what we've just given you, whatever it was, $69 billion, but what does the next five to 10 years look like, Phil? What is the long-term strategy? Exactly what's going on right now? And yeah, they'll be like, alright, we're thinking about what the next-generation of hardware could look like. But the challenge will undoubtedly be coming from Nadella: what does it look like without hardware? And so that's going on right now, and, what do we look like if we're more like EA than we are Sony? So that's what I'm sure is going on.

Microsoft recently released some of its exclusives on PlayStation and Nintendo Switch. There are reports Microsoft is considering bringing other, more high-profile games to rival consoles. When you were in charge of Xbox, would you have ever done this? And why do you think Microsoft is doing it now?

I think they're dipping the toes in the water to see how all of this works. And you do it a little bit tentatively and go, all right, let's test the ecosystem here. We're not throwing Halo out there.

I do remember conversations about Halo on PlayStation. You're constantly looking. You get into wargaming, which we did prior to the launch of Xbox 360 as a team. We went away for a couple of days and I played the role of Ken Kutaragi, and this was fascinating to me. McKinsey, the consultancy group, set this up and the idea is you understand your competition a little better when you do some wargames.

My job was, how would PlayStation react to Xbox 360 and what would they do, as they did to me in Dreamcast with the fear, uncertainty, and doubt? We went through two days of this and we learned a lot. It scared us because you're stunned to figure out, well wait, I hadn't thought of that. You mean they might do that to us or this might happen? And so you're constantly thinking about every scenario, as ridiculous or disruptive or radical as it sounds. You have to, absolutely have to.

Once upon a time you stood on a stage and showed the world a Halo 2 tattoo to promote Xbox. Now, do you see Microsoft releasing Halo on PlayStation?

Look, if Microsoft says, wait, we're doing $250 million on our own platforms, but if we then took Halo as, let's call it a third-party, we could do a billion… You got to think long and hard about that, right? I mean, you just got to go, yeah, should it be kept? It's a piece of intellectual property. It's bigger than just a game. And how do you leverage that? Those are the conversations that always happen with, how do you leverage it in everything that we would do?

It's had its ups and downs, but look, Xbox wouldn't be what Xbox is without Halo. But yeah, I'm sure those conversations are happening. Whether they come to fruition, who knows? But they're definitely happening, I'm sure.

Do you think any potential backlash from the hardcore Xbox community at such a decision would make a meaningful difference to Microsoft?

The question would be, ultimately, is that reaction enough not to make a fundamental business decision for the future of not only Microsoft’s business, but gaming in itself? Those hardcore are getting smaller in size and older in age. You've got to cater to the generations that are coming through, because they're going to drive the business over the next 10, 20 years.

 

[flaccidsnake]

Great quotes! Peter Moore was the only good Xbox exec in my book. I think the two most important bits are here, about the cost of putting out console hardware (as Microsoft, one of the worlds richest corps!)

"And why do you need a bespoke piece of hardware that costs us, Microsoft, billions upon billions of dollars to install"

And especially this last one about ignoring complainers online who don't understand the business:

"is that reaction enough not to make a fundamental business decision for the future of not only Microsoft’s business, but gaming in itself"

 

[Danja]

Well PS5 should definitely take the incremental upgrade path going forward. There's no need for a hard reset any time soon especially with how lackluster Sony has been with utilizing it's own console this generation.

PS6 will definitely face an uphill battle sales wise, so might as well delay the inevitable for a while

 

[Jim Ryan]

The end of Xbox consoles is near. Peter knows.

PlayStation has decades ahead though and it's in Microsofts interest for PS6 + to succeed.

They will have a symbiotic relationship.

 

[Dabaus]

I feel like this is them telegraphing to their insane cult and audience what their intentions are. Like if they hear the message enough from different sources they will slowly accept it. Propaganda 101.

 

[flaccidsnake]

I feel like this is them telegraphing to their insane cult and audience what their intentions are. Like if they hear the message enough from different sources they will slowly accept it. Propaganda 101.

you're going to be blindsided if you take these statements as only affecting Xbox.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I feel like this is them telegraphing to their insane cult and audience what their intentions are. Like if they hear the message enough from different sources they will slowly accept it. Propaganda 101.

It's definitely been working fir the influencers. First phase was denial, second was outrage but then acceptance. Now it's like nothing has happened. Jez Corden is the epitome of this.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

you're going to be blindsided if you take these statements as only affecting Xbox.

And you're going to be blindsided if you think this stuff affects Sony or Nintendo to nearly the same veracity it does Microsoft. Even a cursory look at sales data would show you one is not the same as the others hence that one's shift in strategy.

IF Sony & Nintendo play their cards right they won't need to be considering similar types or levels of business operation restructurings for decades, meaning their path towards a similar end trajectory would be much more gradual. You can claim it's in inevitability, but there's a big difference in that inevitability being within arm's reach for one and miles out for others, and you don't orchestrate bad moves that negatively affect your short and mid-term just to prepare for an "inevitability" of what you feel is the long-term.

That was ultimately Microsoft's mistake. That's the mistake Sony should be avoiding. That's the mistake Nintendo are masterfully avoiding.

 

[Airbus]

Bro xbox really giving up man ign already made headlines about it

series x is the last xbox

But this makes me worried about sony

They seems to follow xbox footsteps ( porting games to pc)

 

[flaccidsnake]

And you're going to be blindsided if you think this stuff affects Sony or Nintendo to nearly the same veracity it does Microsoft. Even a cursory look at sales data would show you one is not the same as the others hence that one's shift in strategy.

IF Sony & Nintendo play their cards right they won't need to be considering similar types or levels of business operation restructurings for decades, meaning their path towards a similar end trajectory would be much more gradual. You can claim it's in inevitability, but there's a big difference in that inevitability being within arm's reach for one and miles out for others, and you don't orchestrate bad moves that negatively affect your short and mid-term just to prepare for an "inevitability" of what you feel is the long-term.

That was ultimately Microsoft's mistake. That's the mistake Sony should be avoiding. That's the mistake Nintendo are masterfully avoiding.

Sony and MS by their own executive statements are experiencing the same issues with hardware production costs. It makes sense they would be since their consoles are like 95% identical inside.

Nintendo, go with god on that. There's intelligence in selling extremely outdated hardware for 2024 money. I agree they are more buffered from the nasty trends because of that. But also I would never buy their shit for the same reason. If you like it, good for you.

 

[Johnic]

And you're going to be blindsided if you think this stuff affects Sony or Nintendo to nearly the same veracity it does Microsoft. Even a cursory look at sales data would show you one is not the same as the others hence that one's shift in strategy.

IF Sony & Nintendo play their cards right they won't need to be considering similar types or levels of business operation restructurings for decades, meaning their path towards a similar end trajectory would be much more gradual. You can claim it's in inevitability, but there's a big difference in that inevitability being within arm's reach for one and miles out for others, and you don't orchestrate bad moves that negatively affect your short and mid-term just to prepare for an "inevitability" of what you feel is the long-term.

That was ultimately Microsoft's mistake. That's the mistake Sony should be avoiding. That's the mistake Nintendo are masterfully avoiding.

He's looking at it through the lens of a PC fanboy. "More games for me day one".

Hardware is what Sony does best. That same hardware allows you to lock people into your ecosystem, buy games pay for Plus (the biggest gaming subscription). All leads to much more revenue than not having a console. Not to mention, unlike MS, Sony doesn't sell hardware at a loss.

So what does he think happens when all that revenue tied to hardware drops? How can you advocate for more good PS games on PC but at the same time cheer for their hardware closing down? It directly affects the resources Sony's able to put towards new software he, oh so, wants.

Incredibly short sighted. The guy has valid arguments at times and isn't your typical brainded fanboy but he really doesn't think things through at times.

 

[xollowsob]

Remember before the PS4 launch when the media said the PS3 would be the last Sony console?

PS6 exists (in some form) Xbox 5 does not.

Assadwhomustgo?.jpg

 

[Dabaus]

Bro xbox really giving up man ign already made headlines about it

series x is the last xbox

But this makes me worried about sony

They seems to follow xbox footsteps ( porting games to pc)

As this information trickles out, I wouldnt be surprised if software sales start to decline even more due to the uncertainty of xbox having a future. Why invest in dying platform, especially digitally?

 

[Airbus]

As this information trickles out, I wouldnt be surprised if software sales start to decline even more due to the uncertainty of xbox having a future. Why invest in dying platform, especially digitally?

Xbox is dying everyone here already know that

Whats more worying to me is ps5 showing some similar early signs right now with those xbox ( sales start to slow down and didnt met expectation)

 

[Dabaus]

Xbox is dying everyone here already know that

Whats more worying to me is ps5 showing some similar early signs right now with those xbox ( sales start to slow down didnt met expectation)

PS5 isnt showing declines anywhere near xbox.

 

[Darth Vader]

The PS4 (hardware) was profitable. The PS5 (hardware) is profitable. Playstation as a brand has had a handful of bad years, but in most years very profitable. Xbox pretty much never made a profit per leaked documents, and that's after hiding many of their expenses under Azure.

That's the fundamental different some people pretend not to understand.

Also, wasn't peter moore the guy that helped Sega commit suicide, only to move to Xbox and get a lot of their IP as exclusives to the first console? Yeah, very competent indeed!

 

[Airbus]

PS5 isnt showing declines anywhere near xbox.

Keyword not there yet

Lack new first party games

More and more first party game studio coming to pc, all the similar trait with xbox is already there

All the more reason for people to slowly skip ps5 and just go to PC

 

[Dabaus]

Not there yet

Lack new first party games

More and more first party game studio coming to pc, all the similar trait with xbox is already there

All the more reason for people to slowly skip ps5 and just go to PC

Helldivers 2 is probably close to selling 10 million in a month, rise of the ronin is next month, and stellar blade after that and youre complaining about lack of first party. I say this as a friend, log off of the internet and go outside and enjoy life. Its going to be ok.

 

[Shmunter]

“I think the words first-party and third-party may just disappear. It'll just be, we make great games and we deliver a phenomenal service on which you can play our games, and first-party and third-party, those are legacies of hardware.”

How does this make sense for an eco system? It’s perfect for 3rd party, but not a holder of an eco system / platform where a draw card must be had to get bums on seats.

 

[flaccidsnake]

“It'll just be, we make great games and we deliver a phenomenal service on which you can play our games, and first-party and third-party, those are legacies of hardware.”

How does this make sense for an eco system? It’s perfect for 3rd party, but not a holder of an eco system / platform where a draw card must be had to get bums on seats.

gaming is the ecosystem, as it should be