Lego Horizon Adventures is on Switch because Playstation Studio’s Guerrilla Games wanted the game to reach more people

Dick Jones

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TBF, Astro's Playroom, Rift Apart, and the new Astro Bot already prove there is demand for kids games on PlayStation. Same with stuff like the Sonic games, Hogwarts Legacy etc.

Yes games like Rift Apart & Hogwarts weren't just aimed at kids (LEGO Horizon isn't either); it's better to call these 'all ages' games and reserve kids games to stuff like Barbie and Bluey game spinoffs. But point being, 'all ages' stuff like Rift Apart and Hogwarts sold very well on PS5. Hogwarts especially well.

We don't need LEGO Horizon to test if there's a market for all-ages games on PS5.
Your examples are
- a game that is packed into the PS5 for free. We don't know how this converts to people paying for a full game.
- Rift Apart relative to other Sony First Party did not move anything close to the main First Party IP this gen.
- Astro Bot is not out yet so we don't know the future.

It feels like a dipping of the toes into Nintendo's wheelhouse. With Xbox making themselves a non factor, Sony will attack Nintendo's turf next gen.

I get your point with all ages. I was trying to think of a handy all encompassing phrase and will borrow all ages going forward. Hogwarts is different as Sony can't use Harry Potter IP to make a game. A non Harry Potter IP game like Hogwarts isn't guaranteed to sell those numbers. Harry Potter is a mega IP.
 

reziel

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In Sony? Uh, yes? That's what happens when you have weak leadership that is deathly afraid to actually, you know, lead. You've got Hulst who only cares about being cuddly with devs and taking vacations, and Totoki who only cares about making short-term profit. Sony gives Valve and Nintendo hundreds of millions in revenue and when it asks something it goes like this:

Sony: "Hey Valve, you know we ported all our big singleplayer games to Steam and our GaaS are day one. How about you guys port Counter-strike 2 on PS5 and Half-Life Alyx on PSVR2?"

Valve: "lolno"

Sony: "Hey Nintendo, we are releasing a first-party game day one on your platform. How about you maybe port some of your smaller games years later?"

Nintendo: "lolno"

I don't understand how anyone can turn a blind eye to this. Sony is strengthening competitive platforms and the owners of those platforms do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to reciprocate. It is ridiculous.
Funny too how Microsoft still till this day say they're anticompetitive. Yet look at all they do. Out of all the 4 platforms they're definitely trying to stay competitive the other 3 don't care unless the odds aren't in there favor.
 

Yurinka

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I think it's to see if there is a demand for child games for Sony. If Sony can kidify some IP then they can go after the Nintendo market. This is a low risk game to test the waters where the IP is borrowed an put on a Lego game without wasting first parry studio resources.
Yep, I think this is their main idea behind the new Astro Bot game and Lego Horizon. The Nintendo games, many Lego games and in a lower scale Sonic make a lot of money, so I assume that Sony is testing the waters to see if they can heavily expand into this kids friendly area.

They have been and will continue expanding to PC, multiplayer, shooters, GaaS, movies/tv shows, areas where they didn't excel/dominate with 1st party entries. Now that Xbox has been murdered I assume they are considering to expand to mascot platformers as another growth vector, this case to essentially having in mind to steal Nintendo's breakfast in the future, while also growing strengthening their library with a new type of games and IPs that they could more easily adapt to potential future mobile games.

If somewhere in the future Sony releases a handheld -let's say using their potential future PSN PC store-, these type of kid friendly games would also help them compete against Nintendo in the handheld side because from day one they'd have a library of mascot actions platformers, which some of these kids would already be a fan of.

In the Sony portable the kids would also be able to play not only the few ported ones to Switch, but also the other Sony platformers, plus the "big", mainline tentpole versions of these series.

Makes me wonder if Sony studios have Switch 2 dev kits. They would need them for MLB The Show 25 right?
Yes, they must have it like any other big 3rd party Switch dev.

Ultimately, PlayStation's software strategy is really smart in the short-term and really fucking dumb in the long-term. There must be some major internal reasons why their software people are making moves that don't support their own hardware business. Maybe they expect the PS6 to be an $800 machine or something?
Why do you consider it dumb in the long term?

With their current strategy their traditional SP narrative games are making more money than ever, and in addition to them they are successfully expanding to the top grossing genres and game they didn't dominate (FPS/shooters, multiplayer, GaaS, now also kid friendly mascot action platformers), making their IPs more popular via movies and tv shows and also expanding to bigger, not directly competitive markets that have a small overlap (PC, soon mobile and apparently maybe only for kid games Switch).

What would be dumb would be to commit suicide by getting stuck in SP non-GaaS games only released only in their console, when the costs are skyrocketing every generation but game prices and sales not. And when the game revenue from game sales in the whole gaming market, in consoles and in PS keeps decreasing every year because it's getting replaced by (mostly for GaaS) addons revenue. And where there are giant markets out there like PC, mobile or the portables with relatively little overlap and a different demographics/tastes.

And looking at the future MS and Epic are extending their stores to mobile in addition to already being in PC (including the growing market of the consolized ones as portable or home consoles), and both Google Play and Apple App store are expanding to computers.

Sony is growing and improving their performance in all traditional and new fronts to highly increase their userbase, revenue, profit and brand awareness. Which is the best long term strategy.

Your examples are
- a game that is packed into the PS5 for free. We don't know how this converts to people paying for a full game.
- Rift Apart relative to other Sony First Party did not move anything close to the main First Party IP this gen.
- Astro Bot is not out yet so we don't know the future.
Regarding this, we should add that Rift Apart did a good job and seems it outperformed all previous entries, but is still way behind on its game type of top sellers like the Nintendo games. It's behind even of many Lego adaptations of big IPs or Sonic.

Astro also had the VR game that did work for that small niche and got praise but pretty limited sales.

Both Ratchet and Astro are good assets, but I think the support of Lego combined with top blockbuster Sony IPs has potential to sell way better. And not only in kid friendly action platformers / action adventures and toys of single Sony IPs.

But potentially also to do stuff as could be a "Lego PlayStation Racing" arcade racer (not just kart), "Lego PlayStation Brawl" (Smash Bros inspired but modified to differentiate it enough, maybe keeping the Lego Horizon camera and not having the flying platforms structure plus adding many funny items and environment interactions to give it a more party, less serious game feel) etc.

Meaning, to repeat the Astro Bot and Smash Bros gimmick of playing the nostalgia card bringing a lot of classic IPs together, in this case all from Sony (or 3rd party IPs very close to PS). But with the Lego skin in different genres, which also would help them to have Lego toys of PS characters or games not big enough to get their own Lego game adaptation.
 
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ethomaz

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There are better Sony franchises to turn into LEGO.

Of course Herman thinks the universe revolves around Horizon.
Yea there are a lot of franchises.

But imo Horizon is the best fit... imagine you have big robotic mechas with Lego blocks... it is the perfect fit.
I understand people will say "ohhhh but God of War monsters will be cool" and I agree but it will feel a bit weird... now Horizon world and monsters are already futuristic enough to fit Lego blocks perfectly.

That is what I was trying to say.

BTW Lego Forbidden West toys already exists... it was launched few years ago.
Lego God of War exists but it is not in the same scale because it is most the characters and small builds... Horizon allow you to expand it to big things.

81IYVkkYj3L._AC_SL1500_.jpg
 
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Say1nMan

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Yea there are a lot of franchises.

But imo Horizon is the best fit... imagine you have big robotic mechas with Lego blocks... it is the perfect fit.
I understand people will say "ohhhh but God of War monsters will be cool" and I agree but it will feel a bit weird... now Horizon world and monsters are already futuristic enough to fit Lego blocks perfectly.

That is what I was trying to say.

BTW Lego Forbidden West toys already exists... it was launched few years ago.
Lego God of War exists but it is not in the same scale because it is most the characters and small builds... Horizon allow you to expand it to big things.

81IYVkkYj3L._AC_SL1500_.jpg
Yep, hence why we are getting a Lego Horizon game. Would love to still get me one of those Tallneck Lego.
 
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Firefly

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If they wanted to reach more players why skip xbox? Unless these devs also fucking hate xbox which would be funny.
 

ethomaz

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If they wanted to reach more players why skip xbox? Unless these devs also fucking hate xbox which would be funny.
Sony takes Xbox as a competitive platform (aka platform that can take players from PlayStation)... not as a platform to expand business.

While people have debated if PC can take players from PlayStation... imo the way Sony is doing it (releasing old games on PC) won't change anything... PlayStation players will continue playing on PlayStation.

And Switch is indeed a complementary platform... something that lacks on PlayStation... a portable... so it won't steal PS players.
 
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Your examples are
- a game that is packed into the PS5 for free. We don't know how this converts to people paying for a full game.
- Rift Apart relative to other Sony First Party did not move anything close to the main First Party IP this gen.
- Astro Bot is not out yet so we don't know the future.

Rift Apart did 4 million on a system that was starved for install base growth most of the time the game was available before the PC port, due to chip shortages. It also didn't have a PS4 version. That ~ 4 million number prior to going to Steam is very impressive in context, and it didn't need to do TLOU or Spiderman numbers to be considered successful.

Also, no reason to stick to just 1P games on this. Again, Sonic games do pretty well on PS (even if they do better on Nintendo). Hogwarts did phenomenally on PS5; PS4 & PS5 were the top platforms for that game's sales.

It feels like a dipping of the toes into Nintendo's wheelhouse. With Xbox making themselves a non factor, Sony will attack Nintendo's turf next gen.

How does that work exactly, when Sony tried this same "dipping toes" with Steam that has since turned into them porting all their games to Steam in due time, with more Day 1 Steam releases especially for GAAS titles? Why would Sony suddenly view Nintendo as a competitor if they don't view PC, a platform with MUCH more similarity to PlayStation in terms of software library among 3P alone (and now 1P), as a competitor?

If anything I'd say LEGO Horizon on Switch is so they can grease Nintendo fans up for ports of HZD & HFW on Switch 2. That seems like an obvious trajectory from here with that IP, considering Horizon 3 is still a few years away at earliest.

I get your point with all ages. I was trying to think of a handy all encompassing phrase and will borrow all ages going forward. Hogwarts is different as Sony can't use Harry Potter IP to make a game. A non Harry Potter IP game like Hogwarts isn't guaranteed to sell those numbers. Harry Potter is a mega IP.

Yeah, 'all-ages' is something I remember from when the ESRB used to have the KA (Kids to Adults) rating, and then the E (Everyone) rating. I think others started using 'all ages' around that time. It's a good way to differentiate from the purely kids-centric stuff like edutainment titles, which simply would not be appealing to anyone over the age of 6 or 7.

As for Harry Potter...I actually think SIE could score a license agreement for a 1P to make a Harry Potter game, if they really wanted to. It would probably be multiplatform though the same way LEGO Horizon is, but in HP's case I can see that being more due to WB Games than SIE.
 
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ethomaz

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I want to make a small bold claim here... taking the discussion of why they choose Horizon to a Lego game :D

I believe Lego Horizon will sell more on PS5 alone than Astro Bot.
 

Muddasar

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Sony takes Xbox as a competitive platform (aka platform that can take players from PlayStation)... not as a platform to expand business.

While people have debated if PC can take players from PlayStation... imo the way Sony is doing it (releasing old games on PC) won't change anything... PlayStation players will continue playing on PlayStation.

And Switch is indeed a complementary platform... something that lacks on PlayStation... a portable... so it won't steal PS players.

Switch makes more sense than PC.
 
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ethomaz

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Switch makes more sense than PC.
For Lego it does... it probably makes more sense than PlayStation itself :D
I love PlayStation but I know the Switch market is different and something PlayStation today doesn't support very well (well in the past I have a hard time to find good family games for my kids on PS... it is limited and most are for PS4... for PS5 exactly you have today Astro and Sackboy Big Adventure).

I hope with new Astro and Lego Horizon PS5 start to be a better market for family/kids.
But only Astro and Lego won't save the day... needs way more releases aimed to that market... constant releases.

That is why Switch is fits perfectly as a complementary platform to PS5.
Nintendo aim a market that others don't.
 
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Englishy

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Why do you consider it dumb in the long term?

With their current strategy their traditional SP narrative games are making more money than ever, and in addition to them they are successfully expanding to the top grossing genres and game they didn't dominate (FPS/shooters, multiplayer, GaaS, now also kid friendly mascot action platformers), making their IPs more popular via movies and tv shows and also expanding to bigger, not directly competitive markets that have a small overlap (PC, soon mobile and apparently maybe only for kid games Switch).

What would be dumb would be to commit suicide by getting stuck in SP non-GaaS games only released only in their console, when the costs are skyrocketing every generation but game prices and sales not. And when the game revenue from game sales in the whole gaming market, in consoles and in PS keeps decreasing every year because it's getting replaced by (mostly for GaaS) addons revenue. And where there are giant markets out there like PC, mobile or the portables with relatively little overlap and a different demographics/tastes.

It's really dumb because they still have a console to sell. If they expect their console business to collapse then it makes complete sense to start finding new homes for their IP to live. But if they don't see a disaster in their hardware sales/adoption rates, then it makes terrible sense (long-term) to give people less reasons to buy their console. If I don't need a PlayStation to play PlayStation games, why would I get a PlayStation?

If enough people ask themselves that question, then PlayStation will find itself in the same position Xbox is in. It just doesn't make sense to redirect potential PlayStation customers to PC and Nintendo platforms.
 
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Muddasar

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For Lego it does... it probably makes more sense than PlayStation itself :D
I love PlayStation but I know the Switch market is different and something PlayStation today doesn't support very well (well in the past I have a hard time to find good family games for my kids on PS... it is limited and most are for PS4... for PS5 exactly you have today Astro and Sackboy Big Adventure).

I hope with new Astro and Lego Horizon PS5 start to be a better market for family/kids.
But only Astro and Lego won't save the day... needs way more releases aimed to that market... constant releases.

That is why Switch is fits perfectly as a complementary platform to PS5.
Nintendo aim a market that others don't.

Agree.

I meant as a complimentary to PlayStation because Sony has no handheld and isn’t making mobile games.

Unlike PC which is a direct competitor to Playstation.

I expect this LEGO deal is long term and we will
see more Sony LEGO games on Switch in the future.

People thinking this is a back door to bring mainline Horizon games to Switch 2 are being silly.
 
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ethomaz

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It's really dumb because they still have a console to sell. If they expect their console business to collapse then it makes complete sense to start finding new homes for their IP to live. But if they don't see a disaster in their hardware sales/adoption rates, then it makes terrible sense (long-term) to give people less reasons to buy their console. If I don't need a PlayStation to play PlayStation games, why would I get a PlayStation?

If enough people ask themselves that question, then PlayStation will find itself in the same position Xbox is in. It just doesn't make sense to redirect potential PlayStation customers to PC and Nintendo platforms.
I think you overshot why consoles players play consoles.
Maybe there are some fews that indeed will move from PS to PC but these are niche imo.
Because most like to play games on consoles... at home, in their own couch without need to setup anything or deal with the PC UI... they want just that.

To these no matter what Sony do on PC they will never move to it.
They will rater end to play games if a PlayStation hardware doesn't exists than start to playing games on PC... or will move to Mobile.

Yes... I see a lot more people moving from consoles to mobile.
Consoles to PC is very hard.

Plus PlayStation still have exclusives that makes the platform worth of it... and the games that goes to PC takes so many years that is not every worth of wait (at least to myself is not because either I play the games at launch or don't play at all).
 
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ethomaz

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People thinking this is a back door to bring mainline Horizon games to Switch 2 are being silly.
I don't believe one second Sony will bring the main Horizon games to Switch 2.
It is too much effort to a port that will probably fail to sell due the Nintendo's demography.

If porting a Horizon game to PC is considered 1 point hard... then to Switch 2 it will be 10 point hard... they don't even use the same CPU architecture.

Unless Sony moves with PS6 to ARM... so in that case PS6 to Switch 2 port will be a lot easier.
 
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Ico

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when this game was just a rumor i used to think it would have the same scale of the lego fortnite, a big open world and a nice gameplay, almost as an evolution, but now that i saw what they developed my only confusion is... why is this not on mobile too? not saying the game looks bad, but its such a big market and the game can even run on the switch
 

Yurinka

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It's really dumb because they still have a console to sell. If they expect their console business to collapse then it makes complete sense to start finding new homes for their IP to live. But if they don't see a disaster in their hardware sales/adoption rates, then it makes terrible sense (long-term) to give people less reasons to buy their console. If I don't need a PlayStation to play PlayStation games, why would I get a PlayStation?

If enough people ask themselves that question, then PlayStation will find itself in the same position Xbox is in. It just doesn't make sense to redirect potential PlayStation customers to PC and Nintendo platforms.
They know their IPs would die because games are becoming too expensive to make to keep them profitable only with non-GaaS limited to their console, even if they keep growing their console userbase at record levels as they are achieving and even eating all Xbox marketshare as they are achieving. Meaning, they would have to stop making the games, starting with the lower selling ones.

They had 3 options:
  1. To continue limited to SP non-GaaS for their console and die
  2. To stop making AAA games, specially those from non-top selling IPs
  3. Expand their portfolio in amount and type of games, amount of revenue channels
Their results have nothing to do (now and in the future) with Xbox because their strategy is very different than the Xbox one:
  • They don't put all their games day one in a game sub
  • They don't put all their games day one on PC
  • Their amount of exclusive games increases every year, doesn't decrease (number of exclusive releases per year is higher than the PC ports of old games released that year)
  • Their exclusives have way more prestige than the MS ones
  • The 3rd party support across all generations they had is way bigger and covers better way more niches
  • They also built a larger fanbase through all these generations
  • They saw that their PC strategy don't decrease their console userbase, but instead increases it
Their console kept growing while releasing games on PC, Xbox and Switch. Like movies & tv shows they helped to grow their console and general business, not the opposite. They made fans there who wanted to play the other games that are only there.

Regarding the overlap, this is in USA (please remember PS is only a portion of the console bubble, not the whole), 56% of the US players play on mobile or PC but not in console and only 8% play only in console (being PS a portion of it):
image.png

78% of the US players play on mobile
48% of the US players play on PC
43% of the US players play on console
why is this not on mobile too?
This type of game sells in console. In mobile what it sells is F2P very designed around its monetization and user retention, and also with different controls, UI, game genres or maybe even artstyles.

If it works well enough, pretty likely they may do later other different Lego Horizon games specifically designed for mobile on top of whatever they already are doing (Horizon MMORPG -top genre in mobile- for mobile+PC by NCSoft).

I don't believe one second Sony will bring the main Horizon games to Switch 2.
It is too much effort to a port that will probably fail to sell due the Nintendo's demography.

If porting a Horizon game to PC is considered 1 point hard... then to Switch 2 it will be 10 point hard... they don't even use the same CPU architecture.

Unless Sony moves with PS6 to ARM... so in that case PS6 to Switch 2 port will be a lot easier.
I agree. The type of games that sell on Switch don't match the mainline Horizon games, a decent port would be pretty likely too difficult/expensive for what it would sell and is better to keep them console exclusive as selling point for those lured with the type of game that works way better in Switch, case of Lego Horizon.

I think Sony won't move to ARM -even in potential future portables- with PS6 to keep full BC with PS4 and PS5.

I think they only want to make some extra bucks and also as something secondary make their IP popular among Switch kids with stuff like Lego kids or maybe some other kid friendly games like Ratchet or Astro to turn them into fans who may buy PS in the future when they grow.
 
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