If PC which is a dying platform (well according to some people here) is one of the greatest treats to Playstation than Playstation must already be very weak.
Didn't expect something dying to be a treat to anything.
PlayStation adds PC icon on PS5 trophies lists - via @Zuby_Tech
- Thread starter Jim Ryan
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If PC which is a dying platform (well according to some people here) is one of the greatest treats to Playstation than Playstation must already be very weak.
Didn't expect something dying to be a treat to anything.
Oh? So having all your exclusives cracked and pirated while that platform has brought you nothing bad bad press and internal headaches? Doesn't classify as a threat? When you make your core base disgruntled isn't that a threat to your dominance too?
If your games can be easily played outside of your ecosystem, it's a threat to your main business of selling consoles
Developers are also struggling
PlayStation is dying because they went all in on PC and can't course correct.
You talk a lot about GAAS but people against PC don't care about this. We're talking about SP games.
Are you on Sony board? That would explain why you're pushing them to go on this suicidal path. Yes, Helldivers is very profitable but it's also irrelevant with our worries.
You seem really disconnected about the psychology behind brand loyalty and fidelity. Sony is becoming just another faceless EA or Ubisoft.
Do you actually play games or you just look at numbers? Sony is losing all the prestige associated with their brand. The brand is so toxic right now it's going to affect them way faster than Xbox.
Nobody is against this being on PC. It's not about these games at all. Are you paying attention?
You might want to have a conversation with your cohorts, because many are upset about GaaS as well.
I'm not on Sony's board, but I totally respect a company making moves to remain competitive and grow.
I'm not disconnected, I've called you guys out multiple times. You're fanboys who are butt hurt about Sony SP games being on PC. Whether they are profitable or not whether they have an impact on console sales or not, you guys don't care you'll argue that they'll hurt Sony, but in reality all you're saying is that it hurts your psyches.
You feel betrayed because you felt like you should be rewarded for your brand loyalty.
I've owned every Sony system since the PS1 with the exception of the Vita, but I'm not a fanboy nor would I say I have any brand loyalty.
I had Android phones only for a decade until going to iPhone in 2020.
Just buy the products that you want to buy. It's a plastic box.
You should examine how disconnected you are from reality. Sony's brand is so toxic right now?
- They just released two of their most successful games in their entire history as a company in just the last 6 months.
- Spider-Man 2
- Helldivers 2
- They produced one of the most successful seasons of a TV show within the last 18 months.
- The Last of Us on HBO
- Bungie is about to release Final Shape in less than a month and the reception and interest in it, suggests its going to be extremely successful.
So again, step outside of yourself for like 5 seconds and examine whether your description of reality is accurate. The reality is as a company they're firing on multiple cylinders.
I don't dispute any of this. That said, I have never said Day 1 PC was the only cause for Xbox's decline in console. It started small with things you mentioned above, and grew over time, with new mistakes amplifying the impact of earlier ones.
That's because Microsoft didn't do Day 1 for all games until 2020. They started testing it in 2016 and gradually did it for more games, but it wasn't for the full slate until 2020.
That also coincided with them bringing all their games to Steam IIRC. Sea of Thieves for example wasn't on Steam prior to 2020, it was a Windows/Microsoft Store exclusive on PC up to that point.
If you're just going by measure of time, then yes the Day 1 PC stuff (and prioritizing user experience for PC at the increased expense of the console) did less to hurt Xbox than other stuff by virtue of happening later.
However, the impact perceived by portions of the fanbase probably made it feel significant over time, because it compounded on mistakes made years prior, and the effect of earlier decisions that had years to fester & take root, magnified newer decisions like Day 1 PC.
The general public aren't the ones who buy their new games Day 1 at full price. It's the hardcore & core enthusiasts fans, a subset of whom not being small and likely also have a 2nd core gaming device like a PC. And a subset of that who might be core enthusiasts of the brand but not necessarily enough of Sony 1P games to feel they have to buy them Day 1.
Even if that portion of the market is only 2 or 3 million out of the 100-something normal million, that can have some impacts on latter-period console sales because the way and rate hardcore/core enthusiasts buy hardware and games early on influences a lot how the wider market adopts the platform later on.
2-year stagger windows WILL hurt PlayStation to some degree upon those who are enthusiast enough to play Sony 1P games and other 3P games, but not hardcore enough to feel they "need" to play those games Day 1 if they can wait a bit later. For example, maybe because they have a backlog to work through, or there are 3P games they'd rather buy & play first. That virtue of patience increases the more platforms a person games on, especially if one of those is PC/Steam.
It's just that it won't have AS much an effect as Day 1 would...but there's also no guarantee Sony don't move in that direction. Do I think they should? Absolutely not. But is there a chance they will going forward, even as soon as this year? Yes, there is a chance.
I actually think that they can't. They would have to admit that they have made a massive strategic mistake. It a similar situation with Phil Spencer and Gamepass/PC he went all in on that stuff, he can't never backtrack from them without being fired.
Current Sony leadership have a massive incentive to misrepresent to investor how well their PC ports initiative is doing. When the numbers leaked it painted a dire picture for PC ports of single player games, as if their games didn't appeal at all to the PC audience.
Even if they say they are not releasing their games on PC anymore, it would be met with massive backlash and it would take a long time for people to actually believe ports of PlayStation games were not actually be coming anymore.
Sony best bet to defuse the situation is forcing everyone to use their store, putting Denuvo in all of their single player games and coming out with a fixed minimal windows for PC ports.
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Well they're amid a change of leadership now which would be a perfect time to say "wait hold on, our previous strategy wasn't working". They already did that with the GAAS push and that was far more of an investment than PC
This. It doesn't matter what Sony wants. The investors are in charge. It's one of the reasons they're pushing the PSN into HD2. It's a good metric for the investors. It's bloating numbers. It's why this infinite growth BS never works. It's not possible and it ruins creativity.
Xbox spent like 10 years gaslighting investors and likely even Nadella about how well Xbox/Gamepass were doing and pretty much everybody bought it, specially in the media.
Gamepass numbers were always artificially inflated by people getting it pretty much for free and Xbox numbers were always inflated by mixing it with stuff that had little to do with Xbox. Anyone paying attention to the details could see it, yet even the narrative that Xbox Gamepass was not profitable or sustainable only became acceptable as of late.
Helldivers is an exception. It's literally their first big GAAS success, that's not why people became fans of Playstation. It's also the source of many controversies and weird narratives about consoles dying. It's not all positive.
Bungie is not part of Sony's brand. That's like saying Xbox is so successful look at Call of Duty
TLOU TV show? Fallout TV show is even bigger and more recent. How did that help Xbox? They closed 4 studios from the same company this week. Irrelevant.
You're a businessman, you see numbers and that's it. You don't understand why the Apple or Nintendo brand is so strong. It's just plastic to you.
Sony was supposed to expand beyond the box and reach new customers (the Phil Spencer effect) but PS5 sales actually slowed down dramatically.
The strategy already failed. There was no massive expansion because of PC ports. They are falling behind PS4. These new customers are not there.
And to think that they could have offered everything to the PC audience via cloud and PS+ subscription. They would have had the growth they are looking for without the costs and quality reduction of ports.Helldivers is an exception. It's literally their first big GAAS success, that's not why people became fans of Playstation. It's also the source of many controversies and weird narratives about consoles dying. It's not all positive.
Bungie is not part of Sony's brand. That's like saying Xbox is so successful look at Call of Duty
TLOU TV show? Fallout TV show is even bigger and more recent. How did that help Xbox? They closed 4 studios from the same company this week. Irrelevant.
You're a businessman, you see numbers and that's it. You don't understand why the Apple or Nintendo brand is so strong. It's just plastic to you.
Sony was supposed to expand beyond the box and reach new customers (the Phil Spencer effect) but PS5 sales actually slowed down dramatically.
The strategy already failed. There was no massive expansion because of PC ports. They are falling behind PS4. These new customers are not there.
The key word here is first. It's their first big stab. That being said MLB The Show and GT7 are also GaaS.
The controversies don't matter and the narratives are created by angry sony fanboys.
As for this not being why people became fans of PlayStation. That changes every generation. I became a fan when I saw Battle Arena Toshinden at a mall and thought it looked cool as hell. I became a fan again with FF7 and Metal Gear Solid. And then I became a fan again with the Metal Gear Solid 2 demo and God of War. I became a fan again with Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us. I became a fan because of God of War and Spider-Man.
Bungie is not part of Sony's brand. That's like saying Xbox is so successful look at Call of Duty
Except they absolutely are. That's like saying Insomniac or Naughty Dog isn't a part of the brand. The brand is evolving with time.
Is Fallout bigger? I don't think it is. And it didn't really help Xbox that much because there isn't really a game to profit off of substantially. Fallout 4 is selling for 5 dollars in most cases.
Again, the difference between Microsoft doing something and Sony doing something. It might look the same to people who don't pay attention, but part of having a transmedia strategy is actually having... media available to purchase... at value...
You think that's the case, but it's actually a straw man.
What console in its product life cycle hasn't slowed down dramatically? PS5 is still on pace to be one of the best selling systems of all time...
Again... Helldivers 2.
It's still going to outsell PS4 and what will be your excuse when it does? I'd love to know in advance.
You would think the slowdown would be offset by the millions of new PC customers banging at the gates of Playstation after playing Returnal and Ratchet on Steam. That was the whole point.
Where are they? The PS5 is following a regular trajectory, even with Xbox collapsing.
I guess they are with the billions of customers on Cloud and subscriptions, just waiting to make the jump
On PC? You mean the same people review-bombing the game because they fucking hate Sony and they don't want to create a PSN account?
Threatening do it again for all their games until they erase every trace of their logo on PC? Their friends cancelling their PS+ in support? Very nice growth
I like how you create a straw man argument. When did Sony ever say that releasing PC games would usher these individuals on to console? That was never the point, but it's a convenient straw man for you. Sony has always said releasing games on PC was about improving their margins.
I guess they are with the billions of customers on Cloud and subscriptions, just waiting to make the jump
Cloud is a long term investment, but you being a silly fanboy don't believe in long term investments. If something doesn't give you a return immediately, it's a failure.
On PC? You mean the same people review-bombing the game because they fucking hate Sony and they don't want to create a PSN account?
Threatening do it again for all their games until they erase every trace of their logo on PC? Their friends cancelling their PS+ in support? Very nice growth
Continues to be one of the best selling and most played games on steam... Not sure what to tell you.
Reality isn't matching up with your rhetoric.
PC investment is a long term danger, but you being a silly fanboy don't believe in long term consequences. If something doesn't fail immediately, it's a success.
You want a specific and clear argument? Here it is. Sony botched the PS3 generation HARD. They made every possible mistake they could make while the competitor did almost everything right with its console. Sony was in the hole and destined to lose the generation handily.
You know what dug them out of that hole? Incredible exclusives one after the other that you couldn't get ANYWHERE else. People didn't like the PS3 but they still bought it anyway because they desperately wanted to play Sony's fantastic exclusives. And that's how the PS3 ended up winning the console war against the 360. If those games were available on other platforms this epic comeback would have never happened.
If Sony makes no mistakes in the future but they keep releasing games on PC, their platform will bleed out slowly over time, it won't be a sudden collapse. They'll keep selling less and less consoles each generation so they'll have to go in even harder with PC releases which will accelerate the decline. But if they do make a mistake or if a competitor disrupts the market, they are screwed since they won't be able to stop customers from leaving by making great exclusives.
By making its games available on other platforms Sony basically set its only safety net on fire. They are one mistake away from irrelevance because they dismantled their greatest weapon for a handful of extra sales.
There's nothing else to say. Square Enix already announced they are going multiplat (the FUD worked on them). Sony doesn't have any close partner left.
PC gaming is destroying Playstation. AAA cinematic blockbusters are going to be a thing of the past now. Sad times