Microsoft reveals how much money (revenue) Game Pass actually make

Satoru

Limitless
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20 Jun 2022
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Microsoft's games may not be talked about like Sony or Nintendo but they don't need to be. If you have 20m+ players playing a Sea of Thieves for example years after it released, guess what? That game is much more talked about in the long term than any Sony or Nintendo game because it's still active where as the one and done games are well, done and people moved on already.

20M+ playing?


It's a live service game that is not pulling a substantial amount of online users on steam when compared with... Zero Dawn, which is a game from 2017.


It has a lower all time peak than GoW


Unless 19M of those are in other platforms, you shot yourself in the foot. Not many people give a crap about Sea of Thieves (even though its a decent game).

From your own link:

There aren’t currently any games that can only be accessed through Game Pass alone

Your list basically boils down to old sports games EA doesn’t sell digitally anymore, and games that have been updated and replaced with different versions or bundles. I only skimmed the list but they all seem to be available on disc outside of the service… which is what I said.

I applaud the effort in reaching, though. Got a good chuckle out of me.

"your argument makes my argument go bust, so let me find something to nitpick to prove I'm actually right"

I was pretty clear on my quotes. You ignored them. Good on you, reported.

WOW the goal is moving
😂
😂
😂


They keep moving the goalpost. You say "Freemium games are not the same standard of quality" and they say "but uhm actually X people still talk about them"

Fuckin' Ariana Grande is bigger than The Doors nowadays and nobody would argue the latter made a lasting impression in music and she'll be a blip 20 years from now.
 

Hezekiah

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23 Jul 2022
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That is discounts received. Discounts you got on purchases you made.

Cost of sales is:
Opening stock
+ Purchases
- Purchases Returned
+ Carriage Inwards (cost to you to get the good delivered)
Less Closing Stock

Revenue less cost of sales = gross profits

Discount Received is then added to the Gross Profit figure.

Discounts allowed is an expense.

Discounts allowed (by the business) is an expense and found in expenses part of the p&l account
Oh I didn't know you posted on here haha.

It seems like there is some misunderstanding on the forum, leading some to potentially inflate the ARPU by assuming hardly anyone uses the $1 a month deal etc.
 

DonFerrari

Banned
14 Jul 2022
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I said the games are all available outside of the service.

You post a list of old sports games and games that have digital updates rendering the old versions obsolete, all of which your own link says are available in physical form and your own link also says no games are only available in GamePass.

Yet somehow my comment got “busted” 😆🤡

Again, cute.
 

Papacheeks

Old Guard
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21 Jun 2022
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Personally, I don't think that Microsoft is going to make the games Sony makes and why would they? That's not their direction. Never has been. Outside of Halo and Gears, Microsoft has never been a company that focuses on visuals like Sony does or truly goes in the single player only direction where even now, Sony is pivoting because they know they can't just stay with their old formula.

People talk more about Sony's and Nintendo's exclusives because first, they have some this year, second, they have a longer history especially Nintendo but here's the main difference, one the novelty of a God of War Ragnarok wares off, people move on so while it's talked about a lot, once people move on, it will be forgotten. How many people still talk about the PS4 exclusives? Very few. The game I see mentioned and talked about the most is Bloodborne because people want a PS5 patch for it. I haven't seen even Horizon Forbidden West talked about since it launched. It will get a boost when they reveal and announce the expansion for it but after that, it will be dead silent.

Microsoft's games may not be talked about like Sony or Nintendo but they don't need to be. If you have 20m+ players playing a Sea of Thieves for example years after it released, guess what? That game is much more talked about in the long term than any Sony or Nintendo game because it's still active where as the one and done games are well, done and people moved on already.

Even God of War Ragnarok, once everyone completes it and talks about for a few weeks, people will move on to their next game because how many times can someone talk about the same game when it's exactly the same conversation as it was months/years earlier? I play Division 2 and it's 3 1/2 years old. I still talk about the game. I haven't talked about HFW for example since it launched outside of the debates I had with Thicc because after you talk about it, there's nothing left to discuss until the next new game in the series which is usually multiple years away.

Obviously, I disagree with the end. I prefer Spencer. I don't want an old school guy coming in who's out of touch with reality and trying to cling on to a business model that's simply becoming more obsolete by the day. Besides, outside of a few Halo games, none of Microsoft's games ever sold 10m+ copies so why would they have stayed with an old school approach when it never really worked for hem since the beginning to begin with? Answer is you wouldn't. You would change and adapt because the old model wasn't working for them so why stay with something isn't working?

Just because something may work great for Sony or Nintendo doesn't mean it will work out great for Microsoft. Just like Game Pass is a perfect fit for Microsoft and their direction as a company, that may not be the same for Sony or Nintendo. Companies need to focus on what their strengths are in regards to their brand and direction. Old school model wasn't working for Microsoft and Xbox so bringing in someone old school simply wouldn't work at all and if anything, would set them even further back because they would simply be out of touch with reality in how things are progressing.



Compared to the 70% that doesn't care. Which do you believe will win out? I can guarantee you that it's not the 30%.

Gears, halo were show pieces for Xbox. So wasn't games they partnered with like Riddick, Doom, Elderscrolls, Knights of the old republic, they had many big games, hell even Kameo was a looker when it launched.

They use to be, but there's too much evidence on who truly ran the division. Phil is a nice guy, and has a huge long career as a "manager" figure in Microsoft studios. But he's creativly done nothing and nothing grand has come from his managment of xbox stuidios. If anything compared to Don Mattrick, Don had way more deals with Third party, way more deals with exclusive content that showed off Xbox.

Early days of XBox and 360 were more Don mattrick than Phil if im being honest in terms of large IP.

I see a guy who tries to be the nice guy that gets along with everyone but doesn't have the mindset of a studio head that knows how to manage. Has a enterprise software midnset where you just throw more money/people at a project instead of realizing the concept of said project was never good to begin with.

Those are the hard decisions you have to make in the entertainment industry. I have seen soo many cancelled projects that have never seen the light of day or anyone even knows about.

I love that everyone praises phil as a visionary coming up with something that was already a thing in the industry such as Subscription service specifically for games. That has existed since Sega Channel.

But its again the money behind it that makes the difference from all others. And again it was about throwing money at it. Instead of trying to grow it slowly and get the rest of your internal studios where they needed to be, they could have un-defunct Lion head if they truly had the blessing for funds. Lion head was closed in 2016, phil was appointed in 2017 as CEO. And that change and push was the same time.

They could have course corrected a lot. I would have reached out to Sega, and platinum and restarted the project/contract to get something out of the partnership regardless of where the game project was. TO me that shows you give a shit, and that you care more about the collaboration/relationship. That speaks more, it shows that your not just looking at it as a contract/product relationship.

He closed that shit down.

And now when they were at TGS, kind of were the laughing stock by getting the industries sloppy seconds. Why would any developer in Japan want to do business with a company that recently closed down projects and never green lit new ones?
 

rofif

...owns a 3080...why?
24 Jun 2022
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Well it's not profit so it's hardly any info.
They got my 1$ about 5 times already so that's about sums it up
 

Satoru

Limitless
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20 Jun 2022
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Early days of XBox and 360 were more Don mattrick than Phil if im being honest in terms of large IP.

Early 360 days was Microsoft playing the game and actually putting on effort to elevate the quality of gaming. Unfortunately they shot themselves in the foot with an arrow later in the gen and then, not happy with that, bought a bazooka and shot it at their face with the XBone. I wish we got that Xbox from early 360 days back, where they competed in providing us with better games, not gamepass bullshit.
 

Dick Jones

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5 Jul 2022
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Oh I didn't know you posted on here haha.

It seems like there is some misunderstanding on the forum, leading some to potentially inflate the ARPU by assuming hardly anyone uses the $1 a month deal etc.
The only thing the revenue figure does is show an average of users per month in 2021, just over 16 million. That's all.

Anyone saying that it has any info on discounted $1 upgrades subscribers is wrong by a country mile. It could be 16 million availing of the $1 upgrade or no one availing of the $1 upgrade and the revenue figure would be the exact same.

Some unique takes alright by both side of the gamepass model.
 
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Yurinka

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But the key question is how much they spend with royalties and upfront payments with games for Gamepass in 2021.
Basically there are several related 'costs' (several of them aren't really costs) particular to the Gamepass strategy needed to see the whole picture:
  • Royalties/payments to put 3rd party games there day one and in a way smaller scale, old games
  • Acquisitions to secure 1st party games being there day one
  • Lost game sales of their 1st party games for being there day one
  • Server costs
  • Amount of $1 upgrade or free PC GP month deals whose 'subs' may or may not renew once the deal is over

The only thing the revenue figure does is show an average of users per month in 2021, just over 16 million. That's all.

Anyone saying that it has any info on discounted $1 upgrades subscribers is wrong by a country mile. It could be 16 million availing of the $1 upgrade or no one availing of the $1 upgrade and the revenue figure would be the exact same.

Some unique takes alright by both side of the gamepass model.
As far as I remember there were 25M GP subs at the end of 2021. But we have no info of how many non-GPU Gold subs were, so we can't calculate ARPU.
 

ksdixon

Dixon Cider Ltd.
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This is all moot anyway. If MS ever drop the boot and close the £1/3 year loop, which I think the Family Plan is expressly aimed at, there numbers are gonna drastically go down.

 
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Halo is an easy game to make an example out of. Game was in development hell and even after release it has been a shit show. But they’ve put out plenty of good/great/amazing games on the service, far out numbering Halo. And even Halo only has issues in MP, the campaign was very good to many people.

If Halo is the best example you got, you’re just proving my point.

So the only issue for Halo is the one thing that actually matters for a live-service game? Oof.

Even aside that other games on the service being good doesn't wipe away the issues with what should be Microsoft's marquee 1P title, and it makes you wonder if they saw the writing on the wall WRT the IP and used that as one of the motivating factors in acquiring Zenimax (for iD Software, FPS-wise) and ABK (COD, obviously).

Yeah, I think some time ago MS also shared their quarterly revenue, which was around $3 billion and included hardware sales. I did a rough "napkin" calculation based on expected console sales, and the subscription service revenue was coming to around $1.3 billion.

I'm not sure if this includes XBLG because (1) I don't think XBLG generates much now as a large majority would have converted to GP by now, and (2) this slide explicitly said Gamepass (which was weird, to be frank). But if it's not official than, yes, this would include XBLG + GP.

The figures in the CADE document? I think they are including XBL Gold and "other services" (I can't think of what other gaming services MS has besides GP, GPU and XBL Gold that are paid for), that's what the $2.9 billion is in reference to. But yeah, GP itself seems like realistically either between $1.25 billion - $1.3 billion up to probably $1.5 billion in revenue.

Which again is kind of surprising to me, but it's also WAY off from the ridiculous $4.5 billion/year certain journalists like Destin have tried running with 😂

Gears, halo were show pieces for Xbox. So wasn't games they partnered with like Riddick, Doom, Elderscrolls, Knights of the old republic, they had many big games, hell even Kameo was a looker when it launched.

They use to be, but there's too much evidence on who truly ran the division. Phil is a nice guy, and has a huge long career as a "manager" figure in Microsoft studios. But he's creativly done nothing and nothing grand has come from his managment of xbox stuidios. If anything compared to Don Mattrick, Don had way more deals with Third party, way more deals with exclusive content that showed off Xbox.

Early days of XBox and 360 were more Don mattrick than Phil if im being honest in terms of large IP.

I see a guy who tries to be the nice guy that gets along with everyone but doesn't have the mindset of a studio head that knows how to manage. Has a enterprise software midnset where you just throw more money/people at a project instead of realizing the concept of said project was never good to begin with.

Those are the hard decisions you have to make in the entertainment industry. I have seen soo many cancelled projects that have never seen the light of day or anyone even knows about.

I love that everyone praises phil as a visionary coming up with something that was already a thing in the industry such as Subscription service specifically for games. That has existed since Sega Channel.

But its again the money behind it that makes the difference from all others. And again it was about throwing money at it. Instead of trying to grow it slowly and get the rest of your internal studios where they needed to be, they could have un-defunct Lion head if they truly had the blessing for funds. Lion head was closed in 2016, phil was appointed in 2017 as CEO. And that change and push was the same time.

They could have course corrected a lot. I would have reached out to Sega, and platinum and restarted the project/contract to get something out of the partnership regardless of where the game project was. TO me that shows you give a shit, and that you care more about the collaboration/relationship. That speaks more, it shows that your not just looking at it as a contract/product relationship.

He closed that shit down.

And now when they were at TGS, kind of were the laughing stock by getting the industries sloppy seconds. Why would any developer in Japan want to do business with a company that recently closed down projects and never green lit new ones?

parks-and-rec-that-was-beautiful.gif

Early 360 days was Microsoft playing the game and actually putting on effort to elevate the quality of gaming. Unfortunately they shot themselves in the foot with an arrow later in the gen and then, not happy with that, bought a bazooka and shot it at their face with the XBone. I wish we got that Xbox from early 360 days back, where they competed in providing us with better games, not gamepass bullshit.

I'll never forget seeing VF5, PGR 3, and Gears of War for the first time, downloading the vids as crappy MP4s to watch over and over on my computer at the time. All of those, on the 360. Seeing those games were what convinced me 7th-gen had finally arrived.

MS hasn't left an impression on me in terms of game reveals defining "the generation begins now", since. It's sad, in a way.
 
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Alabtrosmyster

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Haha. I simply believe that when you look at Microsoft and their consoles for all four generations, they did stuff the competition didn't and revolutionized console gaming in one way, shape or form. With regards to Xbox One, as much as everyone was against their direction myself included of always online, 24 hour check ins and trying to push all digital, they ended up being 100% accurate
1 - the og Xbox already offered pretty much all impact they had namely: paid online, it was also the first console to come with an HDD as a standard.... Paid online is a money making scheme that can't seriously be advocated as "good"? Is it? You will go there? Unless you are bill Gates or something I can't see how you put that in the good column.

I guess trophies in the 360 era.

2 - and this is the most important one, still no Sony or MS console has pure always online DRM if you buy your games. Obviously rental services like PSNow (whatever it is now) require timely checks, because the games were never yours to begin with. Their intent with the Xbone was that if you bought a disc you would need to be online for initial activation, then every x amount of time to keep playing. This got them the backlash they deserved, along the 900p games that could not hold their frame rate target (talk about vision, put all your RnD budget in DRM instead of making a decent console).

Obviously nothing they did actually made games better in any way shape or form, they have not made a relevant game since Halo 3 or something.

So please spare us the visionary angle, MS were never inventive.
 

Heisenberg007

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The figures in the CADE document? I think they are including XBL Gold and "other services" (I can't think of what other gaming services MS has besides GP, GPU and XBL Gold that are paid for), that's what the $2.9 billion is in reference to. But yeah, GP itself seems like realistically either between $1.25 billion - $1.3 billion up to probably $1.5 billion in revenue.

Which again is kind of surprising to me, but it's also WAY off from the ridiculous $4.5 billion/year certain journalists like Destin have tried running with 😂
Yeah, still impressive and more than the $750-ish we came up with.

But the problem is that this is nowhere enough to wear the brunt of the entire first-party army of XGS. 30+ studios cannot be sustained on $1.5 billion. Even $5 billion or $10 billion will not be enough.
 

ethomaz

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Yeah, still impressive and more than the $750-ish we came up with.

But the problem is that this is nowhere enough to wear the brunt of the entire first-party army of XGS. 30+ studios cannot be sustained on $1.5 billion. Even $5 billion or $10 billion will not be enough.
Not enough for 30+ AAA studios but thinking outside the box… it is more than enough for 30+ indie studios… so maybe even 30+ AA studios… or a mix of AA and indies.
 
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Yeah, still impressive and more than the $750-ish we came up with.

But the problem is that this is nowhere enough to wear the brunt of the entire first-party army of XGS. 30+ studios cannot be sustained on $1.5 billion. Even $5 billion or $10 billion will not be enough.

Welp that's MS's problem to contend with, expanding their 1P studio capacity so quickly 😂. I'm guessing they have a plan to manage that, but we'll have to wait and see for the actual results.

Not enough for 30+ AAA studios but thinking outside the box… it is more than enough for 30+ indie studios… so maybe even 30+ AA studios… or a mix of AA and indies.

Considering the solidifying rumors of Project Keystone (the Series streaming hub box), and just looking at how the prior Showcases for Xbox have gone, I can definitely see that. There's a lot of AA (Grounded) and indie (Pentiment) type of stuff coming from the 1P.

However the worries for me are they will go for quantity over quality, and it does leave to question how many of these studios they buy, are they actually going to naturally guide and curate to greater ambitions. I mean look at what Sony's done with Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Blue Point and Housemarque; I genuinely believe if those studios were bought by Microsoft, they'd still be making only Crash Bandicoot (or some other type of mascot platformer), R&C (similar), budget remaster of GoldenEye 007 (a waste of BluePoint's talent), or just Resogun updates.

Mind, I wouldn't mind a couple of those things, like a new Crash from ND or a Resogun sequel; the problem is under Microsoft I feel those studios would ONLY be working on those IP, or games of that type of scale, and never grown in ambition to do an Uncharted, or TLOU, or Returnal or Spiderman or Demon's Souls Remake. That's a fundamental difference between Sony and Microsoft IMHO and it's something MS still need to prove to me they can improve on substantially, and that'll take a few years.

I mean if the teams you buy are just going to be doing more of the same they were already doing as a 3P, why acquire them (aside from monetary reasons)?
 

Dr Bass

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Yeah, still impressive and more than the $750-ish we came up with.

But the problem is that this is nowhere enough to wear the brunt of the entire first-party army of XGS. 30+ studios cannot be sustained on $1.5 billion. Even $5 billion or $10 billion will not be enough.
This has been obvious to a lot of people for a long time. Many people do not realize how expensive employees for these studios are. And the costs will never ever go away, and now they don't even want to sell the games.

Also, MS is close to spending 70 billion for GP content.

70. Billion.

At their current rate, they won't even generate that much revenue via GP in, probably, three decades.

And then you have the fact that the whole point of business is to make a profit. It's such an obvious scam that they are subsidizing this entire thing with money from other areas, it should seriously be a source for putting the kibosh on huge deals where they wouldn't be possible with their current operation. Surely there should at least be some kind of multiple.

the whole thing is an exercise in absurdity and corruption, and MS still can't even get push a decent game out the door for whatever reason.
 
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64bitmodels

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If anything compared to Don Mattrick, Don had way more deals with Third party, way more deals with exclusive content that showed off Xbox.

Early days of XBox and 360 were more Don mattrick than Phil if im being honest in terms of large IP.
Don mattrick was also an out of touch idiot who despite all of his exclusive deals nearly killed the brand with gimmicky trash like the kinect and anticonsumer moves that pushed Sony back into the forefront. His idiotic decisions tarnished the reputation of the brand. IDK why you'd ever want him back of all people
 

Papacheeks

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Don mattrick was also an out of touch idiot who despite all of his exclusive deals nearly killed the brand with gimmicky trash like the kinect and anticonsumer moves that pushed Sony back into the forefront. His idiotic decisions tarnished the reputation of the brand. IDK why you'd ever want him back of all people

i'll give you that Mattrick made some bad decisions. He also helped make Xbox more profitable than anything Phil has done, and under his tenure the launch lineup for xbox one being way better than PS4's. Titanfall, Dead Rising 3, Ryse, Forza, MCC, Killer Instinct all in the first 12 months.

What did Xbox series launch with again...........

Playstation had someone similar to Don in the form of Kutaragi with PS3. PS3 almost literally killed the entire company that is Sony. Xbox one's launch was bad no doubt and anti-consumer BS with licensed games/ always online, and a focus of a device that is also a cable box was dumb. But it still was salvagable.

Issue was once Mattrick was made to be the guy to pin it on no one was batting for Xbox. Seriously look at Mattricks tenure, regardless of slip ups, he made xbox the division more money than any other gen.

A lot of long term partnerships with games were because of him.
 

64bitmodels

Member
29 Sep 2022
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I'll give you that Mattrick made some bad decisions. He also helped make Xbox more profitable than anything Phil has done, and under his tenure the launch lineup for xbox one being way better than PS4's. Titanfall, Dead Rising 3, Ryse, Forza, MCC, Killer Instinct all in the first 12 months.
Look those are all cool games, titanfall especially. But dons exclusives are not worth a dead brand.

Playstation had someone similar to Don in the form of Kutaragi with PS3. PS3 almost literally killed the entire company that is Sony. Xbox one's launch was bad no doubt and anti-consumer BS with licensed games/ always online, and a focus of a device that is also a cable box was dumb. But it still was salvagable.
The sheer backlash from gamers would never make it salvageable. No one would buy an Xbox one even if it had the best Halo on planet earth. (Which keep in mind it literally did with MCC) It's like seeing Hitler approach you swearing he'd turn over a new leaf. Whether or not he's right you'd never trust him


Ed boon is the real MVP, he's responsible for the og xbox and its lineup which keep in mind still has games talked about today!

Jet set radio future, Ninja Gaiden, project Gotham racing, Dead or alive, the first 2 halos, and many ps2 titles that are enhanced to the point the ps2 versions are awful like the GTA games and Splinter cell. Man knew what the fuck he was doing
 
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peter42O

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As an Xbox fan, in no way, shape or form would I ever want Don Mattrick to be anywhere close to Microsoft let alone to Xbox. I will easily stay with Phil Spencer by far over Mattrick. Sure, Mattrick did great with exclusives early on with Xbox One and had a better exclusive lineup than PS4 did for the first half of the generation but his direction was beyond horrible. Sacrificing power and memory in the console for Kinect and other gimmicky shit. UGH.

People can bash Spencer all they want but he's literally the reason why Xbox still exists and why Microsoft as a company is investing as heavily as they are. If anything, majority who dislike Spencer is because he took Xbox in a different direction that isn't the traditional model and most just haven't come to terms with it yet but he made the right decisions because why stay with the old traditional business model when it wasn't working and even Xbox fans didn't buy the exclusives and second, if the company as a whole is going the subscription route which is exactly what Microsoft is why would Spencer do the opposite instead of transitioning Xbox into what all the other services Microsoft provides as a company?

Funny thing is that until 2018, I wasn't even a fan of Spencer but seeing what he's done the last 4+ years and being able to convince Nadella to go nuclear in regards to fully being all in with Xbox has made me a huge fan. Hope Spencer stays for a long ass time. 😂
 
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