Lego Horizon Adventure sales are not looking good...

Yurinka

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From what I also understand, Sony seems to be doing pretty well at the moment. Though, I see there's sometimes a bit of negative sentiment about their business on the forum.
Well, they are just gaming flatearther Sony haters:

No matter how many record metrics SIE has, how many sales records they break, how many critically acclaimed games they release, how many awards and nominations they receive. And doesn't matter how many related factual data you show them that explains these things and prove their fantasies wrong.

Some of them are so mentally ill that abuse the laugh emoji putting it to these posts where you explain to them these things.

They are religiously blinded: for them Sony is doomed, everything Sony does is bad and a failure, and Hermen and Jim Ryan are supposed to be the antichrist or something like that. And whatever factual data you share to debate and debunk wrong or fake stuff according to them is propaganda and the one who shares it a Sony shill or something like that.
 
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Neversummer

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Lego Horizon Adventures/Concord.....what are the other two flops?
Horizon remake, horizon fw pc port & until dawn.

Future flops? Fairgames, Days Gone remake & until dawn 2

Talk about wasting hundreds of million & wasting years mainly due to PS focus on PC/multiplat instead of double downing singleplayer output on PS4 & PS5 taking 100% of the cuts
 
21 Jun 2022
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Horizon remake, horizon fw pc port & until dawn.

Future flops? Fairgames, Days Gone remake & until dawn 2

Talk about wasting hundreds of million & wasting years mainly due to PS focus on PC/multiplat instead of double downing singleplayer output on PS4 & PS5 taking 100% of the cuts

Rise of the Ronin is maybe flop level? Although I don't know if this is just first party talk. If it's beyond first party I know even ff7r didn't sell to expectations. Personally I think Days Gone is going to do well, first game has a cult following now, lots of people realize the critics were full of crap.
 

Vertigo

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Rise of the Ronin is maybe flop level? Although I don't know if this is just first party talk. If it's beyond first party I know even ff7r didn't sell to expectations. Personally I think Days Gone is going to do well, first game has a cult following now, lots of people realize the critics were full of crap.

It’s not. Koei Tecmo had good things to say about its longer term sales of I recall.

I don’t think Sony kept the rights to it tho…



After playing Ronin…? Meh. I wish I spent that money elsewhere.
 

peter42O

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Horizon remake, horizon fw pc port & until dawn.

Future flops? Fairgames, Days Gone remake & until dawn 2

Talk about wasting hundreds of million & wasting years mainly due to PS focus on PC/multiplat instead of double downing singleplayer output on PS4 & PS5 taking 100% of the cuts

Are you really counting remasters as flops? They had their time already. They're cash grabs for those who never played them back then. They're not for someone like me for example who's already played and completed them years ago. Days Gone remake would make even less sense but again, cash grab.

Until Dawn 2 might bomb if it happens but at least it's a new game and the franchise was never big to begin with. Fairgames remains to be seen. It's a heist game and if the gameplay loop is good, I believe that it will actually do pretty well and way better than Concord because there aren't any heist games. It's only Payday and 3 flopped with people going back to 2 and the only othet game would be GTA Online but that's in it's own class.

As great as getting 100% cut on PlayStation is, they're not going to get everyone that way. They're just not. So they go where people are and PC for example, getting a 70% cut is obviously far better than getting nothing by not being there.

Too many people somehow want to believe that PlayStation is going to grow with ONLY the console and it's simply not especially as the years progress and people get older and move on while younger people mostly play on PC or mobile/handheld devices. There's a reason why the biggest games are everywhere.
 

Neversummer

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Are you really counting remasters as flops? They had their time already. They're cash grabs for those who never played them back then. They're not for someone like me for example who's already played and completed them years ago. Days Gone remake would make even less sense but again, cash grab.
Yes. Because that money & time spent on a remaster/remake flop could’ve been used for a remaster/remake that would’ve benefited PS gamers that bought PS console.
As great as getting 100% cut on PlayStation is, they're not going to get everyone that way. They're just not. So they go where people are and PC for example, getting a 70% cut is obviously far better than getting nothing by not being there.
Is getting 70% cuts from your direct competitors storefront & hardware worth PS5 lacking behind PS4 & PS consoles & ecosystem being diminished? How did Xbox getting 70% cuts on Steam worked out for there windows storefront on PC & Xbox hardware/storefront 🤭 both are dead now Xbox no longer gets 100% cuts in the future & now had to get 70% cuts of a direct competitor 💀

Idk I would rather not get less then 5% of sales on PC from games that sell 20x & 99% on PS console if it meant I wouldn’t have to drink a cup of poison that long term will result in my death.
Too many people somehow want to believe that PlayStation is going to grow with ONLY the console and it's simply not especially as the years progress and people get older and move on while younger people mostly play on PC or mobile/handheld devices. There's a reason why the biggest games are everywhere.
That’s the thing PS can grow & it doesn’t have to be only w console who said PS growth has to be w consoles? PS is a publisher that creates games. You know how you reach more gamers & increase profits? And it’s not a secret 🤭 you make games in new genres that PS doesn’t cover that cater to a new demographic. You make more games then you did previously gens & monetize them something PS doesn’t do 🤭 since PS4 gen PS been releasing 1-2 games per year PS still has the same cadence in the PS5 gen. You know how you grow from PS4 in the PS5 gen instead of releasing 1-2 games per year you make 3-4 games then on PS6 gen you make 5-6 games per year targeting different genres & monetizing both singleplayer & multiplayer games.

I mean look at Nintendo Switch 2 will sell the same as Switch 1 are we expecting Nintendo to release games on PC or PS? Lmao NO ofc not Nintendo knows its growth is in making games which there double downing so don’t be surprised if Nintendo releases 5+ games per year & continue to grow that cadence to 6-7 games per year & explore M rated games to grow & target specific audience onto Nintendo. See Nintendo is expanding but its expansion doesn’t mean Nintendo games have to be on PC Nintendo is expanding to cross media & parks both ventures that expands Nintendo ip to a whole new & wide audience who likely don’t even play Nintendo games. Ip like Mario are growing from the Mario movie & Mario park & nitnendo will expand w new ip in those ventures. Not sure why people think expansion of ip or brand has to be by diminishing & damaging your own brand, storefront & hardware.

It’s pretty funny seeing the results of Xbox that past 10 years people say these kinda things. You know how PS expands & grow there brand? They make movies & anime using there PS gaming ip, they make a Horizon park, GOW park, Patopon park etc just like Nintendo did w Mario & there other expansions that did not diminish or damage the Nintendo everything Nintendo does funnels back to Nintendo hardware, storefront & subscription
 

peter42O

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Yes. Because that money & time spent on a remaster/remake flop could’ve been used for a remaster/remake that would’ve benefited PS gamers that bought PS console.

Perhaps but they were probably cheap and didn't cost much money/time which is why they choose what to remaster and what not to.

Is getting 70% cuts from your direct competitors storefront & hardware worth PS5 lacking behind PS4 & PS consoles & ecosystem being diminished? How did Xbox getting 70% cuts on Steam worked out for there windows storefront on PC & Xbox hardware/storefront 🤭 both are dead now Xbox no longer gets 100% cuts in the future & now had to get 70% cuts of a direct competitor 💀

Idk I would rather not get less then 5% of sales on PC from games that sell 20x & 99% on PS console if it meant I wouldn’t have to drink a cup of poison that long term will result in my death.

Neither Xbox or the PC store front is dead. How people here actually believe that based only on the "console" is beyond me. It's NOT about only the console anymore and as Sony keeps growing outward, eventually, even the most hardcore PlayStation fans will come to that realization. Microsoft's PC store front has grown due to PC Game Pass and Xbox is still going to make a shit ton of revenue and profit. More so, going to Steam and other platforms will gain them that extra 70% cut that they wouldn't be getting at all.

The reason why Microsoft is pretty much everywhere and actually started this in 2016 is the same reason why Sony is doing the same exact thing, just slower and that's due to the fact that they're NOT going to get everyone to buy an Xbox/PlayStation console. It doesn't matter what the price is or what they offer, there's people that just don't want to buy and own one. Instead of trying to convince these people to do so, both companies decided to go to where other people are at and gladly accept a 70% cut because that 70% cut is far better than 0%.

PlayStation (and Xbox) aren't going to die by growing outward. If anything, it's what will allow them to survive, thrive and succeed because they're no longer restricting or limiting themselves due to backlash from those who couldn't even run a lemonade stand let alone run a hundred billion or three trillion dollar company. Both know that consoles have a ceiling. They always have and they always will.

That’s the thing PS can grow & it doesn’t have to be only w console who said PS growth has to be w consoles? PS is a publisher that creates games. You know how you reach more gamers & increase profits? And it’s not a secret 🤭 you make games in new genres that PS doesn’t cover that cater to a new demographic. You make more games then you did previously gens & monetize them something PS doesn’t do 🤭 since PS4 gen PS been releasing 1-2 games per year PS still has the same cadence in the PS5 gen. You know how you grow from PS4 in the PS5 gen instead of releasing 1-2 games per year you make 3-4 games then on PS6 gen you make 5-6 games per year targeting different genres & monetizing both singleplayer & multiplayer games.

The only problem with your theory is that games are more expensive and take much longer to make than they did last generation with PS4 and will take even longer and cost more money with PS6 than they do right now with PS5. Sony also doesn't have the studios that can pull off making games on say a three year cycle. It's not going to happen especially when they're a tech company and their fans are obsessed with graphics and the visuals which takes longer to polish and get exactly the way they want it to be. There's a reason why they don't show you their games early anymore. It's because they want to make sure they're ready to be shown in the way that their fans want them to be shown and that takes money and time.

Monetizing single player games outside of micro-transactions doesn't work because DLC/expansions always have a small attach rate and isn't worth the cost, time and resources to do so. Multi-player wise, they're doing a few of them but they don't have the experience, expertise or knowledge to accomplish them which is why they acquired Bungie and even they aren't what they once were.

I mean look at Nintendo Switch 2 will sell the same as Switch 1 are we expecting Nintendo to release games on PC or PS? Lmao NO ofc not Nintendo knows its growth is in making games which there double downing so don’t be surprised if Nintendo releases 5+ games per year & continue to grow that cadence to 6-7 games per year & explore M rated games to grow & target specific audience onto Nintendo. See Nintendo is expanding but its expansion doesn’t mean Nintendo games have to be on PC Nintendo is expanding to cross media & parks both ventures that expands Nintendo ip to a whole new & wide audience who likely don’t even play Nintendo games. Ip like Mario are growing from the Mario movie & Mario park & nitnendo will expand w new ip in those ventures. Not sure why people think expansion of ip or brand has to be by diminishing & damaging your own brand, storefront & hardware.

You can't compare Nintendo to Microsoft/Sony because their tech is always a generation or two behind, their games don't cost $300M a pop before marketing/advertising, they don't go after realistic visuals which costs a shit ton of money, they rarely if ever put their games or hardware on sale and despite all of that, Nintendo profits are the highest despite their revenue being the lowest of the three. That's why they don't need to go to PC or anywhere else because they don't spend the money.

Sony makes the most revenue but their profit margins are the lowest and this is why I always find it hilarious when people say Xbox is dead or dying yet somehow want to believe that PlayStation alive and well. Microsoft's revenue is the second highest after Sony yet their profit margin is higher than Sony but below Nintendo. Think about it for a minute. Microsoft has double the studios, triple the teams, way more employees and yet they still make more money than Sony does as a company. The reason why is simple - it's because Microsoft knew a long time ago that keeping their games on a box that let's be honest, even if they were on fire, wouldn't go past 100m units sold which means that's your entire user install base which while people love to brag about Sony's games selling, the reality s that the attach rate sucks. Sony will sell 120m PS5 units and their best selling game which is a licensed IP which costs them a lot of money upfront will sell 30m copies which on the surface looks great but when you dig into it, you realize that 75% of the install base don't give two shits about the game and when Sony has to sell 8M copies at full price just to break even due to the licensing fees, im sorry but that's NOT good business. This is why Sony is growing outward.

It’s pretty funny seeing the results of Xbox that past 10 years people say these kinda things. You know how PS expands & grow there brand? They make movies & anime using there PS gaming ip, they make a Horizon park, GOW park, Patopon park etc just like Nintendo did w Mario & there other expansions that did not diminish or damage the Nintendo everything Nintendo does funnels back to Nintendo hardware, storefront & subscription

The results for Xbox now is far better than what it was 5 years ago and especially 10 years ago. It's amazing how so many people want to actually believe that locking everything down to a box that at best would sell 120m units and have shitty attach rates for 75% of their released games and in turn, make far less revenue and profits is somehow better than growing outward and get those people who are never ever going to buy your box into your platform and eco-system and yes, 70% IS better than 0%.

Sony can make movies and do all that other stuff but it's also going to cost them a lot more money to run than it does for Nintendo. Doing all this stuff adds extra costs. Nintendo does it because as I said earlier, they spend the least money, make the least revenue but their profits are the highest. Their margins are excellent. This doesn't apply to Sony (or Microsoft) because they spend a lot more freaking money than Nintendo does.

You grow the brand by going outward. Staying inward only minimizes your potential growth and if anything, will stagnate your progression in growing. Consoles don't grow at all. PS5 will sell 120m units at best. That's not growth from PS4. That's just retaining what they already had. Microsoft hasn't grown with hardware because they fucked up in 2013 and will never bounce back from it which is why they pivoted to growing outward which actually started with acquiring Mojang (Minecraft) and then expanded throughout the years to what it is now.

It's amazing, majority here believe that Xbox is dead or dying because of their direction to be everywhere yet they somehow believe that they would do better if they ONLY concentrated on the box/console which I find hilarious because that would be what actually kills off the brand and the platform. Being everywhere is what's going to allow them to stay alive and well because now, they don't have to be concerned about how many consoles they sell which they haven't been in years anyway but even more so now. They'll sell their 40m or so consoles to those like me who want it while also growing their IP's and franchises by being on other platforms in which those users weren't going to buy an Xbox anyway and taking a 70% cut from those people is far better than getting 0% due to not being everywhere.
 

quest4441

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If you want kiddie games lego horizon aint it, you need level gimmicks ala Mario/Astrobot to attract kids and the mascot needs to be cute. Lego block Aloy aint cute lol. This didnt even chart in japan on the switch I dont know what they are smoking at SIE HQ
 
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DarkLordOtaku

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PCMR and Nintendo fanboys are the biggest culprits for poor sales because they don't like Sony games
I can't speak for Nintendo fans, but some PC gamers do like Sony games. I've purchased most of the games available on PC.

I haven't purchased Lego Horizons because... well, it's a full priced Lego game, with pretty middling critic reviews. Perhaps I'll pick it up someday in a Lego bundle or something on sale.

It doesn't broad stroke mean I dislike all of Sony's games.
 

Neversummer

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@Neversummer

LMAO, the Days Gone remaster. Thanks for reminding me, needed a good laugh.
Yes days gone which wouldn’t be surprising since there a rumored movie. But also now remembering there is a rumor of a uncharted ND remake & GOW trilogy remake which would be hype & great additions for the PS5 as a exclusive to drive PS4, Xbox, Nintendo & PC gamers into PS5 & the PS ecosystem but I wouldn’t put it past Herman making those 4 games day n date on PC which will kill all hype & desire. Idk maybe Herman releases the GOW trilogy on Switch 2 I mean it won’t be stressful of a game & the Switch 2 is rumored to be around the power of PS4 which companies will bend over to optimize & port there games on.
 

Neversummer

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If you want kiddie games lego horizon aint it, you need level gimmicks ala Mario/Astrobot to attract kids and the mascot needs to be cute. Lego block Aloy aint cute lol. This didnt even chart in japan on the switch I dont know what they are smoking at SIE HQ
Tbh Lego Horizon isn’t bad but at $60 that game isn’t as value as other Lego games that use a bunch of characters from the license franchise something Lego Horizon massively lacks. If Lego Horzion was $40-$50 & didn’t see sales under $30 months & months later to hold value & was a actual PS5 exclusive he’ll even PS4 & PS5 there would be more hype & desire but because it’s multiplat from all platforms people aren’t hype nor wants it. This game will likely see sells when it’s $20 which overall is a massive flop by Herman & fiasco level disaster 3-4 flops in 1 year & flopping his beloved Horizon franchise both using the LEGO franchise & Horizon franchises that sold million if not 10s of millions of sales something Lego Horizon won’t even break a fraction of. Tbh your lucky if Lego Horizon sells 100k-200k the game has less reviews on PS then Concord & on PC we see the public ccu & it ain’t performing any better actually could be argue worse & finally Nintendo I’m not sure how it’s rated on Nintendo but I suspect similar numbers to PS if not worse (concord rumored to sold 20K I can see Lego Horizon selling 30k-50 first week & maybe 100k-200k lifetime w sells) either way it’s a massive flop. 3 bombs in a row until dawn, lego horizon, concord with the only massive success being Astro bot a PS5 exclusive that nearly 50% of consumers that bought the game where new/younger people, wow shocker who would’ve thought the best way to expand PS to a new audience was to support games rated e/t that are for a universal crowd looking for fun/party type games. Not every game has to be rated M 3rd person action adventure.
 

Neversummer

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Perhaps but they were probably cheap and didn't cost much money/time which is why they choose what to remaster and what not to.



Neither Xbox or the PC store front is dead. How people here actually believe that based only on the "console" is beyond me. It's NOT about only the console anymore and as Sony keeps growing outward, eventually, even the most hardcore PlayStation fans will come to that realization. Microsoft's PC store front has grown due to PC Game Pass and Xbox is still going to make a shit ton of revenue and profit. More so, going to Steam and other platforms will gain them that extra 70% cut that they wouldn't be getting at all.

The reason why Microsoft is pretty much everywhere and actually started this in 2016 is the same reason why Sony is doing the same exact thing, just slower and that's due to the fact that they're NOT going to get everyone to buy an Xbox/PlayStation console. It doesn't matter what the price is or what they offer, there's people that just don't want to buy and own one. Instead of trying to convince these people to do so, both companies decided to go to where other people are at and gladly accept a 70% cut because that 70% cut is far better than 0%.

PlayStation (and Xbox) aren't going to die by growing outward. If anything, it's what will allow them to survive, thrive and succeed because they're no longer restricting or limiting themselves due to backlash from those who couldn't even run a lemonade stand let alone run a hundred billion or three trillion dollar company. Both know that consoles have a ceiling. They always have and they always will.



The only problem with your theory is that games are more expensive and take much longer to make than they did last generation with PS4 and will take even longer and cost more money with PS6 than they do right now with PS5. Sony also doesn't have the studios that can pull off making games on say a three year cycle. It's not going to happen especially when they're a tech company and their fans are obsessed with graphics and the visuals which takes longer to polish and get exactly the way they want it to be. There's a reason why they don't show you their games early anymore. It's because they want to make sure they're ready to be shown in the way that their fans want them to be shown and that takes money and time.

Monetizing single player games outside of micro-transactions doesn't work because DLC/expansions always have a small attach rate and isn't worth the cost, time and resources to do so. Multi-player wise, they're doing a few of them but they don't have the experience, expertise or knowledge to accomplish them which is why they acquired Bungie and even they aren't what they once were.



You can't compare Nintendo to Microsoft/Sony because their tech is always a generation or two behind, their games don't cost $300M a pop before marketing/advertising, they don't go after realistic visuals which costs a shit ton of money, they rarely if ever put their games or hardware on sale and despite all of that, Nintendo profits are the highest despite their revenue being the lowest of the three. That's why they don't need to go to PC or anywhere else because they don't spend the money.

Sony makes the most revenue but their profit margins are the lowest and this is why I always find it hilarious when people say Xbox is dead or dying yet somehow want to believe that PlayStation alive and well. Microsoft's revenue is the second highest after Sony yet their profit margin is higher than Sony but below Nintendo. Think about it for a minute. Microsoft has double the studios, triple the teams, way more employees and yet they still make more money than Sony does as a company. The reason why is simple - it's because Microsoft knew a long time ago that keeping their games on a box that let's be honest, even if they were on fire, wouldn't go past 100m units sold which means that's your entire user install base which while people love to brag about Sony's games selling, the reality s that the attach rate sucks. Sony will sell 120m PS5 units and their best selling game which is a licensed IP which costs them a lot of money upfront will sell 30m copies which on the surface looks great but when you dig into it, you realize that 75% of the install base don't give two shits about the game and when Sony has to sell 8M copies at full price just to break even due to the licensing fees, im sorry but that's NOT good business. This is why Sony is growing outward.



The results for Xbox now is far better than what it was 5 years ago and especially 10 years ago. It's amazing how so many people want to actually believe that locking everything down to a box that at best would sell 120m units and have shitty attach rates for 75% of their released games and in turn, make far less revenue and profits is somehow better than growing outward and get those people who are never ever going to buy your box into your platform and eco-system and yes, 70% IS better than 0%.

Sony can make movies and do all that other stuff but it's also going to cost them a lot more money to run than it does for Nintendo. Doing all this stuff adds extra costs. Nintendo does it because as I said earlier, they spend the least money, make the least revenue but their profits are the highest. Their margins are excellent. This doesn't apply to Sony (or Microsoft) because they spend a lot more freaking money than Nintendo does.

You grow the brand by going outward. Staying inward only minimizes your potential growth and if anything, will stagnate your progression in growing. Consoles don't grow at all. PS5 will sell 120m units at best. That's not growth from PS4. That's just retaining what they already had. Microsoft hasn't grown with hardware because they fucked up in 2013 and will never bounce back from it which is why they pivoted to growing outward which actually started with acquiring Mojang (Minecraft) and then expanded throughout the years to what it is now.

It's amazing, majority here believe that Xbox is dead or dying because of their direction to be everywhere yet they somehow believe that they would do better if they ONLY concentrated on the box/console which I find hilarious because that would be what actually kills off the brand and the platform. Being everywhere is what's going to allow them to stay alive and well because now, they don't have to be concerned about how many consoles they sell which they haven't been in years anyway but even more so now. They'll sell their 40m or so consoles to those like me who want it while also growing their IP's and franchises by being on other platforms in which those users weren't going to buy an Xbox anyway and taking a 70% cut from those people is far better than getting 0% due to not being everywhere.
Whole lotta shit.

Also you try deflect my points which aren’t theory as they follow the market leader in console method to expand, grow & have the biggest profits compared to any other gaming publisher (from my knowledge, maybe there’s a mobile publisher that exceeds 6 billion profit)

Nintendo continues to prove many wrong & show how & what Xbox & PS will lead them to being at the mercy of any 3rd party. ABK found out, Embracer is found out & Ubisoft found out. Netflix counties to show record profit & growth while having defacto exclusive same for Apple 💀 companies imploding due to self inflections will always be funny to watch
 

Neversummer

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Nah, game just sucks for that price point.

How i remember, all other Lego games cost around 30$ here, so double for this game is No Go.
Fr. Lego Horizon pricing is nothing more then Herman greed & multi failures in row trying to offset the loss w him thinking Lego Horizon would be big but instead it has middling reviews (almost rated 3 star on PS storefront), priced at $60 way to expensive for a Lego game w little to no character or legacy/content to carry resulting in a flop. Lego Horizon came & went w no one on any of the platforms that it release carrying for the game. PS fans have no hype or desire for a multiplat overpriced lego game, PC users don’t care because it’s day n date & it’s nothing special neither it being a PS game day n date multiplat game a lego/horizon game pushed any desire towards it.

It’s pretty clear Herman is trying recoup by doing more multiplat but instead it’s just furthering the diminishment & the damages are getting larger & wider & day n date/multiplat isn’t helping. It’s like a snake eating itself tail or doing drugs to get that little high but overtime you end up overdosing when you should’ve stayed to what worked & found other methods to expand, grow & bring a new audience to the PS brand without diminishing itself. PS can grow without diminishing itself w multiplat/day n date releases Nintendo has continued to show & prove there old school mindset leads to success