Nintendo Switch 2 Hardware Speculation

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Aight guys,

Let's start your predictions on what you think will be in the next iteration of Nintendo Switch. State them and then provide a reason why you think such silicon can be in a mobile unit. Hopefully you aren't too crazy with your specs like the next-gen console threads were (HINT, HINT). :p
 
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Bryank75

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Thanks for making this awesome thread.... fertile ground for our imaginations to let loose.

I would love to see a piece of hardware that can hit PS4 game quality at maybe 720p..... I think a good memory bump is really needed.

Most of all I want it to feel even more premium, not as chunky as the Steam Deck, but more use of premium materials would be nice.
 
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Thanks for making this awesome thread.... fertile ground for our imaginations to let loose.

I would love to see a piece of hardware that can hit PS4 game quality at maybe 720p..... I think a good memory bump is really needed.

Most of all I want it to feel even more premium, not as chunky as the Steam Deck, but more use of premium materials would be nice.
I actually like the construction of the Steam Deck. It feels solid and sturdy. The switch is too light and the buttons/joysticks are flimsy to me. But I do agree with the PS4 game quality. It has to match that like the SD does. Another thing I'd want is for backward compatibility with older Switch games, more than one USB port and a HDMI cable output.
 
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Dr Bass

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I just want something that can play Nintendo style games at a decent res and frame rate. I have no hope for something “current” and that’s fine. PS4 level would probably be enough.
 

Darth Vader

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Not too sure about the specs, but if Nintendo is to continue their partnership with Nvidia, they could use something like the Jetson Orin NX APU which is to be released this year, afaik. This would allow them for a machine that could support up to 16GB Ram with an 8-Core CPU and up to 4TFlop GPU (not that that matters much). The TDP is between 10 to 25w on the stock version, which is in the same ballpark as the original switch.

As for additional specs, I think at least 64GB of expandable storage are required, and they should keep the OLED display at 7-inch, but bump it to 1080p. It should have at the very least 8GB of RAM, with 16GB being ideal.

It's imperative to include backwards compatibility - if it can run previous gen games at full 1080p + 1440p in docked mode it would be perfect.
 
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@thicc_girls_are_teh_best - what is your take on how you would design the Switch 2 and still keeping it at $299? You mentioned hardware decompression but I think that would be costly. Also if you are going to pack in GPU equal to Steam Deck then adding that on top of trying to double all hardware capabilities will be really tough. I'm assuming that Switch 2 is already made and has been worked on for years already. I don't see it having the capable IO that PS5 has.
 
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Not too sure about the specs, but if Nintendo is to continue their partnership with Nvidia, they could use something like the Jetson Orin NX APU which is to be released this year, afaik. This would allow them for a machine that could support up to 16GB Ram with an 8-Core CPU and up to 4TFlop GPU (not that that matters much). The TDP is between 10 to 25w on the stock version, which is in the same ballpark as the original switch.

As for additional specs, I think at least 64GB of expandable storage are required, and they should keep the OLED display at 7-inch, but bump it to 1080p. It should have at the very least 8GB of RAM, with 16GB being ideal.

It's imperative to include backwards compatibility - if it can run previous gen games at full 1080p + 1440p in docked mode it would be perfect.
The problem I have with that assumption is trying to predict when Nintendo locked down the hardware spec. We have no idea how long ago they said, "this is the spec and can't change". I propose this for the next-gen of consoles too. Having said that, I usually think on the conservative side of things and anticipate a 1 generation lag behind what is currently out now.
 

Darth Vader

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The problem I have with that assumption is trying to predict when Nintendo locked down the hardware spec. We have no idea how long ago they said, "this is the spec and can't change". I propose this for the next-gen of consoles too. Having said that, I usually think on the conservative side of things and anticipate a 1 generation lag behind what is currently out now.

Well the Orin SOC was announced in 2018, so they should have had it roadmapped for a while. I'd say it's safe to assume that the next Switch, if that's indeed what they go for, will either have an Xavier or Orin SOC.

The Xavier is a bit too old (2019/2020) and fairly low powered. The only choice that would make sense would be the Xavier NX (15W). The T194 is 30w TDP, a bit too much for the switch.
 
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@thicc_girls_are_teh_best - what is your take on how you would design the Switch 2 and still keeping it at $299? You mentioned hardware decompression but I think that would be costly. Also if you are going to pack in GPU equal to Steam Deck then adding that on top of trying to double all hardware capabilities will be really tough. I'm assuming that Switch 2 is already made and has been worked on for years already. I don't see it having the capable IO that PS5 has.

Good question; so the thing about Steam Deck is it's using RDNA 2, which we know doesn't have hardware-accelerated logic like Tensor Cores for ML tasks. If a Switch 2 would be using some Nvidia GPU variant with Tensor Cores in them, they could probably skimp on targeting TF performance exactly in line with Steam Deck, but have comparable performance anyway, as any tasks with image upscaling or ML that on RDNA2 have to be spread to the CUs, could be done by Tensor Cores on a Switch 2. Not that it'd have too many of those cores, but enough for Nintendo's budget.

It doesn't really need the I/O throughput of the PS5 or even Series systems tbh; the idea of a decompression block being there would be so Nintendo could stick to economical forms of media and storage delivery while boosting bandwidth with decompression. You've read some of my other hardware speculation stuff on GAF; there I've been a proponent of 10th-gen Sony & MS systems ditching discs and using cheap, "decent-speed" microSD cards for physical media of retail games. By the time 10th-gen systems are ready, 80 MB/s or so microSD cards at 32 GB or even 64 GB capacities should be doable for like a dollar or less at mass volume, so that's not much in terms of packaging BOM costs for retail games. Then with decompression you can boost those speeds to over 250 MB/s easily.

If Nintendo wants to keep things economical but still not be left behind tech-wise, IMO they're gonna need some decompression I/O block. It'd allow them to stick with slower internal storage, even under 1 GB/s, but have good enough decompression rate for their hardware even with lossless compression. Their decompression I/O wouldn't need to be as robust as Sony's or Microsoft's in terms of the ratio, but they need something.

GPU-wise I think it's more important they have a good mix of general compute, fixed compute (ROPs, TMUs etc.), hardware-ASIC compute (Tensor Cores) and hardware ASIC decompression I/O. Feature-wise they need to at least be somewhere in the ballpark of what Sony and MS are offering, mainly to ensure they can get as much 3P support as possible . If they have all the same features, then it just becomes a matter of scaling things appropriately for Nintendo's hardware. OTOH if they skip on something like decompression I/O subsystem altogether, that's now Nintendo requiring 3Ps to write two different file I/O systems; one for PS5/Xbox Series/PC, and the other for Switch 2. It could upset 3P partners and also hamper their own teams internally WRT game design features in future 1P games.
 
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Good question; so the thing about Steam Deck is it's using RDNA 2, which we know doesn't have hardware-accelerated logic like Tensor Cores for ML tasks. If a Switch 2 would be using some Nvidia GPU variant with Tensor Cores in them, they could probably skimp on targeting TF performance exactly in line with Steam Deck, but have comparable performance anyway, as any tasks with image upscaling or ML that on RDNA2 have to be spread to the CUs, could be done by Tensor Cores on a Switch 2. Not that it'd have too many of those cores, but enough for Nintendo's budget.

It doesn't really need the I/O throughput of the PS5 or even Series systems tbh; the idea of a decompression block being there would be so Nintendo could stick to economical forms of media and storage delivery while boosting bandwidth with decompression. You've read some of my other hardware speculation stuff on GAF; there I've been a proponent of 10th-gen Sony & MS systems ditching discs and using cheap, "decent-speed" microSD cards for physical media of retail games. By the time 10th-gen systems are ready, 80 MB/s or so microSD cards at 32 GB or even 64 GB capacities should be doable for like a dollar or less at mass volume, so that's not much in terms of packaging BOM costs for retail games. Then with decompression you can boost those speeds to over 250 MB/s easily.

If Nintendo wants to keep things economical but still not be left behind tech-wise, IMO they're gonna need some decompression I/O block. It'd allow them to stick with slower internal storage, even under 1 GB/s, but have good enough decompression rate for their hardware even with lossless compression. Their decompression I/O wouldn't need to be as robust as Sony's or Microsoft's in terms of the ratio, but they need something.

GPU-wise I think it's more important they have a good mix of general compute, fixed compute (ROPs, TMUs etc.), hardware-ASIC compute (Tensor Cores) and hardware ASIC decompression I/O. Feature-wise they need to at least be somewhere in the ballpark of what Sony and MS are offering, mainly to ensure they can get as much 3P support as possible . If they have all the same features, then it just becomes a matter of scaling things appropriately for Nintendo's hardware. OTOH if they skip on something like decompression I/O subsystem altogether, that's now Nintendo requiring 3Ps to write two different file I/O systems; one for PS5/Xbox Series/PC, and the other for Switch 2. It could upset 3P partners and also hamper their own teams internally WRT game design features in future 1P games.
So you are basically seeing them shoot for efficient hardware that can handle some of the demands of more bandwidth hungry games today. If you got the IO decompression in there, you don't need to brute force RAM and if you got a chip with hardware tensor cores, you can raise GPU features while maintaining reasonable bandwidth constraints with lower resolution with good upscaling. Sounds very plausible.

Thanks for your thoughts!
 
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So you are basically seeing them shoot for efficient hardware that can handle some of the demands of more bandwidth hungry games today. If you got the IO decompression in there, you don't need to brute force RAM and if you got a chip with hardware tensor cores, you can raise GPU features while maintaining reasonable bandwidth constraints with lower resolution with good upscaling. Sounds very plausible.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Yep, that's the general idea. One of the big questions for Nintendo would be the CPU I guess; you still need some type of processing to run the actual decompression and whatnot, and I don't know if they would dedicate cores on the main CPU for that or build decompression I/O with some ARM cores to throw at the task that way the main CPU isn't burdened with it. Because with the bump up in processing capability they'd need more powerful cores and that is going to hamper how many physical cores they include anyway.

Whatever they do, they need to at least make sure they can reliably offer something like 1080p 60 FPS natively across as many games as possible; upscaling tech works better when there's enough data in the framebuffer to sample from and 720p might be too low-res for a modern display even if the screen is something like 7" - 8". There are low-power, entry-level iGPUs on both AMD and Intel processors these days that can easily offer that type of performance and more, so there should be no excuse for Nintendo to be unable to do the same.

With enough in terms of Tensor Cores (whether that means more cores, or better ones, along with better software APIs for them), on an 8" screen, that can really help with getting 1080p native output res images looking at least around 1440p, or something like a 2K or even 4K device in terms of IQ. But I really think one of the keys is having good enough decompression I/O, because that lets them go a bit softer on other things too like RAM bandwidth while still effectively offering performance in line with or better than the Steam Deck, at a cheaper price, by the time this thing comes out in 2023 (or 2024).

Well the Orin SOC was announced in 2018, so they should have had it roadmapped for a while. I'd say it's safe to assume that the next Switch, if that's indeed what they go for, will either have an Xavier or Orin SOC.

The Xavier is a bit too old (2019/2020) and fairly low powered. The only choice that would make sense would be the Xavier NX (15W). The T194 is 30w TDP, a bit too much for the switch.

I think they can just throttle the chip down to lower the TDP, hopefully not by too much. For Switch 2 I think it'd be imperative that Nintendo design a dock that can actually let the thing run at full TDP if that's the case; they can't be TOO underpowered or that will act as a bottleneck to a lot of 3P partners and them designing ports for the system.

Extra work for reasons that could be easily avoided if Nintendo just ponied up a bit more cash to make it so (and they aren't hurting for money by any means).
 
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The Switch controllers really need to improve.

They are both low quality and terribly uncomfortable IMO.
Yea. thats one of the things I hate about the switch. I literally had to buy a docking station so I can use a regular Xbox-like controller for the games.
 
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The Switch controllers really need to improve.

They are both low quality and terribly uncomfortable IMO.

I haven't had an OG Switch, just Switch Lite. Wish the buttons were a bit bigger. I know they have to be comfortable for kids too, but the buttons are just quite small. And I've never really been a fan of Nintendo's d-pads (at least from using them with systems like N64, Gamecube, Wii, Switch Lite...I generally hear good stuff about SNES's d-pad).
 
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In spec...we can only hope. But I hope it's not so unappealing aesthetically.

Yeah it should definitely be smaller. I don't know how hard it'd be to do, but could Nintendo make a folding-style portable with three components? One with the screen, the middle portion with the processing guts, and the bottom portion with the controls?

So you could even do cool stuff like flip the screen part in horizontal or vertical (tate) mode, perfect for shmups, and you have a bottom portion with enough space for larger buttons so it could feel a bit more like an actual console controller. You could get a lot of comparable processing power and functionality along with a decently large screen, in something that can collapse into a much smaller footprint than the Steam Deck.
 
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Bryank75

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You think the Steam Deck is unappealing visually? I mean it's an all black device, but it's very well crafted and layed out.

I think it looks very utilitarian but I like sleeker devices and it doesn't have an design flair.....

It is probably way more comfortable than Switch to use though.

I'd like a happy balance between design flair, compactness and comfort.
 

DynamiteCop

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I think it looks very utilitarian but I like sleeker devices and it doesn't have an design flair.....

It is probably way more comfortable than Switch to use though.

I'd like a happy balance between design flair, compactness and comfort.
It's incredibly comfortable, it's like holding an actual controller. Also anyone who thinks the button and thumbstick layout would be uncomfortable hasn't used one haha.
 
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