PlayStation is laying off around 900 people across the world [Discussion]

[Danja]

My suspicion:

• One of the Horizon Online games has been canned;
• Spider-Man 2 multiplayer component was canned (never announced, we learned from the leaks);
• The Last of Us Online has been canned;
• Twisted Metal has been canned;
• London Studio's game has been canned;

I'm VERY concerned about Bend's future, since they are working in a MP game. Also, it's possible that Sucker Punch's multiplayer game has also been canned, but so far this would be pure speculation.

I feel like Bend's game will probably be of a shared universe thing? Since that was what they originally wanted with Days Gone? I doubt they are working on a full fledge online game though. I hope not.

 

[Danja]

They hired a lot of talent for all their studios highly growing most of them to allow them make more games at the same time. Acquired more super talented dev teams plus support teams that handle some of ther less cool work. Talent that not only gives them extra games, but knowledge and expertise that helps their other teams to improve.

They are also expanding their market in Asia, PC, movies and tv shows, MP, shooters and GaaS (plus in the mid term mobile) to grow their revenue, fanbase, brand awareness and profitability in areas where most of the gaming money and players are and where they still didn't have big presence.

As a result, they have been selling more than ever, making more money than ever, getting more reviews than ever and earning more awards than ever.

They made Nintendo to almost totally leave the home consoles to focus on portables and even made MS bend the knee to go full multiplatform on consoles and pretty likely leave soon the console hardware business (at least manufactured by them, they can keep tthe Xbox label as some sort of MS Steam machines).


The whole VR market keeps growing every year faster than the whole gaming market so it has a promising future. But VR is an industry still in its early adopter stages, still isn't in the point where it goes mainstream so it isn't realistic to sell a ton with a high end device.

But considering that, PSVR has almost the totality of the non standalone (high end horsepower, plugged to PS or PC) VR market. And when also counting the standalone (low end horsepower, they are basically an Android phone) Sony has around a third of the market, with Meta as a clear leader losing many billions because sell their devices at a huge loss.

Sony is happy with PSVR2, which is performing better than PSVR1. Which is what they were aiming for. Their goal with PSVR1 & 2 was to help start building the VR market, taking a leading position, expertise, catalog and userbase to be well positioned once it goes mainstream in the future (this doesn't mean it will replace 2D gaming).


As you know, AAA games are getting too expensive so need more revenue sources to continue being profitable. Even if first party games are selling better than ever in console, need more users and revenue.

That would mean price increases, more GaaS/DLC/MTX, eat console market share (done all three) and to go find more players elsewhere (movies, Asia, PC, mobile) because the console market has the same userbase size since decades ago so the growth is very limited here.

As we see reported by "other software", SIE is making hundreds of millions outside PS per year, and each port only costs them a handful millions and Nixxes made several of them, so they are doing a very successful and profitable job.

Regarding Firesprite, so far they did a good job with Horizon CoM, with the very difficult task of relivering a VR adaptation of a AAA brand raising the bar in VR visuals and PSVR usage to set a new bar from 1st party showcasing PSVR2 possibilities to the other devs. I has been one of the most successful PSVR2 games, but inside the long term bet context I mentioned before.


They need to cut costs, but pretty likely with this 8% layoff will be enough. We have to consider that SIE and this layoff isn't only game dev studios.

SIE has many regional or country specific subsidiaries whose work is mostly related to local marketing, local PR, local CM, local physical sales to retailers, localization and testing. I assume an important part of such layoff will be made there, because it has been the case in many recent layoffs of big game publishers because a lof of the work from these subsidiaries isn't as important as it was in the pre internet era, and in many of them they have many people with great salaries doing mostly nothing productive or profitable, specially when they do in recent years mostly global marketing and PR campaigns.

It has been the case of many of these kind of offices in Spain for other publishers, where they saw cuts or have been shut down in recent few years. The PS Spain offices makes some crazy local marketing things spending a shit ton of money, which I assume will be reduced.


Some of these 1st and 3rd party exclusives will be forever exclusive. While others aren't, timed exclusives still have the marketing impact still have a big impact because gaming is very focused on the most recent/new big thing.

Meaning, things like Final Fantasy VII Remake/Rebirth or in the indies side stuff like Stray, Sifu or Kena get the attention when they are first announced and released making people wanting to play them where they are. Some time later, if released elsewhere they aren't the new great thing so their impact in other platforms isn't the same. Also, these devs also need to release their games in as much possible platforms as they can because they need to have a profitable business.

Same applies for 1st party in PC: they need that extra revenue for profitability. And every year there are more PS exclusives released than PC ports of former exclusives published which means that every year the number of PS exclusive games increases even if they port some of their 1st party games.

They need more revenue to ensure more growth and profits. Because if not you see what happens: having to reduce costs, which partly means people fired, games cancelled or maybe studios shut down.


We saw PC ports of even lower selling games like Rift Apart were very profitable. And they cost only a couple million each so are a very low risk, plus help to grow their userbase, fanbase and brand.

That means they'll continue pushing PC ports because they need less risk and more profitability and PC ports give them exactly that for a very low cost.

Console components and shipping costs keep increasing killing the profits they normally had in the 2nd half of a console lifecycle from hardware. AAA games are getting too expensive and their cost will continue growing, a few big games flopping would really hurt them.

Even if they are improving in console hardware and 1st party sales and achieving record numbers, they need more revenue and profit than the one console gives them, not less. Leaving the off console money, which is their main opportnity, on the table would cause more layoffs, game cancellations and studio closures.

Can you stop parroting the lie VR market is expanding? It's not? And PSVR2 is selling worse than PSVR2. Sony themselves said sales for the device were slower than they expected last December.

PSVR2 is a good device I'm sure if they could go back in time, they'd probably squash it given its not profitable. No wonder they are trying to leverage it to PC audiences now, which should have been a thing from day one.

 

[Gediminas]

Can you stop parroting the lie VR market is expanding? It's not? And PSVR2 is selling worse than PSVR2. Sony themselves said sales for the device were slower than they expected last December.

PSVR2 is a good device I'm sure if they could go back in time, they'd probably squash it given its not profitable. No wonder they are trying to leverage it to PC audiences now, which should have been a thing from day one.

PSVR2 selling worse then PSVR? Can you share legitimate source for that claim?

Or is it just your hating PSVR2 doom and gloom opinion?

 

[Yurinka]

Firesprite was working on a Twisted metal GAAS
London Studio was working on a fantasy co op GAAS
Factions 2, deviation games gaas, and other gaas were cancelled

Pretty much Sony's entire gaas and PC port strategies were objectively massive failures, like we said they would be years ago....

Not true, as far as we know out of the 12 IPs with GaaS that Sony wanted they have published MLB, GT7, Firewall, Helldivers 2 and you could also count Destiny. All of them except Firewall being very successful.

Out of these 12, only TLOU Online and now pretty the London Studio IP (if the studio shuts down and isn't moved to other team) are cancelled.

Their PC ports is being very profitable helping them to generate with 1st party games outside PS hundreds of millions per year when each port only costing them a couple million dollars.

Their first PS+PC GaaS release achieved in a couple weeks the top 20 bigest CCU peak in Steam history, so must be making a ton of money, and since it was a relatively small team that came from AA, also is going to be very profitable.

 

[flaccidsnake]

PSVR2 selling worse then PSVR? Can you share legitimate source for that claim?

Or is it just your hating PSVR2 doom and gloom opinion?

This is one of 2 VR titles featured at the last Playstation Showcase

healthy platform?

 

[anonpuffs]

Unfortunately. That game will destroy Guerrilla and turn them into a live service studio only.

The game will destroy Guerilla because it will flop. No one is asking for a horizon mp gaas.

 

[JAHGamer]

PSVR2 selling worse then PSVR? Can you share legitimate source for that claim?

Or is it just your hating PSVR2 doom and gloom opinion?

he has none, @Danja1187 is the biggest psvr2 hater for unknown reasons, 50% of his posts on the site is just PSVR2 FUD, and it's sad to see since I usually agree with the other 50% of the stuff he says when its not PSVR2 related.

Last sales update we got from PSVR2 was that it was outpacing the PSVR1 in the first 6 weeks, with significantly worse market conditions. $550 and only sold through PS Direct.

And with 6+ GOTY contending exclusives last year, it's safe to say the sales are still better than PSVR1 launch aligned.

Sony themselves said sales for the device were slower than they expected last December.

This isn't true at all, in December, Eric Lempel said PSVR2 sales are "going well", thats it. So why do you have to resort to lies? oh because its pure FUD with no basis in reality.

Their PC ports is being very profitable helping them to generate with 1st party games outside PS hundreds of millions per year when each port only costing them a couple million dollars.

Lol if 10 PC ports combined selling less than what Ragnarok did in 1 day is what you call "very profitable", the it's no wonder why Sony is in deep doodoo.

 

[Gediminas]

The game will destroy Guerilla because it will flop. No one is asking for a horizon mp gaas.

I agree. Especially when they themselves killed off HFW.

 

[historia]

Forum is in its natural habitat.

 

[Zzero]

Guerilla isn't even making that game, isn't it outsourced to a Chinese company?

 

[Danja]

PSVR2 selling worse then PSVR? Can you share legitimate source for that claim?

Or is it just your hating PSVR2 doom and gloom opinion?

It's not hard to tell otherwise they would follow up with a Milestone outside of the first 6 weeks sales release from almost a year ago?

Or we gonna keep ignoring they themselves said sales are slower than they expected? Or Mat Piscatella who said back in December VR market has cratered? We've seen glimpses of sales of it in Europe selling less than 100 - 2000 in some weeks in specific countries.

Please thing ain't selling, saw literal piles of the stuff in more than one best buy over the holiday.

Call it doom and gloom... But in reality that product ain't selling.

 

[Danja]

he has none, @Danja1187 is the biggest psvr2 hater for unknown reasons, 50% of his posts on the site is just PSVR2 FUD, and it's sad to see since I usually agree with the other 50% of the stuff he says when its not PSVR2 related.

Last sales update we got from PSVR2 was that it was outpacing the PSVR1 in the first 6 weeks, with significantly worse market conditions. $550 and only sold through PS Direct.

And with 6+ GOTY contending exclusives last year, it's safe to say the sales are still better than PSVR1 launch aligned.



This isn't true at all, in December, Eric Lempel said PSVR2 sales are "going well", thats it. So why do you have to resort to lies? oh because its pure FUD with no basis in reality.


Lol if 10 PC ports combined selling less than what Ragnarok did in 1 day is what you call "very profitable", the it's no wonder why Sony is in deep doodoo.

Last updated from almost a year ago... Wow I guess the product stopped selling after the first 6 weeks . Well maybe it actually did

Yeah what was Eric suppose to say? PSVR2 isn't selling well? In a Public PR post? In the same interview he said he expected PS5 to sell record amounts that Xmas, did that happen?

I guess you can't read between the lines for PR. They were happy to say Portal exceeded expectations. Where as he said PSVR2 isn't performing as they expected... But keep clinging to the word "well"

 

[Danja]

I'd even try to resell my PSVR2 since I rarely use it, but I doubt anyone would even want it lol.

 

[Cool hand luke]

Games get canned all the time - GAAS titles don't cost much more to start developing than SP games without considering other factors. It's the content creation and maintenance post-release that makes them expensive to develop.

That's all to say that while I'm sure some are gleefully pointing to why betting on GAAS was a bad move, this doesn't prove your point out at all.

Game development timelines were greatly impacted by COVID and "no they weren't" is not an argument I'll entertain.

This is terrible news nonetheless. Sony didn't need to cut 900 jobs because they're still fucking profitable.

 

[Remember_Spinal]

I'd even try to resell my PSVR2 since I rarely use it, but I doubt anyone would even want it lol.

I put mine on ebay for 300 (half price) got no bites in over 3 months so i just took it down lol

 

[Airbus]

I'd even try to resell my PSVR2 since I rarely use it, but I doubt anyone would even want it lol.

Keep it theres a cool psvr2 game coming
( Behemoth)

 

[Danja]

Keep it theres a cool psvr2 game incoming
( Behemoth)

Great!

 

[Gediminas]

It's not hard to tell otherwise they would follow up with a Milestone outside of the first 6 weeks sales release from almost a year ago?

Or we gonna keep ignoring they themselves said sales are slower than they expected? Or Mat Piscatella who said back in December VR market has cratered? We've seen glimpses of sales of it in Europe selling less than 100 - 2000 in some weeks in specific countries.

Please thing ain't selling, saw literal piles of the stuff in more than one best buy over the holiday.

Call it doom and gloom... But in reality that product ain't selling.

So you have no real data except it is selling better than PSVR. Great.

 

[Yurinka]

Can you stop parroting the lie VR market is expanding? It's not?

It isn't a lie, it's a fact. I shown several times here the graphs of the VR gaming revunue from all the main analyst firms. But since you're being rude and unrespectful won't repost them again. Go and google them.

And PSVR2 is selling worse than PSVR2. Sony themselves said sales for the device were slower than they expected last December.

Not true, Sony never said that it's selling worse than PSVR1 (I assume you mean that) or that they are unhappy with it.

When made the fiscal report in May they shown a graph showing that PSVR2 was selling better than PSVR1. Later with the Black Friday season their head of marketing said that they were happy with PSVR2, but that (obviously) their main product and focus for the season was PS5.

In the recent report they said VR isn't growing as they hoped, which could be talking about the VR market and not PSVR2, or the PSVR2 lead distance over PSVR1. Obviously since PS5 didn't perform this quarter as they expected (which doesn't mean it had bad sales, they posted many record numbers), less PS5 than expected means less PSVR2 than expected because it's an accesory.

But as happens with PS5, not meeting their projections for a quarter doesn't imply it's a failure or that is having bad sales.

PSVR2 is a good device I'm sure if they could go back in time, they'd probably squash it given its not profitable. No wonder they are trying to leverage it to PC audiences now, which should have been a thing from day one.

If it wasn't profitable per unit they wouldn't open it to PC to increase it sales, because more sales would mean more loses. They are opening it to PC to make more money.

What is your source to say it isn't profitable?

Horizon online is not developed by ncsoft?

We know Guerrilla is working on an Horizon MP game. We know NC Soft is working on an Horizon game that will be released at least in mobile and PC.

They might be different games (one focused on consoles, the other on mobile), or they might be the same, similar as Guerrilla worked with Firesprite to make Horizon CoM.

 

[Danja]

I put mine on ebay for 300 (half price) got no bites in over 3 months so i just took it down lol

Wow

It's such a shame because it's a great piece of tech but it was such a misfire and bad timing as cost of entry for everything Playstation related is so expensive now. Nobody except a small group is gonna spend 1,000+ for VR entry currently.