PS5 Slim/PS5 mid-gen refresh Rumours and News Round up.

[historia]

PS5 Slim/2000 model is imminent and there is possibly a mid-gen refresh model coming as well. Hope can we have discussion here.
This thread will update oftenly.

PS5 Slim/2000:

SONY TO LAUNCH NEW PLAYSTATION 5 WITH A DETACHABLE DISC DRIVE​

According to Tom Henderson, a well-known gaming journo with insider sources, who previously leaked the Project Q.

The new PS5 Slim model will have attachable disc drive sold separately. The disc drive will be connected with model by a USB-C connector in the back. His sources have confirmed that the prototype of the console has been in the hands of the developers for months. This new 2000 model will certainly be released in 23' as usual

Source

PS5 Mid-gen refresh/Pro model:
Also according to Tom, PS5 Pro is in development, and its release target could be Holiday 24'.

Little is known about its specs, besides from speculation that it can have improved ray-tracing performance based on a patent file by Mark Cerny backin 2021.

Recent Tom Henderson has said there there will be more info about this model. It has been long since then and nothing has surfaced yet.

Probably more waiting I guess.


Anyway, @Kelper_L2, a well-known AMD hardware leaker replies to Tom's tweet, saying implying Viola is a Codename for console hardware, most likely PS5 mid-gen refresh model in development.


Here is all the codenames that Kelper_L2 just dropped out of nowhere months ago. Funny how I noticed how 4 in 5 are names of characters and landmarks from DQ and FF. Probably just a coincidence though.



Anyway hope there are more info out there.

 

[Bryank75]

I think the demand for the disc version is so much higher.

This is a nice way to make things cheaper but the Bluray player HAS to be easily available or it wont be accepted very well.

I'm most excited for the Pro though, wonder if it will also use the same detachable bluray.

 

[flaccidsnake]

I don't think the PS5 modular redesign will be an overhaul. Maybe like 20-30% smaller with the same kind of bulge on the current disc model. Hopefully they finally kill the dinky stand. The disc/no-disc won't be a major user-facing thing either, more of a manufacturing efficiency. Most people won't add the drive if they bought a digital model, though they technically can. The redesign will be much cheaper to produce, allowing for major holiday discounts.

 

[Nhomnhom]

The PS5 slim doesn't excite me but if it boost sales it a nice thing.

PS5 Pro is what I want.

 

[Frozone]

I think designing a Pro is a waste of time and money. I don't think it will be significant enough in power to make a difference with these games + keeping the price down. It also adds more SKUs for developers and it definitely isn't going to be soo different in architecture that it has an extension to the graphics API (which would be more headache for developers).

I personally would rather have Sony just design the PS6 and release it in 2027.

 

[Yurinka]

PS5 Slim/2000 model is imminent

Source? Sounds like 100% bullshit to me

Recent Tom Henderson has said there there will be more info about this model. It has been long since then and nothing has surfaced yet.

A week and a half later I think we can say this was bullshit and that also we can forget a PS5 Pro announcement at least for a while. I don't see why Sony would announce a Pro over a year before its release.

PS5 Mid-gen refresh/Pro model:
Also according to Tom, PS5 Pro is in development, and its release target could be Holiday 24'.

If there's really a Pro coming and is planned to be released in holidays 24 why they would announce it like a year and a half before release? And specially now in the middle of summer when a lot of people is in vacations?

It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[historia]

Source? Sounds like 100% bullshit to me


A week and a half later I think we can say this was bullshit and that also we can forget a PS5 Pro announcement at least for a while. I don't see why Sony would announce a Pro over a year before its release.


If there's really a Pro coming and is planned to be released in holidays 24 why they would announce it like a year and a half before release? And specially now in the middle of summer when a lot of people is in vacations?

It doesn't make sense to me.

I mean like Sony has done Slim model 3 years into generation to save cost, this is nothing new though.

For the mid-gen refresh most info could surfaced through rumours, not something Sony would officially annouce of course. The base spec (36 CUs 8C16T Zen 2) of PS5 got leaked one year prior though. PS4 Neo project was leak in March 16'

 

[Yurinka]

I mean like Sony has done Slim model 3 years into generation to save cost, this is nothing new though.

For the mid-gen refresh most info could surfaced through rumours, not something Sony would officially annouce of course. The base spec (36 CUs 8C16T Zen 2) of PS5 got leaked one year prior though. PS4 Neo project was leak in March 16'

Yes, but unlike in previous generations costs didn't go down over time, they instead went up with the chip shortages and huge inflation (oil/shipping costs) generated by covid. On top of this they already released a cheaper (diskless) SKU at launch.

I think they may cut some production costs specially if replace both SKUs for a single diskless one with an optional detachable disk drive. But I assume the price for consumers will continue being the same, trying to compensate cost rises that shrinked or directly killed any profit per SKU sold they may had.

I may be wrong, but what I mean is that this generation happened unique things that could lead to kill or delay potential slim or pro skus.

Regarding Pro, the current tech allows certain paradigm shifts that will help games looking way, way better but that will require changes of a scale that big that didn't see since the jump form 2D to 3D. And with AAA taking more and more time to be made, that means that we won't see games really taking advantage of current gen hardware until 2024 or 2025. Meaning, they won't need a Pro SKU to have a noticiable jump.

 

[Frozone]

MS isn't even making a mid-gen refresh, so I really don't see the need. Many people haven't really gotten their feet wet with what's already here. I think a lot of us want the Pro because we need to come to grips that the original hardware for these boxes just isn't enough to have the enjoyable gaming that everyone expected.. 4k/60FPS with RT. I seriously doubt a Pro is going to make that come true while staying within the budget of people's purses.

 

[historia]

Yes, but unlike in previous generations costs didn't go down over time, they instead went up with the chip shortages and huge inflation (oil/shipping costs) generated by covid. On top of this they already released a cheaper (diskless) SKU at launch.

I think they may cut some production costs specially if replace both SKUs for a single diskless one with an optional detachable disk drive. But I assume the price for consumers will continue being the same, trying to compensate cost rises that shrinked or directly killed any profit per SKU sold they may had.

I may be wrong, but what I mean is that this generation happened unique things that could lead to kill or delay potential slim or pro skus.

Regarding Pro, the current tech allows certain paradigm shifts that will help games looking way, way better but that will require changes of a scale that big that didn't see since the jump form 2D to 3D. And with AAA taking more and more time to be made, that means that we won't see games really taking advantage of current gen hardware until 2024 or 2025. Meaning, they won't need a Pro SKU to have a noticiable jump.

TSMC has solved their chip shortage since 2022, meaning there probably enough 5nm fab for Slim model proudction. Chip prices has also fallen by 44% in Q4 FY2023 and demands got lowered. So I don't think that is a problem.

For Pro model, I think we will at least see RDNA 4 GPU to market improve Ray Tracing performance and 60fps mode exclusive rather than relying on two different modes.

 

[Yurinka]

TSMC has solved their chip shortage since 2022, meaning there probably enough 5nm fab for Slim model proudction. Chip prices has also fallen by 44% in Q4 FY2023 and demands got lowered. So I don't think that is a problem.

For Pro model, I think we will at least see RDNA 4 GPU to market improve Ray Tracing performance and 60fps mode exclusive rather than relying on two different modes.

I think that to see a PS5 Pro isn't likely, but with RDNA 4 even less. It would be too expensive and too different from PS5.

If there's a Pro SKU and it gives devs more FPS or native resolution will be basically no extra work will fine for them, but don't expect them to put more specific work into a potential PS5 Pro version.

I think they'll save RDNA 4, 5 etc for PS6. PS5 is already too expensive for a console.

 

[historia]

I think that to see a PS5 Pro isn't likely, but with RDNA 4 even less. It would be too expensive and too different from PS5.

If there's a Pro SKU and it gives devs more FPS or native resolution will be basically no extra work will fine for them, but don't expect them to put more specific work into a potential PS5 Pro version.

I think they'll save RDNA 4, 5 etc for PS6. PS5 is already too expensive for a console.

By next gen Sony probably will use a different architecture from Navi entirely, presumably from AMD again.

AMD "promises" that we could see 100% uplift in RDNA 4 from RDNA 3. Appearently Sony uses something as butterfly symmetrical design, 18CU for PS4, 36CU PS4 Pro. The PS5 also has 36CU.
So PS5 Pro could be either at 36CU or 72CU. Personally I think they gonna go with 36 CU at higher clocks, with RDNA 4 at 150% performance uplift per CU compared to RDNA 2. So from 10.3 TFLOPs FP32 to 3x-4x TFLOPs FP32. (These numbers kinda meaningless)

Compared to PS4 to PS4 Pro uplift, which is from GCN 2.0 to GCN 4.0 which is an 60-70% performance uplift, the Pro model of PS5 performance uplift can be guaranteed more than 100%,
the meaningless number are 1.84 TFLOPs FP32 to 4.20 TFLOPs FP32.

That is just pure performance on papers, not to mention the improvement in Ray Tracing.

Also better CPU and more memory because why not. Memory chips is dirt cheap now. 24GB GDDR6X

 

[historia]

Here is how PS4 Pro performed, the performance uplift is only 50-60% because GCN itself is poor architecture.

 

[historia]

I think by going 5nm on the Slim model, they could shrink the die size to 220-240mm, which is around PS4 Slim die size.

The problem is thermal though. PS5 120 using 6nm and 270nm die size reportedly pull 200W at maximum.

PS5 Slim even with 5nm shrink probably gonna be around the size of a PS4 Pro and pull around 150W maximun. I hope that I am wrong though, if they manage to shrink it down to fit PS4 Slim size, it would be a technical marvellous.

 

[ultimateFF]

YES PLS It's about time, make it as small as possible (although no hope for it's size to be as close as PS2 Slim LOL ).

 

[Yurinka]

By next gen Sony probably will use a different architecture from Navi entirely, presumably from AMD again.

AMD "promises" that we could see 100% uplift in RDNA 4 from RDNA 3. Appearently Sony uses something as butterfly symmetrical design, 18CU for PS4, 36CU PS4 Pro. The PS5 also has 36CU.
So PS5 Pro could be either at 36CU or 72CU. Personally I think they gonna go with 36 CU at higher clocks, with RDNA 4 at 150% performance uplift per CU compared to RDNA 2. So from 10.3 TFLOPs FP32 to 3x-4x TFLOPs FP32. (These numbers kinda meaningless)

Compared to PS4 to PS4 Pro uplift, which is from GCN 2.0 to GCN 4.0 which is an 60-70% performance uplift, the Pro model of PS5 performance uplift can be guaranteed more than 100%,
the meaningless number are 1.84 TFLOPs FP32 to 4.20 TFLOPs FP32.

That is just pure performance on papers, not to mention the improvement in Ray Tracing.

Also better CPU and more memory because why not. Memory chips is dirt cheap now. 24GB GDDR6X

If they ever make a Pro version again it will have minor improvements again because they have to keep the prices down because they are targeting the mainstream console market.

 

[ultimateFF]

Pro gonna be $499 anyway let's not kid ourselves. They're gonna keep $399 and $499 price point till the end of gen with Slim and Pro lol.

 

[historia]

If they ever make a Pro version again it will have minor improvements again because they have to keep the prices down because they are targeting the mainstream console market.

I think it most likely priced at 69999円/500 USD without disc drive.

PS5 use GPU equivalent of RX 6700 and R73700X and it costs them around 50 USD loss to produce on units. Disc unit save them 50 USD, so that's 100 USD.

So it naturally PS5 mid-gen refresh will feature Navi 41 36CU that price range, with 1.65TB SSD and 24GB VRAM(both are dirt cheap rn). That leave them with more room to improve CPU, maybe 3D V Cache? That could leave them with no to little deadweight loss on units sold.

That leaves them with PS5 Slim, which my guess will be 40000円/300USD.

 

[ultimateFF]

I think it most likely priced at 69999円/500 USD without disc drive.

PS5 use GPU equivalent of RX 6700 and R73700X and it costs them around 50 USD loss to produce on units. Disc unit save them 50 USD, so that's 100 USD.

So it naturally PS5 mid-gen refresh will feature Navi 41 36CU that price range, with 1.65TB SSD and 24GB VRAM(both are dirt cheap rn). That leave them with more room to improve CPU, maybe 3D V Cache? That could leave them with no to little deadweight loss on units sold.

That leaves them with PS5 Slim, which my guess will be 40000円/300USD.

I don't think we will see $299 price point again. Time is changing, and Sony need all the money they can get for the next phase of console wars, acquisition wars lol .

 

[historia]

I don't think we will see $299 price point again. Time is changing, and Sony need all the money they can get for the next phase of console wars, acquisition wars lol .

Consoles sale is always offset hardware sales to improve software sale.

359 USD Slim bundle with Spiderman 2 on Holiday can vastly improve sale.

MS drop their SeS to 249 USD in the US last year and that costs them 150 dollars and that didn't change the needle. If Sony could lose 10-20 dollars per unit they would be fine with it. Sony's demand always really high.