Research: Toxic Gamers Are Alienating Your Core Demographic: The Business Case for Community Management

Nomen_Nescio

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11 Aug 2023
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This is why the only multiplayer stuff I play is stuff like Deep Rock Galactic, we're all bros sharing some space brews and doing some space mining
Love that game, but it got old for me super fast. I log in occasionally to grind a bit (looking forward to the armor you get for lvl 100), but they seriously need multiple new game modes and objectives. Would not mind paid DLC with actual content not just skins DLCs.
 
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Alabtrosmyster

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If censorship is what you call suppressing hate speech, for example, which is still prevalent in may online shooters, then bring it.
Please enlighten us with a definition that will not overlap with just mean speech, or cannot be used to actually discriminate against people.

I mean, sure there are obvious reasons with actual racial slurs, but again, many of those slurs aren't always used in the same context... Some are even used in a friendly way at time. Addo to this that if we just build a list of "bad words" people will just use other words to mean the same thing and you'll end up with people telling you not to use the master\slave, the word black itself is discriminatory, talking to people about being on time is "whiteness" and countless other examples.

Censorship does not help any cause, if anything it prevents those who are discriminated against from speaking out.
 
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Nimrota

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Tell me you haven't read the study without telling me that. This is not about people purchasing a game and speaking their view on it, but rather about how the community around that game is absolute ass (or can be).
Just take everything you said to the logical conclusion.

1. "This is not about people purchasing a game and speaking their view on it, but rather about how the community around that game" = the community, aka those who have purchased the game.
2. "the data demonstrates a negative link between toxic gaming communities and the bottom line" = if your community is "toxic" you lose money.
3. If you want to make money, force out "toxic" customers. Considering how often "toxic" has been weaponised by developers and the media, not hard to understand that this is just another feather in the cap of enfranchised players/gamers getting shafted so companies can try and reap money from lowest common denominator.

Remember this? Turns out toxicity in the gaming sphere is just inserting real life sensibilities into video games. Cheers, I love censorship! Do it under the guise of being kind to new players and everyone will cheer it on. I guess that's why BG3 doesn't have a breast size slider since that would be toxic masculinity and those gamers need to get forced out of the gaming community, but bear sex is 100% necessary feature (not toxic since it's progressive and wholesome!).
 
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Gamernyc78

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Very subjective nowadays. Seems like everything in this world is toxic nowadays if you don't share the views of a certain caucus or demographic. Good example I've seen ppl get banned on gaming forums and witch hints happen for defending due process and not immediately crucifying a man after that person is being acussed of things towards a woman and being toxic. To then find out the woman was actually the aggressor and was just playing victim to get money on patreon.

Xbox and COD toxicity to the side of course. That's a totally diff beast 😂😂
 
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Darth Vader

I find your lack of faith disturbing
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Please enlighten us with a definition that will not overlap with just mean speech, or cannot be used to actually discriminate against people.

What is mean speech?

I mean, sure there are obvious reasons with actual racial slurs, but again, many of those slurs aren't always used in the same context... Some are even used in a friendly way at time.

You use racial slurs in a friendly way? Maybe you need to reevaluate your vocabulary then. I'm not even part of the woke crowd, but damn, I never considered calling someone, I don't know, the N word, in a friendly way.

Addo to this that if we just build a list of "bad words" people will just use other words to mean the same thing and you'll end up with people telling you not to use the master\slave, the word black itself is discriminatory, talking to people about being on time is "whiteness" and countless other examples.

What you describe is all bullshit from the American crowd. The US represents about 4% of the world's population.

Censorship does not help any cause, if anything it prevents those who are discriminated against from speaking out.

What constitutes censorship? Should we allow, for example, people to advocate for genocide? After all, banning that type of discourse is censorship, therefore it should be bad, right? You need to read some Karl Popper, really, and educate yourself.

1. "This is not about people purchasing a game and speaking their view on it, but rather about how the community around that game" = the community, aka those who have purchased the game.

Thank you for repeating what I said, I wasn't sure I needed a parrot, but apparently I do.

3. If you want to make money, force out "toxic" customers. Considering how often "toxic" has been weaponised by developers and the media, not hard to understand that this is just another feather in the cap of enfranchised players/gamers getting shafted so companies can try and reap money from lowest common denominator.

Have you read the study and the accessory documents? Please do.


Irrelevant.

Cheers, I love censorship! Do it under the guise of being kind to new players and everyone will cheer it on. I guess that's why BG3 doesn't have a breast size slider since that would be toxic masculinity and those gamers need to get forced out of the gaming community, but bear sex is 100% necessary feature (not toxic since it's progressive and wholesome!).

Funny how the only people that feel attacked by these studies are those that are the most intolerant. Why do you have a problem with bear sex in a fantasy game? A game whose rules and lore are based on DnD, which has interspecies sex? Do you have issues with sex between a human and a goblin, or an elf?

I swear the biggest snowflakes are people like yourself.

Good example I've seen ppl get banned on gaming forums and witch hints happen for defending due process and not immediately crucifying a man after that person is being acussed of things towards a woman and being toxic. To then find out the woman was actually the aggressor and was just playing victim to get money on patreon.

Yep, that's definitely a problem. You can thank the US for that one, everything there is taken to extremes whereby even the bloody burden of proof is reversed.
 

Swift_Star

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Funny how the only people that feel attacked by these studies are those that are the most intolerant. Why do you have a problem with bear sex in a fantasy game? A game whose rules and lore are based on DnD, which has interspecies sex? Do you have issues with sex between a human and a goblin, or an elf?
Truer words has never been said, my friend.
 
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Vertigo

Did you show the Darkness what Light can do?
26 Jun 2022
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Very subjective nowadays. Seems like everything in this world is toxic nowadays if you don't share the views of a certain caucus or demographic. Good example I've seen ppl get banned on gaming forums and witch hints happen for defending due process and not immediately crucifying a man after that person is being acussed of things towards a woman and being toxic. To then find out the woman was actually the aggressor and was just playing victim to get money on patreon.

Xbox and COD toxicity to the side of course. That's a totally diff beast 😂😂

Toxicity for CoD is par for the course. It seems logical to expect more aggressive behavior from both teammates and enemies in a competitive game where aggression is a tool.

Having done combat sports for a good chunk of my youth… I mean some guys are not nice 🤣

Players have growing options to distance themselves. I don’t have an issue with a block or mute when I want to.

However I hugely disagree with this player monitoring across social media. There’s plenty of rats out there that will want to sabotage you as well.
 
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Darth Vader

I find your lack of faith disturbing
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Toxicity for CoD is par for the course. It seems logical to expect more aggressive behavior from both teammates and enemies in a competitive game where aggression is a tool.

So you never saw toxicity, but now you say toxicity/aggressive behaviour is expected? Why is this expected? I've competed in swimming, football, futsal, tennis, and never felt the need to be toxic to my team mates and the opponents.

Having done combat sports for a good chunk of my youth… I mean some guys are not nice 🤣

Some people not being nice =/= toxicity is to be expected. There's assholes everywhere.

Players have growing options to distance themselves. I don’t have an issue with a block or mute when I want to.

This is exactly the crux of the issue, which you seem to have missed - players are distancing themselves due to toxicity, causing an issue with the games/community's bottom line (money).

However I hugely disagree with this player monitoring across social media. There’s plenty of rats out there that will want to sabotage you as well.

Who is advocating for monitoring players across social media? From the study:

A strategy for building resilient communities should incorporate intentional game design elements and empowered community management teams within their moderation protocols. For example, designing environments to support or suppress particular in-game behaviors is a common and essential topic in game design, and we can see these community-supporting game systems clearly present in reward systems like the Valor system in League of Legends (Riot) and the Commendation system in Destiny 2 (Bungie). Resources on designing to support community resilience and pro-social player behavior have been developed by work groups such as Polaris and the Fair Play Alliance.

[...]

Toxic gaming spaces have become normalized within gaming cultures. These behaviors not only negatively impact the
mental health of communities, but also negatively impact companies’ bottom line. Proactive moderation, including the development of resilient communities, will be key to keep new generations of gamers engaged. Gaming companies should start experimenting with new design elements, community management techniques, and other forms of proactive moderation if they want to maintain their position as the dominant form of media in the 21st century.
 

Gamernyc78

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Toxicity for CoD is par for the course. It seems logical to expect more aggressive behavior from both teammates and enemies in a competitive game where aggression is a tool.

Having done combat sports for a good chunk of my youth… I mean some guys are not nice 🤣

Players have growing options to distance themselves. I don’t have an issue with a block or mute when I want to.

However I hugely disagree with this player monitoring across social media. There’s plenty of rats out there that will want to sabotage you as well.
Bro for over a decade I've muted everyone on COD lol I've heard it all and I know it's just dicks being dicks and your never going to stop that lol. Ppl start shooting, get aggressive and all types of stuff comes out their mouth without them seeing or knowing you so I never take that personal and now I play muted or teamed up with a crew miced up. Some ppl try to save the whole world and we cant which is why politics is so fucked up with the ultra left nowadays.
 

Nimrota

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Have you read the study and the accessory documents? Please do.


Funny how the only people that feel attacked by these studies are those that are the most intolerant. Why do you have a problem with bear sex in a fantasy game? A game whose rules and lore are based on DnD, which has interspecies sex? Do you have issues with sex between a human and a goblin, or an elf?

I swear the biggest snowflakes are people like yourself.
Your entire reply is missing the point, I can only assume deliberately.

You keep talking about reading the study, but the specifics of the study are irrelevant because the study is simply the justification for businesses to act a certain way. As I said, what is the conclusion of the study? We know it, that toxic fanbases lose businesses revenue. If the study is true, how should people take the findings? Obviously, it is going to be censorship of people who bought the game and are "toxic" because that will make companies more money. It's not hard to understand. The issue is that businesses have used "toxic fans" as a scapegoat for a long time to cover up their own failings, you should be worried about how they'll use this to legitimise doubling down on their behaviour.

As to the BG3 comment, I didn't say anything about having an issue with bear sex, projection from your part. I'm pointing out that a core customization feature, that being the ability to customise the size of a female characters breasts, is not in the game, but other things such as bear sex which are much more niche than character customization are in the game. If you want to be a circumcised or uncircumcised male? Well and good! You want to be a large breasted woman? Not allowed. Funny to use the "rules and lore" comment, because based on BG3 all PCs have the same size breasts! This feature has been attacked for a long time as being an aspect of toxic masculinity, now it's gone, funny how that works.

Also love the Popper comments, as if Popper's ideas are the be all and end all of thinking. If you want to educate yourself, I suggest reading Dewey and Mannheim (critically of course) you'll hopefully be able to understand where the general trend of how these ideas you're promoting end up.
 
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Nimrota

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Thats the thing, they are big hipócrites,you wont see Sony or Nintendo execs being friends with these clowns
Considering that toxic fans are often the ones who are upset at how products turn out, Xbox has the least toxic of all fanbases. They happily accept everything with little backlash.
 
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Very subjective nowadays. Seems like everything in this world is toxic nowadays if you don't share the views of a certain caucus or demographic. Good example I've seen ppl get banned on gaming forums and witch hints happen for defending due process and not immediately crucifying a man after that person is being acussed of things towards a woman and being toxic. To then find out the woman was actually the aggressor and was just playing victim to get money on patreon.

Xbox and COD toxicity to the side of course. That's a totally diff beast 😂😂
I can see people getting lifetime bans in the future for misgendering / incorrect pronoun use 🤣
 

Sircaw

Pro Flounder
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Microsoft cries about the community being Toxic, but they happily foster relations with people like Dealer Gaming and ColtEastwood.

Excuse Me What GIF by Laff
 

Box

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COD fans are what made me stop playing the game, all these sweaty PC nerds using glitches and exploits
 
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Darth Vader

I find your lack of faith disturbing
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You keep talking about reading the study, but the specifics of the study are irrelevant because the study is simply the justification for businesses to act a certain way. As I said, what is the conclusion of the study? We know it, that toxic fanbases lose businesses revenue. If the study is true, how should people take the findings? Obviously, it is going to be censorship of people who bought the game and are "toxic" because that will make companies more money.

"The study doesn't align with my worldview, therefore I will stick my fingers in my ears and ignore it while i shout "lalalalalala""

The research provides actionable items, the supporting studies support the research. You haven't taken 3 seconds to read them, which shows you are not interested in a good-faith argument.

The issue is that businesses have used "toxic fans" as a scapegoat for a long time to cover up their own failings, you should be worried about how they'll use this to legitimise doubling down on their behaviour.

Just because some businesses have done that (and they have), doesn't mean the studies and the research presented are incorrect, or that all businesses have done so.

As to the BG3 comment, I didn't say anything about having an issue with bear sex, projection from your part. I'm pointing out that a core customization feature, that being the ability to customise the size of a female characters breasts, is not in the game, but other things such as bear sex which are much more niche than character customization are in the game. If you want to be a circumcised or uncircumcised male? Well and good! You want to be a large breasted woman? Not allowed. Funny to use the "rules and lore" comment, because based on BG3 all PCs have the same size breasts! This feature has been attacked for a long time as being an aspect of toxic masculinity, now it's gone, funny how that works.

So much to unpack here. First of all, you're assuming there's some ulterior motive to the lack of breast customisation in the game, attributing it to toxic masculinity, yet (to my knowledge at least) this has not been stated / claimed by the developers. Second, you keep on ignoring that the game does not only allow for penis customisation, but also vulva customisation. If this was about "toxic masculinity", for sure they wouldn't allow for different kinds of pussy, right?

You're trying to red herring this whole thing when the actual explanation may be much simpler: Their game engine does not allow for the hundreds / thousands of items and body types to appropriately scale with breast size, and therefore they decided to invest time in other things other than to model every single piece of clothing in the game so that you can fap to bigger boobs. Genital customisation does not impact your armour and clothing, therefore they decided to allow for it. Since this is a fantasy game and they wanted to be more inclusive, and the game includes explicit sex scenes, they decided to allow for female looking characters to have a penis, and vice-versa.

Edit - To add upon the above, I may be wrong and you may be right, but I genuinely think you and others are reading way too much into this because you have this preconceived notion that just because some developers / people are stupid, that everybody must inherently be stupid.

Also love the Popper comments, as if Popper's ideas are the be all and end all of thinking. If you want to educate yourself, I suggest reading Dewey and Mannheim (critically of course) you'll hopefully be able to understand where the general trend of how these ideas you're promoting end up.

They are not, but perhaps studying a bit would go a long way into understanding what's actually happening all around us. Any recommendations on what to read from Dewey and Manhheim?

I can see people getting lifetime bans in the future for misgendering / incorrect pronoun use 🤣

This is an oversimplification of a bigger issue and a conversation that I don't think a lot of people are prepared to have. My 2 cents? It depends on how someone is being misgendered. Misgendering someone because we assign gender characteristics based on what we see or hear? I don't think that should be a problem, nor a bannable offence. Using the incorrect pronouns because we're not used to using whatever pronouns people want (and I'm not entirely in favour of this whole many pronouns thing that has happened recently)? Also not a bannable offence.

Misgendering/using the incorrect pronouns to bully someone? And I mean proper bully? Should be a bannable offence, the same way bullying someone by using any of their physical or mental characteristics should. But I also think there should be a proper warning system before we reach the point of banning people since I believe that most of us, when given the chance, are able to grow the fuck up and not be dickheads.
 
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Nomen_Nescio

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Misgendering/using the incorrect pronouns to bully someone? And I mean proper bully? Should be a bannable offence, the same way bullying someone by using any of their physical or mental characteristics should. But I also think there should be a proper warning system before we reach the point of banning people since I believe that most of us, when given the chance, are able to grow the fuck up and not be dickheads.
So if I want everyone to adddres me as zim/zar. my friend wants to be addressed as zik/zak, my other friend wants to be addresed as cac/cic and my acquaintance wants to be addresed as an attack helicopter (making up pronouns as retards do) and people refuse that, we call it bullying and get them banned? Perfect.
Let me make one thing clear. EVERYONE is allowed to dress/ have genitals/use pronouns on themselves in WHATEVER way they want. No problems. BUT, demanding that everyone acknowledges their pronouns is, in fact bullying. Just because someone is a minority does not mean that they cannot be bullies. So, allow everyone to make decisions that affect THEIR lives, but have no tolerance for the same people to demand everyone bends around them to accomodate their every whim.
 

Darth Vader

I find your lack of faith disturbing
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So if I want everyone to adddres me as zim/zar. my friend wants to be addressed as zik/zak, my other friend wants to be addresed as cac/cic and my acquaintance wants to be addresed as an attack helicopter (making up pronouns as retards do) and people refuse that, we call it bullying and get them banned? Perfect.

This is why it's impossible to have a discussion on this subject: People cling to the extremes and cannot have a mature discussion over it. Also, nice strawman. You also missed the point where I said "and I'm not entirely in favour of this whole many pronouns thing that has happened recently". You're so eager to be offended that you misrepresent what has been said.

Let me make one thing clear. EVERYONE is allowed to dress/ have genitals/use pronouns on themselves in WHATEVER way they want. No problems. BUT, demanding that everyone acknowledges their pronouns is, in fact bullying. Just because someone is a minority does not mean that they cannot be bullies. So, allow everyone to make decisions that affect THEIR lives, but have no tolerance for the same people to demand everyone bends around them to accomodate their every whim.

Another strawman. Where did I say minorities can't be bullies? Anyone can be a bully. Anyone can be a dickhead. A black guy can be racist, a gay woman can be heterophobic, etc. And I'm sorry but no, demanding someone acknowledge a pronoun is not bullying - you can either be the adult and acknowledge it, the same as you acknowledge someone's name, or you don't. There has to be an understanding from the other side as well that if someone makes a mistake is not because they're being malicious, but because we are not used to use some words in a certain context. I have two they/them colleagues that don't throw a hissy fit if I use the wrong pronoun, they know it's a genuine mistake and, like adults, move on.

My main issue with this pronoun thing stems from a) people (mostly Americans) taking it to the extreme of literally coming up with shit that makes no sense and b) people (mostly Americans) thinking all languages have non-gendered pronouns. Dumbfucks that speak languages without non-gendered pronouns then demand the whole fucking language to be changed (like Portuguese).